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I think my wife is alcohol dependent, don't know what else to do.



I think my wife is alcohol dependent, don't know what else to do.

Old 09-27-2020, 06:31 AM
  # 101 (permalink)  
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From the addict’s point of view, as long as she can keep the status quo, the longer she can keep drinking in comfort.

You keep believing what you know to not be true for the same reason, and the kids are caught in the middle.

Sorry to be blunt, but you are enabling, not helping, at this point.

Her addiction is controlling both of you.
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Old 09-27-2020, 06:53 AM
  # 102 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Bidgdrunner View Post
She was totally brazen again in drinking a beer at 17:00 last night.
You keep calling her brazen, which implies that you think that she should be hiding her alcoholic consumption. There is no upside to hiding the drink and in fact, it's actually a very bad sign for the whole family when an alcoholic falls into hiding their drink. With hidden drinking, you all are hooked into lies. Lies and secrecy are the bedrock of a codependent family. Lies and secrecy erode intimacy, emotional security and love. Do not ever ask an alcoholic to "be discreet," for it will not help the situation. It only signals how deeply hooked we are in codependence with them. Asking them to hide the drink only perpetuates an illusion and our own lies to ourselves.

Are you in a program or a community support network yourself?
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Old 09-27-2020, 07:01 AM
  # 103 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Bidgdrunner View Post
all I want is an acceptance that she has a problem and for her to beg me to help her, which would be something I would absolute love to offer her.
You cannot help her. Her recovery is nothing for you to be working on at all. Not one single, tiny, solitary bit. Your need to help her is something for you to be working on.



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Old 09-27-2020, 08:19 AM
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Bidg-----I wrote you a post on 9/15----which I would ask you to read, again. Why? Because I think you are asking your wife to do an almost humanly impossible thing, at THIS point. I realize that it is in your own ignorance of the alcoholism---this is why I am stressing this point so much. I am speaking as a person who has supervised the detoxification of hundreds of alcoholics.
As much as your wife has been drinking for the last number of years---when you are asking her to "quit"---or, even, to "cut down"---you are asking her to take on an extreme amount of physical and emotional Suffering---within a few hours. At this point, the body, which is very physically dependent on the alcohol, at this point, goes into very dangerous alcohol withdrawl symptoms. When this happens, every cell in her body and brain are calling out for alcohol to stop the pain. At this point, she can think of nothing---not you, or the kids, or her job, or any promises that she may have made----nothing but getting a drink of alcohol to stop the pain.
If the alcohol withdrawl symptoms are left completely untreated---by not allowing some drink or the proper medically supervised Medications---the person's life is, literally, in danger. They can have withdrawl seizures or some vascular event (like stroke or heart malfunction). or slide into a psychotic state via delirium tremens (DT's).
She may well mean the "promises" when she makes them and wish that she could carry them out----but, when the withdrawl symptoms begin, almost every alcoholic will reach for the liquor to quell the pain.
If you do not believe me---go to a doctor and ask them if this is correct. Also. ask a doctor how to obtain medical supervision for your wife's humane detoxification. I would make suggestions, but, I am not famkiliar with the medical systems in your country.
Personally, I would never ask an alcoholic who is as far along in their alcoholism as your wife is, to quit "cold turkey". I consider that to be inhumane and generally futile, when there is the lifesaving comfort possible and available.
I believe that it is worth your time to see a doctor yourself to find out how to proceed with this, in your country. You might even print out my postings on this subject and show it to the doctor and ask if I am correct or not.
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Old 09-27-2020, 09:23 AM
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Like some others have said, I believe that when your wife promises she won't ever drink again she intends to keep that promise.

There were times I believe my AXH meant it when he said, "This time I'm done for good!". Sometimes he didn't mean it, he'd just be saying he'd quit to get me off his back. But other times, I could see the acknowledgement in his eyes, he knew things were bad, he knew he was hurting us both, I believe he wanted to change that... but he didn't want to do the hard work that would actually make that happen so it always failed. His demons always won. It was easier to pick up a drink then it was to delve into what was causing him to have the compulsion to self medicate in the first place. Us loving each other and our family was not enough to stop the crazy train of addiction and codependence.

I'm sorry this is happening to you, your wife and your family. I know exactly how painful, infuriating and defeating it is. I hope you take Dandy's advice to talk to a doctor about just how serious this is. It is not just as simple as never picking up another drink. If it were that easy none of us would be here. Knowledge is power, keeping seeking.
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Old 09-28-2020, 12:19 AM
  # 106 (permalink)  
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Have you ever had a hard time doing something? Ever needed to lose weight, have you ever broken up with someone you didn't want to break up with and had a hell of a time staying out of contact with them? Ever failed at trying something. Do you ever wake up and think, something like, I'm going to get in to shape! I'll go for a run this afternoon and get started and then stayed in to watch tv instead? Become a vegan? Cut down on - whatever your comfort food is?

If not, this may not make any sense but it gives you an idea of the resolve you can have when you KNOW you should be doing something so you say, ok I will do it (and you mean it!) but when push comes to shove, it's just too hard.

These things give you a vague idea of why she says, I'm done! I'm going to quit! She may mean it but addiction is a serious thing, she is addicted physically and mentally and withdrawal can be hell (and also very dangerous) as dandylion has mentioned.

Don't expect her to beg you for help, it's unrealistic. The uphill battle, after the withdrawal must look like a mountain. Only a professional working with her could probably get to the bottom of that. She has to have the will to quit, nothing you have said indicates she is interested in doing that right now. It's her choice.



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Old 09-28-2020, 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted by trailmix View Post
Have you ever had a hard time doing something? Ever needed to lose weight, have you ever broken up with someone you didn't want to break up with and had a hell of a time staying out of contact with them? Ever failed at trying something. Do you ever wake up and think, something like, I'm going to get in to shape! I'll go for a run this afternoon and get started and then stayed in to watch tv instead? Become a vegan? Cut down on - whatever your comfort food is?

If not, this may not make any sense but it gives you an idea of the resolve you can have when you KNOW you should be doing something so you say, ok I will do it (and you mean it!) but when push comes to shove, it's just too hard.

These things give you a vague idea of why she says, I'm done! I'm going to quit! She may mean it but addiction is a serious thing, she is addicted physically and mentally and withdrawal can be hell (and also very dangerous) as dandylion has mentioned.

Don't expect her to beg you for help, it's unrealistic. The uphill battle, after the withdrawal must look like a mountain. Only a professional working with her could probably get to the bottom of that. She has to have the will to quit, nothing you have said indicates she is interested in doing that right now. It's her choice.

I'm very lucky that I have tremendous willpower. I've run most days for almost a decade. Normal bodyweight for my height, don't smoke or drink, can run 5k in 18 mins at almost 45, so guess that's part of my frustration, because I see identifying issues and taking control of them as being routine. No one else has responsibility for me and my body, so it's up to me to do so.

When I used the term 'beg' I think on reflection it was not as apt as it could have been. But, I know she hates who she is, and I know she admits it's a problem, which I felt should put her in a good place for wanting to do something about it. I accept that from that point actually doing something about it is hard. But, I know she's tried, generally quite pitifully, but never really put her heart into it, despite my pleas and my threats but I at least hoped that she might be able to admit that she would like some help, that's what I meant, as at least we could try something more constructive, perhaps some medical intervention for example. But no, she merely insists she has it under control when all past experience points very conclusively to the fact that she does not, and that this cycle will continue.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. I do appreciate everyone taking the time and it does help. The trouble is, and as frustrating as this is, no amount of reading different people say the same thing again and again and again is really sinking it. Seems I need to learn this for myself, clearly the hard way. All I'll say, is that keep the advice coming please and I really hope that it takes me to that place of realisation just a little bit quicker than it might if I wasn't benefitting from everyone else's similar, and equally horrible, life experiences.
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Old 09-28-2020, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Bidgdrunner View Post
....at least we could try something more constructive....
Not we, she.
Your only work is let her find her own way. Your only work is to slowly unhook from your need to help her.

Are you in any kind of program for yourself or involved in a community of support?

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Old 09-28-2020, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Bidgdrunner View Post
.....No one else has responsibility for me and my body, so it's up to me to do so.
This part that I quoted from you?... this right here... this is where your wife needs to get to in terms of her recovery. This is something you have zero control over... just like no one else can tell you to get up off your butt, strap your shoes on and hit the pavement.. you have to have the will and the power to do it... same goes for her.

I'm glad you are sticking around Bidg. I know these realizations aren't easy to swallow.
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Old 09-28-2020, 08:37 AM
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Bidge-----as you are recounting your habits, I get it that you have the control thing down. It appears. to me. that Acceptance of the reality of the situation is your challenge, here.
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Old 09-28-2020, 09:01 AM
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Bidge, is a 30 day in-patient rehab a possibility for her?
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Old 09-28-2020, 09:55 AM
  # 112 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Bidgdrunner View Post
I'm very lucky that I have tremendous willpower...
She is not you

Originally Posted by Bidgdrunner View Post
But, I know she hates who she is... she admits it's a problem
You know nothing of the sort. You know what words come out of her mouth when you nag her about it.

Originally Posted by Bidgdrunner View Post
...which I felt should put her in a good place for wanting to do something about it.
Again, the two of you are separate people.

Originally Posted by Bidgdrunner View Post
But, I know she's tried... but never really put her heart into it, despite my pleas and my threats but I at least hoped that she might be able to admit that she would like some help,
She doesn't have a problem with her drinking. You do.

Originally Posted by Bidgdrunner View Post
at least we could try something more constructive,
What is this 'we' business?

Originally Posted by Bidgdrunner View Post
...she merely insists she has it under control when all past experience points very conclusively to the fact that she does not, and that this cycle will continue.
It was after my husband's death that I arrived at a place of true forgiveness (and the struggle is real, forgiveness is not my strong suit.) I wrote on this forum that he had never even tried to quit drinking. One wise soul replied, "He couldn't." So true. At some point, there no longer is an option of taking charge.

On another question-and-answer forum, I read just this morning a question from a person with substantial liver damage, who hadn't had a drink for two weeks. His question was, "Is it ok for me to just drink 1 5% of alcohol beer?"
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Old 09-28-2020, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Zevin View Post
Bidge, is a 30 day in-patient rehab a possibility for her?
a brutally honest, and thoroughly, thoroughly depressing post - thank you though, genuinely, I don't need people tiptoeing round this.
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Old 09-28-2020, 11:32 AM
  # 114 (permalink)  
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You're right that right now, no amount of reading will make it sink in, it's about acceptance, not knowledge. Knowledge about this is vitally important, of course, but acceptance that you can't control this is equally important, knowledge comes first for the other to sink in.

You could actually apply that to your wife's situation as well. You can talk to her all day long, tell her how great sobriety would be, how it will mend your family and allow you to keep being a close family, your version is not having that affect. She has the knowledge, basically, she doesn't sound like she has accepted that she is powerless over this. So maybe that gives you a better idea of how she might be thinking. You both know what you know but this is a standoff.

My Father was an alcoholic, all his life, he never sought treatment that I am aware of and I know he was offered help by his employer at one point and he quit instead.

He was married to a woman for some years and they had 3 children. She left him and he never saw his two sons again. He married my Mother and she left him too eventually, after 20 or so years, I have no doubt that he would have chosen differently if he felt he could, but he couldn't and she had long given up on the marriage.

So people leave their families (or have them leave), they leave wives, husbands, children, babies and other family members - to continue drinking, it happens every day and there are many stories of that in the Newcomer's to recovery forum. Everyone wants to think they are different, everyone wants to believe and hope their story will be different, generally it's not.

If you believe your wife knows what she is doing is "wrong" and destructive, you may well be right. Your logical draw from this is that she therefore wants to/intends to correct that. That's not necessarily true, she may know but perhaps what she wants is to maintain what she has now, this is, basically, working for her. She can have her family and drink as well.

You may say she can't, but that's not the reality, today, she can.



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Old 09-28-2020, 11:49 AM
  # 115 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Bidgdrunner View Post
a brutally honest, and thoroughly, thoroughly depressing post - thank you though, genuinely, I don't need people tiptoeing round this.
It looks to me like you've got two options:

You can live with her or move.

No one who thinks their drinking is under control is going to go to treatment. And on the off chance that they do - it's going to be a colossal waste of time and money, and energy/hope for their loved ones.

On a different off chance that your SO quit drinking for you - in the place of her alcohol and drinking would exist resentment of epic proportions towards you. That's just how we roll.
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