Am I doing the right thing?
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Join Date: Nov 2020
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Am I doing the right thing?
Hi everyone, this is my first post but I have been lurking here for a couple weeks. I have a friend who is 4 months sober from abusing alcohol, pot and Xanax. I guess I'm searching for some advice, reassurances and insight. Here's my story....
I worked with my friend years ago when I lived in another state. We were not friends at that time - just work colleagues - and I moved out of that state a year and a half later. Fast forward more than 10 years, he randomly contacted me on social media and we struck up a friendship. It turned flirtatious and he quickly started love bombing me. He was calling and texting me all the time (we live in different states) and after a few weeks I started to suspect that he had a drinking problem. After about 6 weeks of this flirtatious new friendship, he started feeling ill and ended up in the hospital for 5 days I believe due to ulcers from his excessive drinking. The doctor told him he needed to quit, gave him meds and sent him home. He was sober for maybe a couple of weeks and during that time he only texted me and all the flirtation was completely gone as if nothing ever happened. It was confusing to me at the time how someone could be all into me and then seemingly not into me at all with the flip of a dime. When he did call me again, I suspected he was drinking again because of he was slurring his words. He admitted that he had started drinking again and I told him that I suspected he was an alcoholic and he should get help. He admitted that he is an alcoholic and he said he suffers from depression and anxiety and I told him I thought he should seek professional help instead of self medicating through alcohol, pot and Xanax. Unfortunately, he did not seek help.
Shortly after, the pandemic hit and we were both furloughed and in quarantine. We spoke on the phone nearly every day for hours. He had a few emotional breakdowns during those months, admitting that he needed help. I tried to talk him through it. I suggested rehab and I also talked to him about his family being enablers (they would buy him alcohol or drive him to the liquor store). I quickly began to realize that he still wasn't ready though because after each serious talk, he would go right back to his old ways only a few days later. Finally, in early summer, he started to get really ill. He lost a lot of weight and was barely eating. He was in constant stomach pain and even had a seizure. During that time, he also started love bombing me again. Telling me things that I loved hearing, but I knew I could only take with a grain of salt because I'd rather hear those things when he's sober and wasn't going through emotional turmoil. He would tell me often that he would never hurt me, that I'm someone he wants to be with, he loved me, someone he would marry, that I know him better than anyone, etc. Finally, one of his best friends had a heart to heart with him about his drinking and that seemed to make a big impact on him. He went to rehab and was there for 4 weeks.
After he got out of rehab, he stayed with friends for a week and then got into a sober living house. At first, he would still call a couple times a week and text every day, but then the phone calls stopped and then the texting got less and less. I tried hard not to take it personal, but it's difficult going from talking to someone for hours every day to barely communicating at all. My best friend said she thought he and I were codependent and I agree. I started to back off and give him space and allow myself time to adjust to him being sober. He was almost completely opposite of what he was before rehab which was a shock to me. When he was drinking, he was lively, generally happy, flirty, sweet and caring. Sober - he is hardened, cold, distant, extremely selfish, and lacked empathy. About the only thing that stayed the same was his sense of humor. One thing I have come to accept is he is the type of person that needs his needs met first. He's a taker, not a giver. It's like he wants to see what he can "get" from people in his life - whether it's money, stuff or emotional support. For the past two months, he has been slowly ghosting me. The phone calls stopped and the texting has all but gone away. I feel very hurt because I was a good friend to him and supported him and encouraged him. Why would he let go of someone who is supportive of his recovery? I am left to believe that he used me. He needed someone to talk to, laugh with or sometimes flirt with and now that he's sober, he doesn't need me anymore. I have nothing to offer him that he needs I guess.
In October, I found myself growing more and more unhappy with the direction the friendship had taken. With how one-sided it was and how everything seemed to be on his terms. He rarely asked how I was doing and when he did I got the sense that he didn't really care. I have recently decided to stop speaking to him - although I haven't told him that yet - and I deleted him from all my social media because it was painful seeing his posts and pictures. What do I say? How do I handle this? He's been slowly ghosting me for a couple of months, do I even owe him an explanation? Is it normal for a newly sober person to stop caring about the people who were supportive of them? Did he ever care at all or mean anything he said to me or was it just the alcohol talking?
I worked with my friend years ago when I lived in another state. We were not friends at that time - just work colleagues - and I moved out of that state a year and a half later. Fast forward more than 10 years, he randomly contacted me on social media and we struck up a friendship. It turned flirtatious and he quickly started love bombing me. He was calling and texting me all the time (we live in different states) and after a few weeks I started to suspect that he had a drinking problem. After about 6 weeks of this flirtatious new friendship, he started feeling ill and ended up in the hospital for 5 days I believe due to ulcers from his excessive drinking. The doctor told him he needed to quit, gave him meds and sent him home. He was sober for maybe a couple of weeks and during that time he only texted me and all the flirtation was completely gone as if nothing ever happened. It was confusing to me at the time how someone could be all into me and then seemingly not into me at all with the flip of a dime. When he did call me again, I suspected he was drinking again because of he was slurring his words. He admitted that he had started drinking again and I told him that I suspected he was an alcoholic and he should get help. He admitted that he is an alcoholic and he said he suffers from depression and anxiety and I told him I thought he should seek professional help instead of self medicating through alcohol, pot and Xanax. Unfortunately, he did not seek help.
Shortly after, the pandemic hit and we were both furloughed and in quarantine. We spoke on the phone nearly every day for hours. He had a few emotional breakdowns during those months, admitting that he needed help. I tried to talk him through it. I suggested rehab and I also talked to him about his family being enablers (they would buy him alcohol or drive him to the liquor store). I quickly began to realize that he still wasn't ready though because after each serious talk, he would go right back to his old ways only a few days later. Finally, in early summer, he started to get really ill. He lost a lot of weight and was barely eating. He was in constant stomach pain and even had a seizure. During that time, he also started love bombing me again. Telling me things that I loved hearing, but I knew I could only take with a grain of salt because I'd rather hear those things when he's sober and wasn't going through emotional turmoil. He would tell me often that he would never hurt me, that I'm someone he wants to be with, he loved me, someone he would marry, that I know him better than anyone, etc. Finally, one of his best friends had a heart to heart with him about his drinking and that seemed to make a big impact on him. He went to rehab and was there for 4 weeks.
After he got out of rehab, he stayed with friends for a week and then got into a sober living house. At first, he would still call a couple times a week and text every day, but then the phone calls stopped and then the texting got less and less. I tried hard not to take it personal, but it's difficult going from talking to someone for hours every day to barely communicating at all. My best friend said she thought he and I were codependent and I agree. I started to back off and give him space and allow myself time to adjust to him being sober. He was almost completely opposite of what he was before rehab which was a shock to me. When he was drinking, he was lively, generally happy, flirty, sweet and caring. Sober - he is hardened, cold, distant, extremely selfish, and lacked empathy. About the only thing that stayed the same was his sense of humor. One thing I have come to accept is he is the type of person that needs his needs met first. He's a taker, not a giver. It's like he wants to see what he can "get" from people in his life - whether it's money, stuff or emotional support. For the past two months, he has been slowly ghosting me. The phone calls stopped and the texting has all but gone away. I feel very hurt because I was a good friend to him and supported him and encouraged him. Why would he let go of someone who is supportive of his recovery? I am left to believe that he used me. He needed someone to talk to, laugh with or sometimes flirt with and now that he's sober, he doesn't need me anymore. I have nothing to offer him that he needs I guess.
In October, I found myself growing more and more unhappy with the direction the friendship had taken. With how one-sided it was and how everything seemed to be on his terms. He rarely asked how I was doing and when he did I got the sense that he didn't really care. I have recently decided to stop speaking to him - although I haven't told him that yet - and I deleted him from all my social media because it was painful seeing his posts and pictures. What do I say? How do I handle this? He's been slowly ghosting me for a couple of months, do I even owe him an explanation? Is it normal for a newly sober person to stop caring about the people who were supportive of them? Did he ever care at all or mean anything he said to me or was it just the alcohol talking?
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Join Date: Nov 2016
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Originally Posted by CocoBear230 
Is it normal for a newly sober person to stop caring about the people who were supportive of them? Did he ever care at all or mean anything he said to me or was it just the alcohol talking?
You basically had a friendship with an active addict. Alcohol affects the brain, physically affects the brain. The reward system is affected.
So to answer your question, did he ever care at all? Well certainly when he was actively using he appears to have. Not that him using and not make him two different people, he is both when in active addiction. Now the drink is gone, what does that leave? Someone who probably doesn't know themselves very well at all. Addiction is selfish, by its very nature it has to be. The drug is valued above all. This is the way he has been functioning, probably for years.
So yes, in his own way he probably did care for you. Now, who knows, maybe he wants to let all of his former life go and see if he can make it out there without being an alcoholic. Plus, you know this is him when he is sober.
You didn't know when he initially went to the hospital, then didn't drink for a few weeks, that this was him as a sober person. Probably put it down to him recovering from the health problems etc? What it was is a huge waving red flag.
I always think it is polite, when cutting contact with someone to let them know. However, in this case I wouldn't bother because he hasn't shown enough respect to do the same.
I am sorry you have been hurt. I hope you stick around and learn more about addiction (for you, not for him). Lots of support here for you.
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains
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The flirtatiousness and love bombing were as you said "to see what he can get from people".
This is the MO of a narcissist, not that I am diagnosing, but absolutely the personality trait
of a narc. You are knowledgeable enough not to fall for the lies, and so you are not a good
"supply" for him. I would say you are extremely fortunate to be able to stop this unhealthy,
dysfunctional relationship before it goes any further. As a newly sober person, and trying to
walk the road of true recovery, his focus should be on himself to understand why he turns to
substances to cope with life. Only he can answer that, and only when he decides to be
courageous and brutally honest with himself. Most people can't do it.
Kudos to you for being honest with yourself and accepting the reality of the situation
instead of believing you could save/change/ rescue him! And knowing you want someone
who will reciprocate the genuine caring you are capable of sharing!!
This is the MO of a narcissist, not that I am diagnosing, but absolutely the personality trait
of a narc. You are knowledgeable enough not to fall for the lies, and so you are not a good
"supply" for him. I would say you are extremely fortunate to be able to stop this unhealthy,
dysfunctional relationship before it goes any further. As a newly sober person, and trying to
walk the road of true recovery, his focus should be on himself to understand why he turns to
substances to cope with life. Only he can answer that, and only when he decides to be
courageous and brutally honest with himself. Most people can't do it.
Kudos to you for being honest with yourself and accepting the reality of the situation
instead of believing you could save/change/ rescue him! And knowing you want someone
who will reciprocate the genuine caring you are capable of sharing!!
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Coco------I definitely think you are doing the right thing---if you value your own happiness.
For myself------one of the first things that I had to learn when I first began working with alcoholics who were trying to get sober----was this. Do not invest anything into what an intoxicated person is saying.
No matter how nice or sweet or sincere they might sound.
Alcohol distorts the brain function from it's normal. It affects the pleasure and rewards centers in the midbrain. It massively affects the forebrain---the front part right behind the eyes. This is the part of the brain that is called the "executive functions". This is SOOO important, because, this is where judgement and planning and thinking an impulse control, etc. is located.
In addition, it affects the parts of the brain where memory is stored.
When your erstwhile friend was talking on the phone---slurring words, etc----is is quite possible that he doesn't even remember much of what he said to you. that is referred to as being "blackout". It is very very common.
This is the way I look at it, for myself, personally. If a person can't look me straight in the face and be loving and caring, while SOber----then, they are not worth my time.
How I feel about friendships-----To me, friendships---true friendships----they are the only pure relationship---and, they are (must) be completely voluntary on both sides. They are not to be leveraged or manipulated or calculated or conditional. They just voluntarily ARE.
Most of us are fortunate if we have just a few such relationships in our lives.
(I strongly suspect that you wanted more than just friendship out of this person. I think you let yourself be "seduced" by his love ramblings while drunk. I suspect t hat you were very vulnerable to this.
If love words are not followed up by positive behaviors---they will fade away as quickly as dew in the morning sun.
My advice----in voluntary relationships---never, ever, stay with someone who doesn't want to be with you. Never "beg" someone to be with you---what you will get is something that is not love. Who needs that crap!?----lol.
For myself------one of the first things that I had to learn when I first began working with alcoholics who were trying to get sober----was this. Do not invest anything into what an intoxicated person is saying.
No matter how nice or sweet or sincere they might sound.
Alcohol distorts the brain function from it's normal. It affects the pleasure and rewards centers in the midbrain. It massively affects the forebrain---the front part right behind the eyes. This is the part of the brain that is called the "executive functions". This is SOOO important, because, this is where judgement and planning and thinking an impulse control, etc. is located.
In addition, it affects the parts of the brain where memory is stored.
When your erstwhile friend was talking on the phone---slurring words, etc----is is quite possible that he doesn't even remember much of what he said to you. that is referred to as being "blackout". It is very very common.
This is the way I look at it, for myself, personally. If a person can't look me straight in the face and be loving and caring, while SOber----then, they are not worth my time.
How I feel about friendships-----To me, friendships---true friendships----they are the only pure relationship---and, they are (must) be completely voluntary on both sides. They are not to be leveraged or manipulated or calculated or conditional. They just voluntarily ARE.
Most of us are fortunate if we have just a few such relationships in our lives.
(I strongly suspect that you wanted more than just friendship out of this person. I think you let yourself be "seduced" by his love ramblings while drunk. I suspect t hat you were very vulnerable to this.
If love words are not followed up by positive behaviors---they will fade away as quickly as dew in the morning sun.
My advice----in voluntary relationships---never, ever, stay with someone who doesn't want to be with you. Never "beg" someone to be with you---what you will get is something that is not love. Who needs that crap!?----lol.
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Thank you for the responses, this is really helpful. I was feeling a little guilty for wanting to walk away completely. Like I was being a bad friend/person, but I know he isn't capable of giving me what I want.
Very true. I definitely have feelings for him beyond friendship, but I know now that I deserve better.
Yes, there were times when he was sober or more sobered up and his personality was more like it is now (cold, not caring). I guess I was hoping that since it seemed we had grown closer in the months leading up to rehab, that maybe he wouldn't be quite so frosty towards me. I was wrong. I really struggle with what was genuine or not, but I realize I need to focus on how he is towards me now and let go of what was said before.
I have wondered if he is a narc and even told him that - of course he denied it haha
If I do decide to tell him I don't want to continue the friendship, is it wrong to at least let him know that his actions have hurt me? Would that be helpful for him to see what his behavior has done to people who care about him? Or should I just leave it alone?
(I strongly suspect that you wanted more than just friendship out of this person. I think you let yourself be "seduced" by his love ramblings while drunk. I suspect t hat you were very vulnerable to this.]
You didn't know when he initially went to the hospital, then didn't drink for a few weeks, that this was him as a sober person. Probably put it down to him recovering from the health problems etc? What it was is a huge waving red flag.
This is the MO of a narcissist, not that I am diagnosing, but absolutely the personality trait
of a narc.
of a narc.
If I do decide to tell him I don't want to continue the friendship, is it wrong to at least let him know that his actions have hurt me? Would that be helpful for him to see what his behavior has done to people who care about him? Or should I just leave it alone?
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While I believe that my "no contact" decision is for the best, I can't help but feel a bit of anger now. I suppose I'm going through the stages of grief? My pain and hurt is turning into anger and I've been pretty grumpy and unpleasant to be around the past few days. It's just so unfair to be treated this way when I was there for him during quite possibly the worst time of his life and this is the treatment I get? No explanations or goodbyes... Just slowly ghosted me. It makes me feel a little better knowing that this is common behavior for newly sober addicts, but it still doesn't make it right. Anyway, I hope putting my feelings into words here will help release this anger. It's tough losing a friendship when I didn't do anything wrong.
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Posts: 16,246
Cocoabear----I do think that anger is a ;healthier emotion for you to live with, right now---and I absolutely think that you are going through a grief reaction. You wanted something that you had invested your feelings and beliefs in....and, you have been sorely disappointed---that is a loss to you. We all grieve significant losses. That is natural.
It seems that alcoholic types seem to believe that life should center around their needs---and those who tend to have co-dependent tendencies seem to bellieve that life should center around what is fair and reward the for their goodness.
Both beliefs fall short of the true reality of life.
For your side of things---I propose that life is not always "fair". Life happens like it happens and there is much that we have no control over.
This is something that I have learned---when you give anything of yourself--be it material things or emotional things---we need to give it freely---as a "gift". Otherwise, keeping a score of----I gave you this, so you owe me that---is just a kind of manipulation or bargaining.
lol---that is kind of like the girl who thought that the Bull wouldn't gore her, if she went into his meadow---because, after all---she is a vegetarian, and that just wouldn't be fair.
It seems that alcoholic types seem to believe that life should center around their needs---and those who tend to have co-dependent tendencies seem to bellieve that life should center around what is fair and reward the for their goodness.
Both beliefs fall short of the true reality of life.
For your side of things---I propose that life is not always "fair". Life happens like it happens and there is much that we have no control over.
This is something that I have learned---when you give anything of yourself--be it material things or emotional things---we need to give it freely---as a "gift". Otherwise, keeping a score of----I gave you this, so you owe me that---is just a kind of manipulation or bargaining.
lol---that is kind of like the girl who thought that the Bull wouldn't gore her, if she went into his meadow---because, after all---she is a vegetarian, and that just wouldn't be fair.
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I think anger is good, it can propel us forward in a good way. Hold on to it! But only for a while, you don't want to remain there.
It's not fair per-se, but we can't expect reciprocity or thankfulness from people. If there is, well that's great, but it shouldn't be an expectation? Although generally, if a person is that self-centered, why would you want to be around them anyway. People are who they are, can't change that.
I've been at that angry stage and all of it was directed at him. I would think of him as you ass**** and let that feeling move on by. Sometimes I would just flip him off in the general direction of where he lives lol. I was also grateful that I didn't have to listen to him anymore. Thankful that I could just do what I want without him dragging me down (he was not an alcoholic, but very high up on the narcissism scale).
It's not fair per-se, but we can't expect reciprocity or thankfulness from people. If there is, well that's great, but it shouldn't be an expectation? Although generally, if a person is that self-centered, why would you want to be around them anyway. People are who they are, can't change that.
I've been at that angry stage and all of it was directed at him. I would think of him as you ass**** and let that feeling move on by. Sometimes I would just flip him off in the general direction of where he lives lol. I was also grateful that I didn't have to listen to him anymore. Thankful that I could just do what I want without him dragging me down (he was not an alcoholic, but very high up on the narcissism scale).
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