Sleepyhollo

Welcome Bid
It sounds all too familiar....I was with my ex for 16 years and he was an alcoholic for all of it although I didn’t really see it for what it was. He’s smart in the medical field and he should know better right? Over the years he stopped several times, understanding that he and a problem. Except he never sought help so it would never last very long. The longest she lasted was 14 months but he was a dry drunk....meaning that he quit drinking but had not sought any help so he now was a grumpy depressed man with no alcohol and no coping skills. It wasnt much better at all.
the last year he got really bad and I hit my rock bottoms ang sorte him a long letter explaining how I could no longer do this and I would give him one more chance. He quit but only because he himself had gotten to the point where he felt he could,not continue like that and needed that final push (he later admitted in marriage counseling). The difference for me was this time that I was actually prepared to follow through and leave him. I had enfer been at that point.
He also was what I thought of as a functional alcoholic. Went to work, saved lives and then came home and started drinking. Would pass out or go to bed early, get up when I went to bed late and drank some more and would quit long enough before he had to go to work so he would be sober. What I learned after is that he really wasn’t functional. He was at work and with other people. But at home he was not functional at all. You know, the place where it mattered the most. And of course I covered for him with excuses more than I’d like to admit.
Iit still didn’t work out between the two of us. Too much damage was done to the relationship for me anyway. He was ready to move forward but that’s excuse he didn’t suffer all those years because he was too drunk to notice. But at least he is clean and I can trust him with my kid, one reason I was really reluctant to leave sooner. We tried for 1.5 years after rehab but I just couldn’t get past it. I had grown a lot and got past a lot of my codependency (which I didn’t even know what it was and how much that was me until I read codependent no more). He changed as well, he had to in order to stay sober. He isn’t a and man but my love for him was destroyed.
if love could cure addiction none of us would be here. Educate yourself about alcoholism and realize that this is not a very healthy environment for your kids. Have open discussions with them (without badmouthing their mom), they are old enough. But like others say, it will get worse, we all have heard the promises that give us hope only to realize sooner or later they were false promises. There is nothing you can do to make her quit. It is 100% on her and it isn’t easy but it is possible. But she has to want it herself. See if you can find the documentary Pleasure unwoven . It is a really good documentary on alcoholism. They showed it to us in rehab.
good luck with everything. Start taking care of you and your kids, Counseling for you and alanon as well and of course coming back here.

Bidgdrunner

That's a really useful way of seeing things. Like many of us I absolutely detest the drunken person. Much of me still loves the sober person, although much of me also recognises that much of what I love still is the memory of what I used to love, not perhaps the person she now is, even when sober. Almost five years of struggle and effort have diluted much of what I had, and it's also fair to say that we're both not the people we were in 2001 when we met. BUT, I adore still the four of us as a family and that draw remains strong, and part of being married of course is facing the bad and enjoying the good as part of the wonderful balance of life, but not when you're living with someone who's behaviour has gone miles beyond reasonable, and who shows zero signs of changing. The consistent view I've had in response to this, for which I'm grateful, albeit was what I expected and have found quite reassuring, is that there's very little I can do if anything to make her change. That has to come from her wanting it. I just need to look after me and the kids.

Bidgdrunner

wow 16 years! I've had five and had enough a long time ago. I'm only barely sensing how hard it is to step away though, when you hope again and again that they'll change, and when the person you interact with during the day is 'normal'. I really hate that no one else sees what I see. My wife has friends but when they meet up for a chat or in the pub, they all drink, of course they do, that's a fun social thing to do, but it's the solo drinking, to excess, night after night, usually overlapping with her last hour of work (thanks to covid we've both been working from home since March!) that I simply can't get my head around. I guess you felt a huge sense of relief once you'd stepped away? I'm close to 100% convinced I'll feel the same way, but guess like jumping out of an aeroplane with a parachute, it's that first step which is hardest.

Bidgdrunner

So, this week's drinking diary! Another brutal week - passed out five nights of seven.

The question I'd love an answer from others on, is how do I deal with the fact that I cling on to and cherish the nights when she doesn't drink, as if that somehow makes up for all the other nights when she does? By any measure her drinking and the effects on me are atrocious, but during the day she's mostly good company, and even on the very odd night when she doesn't drink, but then night after night she's this awful imposter. Balancing the tension between the times that are good and the times that are very bad is driving me crazy. Friday 14th August 2020. Two large glasses in the pub, two medium glasses in the restaurant. Once home she drank a whole bottle plus one medium glass. She was slurring and her eyes were glazed long before she passed out at 22:25. She came to bed when I woke her, walking into the wardrobe as she staggered to bed. 21 units. 98.5 units for the week.

Thursday 13th August 2020. She went to the shop. I helped her unload the car. She had not bought any booze in the shopping bags I helped pack away. Then she brought her rucksack in. It had six bottles of wine in. She put one in the fridge, one in the bag to take away this weekend and four on the wine rack. One came off the rack later into the fridge and she drank all of one bottle. 9 units.

Wednesday 12th August 2020. Ben had a sleepover at Sam's. Sam lives 300 yards away but Liz offered to drive him. She was gone ten mins and came back with a bottle of wine. She drank a can of beer and then the whole bottle, passing out about 22:20. 15 mins later she stirred and asked me if I was going running! She staggered to bed with glazed eyes. 11 units. The 4th consecutive night she has passed out.

Tuesday 11th August 2020. Three large glasses of wine plus one medium in the pub. She was very drunk and argumentative long before we left. The kids were teasing her when she bought more wine as she already had a soft drink (mum, you must be thirsty!). She had a further coffee spirit when we got home and passed out at 22:15. 12 units.

Monday 10th August 2020. Out shopping in town. We stopped at a pub. One medium and one large glass, followed by two large glasses at the restaurant. She finished a medium glass from one bottle and then drank all of a 2nd, passing out soon after 21:30. She snored for an hour. Before she passed out she could barely speak, knocking a fan over and repeatedly asking me if I wanted a drink and going on and on about it being too hot. She woke about 22:40 and staggered to bed, coming down ten mins later to hunt for paracetamol. 21.5 units.

Sunday 9th August. In the pub from 15:00. Two large glasses, and then it was incessant until 21:30 when she passed out. She finished the 7 units in a bottle in the fridge and then drank all but one very small glass from the next bottle. 21 units. She was absolutely wasted. Barely able to speak, going on and on about a scratch card. She dropped food off the BBQ and at one stage woke up and slurred 'ok' for no reason. Not fun.

Saturday 8th August. Very tired all day. One can of beer. 2 units

biminiblue

I'm not going to get into how sad all that sounds, but I'm an alcoholic in recovery - I wanted to mention something about the paracetamol:

Please - encourage her to buy something else to take for her head or pain or whatever she takes it for: paracetamol is very dangerous to use with alcohol, it can cause rapid liver failure.

Read the drug circular on paracetamol. When I drank I only took aspirin. Not that it makes me a shining example, but really paracetamol is the worst for drinkers/heavy drinkers.

Hawkeye13

Have you read Codependent No More Bid? Maybe you cling because alcoholism is a family disease? Also, over time we keep lowering the bar on acceptable behavior from our addicts.

What would your close friends or other family members say if they read your last post about your wife”s alcohol consumption,and your continued acceptance of this lifestyle for yourself and your children?

It sounds like living hell to me as a pure outsider, and I have been on both sides of the coin.

dandylion

Bidg------Jules89 asked a similar question in her thread. You can see my comment to her ----which is the very last entry on her thread.

Bekindalways

Hey Bidg this sounds both miserable and typical. I'm so sorry you are going through this.

Leaving our qualifiers is often as difficult as the qualifier giving up the alcohol. We become very enmeshed in their drinking. Please start educating yourself about codependency. The more you can focus on yourself and detach from her drinking the better.

I can sure understand how the good times keep you in the relationship. Many alcoholics are tremendous people with wonderful characteristics. Unfortunately these good times will probably become fewer and fewer as she degenerates.

Let us know what you are learning and what you are doing for yourself in this difficult situation.

Zevin

I was the drunk in our seemingly perfect family, keeping up drink by drink with my spouse. He could handle more alcohol, physically, than I could. He mentioned his concerns about my drinking a couple of times but when he opened a bottle of wine (or vodka, scotch etc) he always poured me several drinks too. Then I’d continue to drink after he went to bed.

It was only after a few continuous seizure attacks, that a Dr. was honest enough to explain I was an alcoholic and off a to 30 day rehab I went. It worked and I do not drink anymore. Not an easy thing to do, but certainly not impossible.
After a few months, I got to see the OTHER side...my spouse is an alcoholic, albeit a “functional” one—-still working a great job, no DUI’s etc.

I feel for you Bidge—-it’s a lonely, hard place to be—watching a beloved person in your life disappear. The letter you wrote her was succinct and perfect. I wondered how I would have responded to a letter like that....probably, shocked yet lots of empty promises to stop.
Now that the Sober shoe is on MY foot, I do ponder leaving him and wonder if a letter from me to him would have any effect.

Welcome to the Sober Recovery Site and thanks for sharing your experience.
Hoping for peace for ALL of us—the ones who fight for recovery everyday and the families who love them, hoping they will change.

Amaranth

Hello BD
your meticulous note taking on your wife's drinking seems to me like a huge waste of your energy. Alcoholics drink whether or not you count their drinks.
I feel all this energy you are focusing on how much she drinks could be better spent on playing a board game with the kids in the evening. Can't you leave her passed out on the sofa and do something nice for yourself and your kids?
In my experience and from what I gather from reading this forum, the alcoholic will not hear a thing until they are ready to face their problem. Worse still they will reinterpret everything you say to protect their right to drink and to paint you as the baddie. What she does with her life is her choice. How you choose to pass your time is yours.
How are the kids doing? Have you had any nice days out lately ( as much as current Corona situation allows in your area)? Have you had a good old belly laugh with them this week?
I am 2 and a half years on from leaving my alcoholic. It has been messy and difficult and it continues to drag on. One thing I have come to realise is that childhood is short. It's over before you know it and I want to do as much as I can with my kids, days out, fun, focus on getting them what they need in life.
Their dad continues to drink but his drinking is no longer the main focus of our family day after day.
Don't give your wife's drinking the front seat. Focus on what's good, remember what it feels like to have fun with your kids again. I understand how painful it is and you are so deeply enmeshed right now. I have been in that place and I know it sucks.

Bidgdrunner

Hi, thanks for taking the time to reply. Only been here a week but already found this forum of immense help. It's the school holidays in the UK and in fact we were supposed to be in Barcelona this week but covid put paid to that so had a really good stay-cation doing all the great stuff nearer home (although this has meant plenty of reasons for her to drink).

I get what you write about my recording what she drinks but just have a compulsion to do it. I understand the view that it's neither healthy nor indeed helpful but, somehow, it makes me feel a bit better. It justifies my miserableness as I know objectively, not just subjectively, that's she's an alcoholic. Not sure what good knowing that actually does but I'm bereft of any other real understanding of what an earth else I can do. Such a feeling of being powerless and pathetic probably isn't helpful either so for the past three plus years I've just repeated the same cycle of recording, speaking to her, believing her promises only to end up watching her continue on that very same alcohol fuelled trajectory, and then repeat ad infinitum (ad nauseum?!).

Right now, honestly, and as a confident, intelligent and eloquent person who's always felt generally in control of my life and where it is heading, this is not only incredibly stressful but, actually, verging on terrifying because I simply don't know how I'm going to break that cycle as all the available options are as bad as each other so, somehow, and incredibly, the status quo seems best as much as I know that it isn't.

SparkleKitty

The accounting of drinks feels good because it feeds your illusion that you have any control over her behavior.

It really doesn’t serve you, or your kids.

SmallButMighty

Keeping track of how much an alcoholic drinks makes a codependent "feel good" the same way drinking makes an alcoholic "feel good".

The playing of drink tally, just like the physical consumption of alcohol are both just symptoms of the actual issues.

When we act as the sobriety cop or super bottle sleuth or do smell tests etc, we stay wrapped up in their chaos. I know this because I did it for many years. Once you stop doing it, and it is not easy, (it takes some time and effort to change our own ways) life actually gets a little more bearable.

Could you perhaps try not paying attention to her consumption for one night and see how that goes?

Bidgdrunner

Yeah, I certainly agree it doesn't serve much purpose, beyond helping reassure me that she actually does have a problem (because, believe it or not, even in the face of what she drinks, and even after almost five years of drinking and over three of recording, I still question that regularly), but not sure I've ever felt I've needed to have control. She's her own person, I don't think I'd ever feel comfortable controlling anyone else's behaviour, but I do accept I have tried, and it seems failed, through my deeds and my words and my notes to her, to influence (as opposed to control) her behaviour. The frustration that I've failed is significant though and I'm struggling to know how to break the cycle.

Bidgdrunner

Honestly, I think I'd find that very hard. My diary has certainly evolved over the years. From initally being a very clinical statement of what she drank and when, I wanted to start to write down as well how her drinking on any night made me feel, and that certainly made me feel better as it started to better record the effect it was having on me. And I do accept you're right, I really don't know what other good it actually does sneaking outside to look in the recycling and checking the fridge when she's in the toilet, other than to make me even more stressed than I already am.

That said, discussing the reasons why I'm doing it on here is in and of itself potentially helpful, so thank you for taking the time to read and reply.

Zevin

The accounting of drinks helps me remember, months later, that he hadn’t had “just a few beers” with friends or “2 or 3 small drams” during a Scotch “tasting” at his office.
So, I can understand keeping track of her alcohol intake. I tend to forget details like this. Always a HUGE eye-opener to go back and re-read some of my posts here on SR.

Bidgdrunner

Yeah, that's part of my rationale. It's now Saturday afternoon and I went out for a run to clear my head as running has really helped keep my sane. Anyway, she asked how long I'd be before I went (I said 45 mins, which I was) and she was in the same place on the sofa when I got back drinking the same glass of water, except for the fact that she was clearly drunk and had opened, drunk, disposed of and washed up after drinking a whole bottle of wine while I was out. Recording how utterly utterly miserable this makes me feel is, to me, and at least right now, important.

SparkleKitty

You can start by detaching from her when she is drinking -- physically, mentally, and emotionally. As an alcoholic breaks the cycle by putting down the drink, you can put down the diary and focus on you, and your kids, who have no choice in their living situation.

And I understand the instinct to resist the word "controlling," and to replace it with the softer "influencing." But I don't mean control in the selfishly manipulative, toying-with-people sense. I mean it in the sense of trying to manage your environment and the people in it to increase your own sense of safety and comfort. As a recovering codependent, I recognize this behavior. My intentions were always good when I was trying to control my environment, but in actuality I was engaging in extremely unhealthy behavior because I was scared I wouldn't get what I needed from people (or what I thought I needed).

In recovery, I have learned that the only person who can give me that sense of completeness, safety, and contentment is me. And once I stopped trying to get that stuff from people engaged in active addiction, life got a lot more managable, and the path forward clear. I could still love those people without having their destructive behavior front and center in my world.

Hawkeye13

Have you had a chance to read "Codependent No More" as I asked earlier Bid? That book will really offer you some insight into your own feelings and actions / reactions beyond the focus on her.

It sucks dealing with a sneaky drunk. I also sometimes hesitate to leave my home for even a few hours, and really stress about overnight, when I know the binge is going to start as soon as I am out of the driveway. Very upsetting.

dandylion

Bidg------again, SparkleKitty has taken the words out of my mouth---lol. I do wish to ditto them. Also, I can give you some suggestion on how to "break the cycle"---in more distilled, concrete terms.

Get more direct help and support for yourself. Preferably, face to face.
Get help for your children---as they are the ones that will be affected the most. in the big picture. They are in the midst of profound development---especially at their current ages.
Move to a different home---taking the children with you---under your supervision

There is plenty room---and, plenty of williness----to discuss the above Major moves---the moves that will have the most impact---in much more nuance, We can help support you in the nuance,
The longer you stay static in your comfort zone of the status-quo, the more damage is being done. The more unintended consequences will come to pass----more for the children than anyone else.

It is so important to have a williness to be willing to make changes---even, uncomfortable changes---if one is ever to change their circumstances or life.
lol---I don't make the Laws---I just report them to the best of my ability.