What is and is not okay...
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 22
Back again, just needed somewhere to vent
It’s been a while, things were going well. We reached a common ground (or so I thought). That common ground was that me having a drink on weekend evenings was okay- out of his presence and never in the house. We even took our first long weekend away sans kids- at dinner the first night he insisted I order a drink saying it was a special occasion and it was okay with him. I refused out of respect of not drinking in front of him. He insisted the second night and asked the waiter to bring me something. I thought he was starting to feel more comfortable.
Two weeks later, I come home from my pops house with the kids after having dinner. He says I smell like alcohol. He says he can’t stand it, it triggers him and the fact that I need to drink is worrisome and so inconsiderate of him. I had one glass of Prosecco with my meal since I was driving with the kids home.
I told him that I am confused, it’s okay, it’s not okay, he’s triggered, I ask what he is going to do about it and he says that we are in a partnership and I should not even think of having a drink. As I said in my earlier posts, this is not about the drink for me. I’m feeling lost today. He says I’m not supportive, continues to blame me for sending him away to rehab and that he would not have relapsed if it wasn’t for me. Just needed to get that out. I didn’t cause it, can’t control it or cure it.... but sometimes it stings. I just wish I knew how to respond to him without completely shutting down.
Two weeks later, I come home from my pops house with the kids after having dinner. He says I smell like alcohol. He says he can’t stand it, it triggers him and the fact that I need to drink is worrisome and so inconsiderate of him. I had one glass of Prosecco with my meal since I was driving with the kids home.
I told him that I am confused, it’s okay, it’s not okay, he’s triggered, I ask what he is going to do about it and he says that we are in a partnership and I should not even think of having a drink. As I said in my earlier posts, this is not about the drink for me. I’m feeling lost today. He says I’m not supportive, continues to blame me for sending him away to rehab and that he would not have relapsed if it wasn’t for me. Just needed to get that out. I didn’t cause it, can’t control it or cure it.... but sometimes it stings. I just wish I knew how to respond to him without completely shutting down.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
ducky.....o.k.----here is what I think, from where I sit. I think he is being very unreasonable in his attitude toward you. It seems glaringly obvious to me that he is harboring simmering resentments of you. This is not surprising and so very Not uncommon for alcoholics---alcoholics who are trying to abstain for the sake of someone else (like you) that they are abstaining for---in order to k eep you off their back or to prevent you from leaving the relationship. In other words---not trying to be sober because they decided totally within themselves that they wanted sobriety for their own personal reasons.
If they become sober at the behest of someone else's "nagging" or some kind of insistance, this often becomes a weapon to use against that loved one. Because there is a deep resentment of the person who "took away" their main way of feeling normal and soothed, inside. Their best way of coping with deeply uncomfortable feelings. Even if they may love you---you still became the enemy when you took away their best coping mechanism.
Their resentment becomes their big Blame Maker. You are an easy target to blame for everything. Blame for any relapse---blame for any unhappiness that they may feel about their life---
It is a good, convenient tool, also. Because---they don't have to take responsibility for their own drinking if they can heap it onto Your head!
Please keep this in mind so that you don't take the "bait".
]You ask how to respond to him----here is my suggestion. Your response can be summed up into one compound sentence. "You drink because you are an alcoholic and I refuse to take responsibility for your drinking".
There is no further discussion with him that is needed on your part. At that point you will need to refuse to JADE with him. Very important that you not JADE. (do you know what JADE stands for?)
I think that you are going to have to toughen up your own boundaries, Ms. Ducky. You are going to have to grow some tough kahoonas and a strong backbone. Don't be afraid---but, it probably IS scary, at first. He, for sure, won't like it. But, remember that the reality is that he can get happy in the same pants that he got mad in. Just because He gets mad, the world won't stop spinning on it's axis and the locusts wont destroy the crops.
Ms. Ducky, I suspect that I am far less ladylike than you. In full disclosure, when I have been accused unfairly by a loved one who is trying to manipulate me----I have been known to respond with a simple 3 word sentence----------"Go ********* yourself,".
If they become sober at the behest of someone else's "nagging" or some kind of insistance, this often becomes a weapon to use against that loved one. Because there is a deep resentment of the person who "took away" their main way of feeling normal and soothed, inside. Their best way of coping with deeply uncomfortable feelings. Even if they may love you---you still became the enemy when you took away their best coping mechanism.
Their resentment becomes their big Blame Maker. You are an easy target to blame for everything. Blame for any relapse---blame for any unhappiness that they may feel about their life---
It is a good, convenient tool, also. Because---they don't have to take responsibility for their own drinking if they can heap it onto Your head!
Please keep this in mind so that you don't take the "bait".
]You ask how to respond to him----here is my suggestion. Your response can be summed up into one compound sentence. "You drink because you are an alcoholic and I refuse to take responsibility for your drinking".
There is no further discussion with him that is needed on your part. At that point you will need to refuse to JADE with him. Very important that you not JADE. (do you know what JADE stands for?)
I think that you are going to have to toughen up your own boundaries, Ms. Ducky. You are going to have to grow some tough kahoonas and a strong backbone. Don't be afraid---but, it probably IS scary, at first. He, for sure, won't like it. But, remember that the reality is that he can get happy in the same pants that he got mad in. Just because He gets mad, the world won't stop spinning on it's axis and the locusts wont destroy the crops.
Ms. Ducky, I suspect that I am far less ladylike than you. In full disclosure, when I have been accused unfairly by a loved one who is trying to manipulate me----I have been known to respond with a simple 3 word sentence----------"Go ********* yourself,".
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,637
Hi ducky, glad you posted.
Yes, of course it will sting, you are human and your Husband is saying terrible things to you.
- having a drink on weekend evenings was okay- out of his presence and never in the house. An agreement.
- Have a drink, I insist! (no thanks)
- Have a drink, I insist and I'm ordering you one whether you like it or not
- I agree to you drinking on w/e evenings etc - but now you shouldn't because:
- You smell like alcohol and he can't stand it
- It triggers him
- The fact that you need to drink is worrisome
- You are being inconsiderate
So his solution to YOUR problem(s)?
You should not even think of having a drink.
.
So what does this all mean? It means (and forgive the term for lack of a better one) he is a "dry drunk" - basically an alcoholic with no alcohol. None of this actually has anything to do with you personally, you just get to live with it. He is not in recovery, he's just not drinking at the moment. No personal responsibility, blaming you.
There is nothing you can do about that (yes, the 3 c's). Except try to hold on to your sanity. You may want to start detaching emotionally a bit because you will get hurt over and over otherwise.
Oh and I just read dandylion's response to you, it's so spot on, love the response lol
Yes, of course it will sting, you are human and your Husband is saying terrible things to you.
- having a drink on weekend evenings was okay- out of his presence and never in the house. An agreement.
- Have a drink, I insist! (no thanks)
- Have a drink, I insist and I'm ordering you one whether you like it or not
- I agree to you drinking on w/e evenings etc - but now you shouldn't because:
- You smell like alcohol and he can't stand it
- It triggers him
- The fact that you need to drink is worrisome
- You are being inconsiderate
So his solution to YOUR problem(s)?
You should not even think of having a drink.
.
- You are not supportive
- Blames you for sending him away to rehab
- He would not have relapsed if it wasn’t for you
So what does this all mean? It means (and forgive the term for lack of a better one) he is a "dry drunk" - basically an alcoholic with no alcohol. None of this actually has anything to do with you personally, you just get to live with it. He is not in recovery, he's just not drinking at the moment. No personal responsibility, blaming you.
There is nothing you can do about that (yes, the 3 c's). Except try to hold on to your sanity. You may want to start detaching emotionally a bit because you will get hurt over and over otherwise.
Oh and I just read dandylion's response to you, it's so spot on, love the response lol
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Northwest
Posts: 4,215
Ducky, can I ask you a question? What do you get out of continuing this relationship? Anything? I went back through your threads and it seems like it’s mostly about you working your behind off, both at your job and at home and tiptoeing around his gaslighting and mood swings. The only time you seem to be able to enjoy your life is when you’re out with your friends or hanging out with your father or in the tub...anywhere but with your husband.
For a guy who’s been to rehab five times, he hasn’t absorbed much. Dandylion said it perfectly, but I also see him using his “recovery” as a way to harass you. You’re the reason he relapsed, you owe him affection and sex when HE wants it, you don’t get to have any life outside of his realm, etc. etc. His not drinking is NOT a Get Out of Jail Free card to treat you as miserably as he feels like. But that’s how he using it.
Have you considered a trial separation? A real one, not the two weeks between him moving into sober living and then badgering you into letting him come home when you didn’t really want him there yet.
I’m old. Trust me, life is too short to spend it with someone who makes you miserable.
Sending you a hug.
For a guy who’s been to rehab five times, he hasn’t absorbed much. Dandylion said it perfectly, but I also see him using his “recovery” as a way to harass you. You’re the reason he relapsed, you owe him affection and sex when HE wants it, you don’t get to have any life outside of his realm, etc. etc. His not drinking is NOT a Get Out of Jail Free card to treat you as miserably as he feels like. But that’s how he using it.
Have you considered a trial separation? A real one, not the two weeks between him moving into sober living and then badgering you into letting him come home when you didn’t really want him there yet.
I’m old. Trust me, life is too short to spend it with someone who makes you miserable.
Sending you a hug.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains
Posts: 816
Really think about the last few responses Ducky. You will remain confused and lost
in this relationship because he is not honest or genuine and he blames you whenever
he feels the need to. Like you are not entitled to your own freaking life, but just
a handy scapegoat.
Why does he still think you would accept blame for his drinking? My RAH used to
say that until I mentioned the three C's to him and oh by the way, why would I
put myself through the misery of his drinking years if I could just snap my fingers,
and poof! no more drinking. Nope, not that powerful.
in this relationship because he is not honest or genuine and he blames you whenever
he feels the need to. Like you are not entitled to your own freaking life, but just
a handy scapegoat.
Why does he still think you would accept blame for his drinking? My RAH used to
say that until I mentioned the three C's to him and oh by the way, why would I
put myself through the misery of his drinking years if I could just snap my fingers,
and poof! no more drinking. Nope, not that powerful.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 22
Still here! Thank you 
Im just tired, thinking (over thinking), and just feeling so lost. I keep replaying one conversation in my head I had with him recently... he says if he ever drinks again he won’t make it, why would I even think about taking a drink knowing it will trigger him? If I fought so hard for him to survive why would I do the very thing that could kill him. I see his perspective and then I feel unsupportive and disgusting and horrible. Then I realize that I am not the issue- it’s a vicious cycle that plays back and forth in my mind. It’s exhausting.
Im just tired, thinking (over thinking), and just feeling so lost. I keep replaying one conversation in my head I had with him recently... he says if he ever drinks again he won’t make it, why would I even think about taking a drink knowing it will trigger him? If I fought so hard for him to survive why would I do the very thing that could kill him. I see his perspective and then I feel unsupportive and disgusting and horrible. Then I realize that I am not the issue- it’s a vicious cycle that plays back and forth in my mind. It’s exhausting.
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Northwest
Posts: 4,215
Oy. Isn’t that a big old pile.
This from the same guy who ordered you a drink you said you didn’t want? Who insisted you have one?
The world is full of potential triggers. Is he never going to watch television again? Never walk into a grocery store? Never go to a sporting event? Never even talk to anyone who might even mention consuming alcohol?
This is about him setting you up as the culprit if he does relapse and using his supposed victimhood to coerce you into doing everything his way in the meantime. Quite the drama queen, no?
Hey, call his bluff. Don’t drink, I would bet money he’ll come up with some new way you’re supposedly triggering him. By breathing, for instance.
It all sounds exhausting. Is this really how you want to spend your only and precious life?
This from the same guy who ordered you a drink you said you didn’t want? Who insisted you have one?
The world is full of potential triggers. Is he never going to watch television again? Never walk into a grocery store? Never go to a sporting event? Never even talk to anyone who might even mention consuming alcohol?
This is about him setting you up as the culprit if he does relapse and using his supposed victimhood to coerce you into doing everything his way in the meantime. Quite the drama queen, no?
Hey, call his bluff. Don’t drink, I would bet money he’ll come up with some new way you’re supposedly triggering him. By breathing, for instance.
It all sounds exhausting. Is this really how you want to spend your only and precious life?
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Ho, ducky.....he is so Gooood at what he does. He sets you up for the fall and you bite hard on the bait. He sets you up for the Blame and you grab the blame and run with it, That is exactly why he says the things that he does. Alcoholics, almost universally blame their responsibilities onto others. Why? Because it is so easy to do and works so well on those who bend over backwards to help them through enabling,
The have special antennae for knowing your weak spots and knowing where your hot buttons are---and, they, artfully, lean hard on your hot buttons. Ariesagain is right on the spot.
It is just that you so desperately....desperately....desperately...desper ately....Desperately want him not to drink so bad that you would do almost any thing if you thought it would make that happen.
ducky----please, please, read my post from yesterday---the long one----Does even one word of that make any sense to you?
The have special antennae for knowing your weak spots and knowing where your hot buttons are---and, they, artfully, lean hard on your hot buttons. Ariesagain is right on the spot.
It is just that you so desperately....desperately....desperately...desper ately....Desperately want him not to drink so bad that you would do almost any thing if you thought it would make that happen.
ducky----please, please, read my post from yesterday---the long one----Does even one word of that make any sense to you?
Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: uk
Posts: 2,428
Sorry you are going through this horrible dysfunctional dance. I recognise it from my life.
Whatever you do or say will be used to enable his drinking. Fact!
You will then be left with an exhausted, spinning mind trying to work out how things got to where they are.
Whatever you do or say will be used to enable his drinking. Fact!
You will then be left with an exhausted, spinning mind trying to work out how things got to where they are.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 22
I am just so filled with gratitude for all of your responses. You always give me so much to think about and sometimes I need a day or two to absorb it all. Thank you all for always being here- I think of you as my angels and so glad I found this space. I am going to stick to my guns on this one and do what I want, because I’m important too. I’ve spent far too much time focused on him.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 229
Originally Posted by ducky12 
Hi all,
My husband is reacclimating back home from sober living. Last weekend, I met a friend for dinner while he stayed home- we hadn’t seen each other in a while and it was the only weekend that worked for me and my friend. My friend offered me a glass of wine while at her house which I accepted. When I returned home he asked if I had a glass of wine. I replied yes. He has been extremely upset at me since. I committed to him that when he returns it will be to a sober home. That I would never drink in front of him such as long as needed or ever. While he has been acclimating back it has been a sober home and I’ve never had a drink in front of him. I guess I am looking for advice here, if I have and enjoy a cocktail with friends or co-workers once and a while, outside of my house and no where near him, is that okay? I want to know the boundaries and ensure I do nothing to impact his recovery. He is now saying that I am the one with the drinking problem (insists that I fess up to this for all the reasons he believes fit- which is far from the truth), and that if I need to even ask whether or not when or if I can drink- makes it more clear to him that I have a problem. I want nothing more than his continued sobriety, I have done nothing but support and champion him, but I will not admit to having a problem I don’t have. I just want to know the boundaries but if I can’t talk about them and he is not clear, then I don’t know. Desperately trying to be supportive, maybe I messed up? Am I thinking about this wrong?
My husband is reacclimating back home from sober living. Last weekend, I met a friend for dinner while he stayed home- we hadn’t seen each other in a while and it was the only weekend that worked for me and my friend. My friend offered me a glass of wine while at her house which I accepted. When I returned home he asked if I had a glass of wine. I replied yes. He has been extremely upset at me since. I committed to him that when he returns it will be to a sober home. That I would never drink in front of him such as long as needed or ever. While he has been acclimating back it has been a sober home and I’ve never had a drink in front of him. I guess I am looking for advice here, if I have and enjoy a cocktail with friends or co-workers once and a while, outside of my house and no where near him, is that okay? I want to know the boundaries and ensure I do nothing to impact his recovery. He is now saying that I am the one with the drinking problem (insists that I fess up to this for all the reasons he believes fit- which is far from the truth), and that if I need to even ask whether or not when or if I can drink- makes it more clear to him that I have a problem. I want nothing more than his continued sobriety, I have done nothing but support and champion him, but I will not admit to having a problem I don’t have. I just want to know the boundaries but if I can’t talk about them and he is not clear, then I don’t know. Desperately trying to be supportive, maybe I messed up? Am I thinking about this wrong?
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
