mylifeismine

"He laid into me all night trying to get me to admit to something that was untrue. ......."

Ducky, this is not off base (your word) this is awful emotional abuse and has nothing to do
with an alcoholic in recovery. Many,many times mental illness is masked by the alcohol
consumption. This is not good for you or your physical and emotional health. It will
and IS taking a toll, whether you realize it or not. I didn't realize the toll on my
physical and mental health until it was almost too late.

This is emotional battery, a form of torture, like when military tries to get a confession.
It may seem like I am exaggerating, but you are being harassed, belittled, accused unfairly,
gas lighted, not believed, etc. You have no peace or feeling of safety in your home.

What support do you have? Alanon? A counselor? What about your needs and your right
to a safe and peaceful home???

ducky12

Back again. I have been going to my meetings regularly and speaking with my therapist. I’m tired. I am tired of being accused of hiding anything from him or being accused of having a problem. So tired and frustrated, that after a 14 hour day of home schooling and working full time, I went out and bought myself a small one glass type, bottle of wine to sip in the bathtub away from him, after an exhausting day. I think this was my subconscious saying “if he is going to continue to accuse you of something, what’s the point.” I made a commitment to have a sober home but every night since he has returned he has accused me and beraded me. There has not been a drop in the house. That is until the other night where I was just completely worn down and wanted to relax, alone, without someone constantly yelling at me. I know I should have done it, and I’m sorry that I did but I am just craving some level of normalcy. He of course found out and now says he doesn’t know if he will ever be able to trust me. I find this interesting given over the past several years he has cheated on me, made unwanted advances on me while I was sleeping and he was black out drunk, crashed our car during a bender, left pills around the house where the kids could easily take them and much more.....and I have been on a journey to forgive and trust that he is working to overcome his disease. So after all that, he can’t trust me and is not sure if he ever will be able to.... maybe I’ve been to forgiving or just plain stupid. He “was” a raging alcoholic, and clearly wants to place that label on me as well to make him feel better, because he can’t fathom that people can have a drink normally once in a while without being an alcoholic or headed down a slippery slope that will lead them to where he landed at rock bottom. Maybe I’m in the wrong here and thinking about this in the wrong way. Asking for perspectives.

SmallButMighty

I understand how you must be feeling at the end of your rope.

I don't think you having a glass of wine while trying to relax from a hellish day is wrong.

I don't think it's fair your husband has been berating you for things you haven't done... until you did. Even then, you having a drink isn't his business unless you are shoving it in his face, which you were not. The problem arises because you said you wouldn't have alcohol in the house then you did. I completely understand how you felt, like, " if I'm going to be constantly accused of it why the heck shouldn't I"... but that kind of tit for tat thinking just created another problem for you in the long run, which is unfortunate.

Your husband sounds like he is really struggling with his recovery, because the way he is talking to you and accusing you of things is not healthy at all. Is he getting any support at all? He needs help.

There is definitely a communication problem between you and your husband. He doesn't sound like a reasonable man right now. That has to be very frustrating for you. Dry drunks are just as bad and active drunks in my opinion. My AXH was actually easier to deal with when he WAS drinking rather than when he was white-knuckling sobriety and pissed off about it.

I would suggest being honest though. You are an adult, it's your home, if you want an occasional wine while you soak after a hard day you should be "allowed" to do that without having to lie or hide it. Being honest and discreet seems like a fair compromise to me, but your husband doesn't seem to be in a fair and compromising mood these days. Only you can decide how much you can stand and how long you are willing to live in that type of atmosphere. I'm glad you are still getting support for yourself through meetings and therapist. It would drive me insane having someone else dictate to me how I should live my life. That's really unfair to you.

Whether you drink at home, whether you drink away from home, whether you drink once a year, whether you become a complete teatottler , whether you become a raging alcoholic... none of that has anything to do with whether or not your husband maintains his sobriety. Was he always this controlling or is this a new development when he quit drinking?

dandylion

ducky----you are not thinking about this in the "wrong way". He is being abusive to you. Verbal abuse and psychological abuse can leave scars and damage as much as physical abuse.
Being sober does not give a person the right to abuse another person. It is wrong, what he is doing. You don't deserve this.
It reminds me of the guy who has a rough day at the office, and comes home and kicks the dog.
If it is wrong to abuse a dog--then, it is wrong to abuse and mistreat you, also!
There is nothing in AA or therapy that advocates the right to mistreat others and take their anger out on them. It makes me wonder how much he is really working a Program?
I have been around a lot--a lot---of acoholics----as I was the medical director of an alcohlism program for a large health care organization for several years. to be honest---he looks like a guy who is queing up of a relapse around the corner. I could br wrong, of course, but that is what my senses are telling me, from what you are sharing. Sometimes, it starts with an "excuse" to drink---like blaming the wife for having one glass on wine----saying that his lack of trust for her CAUSED him to drink. Of course, that is just typical alcoholic BS--to blame others.
He is deflecting allover the place----trying to shine the light on you to take it off of himself. This is a common technique---taken straight from the alcoholic's handbook---lol.

The main thing that I see for you---big stumbling block---is that you are doubting your own self, so much. Of course, living with an accusatory or verbally abusive person does wear down one's self esteem---and, is extremely draining. It is so draining that it, eventually, affects one's mental and physical health.

I hope that you stick close to your own support because you need it so badly.

I think you could use some time away from him. This sounds unsustainable, over the long haul. Have you talked with your therapist about what you will do, should he relapse---or if you reach your breaking point?

SparkleKitty

I can't reiterate enough what dandylion wrote above. When you are in the middle of this kind of abusive situation, you can't really get perspective on how bad it really is, and how much you don't deserve it. On top of that, if you are walking on eggshells all the time, you're going to get cut.

trailmix

I think a couple of things might be helpful. Google "Dry drunk" and "alcohol white knuckling it" and see what you find. This is not for him, this is for you, so you can get a really clear picture of what's going on here (which has nothing to do with you).

Secondly, maybe ask yourself, why do I stay here and be really really honest with yourself. Fear? Lack of self-worth? Financial? Obligation? Guilt? None of these are good reasons to stay with a person that is making your life miserable. Once you identify your reasons/fears you can get help with that.

If you need any proof that while he might be attending a program he hasn't bought in to it yet, this is it. He's not in recovery, he's just not drinking. He is angry and frustrated by that. You are the recipient of the anger and frustration, the punching bag.

Maybe he could return to sober living for a while? If that's not an option, it would be so very good for you if you could exit the house for a while, air bnb? friends, family, hotel?

ducky12

Thank you, I feel a bit more sane after reading your responses. Last night he yelled in the kids face so badly and harshly they cried for 15 minutes. They were simply coming to check on me because he was yelling. Later in the evening they asked if “mommy was okay” and said “daddy is too tough to us too.” They are old enough to understand something isn’t right and are feeling it. He won’t leave the house, I’m the breadwinner and child care simultaneously so to up and walk out will be very hard. I also don’t want to rip the kids from the only home they’ve known. He is home now but won’t speak to me. He did text me that he made a marriage counseling appointment later this week, without my consent. I’ve spent so much money on this marriage counselor and can’t afford anymore. I told him I would think about going, he said he was going anyway, regardless if I participate. I was clear that these sessions should be agreed upon jointly before being made, especially since he hasn’t paid a dime to contribute to them but I am out of pocket thousands. I spent every waking moment with the kids since they opened their eyes this morning.he hasn’t even interacted with them once. He so desperately wanted to come home to be a family- but he was gone all day without even a message to wonder if we were okay or what we were doing.

SmallButMighty

This is so egregiously abusive. I am so sorry that you and your children are living like this.

I understand this is the only home your children have ever known but if this is how they get treated... if they aren't even "just" scared for themselves... but also for their mommy (how terrifying)... this isn't a home that feels safe to them, and a home should feel safe. This is heartbreaking.

That he isn't willing to leave, while he screeches at everybody and blames you for his B.S. is over the top ducky. This is not safe, on so many levels. If there is anywhere you can go, even for a few days, I hope you will consider that.

trailmix

That's because his thoughts are for himself, not you or your children.

So you are being held hostage. There is actually a saying that Alcoholics don't have relationships, they take hostages. Not true in all cases, of course.

You are the breadwinner and take care of the children? If so, that is a much better position to be in.

I have a few observations to make, but I hope you will remember this, Actions not words.

He wanted to come home because who the heck wants to live in a sober living facility? Well someone in recovery might, because they would have a commitment and realize this was helping them. Home is much more comfortable! Food, shelter, familiar people (that he can yell at). The words were I desperately want to be a family, the actions do not support that, however it gave you hope. "He really wants this, look he is devastated by what he has done! How can I leave him out there alone"? So you buy in (because you had hope, that's normal) but he has opted out. Lots of nice words, no action. I think you can safely dismiss those words now.

If you have never had an alcoholic parent, when you see him scream at the children like that and frighten them so they cry for 15 minutes, you might think, oh they got scared but they know that they are really safe, he wouldn't actually "hurt" them. That's simply not true.

They do know, you're right. They may not actually know that something isn't "right". This is all they have ever known, they have nothing to compare it to. This is Dad, he yells and screams at Mom and she cries. Then he yells at us. They know it's bad, because it feels bad, but to them it is normal and therein lies the even bigger problem.

When they go out in to the world as adults, they will know, by then (hopefully) that it is not normal behaviour in a relationship, any relationship, friend or romantic, however, that's not the example they have lived and they will probably have a huge capacity for dysfunction. They may also have put up defenses and barriers to pain from other people (because they had to, to cope). Imagine that there are two people in the world the should love and care for you, look after you and protect you and one of them treats you like you are not important.

I'm not trying to make this scary and I'm sorry if this is too blunt, I just know that you know this is so wrong for them but may not realize the full implications of what's happening to them.

I would cancel his counselling appt and make one for the kids instead. Either way I would cancel it. Marriage counselling is a bit of a waste if the other person doesn't want to participate. There are plenty of free support groups he could attend, including AA every single day of the year.

dandylion

ducky----I think that it is to the point that you would be well advised to contact your local domestic abuse center and talk confidentially to one of their workers. It would be completely anonymous and your husband need never know about it. You certainly qualify as he is being abusive and mistreating you AND the children. This mistreatment will affect the children even more than you--as you are an adult with more developed coping skills.
Don;t let the term "domestic abuse or domestic violence" scare you---as there are many different types of abuse than just physical. The workers in the centers are very familiar with situations like yours, as they see it all of the time. They exist only to help you in any way that they can. They are very kind and understanding and not judgemental, at all. They only want to help. Anything from just talking, to giving many kinds of assistance----they can, also, offer a place for you and the kids to stay in a safe and peaceful environment if that is what is needed. They can also offer legal counseling or refer you to a legal specialist if you need that.
Do niot just assume that nothing can be done--just because you don't know of anything yourself. Quite often, people make this mistake in their thinking. I say to reach out to those who are prepared to help you and have resources that you may not be aware of.

I think that thinking about this being the only home that the kids have ever known is somewhat misdirected thinking---coming from your own feelings more than theirs. It is more important for children to feel safe in the present than whatever roof they are living under. If the home they have known is a frightening one---that is not good. Children are more adaptable than one might think---as long as they have one safe and dependable adult with them.
I think it would be helpful to think in terms of getting some respite for you and the kids for the immediate future---to give you some time and space to make more long term planning (with help).

You are not alone---and there are options available...you need to believe that......

SparkleKitty

I only knew one home growing up, from the day I was born to when I left for college at 18, and then for a few months after I graduated before I moved halfway across the country. It was a home filled with tension, anger, secrets, screaming, and emotional abuse. Other than that, it was just a house.

We sold that house a couple of years ago after my alcoholic mother passed away. I was there for a few hours after the service with my siblings and their families, and after we had dinner my husband and I got in our rental car to head back to our hotel. I realized as we were pulling down the driveway that I would likely never see the house again, had no reason to ever return to the town I grew up in. I took a few hasty pictures in the dark of the exterior, front door, etc., and my husband asked if I wanted to stay and take more. But I didn't. It was just a house. Sure, my father designed it and had it built, and it wasn't like any other house in the neighborhood or anywhere, really...but it was just a house. In my mind, it was more like the scene of the crime. I felt literally nothing at the thought of never going back.

It seems that your husband isn't good for your family right now. It's not to say he never will be, but the damage he can do right now, while he is in this state of being, can be formidable. We grew up thinking getting screamed at was normal, that being ignored was normal, that tiptoeing around the angry person in the house was what you were supposed to do. Meanwhile, our senses of self were being stripped away or worse, never allowed to form in the first place. We grew up thinking we had to manage everyone else's feelings and ignoring our own. We grew up unprepared for healthy relationships ourselves, and so we didn't know what to do when we were in one, and we usually botched it up with welf-sabotage. We felt we didn't deserve a healthy relationship with people who took responsibility for their own feelings, and we didn't know how to manage our own so we wanted them to do that, too.

We never really got a chance, as kids, to break the cycle that has haunted my mother's side of the family for generations. We had no control over our environment or our safety, and we depended on people who were not able, whether due to addiction or codependency, to put our well-being first. While my siblings attempted to continue having relationships with our parents over the years, I basically did not. I saw the hurt it caused them to continually be reminded what an afterthought we seemed to be. I saw how my mother continually tried to manipulate them into feeling sorry for her because she was not loved the way she wanted to be, even though she had never been able to love us the way we deserved to be, and needed to be. I spent thousands of dollars on therapy to let go of everything I didn't get when I was growing and to learn to give it to myself as an adult.

Your kids need a safe home, not a familiar one.

dandylion

SparkleKitty-----what a beautifully written post and important share that you have given for ducky.
What you have said about home/house and family contains such universal truths.

Thank you.

mylifeismine

SparkleKitty
Your post is deserving of the stickies if one ever was! Thank you.

ducky12

Thank you, I think I am going to reach out for further support. For those of you who constantly reply...thank you, from the bottom of my heart. I am blessed to have found you all.

I keep re-reading all of your wise and supportive replies. It is quite eye opening and I feel like I am maybe not as crazy
as I thought.

He has been home, as I mentioned earlier, but has taken it upon himself to sleep in our guest room. He has said nothing more to me than “good morning,” and “good night” since Friday with exception of tonight... he spoke for two minutes and said how sorry and sad he was for me because I have a problem and that those who have supported him in his recovery (sponsor, sober friends, etc.) told him “well... what did you expect from her, it was only a matter of time.” He said he feels bad for himself since I’ve put him in such a hard position and that there are no consequences for me, only for him given his history. I tried to reply but he walked away. Then no other words were said. When I tried to talk to him earlier this week he kept interrupting me, talking over me and laughing at some of the things I said. So I get quiet and then don’t say anything. This enrages him and he says “oh no, please speak.” I try and he does it all over again. So he can say wherever he wants but I must be silent. This is the norm. He played with the kids for ten minutes today, I watched them all day while multitasking (vacuuming, washing the floors, and getting some work done ahead of a very busy week). He did get a job for the first time in years a couple of months ago, after my begging and pleading and is doing quite well, and seems to enjoy it a lot. He defaults to this every time something negative comes up, e.g. you asked me to not drink- I’m not, you asked me to get a job- I did.” But it just feels like he’s checking the box.

trailmix

That's just horrible treatment of you, I'm sorry you are going through that. You two are on a completely different wave length here, he has zero understanding of you or himself really. What he is saying, really makes no sense (except to him).

I know you will make your own decisions in your own time, but you really do not deserve that treatment and you are not crazy.

dandylion

ducky------he is projecting his own crap all onto you---and, in a hostile, aggressive way----which is totally abusive. It is wrong. You don't deserve it.

trailmix

I hope you will call your local DV center ducky as, dandylion mentioned. It is completely confidential.

mylifeismine

This was a very useful tool for me when I needed to detach. It's called medium chill.
Please read it a few times before trying so you understand the concept. If your husband
reacts in anger that you are acting "different" I believe it's wise to just respond that you
aren't feeling great, have a headache, etc and walk away.

Be cautious but consistent, and I agree with calling DV.

https://outofthefog.website/what-to-...3/medium-chill

BlownOne

There's no point in his quitting drinking if he's going to continue to be a jerk. He can do that drunk. You may have to be firm with him and just tell him enough is enough and toss him out. Whatever he's doing isn't working. Some of us alcoholics have to learn the hard way that just stopping drinking isn't recovery and it certainly isn't a pass to treat other people poorly. especially those in our own homes. Sometimes tough love is the only way. Peace to you.

ducky12

Thank you, I sometimes feel it was easier when he was always intoxicated, that sounds so horrid to say! I truly appreciate everyone’s responses and have also reached out to the anonymous hotline as you’ve suggested. There is just so much anger in him, which of course he denies. He will go days at a time without speaking to me and then look at me and ask if I want to “do it.” He doesn’t want me speaking with his counselor and says she’s great and helping him but it still feels like there are very deep voids there.