Need help sorting out boundaries
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 24
Need help sorting out boundaries
So, my alcoholic fiance is nearing the end of his 30 day inpatient stay at a recovery center. We've been in communication a few times a week and we've also had weekly family therapy sessions - including his mom and primary therapist.
Today, we focused on boundaries for when he returns home - we live together.
For our next session, his therapist asked that I have my list of boundaries and/or self care ready to share in the session.
Before he went to treatment, he was in denial about drinking and I had asked him to leave the apartment many times, and he wouldn't. So, I eventually ended up being the one to leave. With this experience, it's hard for me to come up with boundaries other than - No drinking, no lying. If you drink or lie, you must leave.
We love each other deeply and I am certainly invested in supporting his recovery from my lane, as long as he does the work.
So, after giving this some more thought, I came up with a list of boundaries. I will list them below.
Has anyone experienced boundaries with an alcoholic loved one in recovery, at home, after treatment? I welcome any insight, input, or feedback on this!
Today, we focused on boundaries for when he returns home - we live together.
For our next session, his therapist asked that I have my list of boundaries and/or self care ready to share in the session.
Before he went to treatment, he was in denial about drinking and I had asked him to leave the apartment many times, and he wouldn't. So, I eventually ended up being the one to leave. With this experience, it's hard for me to come up with boundaries other than - No drinking, no lying. If you drink or lie, you must leave.
We love each other deeply and I am certainly invested in supporting his recovery from my lane, as long as he does the work.
So, after giving this some more thought, I came up with a list of boundaries. I will list them below.
Has anyone experienced boundaries with an alcoholic loved one in recovery, at home, after treatment? I welcome any insight, input, or feedback on this!
- AF will be honest with me about cravings, anxious feelings, depressed feelings.
- AF will seek support through his sponsor, a friend, or loved one when struggling.
- AF will attend his regular individual therapy and his group sessions. (outpatient program)
- If AF has a relapse, he will be honest and not hide it.
- If AF displays symptoms/behaviors of drinking, he will seek support. If he does not, he must leave the apartment. He will go somewhere safe (friend or loved one’s house?)
- AF may not drive a vehicle if he displays symptoms/behaviors of drinking.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
How are you realistically going to "enforce" these things?
Boundaries are about You, not Him.
That whole list is telling Him what to do.
Your boundaries would be something like, "If you drink, I will leave permanently." (if you mean that.)
"If you drink, I will _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ," (move to my mother's and break the lease, or something similar.)
Try a different list that doesn't tell/ask him to do anything.
"I will not live with or marry someone who drinks."
You can't really use, "If it seems like you have drank," (i.e. symptoms/behaviors.) or "Lying." Everyone lies. Yes, you do too. Appearing to drink is not really a thing. Either he does and you are aware of it or you aren't.
His feelings about his alcohol problem don't need to be your business. Prying and/or asking him to tell you about his cravings, anxiety, depression or whatever is really intrusive, IMO. I mean, if he wants to talk, great. You don't get to mandate it.
Boundaries are about You, not Him.
That whole list is telling Him what to do.
Your boundaries would be something like, "If you drink, I will leave permanently." (if you mean that.)
"If you drink, I will _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ," (move to my mother's and break the lease, or something similar.)
Try a different list that doesn't tell/ask him to do anything.
"I will not live with or marry someone who drinks."
You can't really use, "If it seems like you have drank," (i.e. symptoms/behaviors.) or "Lying." Everyone lies. Yes, you do too. Appearing to drink is not really a thing. Either he does and you are aware of it or you aren't.
His feelings about his alcohol problem don't need to be your business. Prying and/or asking him to tell you about his cravings, anxiety, depression or whatever is really intrusive, IMO. I mean, if he wants to talk, great. You don't get to mandate it.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
hi Strength,
this is really a list about expectations of what he will or will not do. which you cannot control.
when i draw boundaries, they relate to me and my physical and emotional space, and what i will or will not accept. they are about limits for me by me.
so they might be things like: i will not give anyone the car keys.
if AF is drinking, i will not engage and go into a different space.
if AF relapses, i will....
boundaries are about you and the things you CAN control.
this is really a list about expectations of what he will or will not do. which you cannot control.
when i draw boundaries, they relate to me and my physical and emotional space, and what i will or will not accept. they are about limits for me by me.
so they might be things like: i will not give anyone the car keys.
if AF is drinking, i will not engage and go into a different space.
if AF relapses, i will....
boundaries are about you and the things you CAN control.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 24
Thanks for the feedback. I agree that boundaries should be things that I CAN control, and I struggled with this preliminary list.
However, these were the types of things the therapist has brought up in our sessions and seems to be guiding me in this direction.
AF himself has talked a lot about the need for honesty and transparency with with me in his recovery.
So, I was a little confused when I was trying to start my list - agree that this list seems like demands and not expectations.
On a side note, therapist even agreed that HE needs to be the one to leave the apartment if he is lying or relapses. My name is on the lease. So, if I ask him to leave and he doesn't, then she suggested I call the police. Obviously we don't want it to get to that, but these are the type of conversations going on with in our family therapy sessions.
However, these were the types of things the therapist has brought up in our sessions and seems to be guiding me in this direction.
AF himself has talked a lot about the need for honesty and transparency with with me in his recovery.
So, I was a little confused when I was trying to start my list - agree that this list seems like demands and not expectations.
On a side note, therapist even agreed that HE needs to be the one to leave the apartment if he is lying or relapses. My name is on the lease. So, if I ask him to leave and he doesn't, then she suggested I call the police. Obviously we don't want it to get to that, but these are the type of conversations going on with in our family therapy sessions.
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
Here are some ways you can build boundaries from your rules and expectations:
- Boundary: "I will not live with someone who lies to me."
- Rule: AF will be honest with me about cravings, anxious feelings, depressed feelings.
- Rule: If AF has a relapse, he will be honest and not hide it.
- Boundary: "I will not live with an alcoholic who is not actively participating in their own recovery."
- Rule: AF will seek support through his sponsor, a friend, or loved one when struggling.
- Rule: RAF will attend his regular individual therapy and his group sessions. (outpatient program)
- Boundary: "I will not live with someone who is engaged with their addiction. I will go to whatever lengths are necessary to remove someone from my home who is active in their addiction."
- Rule: If AF displays symptoms/behaviors of drinking, he will seek support. If he does not, he must leave the apartment. He will go somewhere safe (friend or loved one’s house?)
- Boundary: "I will not be in a vehicle with a driver who has been drinking, or whom I believe has been drinking."
- Rule: AF may not drive a vehicle if he displays symptoms/behaviors of drinking.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
Probably more to the point is:
1. What can you control? (that would be your behavior, actions)
2. You'll need to pin down how serious you are about all of the things on the list before you say them. If you waver on them, he'll learn that all negotiations are then on the table and that you're not serious.
3. My suggestion for you leaving come from my past experience with alcoholics and their erratic behavior. So, I wouldn't put, "calling the police" on my personal list, because I've had a man knock the phone out of my hand and I've also had a man stand by the door and not let me leave. So my beliefs are centered around safety.
With that said, I don't think I'd tell him I would call the police. I would slip quietly out and leave, because that would be the end of our relationship and I would be getting out. Calling the police would come after I was gone, and yes - I would call the police if he was in any way violent or abusively drunk - but calling them escalates the danger and his anger.
Just as my experience, the police won't make him leave if he's not being abusive. If he's established residency (at least in my state) by receiving mail or having a key, I can't just Tell him to leave, I have to go through legal eviction. So in my case, I would leave and then start that process of either evicting him or breaking the lease, whichever is cheaper or easier. If you think your alcoholic is reasonable - just try telling him "no" and see how that goes...I hope for your sake that he is reasonable but things get very dicey when they know you're serious and that a breakup might actually happen, so safety is foremost.
1. What can you control? (that would be your behavior, actions)
2. You'll need to pin down how serious you are about all of the things on the list before you say them. If you waver on them, he'll learn that all negotiations are then on the table and that you're not serious.
3. My suggestion for you leaving come from my past experience with alcoholics and their erratic behavior. So, I wouldn't put, "calling the police" on my personal list, because I've had a man knock the phone out of my hand and I've also had a man stand by the door and not let me leave. So my beliefs are centered around safety.
With that said, I don't think I'd tell him I would call the police. I would slip quietly out and leave, because that would be the end of our relationship and I would be getting out. Calling the police would come after I was gone, and yes - I would call the police if he was in any way violent or abusively drunk - but calling them escalates the danger and his anger.
Just as my experience, the police won't make him leave if he's not being abusive. If he's established residency (at least in my state) by receiving mail or having a key, I can't just Tell him to leave, I have to go through legal eviction. So in my case, I would leave and then start that process of either evicting him or breaking the lease, whichever is cheaper or easier. If you think your alcoholic is reasonable - just try telling him "no" and see how that goes...I hope for your sake that he is reasonable but things get very dicey when they know you're serious and that a breakup might actually happen, so safety is foremost.
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Join Date: Jul 2020
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[QUOTE=Strength28;7489896
However, these were the types of things the therapist has brought up in our sessions and seems to be guiding me in this direction.
[/QUOTE]
This therapist might be fantastic - but my question, is he or she in recovery? Because it seems like an important requirement to be one when giving advice relating to an addict.
I would have one boundary / requirement - No drinking, whatsoever - period. Otherwise, one of us leaves.
Everything else will work itself out in time or with the aid of a professional who knows the road. Sobriety for someone who has never been sober, is not unlike a baby. Everything is new - again. You're going to need to be exceptionally patient and understanding. And honest with yourself about how much you can really stand. It's not going to be easy - and that's just the downright honest truth.
That's my take.
However, these were the types of things the therapist has brought up in our sessions and seems to be guiding me in this direction.
[/QUOTE]
This therapist might be fantastic - but my question, is he or she in recovery? Because it seems like an important requirement to be one when giving advice relating to an addict.
I would have one boundary / requirement - No drinking, whatsoever - period. Otherwise, one of us leaves.
Everything else will work itself out in time or with the aid of a professional who knows the road. Sobriety for someone who has never been sober, is not unlike a baby. Everything is new - again. You're going to need to be exceptionally patient and understanding. And honest with yourself about how much you can really stand. It's not going to be easy - and that's just the downright honest truth.
That's my take.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Strength-----I would like to underline what bimminiblue said about calling the police. They will not just force a person to leave the apartment if there is no abuse---as they have established residence, even if their name is not on the lease. It requires you to go through the legal eviction process.
And---it is imperative that you actually mean what you say---otherwise, your credibility is shot. Your words will ring hollow, in the future. Remember if you do actually leave---you should leave because it is the best thing for yourself---not a maneuver to scare him or teach him a lesson. That would just be a manipulation---and, it won;t stop his alcoholism if he doesn't want to for himself.
In some rehab centers, they do a thing called a "contract"----which both parties agree to and sign their names to it. It goes something like this---"If alcoholic drinks---he agrees that he will leave without hesitation". or "If alcoholic relapses I (you) will leave". It is whatever the two of you agree on as the terms of your living together".
Another point----you do not have to announce your own boundaries to anyone else, unless you want to. Your own boundaries are between you and You. Since they are to protect you, you are entitled to exercise them any time you judge that you need/want to.
You can also change your boundaries any time you decide that you need/want to. After all, boundaries belong to you. There are times when our minds change or our needs change.
And---it is imperative that you actually mean what you say---otherwise, your credibility is shot. Your words will ring hollow, in the future. Remember if you do actually leave---you should leave because it is the best thing for yourself---not a maneuver to scare him or teach him a lesson. That would just be a manipulation---and, it won;t stop his alcoholism if he doesn't want to for himself.
In some rehab centers, they do a thing called a "contract"----which both parties agree to and sign their names to it. It goes something like this---"If alcoholic drinks---he agrees that he will leave without hesitation". or "If alcoholic relapses I (you) will leave". It is whatever the two of you agree on as the terms of your living together".
Another point----you do not have to announce your own boundaries to anyone else, unless you want to. Your own boundaries are between you and You. Since they are to protect you, you are entitled to exercise them any time you judge that you need/want to.
You can also change your boundaries any time you decide that you need/want to. After all, boundaries belong to you. There are times when our minds change or our needs change.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Strrength----I forgot another point---lol. Although I have not had an alcoholic partner, I am familiar with what alcoholics are like in early recovery. Yes, each personality is unique, but, in general terms, be prepared that their personality may be different than what you want or expect. Sometimes, very different.
I think it is a good idea to give him a very wide berth. Keep yourself busy with your own activities, as much as possible---because if he is really following his program---it can take up a lot of his time and emotional energy.
lol---don't expect that he will rush into your arms and apologize for all the grief that his alcoholism has caused you and proceed to make it all up to you for being there for him. That rarely happens in early recovery, and, if it does---it will probably be short lived.
Your best bet is to stay nose-dived into your own recovery. The couples that do work out, after recovery, seem to be the ones where both parties are working on their own recovery, simultaneously, as if their lives depend on it.
I think it is a good idea to give him a very wide berth. Keep yourself busy with your own activities, as much as possible---because if he is really following his program---it can take up a lot of his time and emotional energy.
lol---don't expect that he will rush into your arms and apologize for all the grief that his alcoholism has caused you and proceed to make it all up to you for being there for him. That rarely happens in early recovery, and, if it does---it will probably be short lived.
Your best bet is to stay nose-dived into your own recovery. The couples that do work out, after recovery, seem to be the ones where both parties are working on their own recovery, simultaneously, as if their lives depend on it.
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: The Beach
Posts: 1,106
As others said, you listed rules for him not boundaries for you. It took me a while to figure out the difference as well. This is how *I* would reword your list into boundaries rather than rules...
Your list was,
My list...
(1) I need my partner to be honest with me about his feelings or this relationship can not proceed
(2&3) I need to know my partner is actively seeking recovery in all ways available to him
(4) I will not accept dishonesty from my partner, a relationship without trust is not worth having
(5)I will trust my instincts, if I feel my partner has been drinking or dishonest I will... *insert whatever you promised yourself you'll do* (kick him out, leave, whatever else)
(6)If I suspect partner of drinking I will withhold keys/vehicle, if he drives anyway I'll call the police
I hope your fiance has turned a corner and is truly seeking recovery. What a gift that would be for both of you. No matter what though, you will be best served by learning to erect and maintain your boundaries. It's the best way to look after yourself. It takes a little practice but it's well worth it. My very first boundary ( that I was consciously aware of) was, " I will not engage with him when he has been drinking", it served me well.
Your list was,
- AF will be honest with me about cravings, anxious feelings, depressed feelings
- AF will seek support through his sponsor, a friend, or loved one when struggling.
- AF will attend his regular individual therapy and his group sessions. (outpatient program)
If AF has a relapse, he will be honest and not hide it. - If AF displays symptoms/behaviors of drinking, he will seek support. If he does not, he must leave the apartment. He will go somewhere safe (friend or loved one’s house?
- AF may not drive a vehicle if he displays symptoms/behaviors of drinking.
My list...
(1) I need my partner to be honest with me about his feelings or this relationship can not proceed
(2&3) I need to know my partner is actively seeking recovery in all ways available to him
(4) I will not accept dishonesty from my partner, a relationship without trust is not worth having
(5)I will trust my instincts, if I feel my partner has been drinking or dishonest I will... *insert whatever you promised yourself you'll do* (kick him out, leave, whatever else)
(6)If I suspect partner of drinking I will withhold keys/vehicle, if he drives anyway I'll call the police
I hope your fiance has turned a corner and is truly seeking recovery. What a gift that would be for both of you. No matter what though, you will be best served by learning to erect and maintain your boundaries. It's the best way to look after yourself. It takes a little practice but it's well worth it. My very first boundary ( that I was consciously aware of) was, " I will not engage with him when he has been drinking", it served me well.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 24
Originally Posted by dandylion 
Strrength----I forgot another point---lol. Although I have not had an alcoholic partner, I am familiar with what alcoholics are like in early recovery. Yes, each personality is unique, but, in general terms, be prepared that their personality may be different than what you want or expect. Sometimes, very different.
I think it is a good idea to give him a very wide berth. Keep yourself busy with your own activities, as much as possible---because if he is really following his program---it can take up a lot of his time and emotional energy.
lol---don't expect that he will rush into your arms and apologize for all the grief that his alcoholism has caused you and proceed to make it all up to you for being there for him. That rarely happens in early recovery, and, if it does---it will probably be short lived.
Your best bet is to stay nose-dived into your own recovery. The couples that do work out, after recovery, seem to be the ones where both parties are working on their own recovery, simultaneously, as if their lives depend on it.
I think it is a good idea to give him a very wide berth. Keep yourself busy with your own activities, as much as possible---because if he is really following his program---it can take up a lot of his time and emotional energy.
lol---don't expect that he will rush into your arms and apologize for all the grief that his alcoholism has caused you and proceed to make it all up to you for being there for him. That rarely happens in early recovery, and, if it does---it will probably be short lived.
Your best bet is to stay nose-dived into your own recovery. The couples that do work out, after recovery, seem to be the ones where both parties are working on their own recovery, simultaneously, as if their lives depend on it.
Yes, I am fortunate that I will be very busy and distracted soon - and that is my plan! I am a 1st grade teacher and will be back to work soon preparing for an unprecedented 100% virtual learning platform- a whole other crazy aspect of my life right now - but certainly manageable and controllable for me.
So, I will have plenty to keep me busy as he works his outpatient program. At this point, I believe he will be doing several weeks of a "partial hospitalization program" which I understand is 5 hours per day of sessions. I am happy for that.
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Join Date: Jul 2020
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Originally Posted by Strength28
So, I was a little confused when I was trying to start my list - agree that this list seems like demands and not expectations.
Thanks you all for helping me reward them into I-statements!
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