pizza67

So he started a conversation in person and that went predictably. The way he started it was to to rope me in by saying how he wanted to be a part of kid’s life etc. I suggested he say that to kid.
NH: kid walks away and won’t listen when I talk
me: write kid
NH: I’m blocked on texts
Me: texting within the house has become pathological. Maybe write kid a letter?
NH : I recognize the subtle attempt to blame me for something (HERE IS WHEN I SHOULD HAVE WALKED AWAY ) but blah blah blah marginalized me rejected me when I tried blah blah blah
me: no one should swear at anyone and I can discourage that but I cannot repair the relationships between you and them—
NH: (cutting me off) you do nothing you allow the injustice to keep happening because you have secondary gain since you’re mad at me and you like seeing them be cruel to me!! (Storms off, comes back and again threatens to call DCFS on himself since we see him as an abuser, and involve Big Brothers for kid, unless I can get kid to be “civil” to him)

as you guys predicted, useless to talk to him. And he’s *******

dandylion

Pizza....sometimes situations get so deeply mired in the dysfunction, for so long, that too much water goes under the bridge. Sometimes the dysfunction cannot be reversed or changed without some drastic definitive action. "Nothing changes if nothing changes".

trailmix

I wouldn't suggest him writing a letter to your kids though, it's just texting in another format. If your son/daughter wanted to talk to him they would. Nothing he can say will make one iota of difference. I know it makes it easier to give him a suggestion, but really he is wasting his time (and theirs and yours).

As I mentioned, I have been in this spot, not talking to my Father, in the same house, as a teen and there is no apology nor words that could have made me speak to him. His behaviour in general was the thing (although he had hit me which is why I wasn't talking to him) and he wasn't changing that so what's to be said? I'm sorry I'm an *******, but I will continue to be an *******? Yeah it doesn't really work lol

Eventually, I did start speaking to him again, I don't remember when or why, but it will either pass for your child or it won't, that's up to him/her, not your AH. He doesn't like the way the kid is acting OR feeling, but those are not your AH actions or feelings and he doesn't really have the right to try to change them, especially as he is willing to GIVE nothing. That's one of the center points of this situation, he wants it all and right now but he gives zero. The kids realize this probably, they may not have psychological descriptions for it but they know it doesn't feel good. Someone who continues to take and take is never someone you want to be around. It makes you feel bad and who wants that?

He wants to control you, control everyone. I guarantee you if life at home was all sunshine and flowers and little lambs prancing through the living room, he would find a way to make everyone miserable. It's never enough, nothing is ever enough to fill that void in him.

pizza67

I may be dense, but I’m not sure what you mean.

SparkleKitty

I think dandylion is saying that if you want things to change, YOU will have to be the one to change.

Ariesagain

This is never, ever going to change. You can try to maneuver around that fact—learn some evasion tactics, stop the dialogues a little earlier—but the only way to change this in any real way is to get out of the situation permanently. You’re both stuck in an endless cycle of arguing. He seems to enjoy it. Do you? Hey, there are couples who spend decades in this cycle...they stay together forever each trying to prove they’re right and the spouse is wrong. I know one couple who spent 68 years that way...they finally separated...in Assisted Living.

This is your marriage. It’s not going to get better, it’s probably going to get worse, and out-living him is a long shot.

What do you want to do?

pizza67

So since he couldn’t text me, he told me he’s on his way upstairs so we can “discuss my action plan” to get the kids to be civil to him. My intent was to say that while he can’t assign me homework, I can encourage the kids to avoid swearing and verbal
abuse, but their relationship with him is between him and them. And it is up to them to decide if they want that relationship. He will blow up and insist he’s calling DCFS ON HIMSELF and big brother tomorrow. I will probably sleep downstairs (by choice but he will
demand it)


My questions: what do you think? and how does this work with a minor child? Do I HAVE to facilitate the relationship?

Ariesagain

Do you feel safe? If not, scoop up your kids and get out of there. Regardless, call the DV hotline tomorrow and get a lawyer. Find out where you stand with your children and your home. IIRC, the police have been involved with your husband’s behavior before? I really can’t encourage you enough to call people who have expertise and resources who can help you in real life...we’re just well-meaning strangers on the internet.

And by all means, let him call the authorities on himself. That should go well. 🙄

STAY SAFE.

pizza67

Yes we are physically safe. I weigh more anyway lol. (Napoleon complex)

He just berated me, as is his style of argument, and then I stopped engaging after a little. It’s clear he just wants them to be nice to him since they live here and doesn’t care what happens when they don’t. Me, me, me. I told him only they can decide to talk to him. He kept blaming me for “not doing enough as the mother of the family to facilitate love and forgiveness “. So holy.

pizza67

Yes of course I have to get out of here. Working on it. I have a question: whenever I am not there AH picks fights. Literally just called me at a doctors appt ranting about kid using phone at table. When I was working it happened every time. He’s gonna have youngest part of the time. What can be done until we don’t live together and when he has youngest?

Bekindalways

Heya Pizza, you really are in a wretched situation.

As you seem to be finding out, the less you engage with him the better. Someone has probably suggested the "Grey Rock" technique. You seem in a prime situation to deal with this.

Kudos to you for taking the next right step no matter how teeny: block him, call a lawyer, talk to your counselor, get out of the house, call DV. Please keep at it to the best of your ability. You will make mis-steps and/or be drawn into arguments. It happens just keep moving forward.

Having kids in this situation multiplies the difficulties many times. I hope that eventually you can have court ordered supervision and/or alcohol monitoring when your youngest has time with AH. A lawyer and DV can probably help you with this.

May a zillion angels bombard you and your family!

pizza67

thanks so much! Also does anyone know the terminology for when a narc uses specific laser focused criticism to try to destroy you? Á la: “you’re so conflict avoidant that you let kids do whatever you want because you’re afraid of losing their affection, you’re just a maid to them...” I always feel better when I know what is going on and when others on this board know what I’m talking about. I know ANH doesn’t care, it’s not for him, it’s just for me 😊
also: yea I know that’s just narc BS. Don’t worry.

silentrun

Kafka trap?

That channel I posted before provides a wealth of information for dealing with narcissists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnSiJOOdo30&t=165s

pizza67

Yea, I saw that channel and I meant to thank you because I watched that video and will watch others. I don’t know if I understood Kafka trap very well but I’m not sure what he does is double bind. I’m trying to understand the laser focused tearing down of all aspects of a person: in my case my role as wife, mother, family member to my FOO, even my job.

The video was talking about putting names and categorizing the behaviors giving you power. So I’m trying to claim power by being able to name what he does to me. Because for most of my adult life, when I tried to explain his behavior, even to myself, I’d go mute. I literally couldn’t talk to explain what he did. It took me decades to be able to identify it as narcissistic. That’s why my progress here is so glacial and frustrating to you guys. I was emotionally paralyzed for a long time.

silentrun

You seem to me to be doing exceptionally well. I'm here because I'm still trying to correct behaviors I acquired surviving my childhood. I haven't even been in that situation for 30+ years. You're still living the funhouse. The more you learn about it the more bizarre they look and the less you want to do with them.

silentrun

For anyone who is interested here is a third video from that channel called: letting go of fixing people. The man who makes these is a therapist who had a narcissistic mother. For that reason, he talks a lot about narcissistic abuse. It's also got some good advice for how codies relate to codies and how to better help each other.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdDAHekq9yc&t=1515s

thequest

I think reality is setting him for him. Keep in mind he is still probably fooling a lot of people or thinks he has them fooled to the extent of his issues. Now he won't be able to tell his friends and drinking buddies he spent xmas with his kids. That will really start to ding his contrived image. More lies for him to tell.

pizza67

if he had any. Anyway idk if this should be a QUACKER but he does this pathetic thing where he makes comments to try to point out how unfairly he is treated and what a hypocrite I am...ie...

I send kid a funny video
ANH calls out “what did you just send? I didn’t get it!”
to point out he’s not in the thread....

or this: he hears me telling his son to tell me when he will do his homework, and makes a little snipe like “what was that you were saying to son? That he should tell you when he’s doing his homework”
because he knows how irritating it is and how irritated I get when he asks for an “ETA” for everything. He thinks he can treat me like a parent treats a child?

He is constantly eavesdropping to try to “catch” something. It’s intolerable and pathetic at the same time.

dandylion

pizza.......a parent-child relationship is, among other things, very controlling on the part of the "parent" role.
Any abuser does it because they feel an Entitlement to do it.
Entitlement at baseline.

Bekindalways

Sigh Pizza . . . . I so hope you are taking whatever next teeny step you can to change the things you can change.