Gaslighting? or Deflecting..
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Gaslighting? or Deflecting..
Hello -
Ive been reading a lot of helpful posts here and I'm hoping someone may have some helpful insight for me. I have been with my husband for 10 years, married 8. I was aware he had some issues with cocaine abuse (crack) in the past. He had completed a recovery program and was going to school/working when I met him. He has a huge heart and is quite smart, maybe too smart.
A few years into our marriage he began using again. I didn't know straight away, I just knew something was wrong. He couldn't keep a job, couldn't finish his classes and went out a lot to meet a guy-friend. I got curious and checked his phone and I founded coded messages. I knew nothing about drugs or addiction but I know people don't communicate in such a manner normally. Also there were so many one minute phone calls back and forth, literally like 10 in a 1 minute period. I later found out the friend was his old drug buddy from the old days. I also later found out that he had hocked his moms TV - told her it was broken and he took it to fix it. He hocked my wedding band and engagement ring. I was the only one working and I had to fork out 1800.00 just to get my stuff back. Fast forward after lots of painful times - He gets clean in July2014, a sobriety date he can no longer remember but I can which makes me wonder about his honesty.
So here we are...NEW FRIEND: He began working a new job in December where he's friended this new guy "Terry". Great, he has a new friend... well he starts meeting this friend at strange locations. NEW BEHAVIORS : DRINKING: They sit in his truck and drink beer (according to him). He's never been a drinker and the only time he drank before was when he was using. Sometimes he drinks an entire 6 pack before gets tome. SNEAKING/HIDING: Messages from Terry on his are coded as well, like with his friend before. He deletes them quickly before I can see them usually but the last week I caught a few... they go like this..Yo....yo...Ya...Yo. ok. Thats is it. YaYo? Really don't think anyone can put that one together? They obsessively call each other throughout the day, sometimes 10 times in a few minutes for only 1 minute each time. He doesn't even answer any of my calls during the day.
OLD BEHAVIORS : I did a little research on his new friend and he pulled time for felony cocaine distribution. That was the bullseye. Last time we went through this cycle, he had totally had me convinced that I was crazy at first (also had everyone else convinced that I was crazy). so now I do my homework for my own solidarity. PHYSICAL CHANGES: aside from sleeping issues, he has bloodshot eyes, he can't get an erection without viagra...this hasn't happened in a while - he's only 46..also he had an extreme episode of arrhythmia last week and refused to go to the hospital. His HR was 213!!! His heart was beating so hard it was scary. MONEY - He also has a good job that pays 20.00 hour and does side work for cash...and he never has any money to help with bills..? PARANOIA - He began accusing me of cheating on him for no reason. I have 2 kids and pay all of the bills, I do all of the house work. Also we have been quarantined...soooo I must have some sort of cheating super power to have time for all of this and still carry on a whole other life...
Gaslighting: I connected all of these dots. When I presented my concerns to him, he got really angry and said he deleted his messages because Im crazy and I make something out of nothing. Then he turned it around and accused me of using my office to lure men in to cheat on him. He said some pretty horrible things to me. If it weren't for me, he'd have a career? He couldn't even keep a job waiting tables! I defended myself for a little while before I realized what he was doing. He hold me to get the kids and get out last-night..
Im assuming that addicts gaslight us often? has anyone else had this experience? I do have that little voice in my head that he planted there years ago that says " what if im wrong"
Ive been reading a lot of helpful posts here and I'm hoping someone may have some helpful insight for me. I have been with my husband for 10 years, married 8. I was aware he had some issues with cocaine abuse (crack) in the past. He had completed a recovery program and was going to school/working when I met him. He has a huge heart and is quite smart, maybe too smart.
A few years into our marriage he began using again. I didn't know straight away, I just knew something was wrong. He couldn't keep a job, couldn't finish his classes and went out a lot to meet a guy-friend. I got curious and checked his phone and I founded coded messages. I knew nothing about drugs or addiction but I know people don't communicate in such a manner normally. Also there were so many one minute phone calls back and forth, literally like 10 in a 1 minute period. I later found out the friend was his old drug buddy from the old days. I also later found out that he had hocked his moms TV - told her it was broken and he took it to fix it. He hocked my wedding band and engagement ring. I was the only one working and I had to fork out 1800.00 just to get my stuff back. Fast forward after lots of painful times - He gets clean in July2014, a sobriety date he can no longer remember but I can which makes me wonder about his honesty.
So here we are...NEW FRIEND: He began working a new job in December where he's friended this new guy "Terry". Great, he has a new friend... well he starts meeting this friend at strange locations. NEW BEHAVIORS : DRINKING: They sit in his truck and drink beer (according to him). He's never been a drinker and the only time he drank before was when he was using. Sometimes he drinks an entire 6 pack before gets tome. SNEAKING/HIDING: Messages from Terry on his are coded as well, like with his friend before. He deletes them quickly before I can see them usually but the last week I caught a few... they go like this..Yo....yo...Ya...Yo. ok. Thats is it. YaYo? Really don't think anyone can put that one together? They obsessively call each other throughout the day, sometimes 10 times in a few minutes for only 1 minute each time. He doesn't even answer any of my calls during the day.
OLD BEHAVIORS : I did a little research on his new friend and he pulled time for felony cocaine distribution. That was the bullseye. Last time we went through this cycle, he had totally had me convinced that I was crazy at first (also had everyone else convinced that I was crazy). so now I do my homework for my own solidarity. PHYSICAL CHANGES: aside from sleeping issues, he has bloodshot eyes, he can't get an erection without viagra...this hasn't happened in a while - he's only 46..also he had an extreme episode of arrhythmia last week and refused to go to the hospital. His HR was 213!!! His heart was beating so hard it was scary. MONEY - He also has a good job that pays 20.00 hour and does side work for cash...and he never has any money to help with bills..? PARANOIA - He began accusing me of cheating on him for no reason. I have 2 kids and pay all of the bills, I do all of the house work. Also we have been quarantined...soooo I must have some sort of cheating super power to have time for all of this and still carry on a whole other life...
Gaslighting: I connected all of these dots. When I presented my concerns to him, he got really angry and said he deleted his messages because Im crazy and I make something out of nothing. Then he turned it around and accused me of using my office to lure men in to cheat on him. He said some pretty horrible things to me. If it weren't for me, he'd have a career? He couldn't even keep a job waiting tables! I defended myself for a little while before I realized what he was doing. He hold me to get the kids and get out last-night..
Im assuming that addicts gaslight us often? has anyone else had this experience? I do have that little voice in my head that he planted there years ago that says " what if im wrong"
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Originally Posted by SoTired74
Im assuming that addicts gaslight us often? has anyone else had this experience? I do have that little voice in my head that he planted there years ago that says " what if im wrong"
Many, many of us have had this experience.
You are not wrong.
I'm sorry you have lived through so much with this man. His accusations toward you are his addiction talking--to deflect away from the elephant in the room.
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Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Virginia
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Hi SoTired74,
Sorry for what brings you here. First of all, you are not wrong. He is doing everything he can to convince you that you have the problem and not him. You are correct about the coded message. No one talks like that unless their practicing to become a rapper. If that's the case then he has a lot of work ahead of him. But deleting/ sneaking/ and hiding messages. That a red flag. No one deletes a message to keep someone else from being crazy. They do it to hide something. Until he admits that he has a problem and seeks help it's not going to get better.
You have told him how you feel and your concerns. Don't engage with his badgering and manipulation. It will get you nowhere. It is up to him to take the initiative and get help. It sounds like you can support your self. It sounds like you have been doing it for a while. You need to look after yourself and your two kids. You have the strength to do this. keep coming back here for help. Their are a lot smart people here that want to help you.
Sorry for what brings you here. First of all, you are not wrong. He is doing everything he can to convince you that you have the problem and not him. You are correct about the coded message. No one talks like that unless their practicing to become a rapper. If that's the case then he has a lot of work ahead of him. But deleting/ sneaking/ and hiding messages. That a red flag. No one deletes a message to keep someone else from being crazy. They do it to hide something. Until he admits that he has a problem and seeks help it's not going to get better.
You have told him how you feel and your concerns. Don't engage with his badgering and manipulation. It will get you nowhere. It is up to him to take the initiative and get help. It sounds like you can support your self. It sounds like you have been doing it for a while. You need to look after yourself and your two kids. You have the strength to do this. keep coming back here for help. Their are a lot smart people here that want to help you.
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Set aside the jargon.
Does the relationship have parity? (You're paying for everything and doing all the housework)
Are you being treated well? (Your partner makes efforts to spend time without you, and accuses you of cheating.)
What kinds of friends does he chose? (Felons)
Drinks a six-pack before coming home? (That's a lot. Even if he's not drunk, but that's not healthy)
Pawned your rings. (that's actually stealing your property to enrich himself.)
What does it matter what it's called? For that matter, if it wasn't drinking or drug abuse, would this treatment be acceptable?
You have children. Do you wish to teach them that this is how a partnership works? that this is what a woman should expect from marriage?
Does the relationship have parity? (You're paying for everything and doing all the housework)
Are you being treated well? (Your partner makes efforts to spend time without you, and accuses you of cheating.)
What kinds of friends does he chose? (Felons)
Drinks a six-pack before coming home? (That's a lot. Even if he's not drunk, but that's not healthy)
Pawned your rings. (that's actually stealing your property to enrich himself.)
What does it matter what it's called? For that matter, if it wasn't drinking or drug abuse, would this treatment be acceptable?
You have children. Do you wish to teach them that this is how a partnership works? that this is what a woman should expect from marriage?
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
SoTired------With all of this going on, I don't imagine that you have very much peace of mind. I sounds awful. When you ask---in the face of so much observable behaviors---"what if I am wrong?"
it looks to me like you desperately want it all not to be true---and, that your self esteem and self confidence in yourself has been eroded.
You sound like an intelligent woman----and you Know what you Know.
to answer your question----Yes, gasligjting is common and, yes, it is used as a deflection.
Just to underline what the other posters have said----cocaine addiction and alcoholism are powerful addictions----which won't get better unless he decides to get help and get clean and sober---and, also, gets help to deal with the issues in his life that have led him to use chemicals to deal with his emotional self. Likely, whatever issues he had, occured early lin his life---way before you even met him.
SoTired----I think you would be spinning your wheels to engage with him in any effort to "debate" with him. His brain is altered and it will just wear you down to a nibbin. In his condition---you will never win an argument and reason will not prevail. You might as well go beat your head against a tree.
To save your self needless frustration and mental exhaustion---we often say not to JADE.(unless you want to).
J----justify yourself
A----argue
D---defend yourself
E--explain yourself
Remember, too---just because he says a thing does not make it true.
We don't have to attend every argument that we are invited to.
it looks to me like you desperately want it all not to be true---and, that your self esteem and self confidence in yourself has been eroded.
You sound like an intelligent woman----and you Know what you Know.
to answer your question----Yes, gasligjting is common and, yes, it is used as a deflection.
Just to underline what the other posters have said----cocaine addiction and alcoholism are powerful addictions----which won't get better unless he decides to get help and get clean and sober---and, also, gets help to deal with the issues in his life that have led him to use chemicals to deal with his emotional self. Likely, whatever issues he had, occured early lin his life---way before you even met him.
SoTired----I think you would be spinning your wheels to engage with him in any effort to "debate" with him. His brain is altered and it will just wear you down to a nibbin. In his condition---you will never win an argument and reason will not prevail. You might as well go beat your head against a tree.
To save your self needless frustration and mental exhaustion---we often say not to JADE.(unless you want to).
J----justify yourself
A----argue
D---defend yourself
E--explain yourself
Remember, too---just because he says a thing does not make it true.
We don't have to attend every argument that we are invited to.
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Join Date: Jul 2020
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Yikes - how uncomfortable and ugly.
I do have some insight. You asked for that. Take your children and the material things you value and leave if you can. I don't know if you have anywhere to go, but just about anywhere is better than the space you're sharing with him right now. He sounds about as highly influenced by his drug/s of choice as is possible.
When we're under the influence, we loose all capacity to be reasonable, logical, fair, or approachable. We lie, steal, cheat, and demoralize. We can look another person right in the eyes and tell a bold-faced lie - without blinking. And we expect them to believe it. We're like steamrollers without a conscience. Granted, there may be one or two of us out there who don't fit this model, but they're probably from another planet too.
You can't control or reason with this man - sorry,, but it's true. You only have power and control over your own life and your kids. They deserve to be protected, I'm sure.
I do have some insight. You asked for that. Take your children and the material things you value and leave if you can. I don't know if you have anywhere to go, but just about anywhere is better than the space you're sharing with him right now. He sounds about as highly influenced by his drug/s of choice as is possible.
When we're under the influence, we loose all capacity to be reasonable, logical, fair, or approachable. We lie, steal, cheat, and demoralize. We can look another person right in the eyes and tell a bold-faced lie - without blinking. And we expect them to believe it. We're like steamrollers without a conscience. Granted, there may be one or two of us out there who don't fit this model, but they're probably from another planet too.
You can't control or reason with this man - sorry,, but it's true. You only have power and control over your own life and your kids. They deserve to be protected, I'm sure.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,609
Originally Posted by SoTired74 
" what if im wrong"
What you are seeing and hearing with your own eyes is very real, never doubt that.
Frankly, you sound incredibly logical and reasonable.
When someone lives with an addict, it's not just the addict that is affected (as you already know) but I think sometimes it can be overlooked that it's not just maddening and frustrating and etc etc - it can affect the way we think. It's really important to guard against that and I see you making that effort and commend it. I'm glad you posted.
Drugs are running his life, they are now running your life too in many ways. You didn't Cause it, can't Control it and can't Cure it (the 3 c's).
You are not crazy, you are not making things up.
Time to put the focus back on yourself and your kiddies, trying to make sense of what he is doing is a waste of your time, he is gaslighting you.
I hope you keep posting.
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Join Date: Aug 2020
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ok - the Worstershire sauce quote made me laugh. You know that feeling when you are one flutter away from a full on panic attack? Every nerve I have is buzzing and my brain is foggy, my heart is beating fast and hard, I cant relax, eat or sleep. Waiting for the next shoe to drop. Ive felt this way before, its been a long while, I hate this feeling with all of my being. It's like being in an alternate reality, honestly. I actually feel like I am on drugs, I guess adrenaline is a drug. I was so hurt, now I am so angry. I haven't said a word to him in 2 days, I just cant. Ive been sleeping on the couch. He just asked, with a very angry voice and face if I wanted to go for a walk. I don't understand the aggression while asking me if I want to go for a walk with him. I declined and he tore out of the driveway in his truck. I know he wants to continue to tell me how crazy I am and how I have things all wrong. Every cell in my body tells me im right, so since I cant trust the addict, I need to trust myself. Any advice as to what to do when he asks to talk again? My mental state is the equivalent to a nervous lightning storm and im afraid I will say something I regret. Hey, I know addiction is a sickness/illness but Im not sure if im willing to feel like this ever again. I poured all of the energy and love I had into him years ago when we fought this demon together. Im feel too old and tired! I don't have that fight in me anymore.
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Drugs are running his life, they are now running your life too in many ways. You didn't Cause it, can't Control it and can't Cure it (the 3 c's).
Thank you Trailmix! This quote is a re-set for a healthier perspective when my head starts to spin.
Thank you Trailmix! This quote is a re-set for a healthier perspective when my head starts to spin.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
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Hi sotired. As Dandylion said above - We don't have to attend every argument that we are invited to.
That is very true. All of this is within your control. You don't have to feel like this, you don't have to give him another "break" you don't have to fight his addiction (and you can't).
Feeling like that is just horrible. Time to step away from it? Perhaps he should leave for a while, at least, or you can if you like.
That is very true. All of this is within your control. You don't have to feel like this, you don't have to give him another "break" you don't have to fight his addiction (and you can't).
Feeling like that is just horrible. Time to step away from it? Perhaps he should leave for a while, at least, or you can if you like.
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Thank you !
Thank you!!!
To save your self needless frustration and mental exhaustion---we often say not to JADE.(unless you want to).
J----justify yourself
A----argue
D---defend yourself
E--explain yourself
To save your self needless frustration and mental exhaustion---we often say not to JADE.(unless you want to).
J----justify yourself
A----argue
D---defend yourself
E--explain yourself
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 6
I’m not sure what to do. I just know nothing can move forward while he so aggressive, even when asking me to go for a walk: what is that all about? He clearly didn’t want me to say yes after he asked me in such a scary way. Maybe that’s his way of wanting to blame me again? I hate mind games addicts play. If I had a place to go I would be gone already. Covid also doesn’t help with options.
how do I know when he’s really ready to talk? He’ll be kind and truthful?
how do I know when he’s really ready to talk? He’ll be kind and truthful?
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SoTired........I think that, right now, your main priority should be your health, first. You are the children;s mother and they need you. If you get sick, who will take care of them.
Since I don't know the particulars of your situation.....I have a few suggestions that you might think about.
1. I would call your doctor and tell him/her that you are having severe symptoms of anxiety. bordering on panic attacks. Perhaps you could have a prescription to tide you over.
2 An option is to call a woman's shelter and ask them to allow you to stay with them for a few days---and,, with the children, as well. I know of many women who have done that, It is a safe and nurturing environment. You are not under any obligation to stay longer than you want. It will give you a chance to settle yoiurself.
3. What to tell him? When in doubt---tell him the truth (unless you think that he will become physically aggressive).
Say the basics--"-I am physically and mentally exhausted, to the point that I think I am having a mental and physical breakdown.I have to get away for a little while, or I think that I may have to go into the hospital.. I can't go on,". Then take the kids and check into a motel..After you are in the motel----call and talk to a counselor at the local dv center---and, ask about going to the shelter for a few days. If it were me (it isn't) I don't mind telling you that I would tell him that you feel extremely dizzy and your heart is racing and you dont feel normal and you feel like you may be close to having a stroke, Personally, I think you have to do what you have to do to take care of yourself.
I can pretty much gurantee you that he is thinking about where his next hit or drink is coming from.
Since I don't know the particulars of your situation.....I have a few suggestions that you might think about.
1. I would call your doctor and tell him/her that you are having severe symptoms of anxiety. bordering on panic attacks. Perhaps you could have a prescription to tide you over.
2 An option is to call a woman's shelter and ask them to allow you to stay with them for a few days---and,, with the children, as well. I know of many women who have done that, It is a safe and nurturing environment. You are not under any obligation to stay longer than you want. It will give you a chance to settle yoiurself.
3. What to tell him? When in doubt---tell him the truth (unless you think that he will become physically aggressive).
Say the basics--"-I am physically and mentally exhausted, to the point that I think I am having a mental and physical breakdown.I have to get away for a little while, or I think that I may have to go into the hospital.. I can't go on,". Then take the kids and check into a motel..After you are in the motel----call and talk to a counselor at the local dv center---and, ask about going to the shelter for a few days. If it were me (it isn't) I don't mind telling you that I would tell him that you feel extremely dizzy and your heart is racing and you dont feel normal and you feel like you may be close to having a stroke, Personally, I think you have to do what you have to do to take care of yourself.
I can pretty much gurantee you that he is thinking about where his next hit or drink is coming from.
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Yes- I agree it would be best for me to get away from this thick, negative energy. Staying here with him makes my skin crawl and his mere presence here keeps my psyche and nerves over-stimulated. My family is not great and they would take any opportunity to kick my while I’m down. If they find out they will call social servers and I’ll have a whole other More stressful issue to deal with. His mother would love for us to part so she can feed her codependency once again. I craze peace and clarity.
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I think dandylion has given you some great, concrete actions you can take, SoTired. I know it must all feel so overwhelming!
Sometimes reaching out to a Domestic Violence hotline or shelter can seem sooooo scary, so I wanted to share a thread with you written by one of our members. It's about what she experienced when she called. I thought it might help you.
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...e-hotline.html (Calling the Domestic Violence Hotline)
Sometimes reaching out to a Domestic Violence hotline or shelter can seem sooooo scary, so I wanted to share a thread with you written by one of our members. It's about what she experienced when she called. I thought it might help you.
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...e-hotline.html (Calling the Domestic Violence Hotline)
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Hi SoTired,
I'm glad my quote could bring a little laughter to your life. It seems like you could use a bit of cheering up with all the things you have been through. Everyone is right that you need to look after yourself and your kids. You guys are what comes first. You have spent enough energy on him. You are getting no where by the way he is acting and the way he makes you feel. No one deserves to feel that way in their own home. Listen to what Dandylion has said up above. It is good advice. I know it is scary to make that first step, but just take it one step at a time, one day at a time. Focus on you and the kids getting to a better place. Keep being strong.
I'm glad my quote could bring a little laughter to your life. It seems like you could use a bit of cheering up with all the things you have been through. Everyone is right that you need to look after yourself and your kids. You guys are what comes first. You have spent enough energy on him. You are getting no where by the way he is acting and the way he makes you feel. No one deserves to feel that way in their own home. Listen to what Dandylion has said up above. It is good advice. I know it is scary to make that first step, but just take it one step at a time, one day at a time. Focus on you and the kids getting to a better place. Keep being strong.
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,248
Gas lighting, deflection with some paranoia. Yup. Experienced/experiencing that. Have to watch because many will try to craft a narrative harder than a publicity agent. They travel on image-they do nothing wrong you do. Sooner or later they won't be able to maintain the act because that's what it is. Most people wind up seeing through them but they have a knack for fooling/coning people, more importantly the right people. Those who validate their behavior and do them favors.
Best bet ignore as much as possible and don't engage in debate
Best bet ignore as much as possible and don't engage in debate
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