SparkleKitty

Sleepyhollow, your posts are fantastic at any length, but it would be awesome if you could double-space between paragraphs to make them easier to read.

schnappi99

I would say yes, developing boundaries is a part of Alanon. Its not a definite thing to check off, but in learning about your own character and what you need and the right care of self and others involved, boundaries are developed. With addiction in play, your kids are affected- their "normal" has been warped. The family tends to get sick around an addict until and unless they develop their own recovery.

Perhaps you have been an example of the strung out, angry and frustrated spouse. I sure was, it became clear to me that I needed to transform and be the counter-example. I think the future of your marriage will likely be unclear for some time. I know quite a few folks in Alanon who have stayed with their alcoholic or addict spouses, and many who have not. Our marriage is cordial now- there no particular intimacy of any kind- but now we can be kind and respectful, sometimes open though my wife tends to clam up and shut down when it comes to emotional & spiritual topics. So maybe thats the best it can be, hard to tell- I'm in to be present and do the work of husband and father. Our daughter is 14, I have modelled the angry father quite enough, now I want to model a man in recovery.

I think if you seek and find an Alanon group that works for you, find another man to be a sponsor and do the program work that you'll feel a lot better, and be a much better father for it.

I tried the Beatty books, they didn't have the traction in my head that Alanon and AA have. My sponsor is a "double-winner", meaning he is in Alanon and in AA (also an alcoholic), he asked me to also go to open AA meetings, and boy did I learn some stuff about my own character and behavior. The Big Book and AA 12-and-12 are amazing, given my character and tendencies I sometimes wonder how I avoided being an alcoholic... but booze was never more than fun and a hangover for me, go figure.

CoachP

I don't mind the long posts at all. I actually appreciate them. We have such parallel lives. Same household growing up as you. Controlling mom, passive father, no expressions of love or affection. It took me YEARS to be able to hold hands in public. I think I have emotionally checked out on the marriage. Maybe that will change once she returns, but I'm not hopeful in that. Scared of the guilt if we end up splitting down the road and she is sober. Helps to hear you feel liberated in your life and new you. Gives me hope. I am people pleaser, much like you. So the current version of me is one people like. I don't like me, but any of the successes I have in life, professionally and in friendships, is because of the person I am currently. Fearful to change that simply because of the love relationship I find myself in. Resisting change I often fantasize that I would be OK alone. Not sure thats true, but I can wish it so that I don't have to change me. Rather than fool myself, I am taking your advice, and the advice of others here, to read the Codependent No More book and seek some counseling. This current lifestyle IS probably killing me slowly. I had no idea the toll the addiction of a loved one can have on their partner. I thought i was handling it 🙂 Silly me. Thanks again for reaching out to me. Truly appreciate you.

CoachP

Had my second phone call tonight from AW in rehab. Disappointing. After pleasantries of "how are things going?" started running the house from rehab: call to get our daughter a haircut, make sure i contact youth pastor about fundraising for our youngest son's mission trip, on and on. Then got upset when I shared I found this forum and began reading the Copendency book to make myself a better person upon her return. She warned me not to fall for any females in the forum! I explained how thats impossible but she left the conversation worried I was moving on. Probably a normal reaction for someone in rehab; to loose their significant other? But very disappointing she is still not focused on her own recovery. Bummer. Hoping the tide changes.

Maddoxcruz

Coach I know you gave me some advice and I thank you for that. What really helped me was realizing where my issues were. I learned why I attracted my bf. Therapy is always a good first step. And even trying to talk about it with a non biased person.

SmallButMighty

It is still very early in your wife's "recovery". You can't expect big changes yet.It will take months for the brain fog to clear and can take up to two years for her brain to be functioning normally again.( That's assuming she stays sober) She is still in the addict head space that everything revolves around her. She doesn't want to face her situation so she's trying to maintain control of the home from afar, and she's concerned about you getting help and changing. She's being manipulative making you defend yourself against something you didn't and don't have any intention of doing... she very well might use her "jealousy" as a weapon, asking you not to go to meetings or chat online...not because she's actually worried you will cheat, but because she doesn't want you to gain back your strength. Addicts HATE when their dynamic changes. She is used to you behaving a certain way and she doesn't want that to change. She may say you going to alanon makes her want to drink etc, don't fall for it! Nothing you say or do will make or break her sobriety, that's a her thing, not a you thing.

You getting help, whatever that looks like to you, for your codependency issues is not about her. Addicts have a way of making EVERYTHING about them, and often we play along, sometimes for decades. I hope you decide to keep focusing on yourself. You can't determine what she does about her own recovery, but you have ultimate control for what you do about your own. Please focus on honoring your self.

schnappi99

My sponsor was once talking about his own alcoholism and reactions, and said you can really see the action of the sickness when you tell an addict "No". Interestingly enough, being told No on topics I was focussed on had a tendency to really wind me up to push harder. So I had to learn to let go of many things I had been holding onto for many years that I wasn't even aware I was. One of those things was my wife's business, both recovery and personal. That means listening to her and not offering anything other than an ear. One big win for Alanon is you have as large a group of friends and acquaintances as you choose to have to talk with about this stuff; emotional, spiritual, physical well-being, intimacy, development. It is not recommended to start sharing your stuff with the qualifier, certainly not early on. Its a different case entirely later if (when) both of you have established programs of some kind and the air is clearer.

Sitting down face-to-face with somebody in program and telling them your fear and hurt, then listening to them share theirs, and how the program has helped them is a profoundly liberating experience. Getting this stuff out of the echo chamber of your mind is very important. In my case I had to do a lot of skills development in expressing myself before I could start to share- Alanon can help do that too. AA has taught people to read and write, to help them work their program.

From an AA/Alanon standpoint it is recommended to work with someone of your gender at least at first. There are a few women in Alanon and AA that I share with freely, it took a while to establish a suitable rapport. There are others in both programs with whom I stay on-script and keep things very general, for my own peace of mind if nothing else. I've spent time with a shrink too- the detailed professional introspection really helped at lot- I would highly recommend it.

trailmix

Well, codependency isn't just for non- alcoholics, everyone can join in!

Perhaps when you next see her you might give her a copy of the book as well? Perhaps it is also something they will touch on in rehab. I hope so.

CoachP

Thanks Mighty. I do try to stay focused on my own growth and recovery. I greatly appreciate the words of encouragement. I hear what you are saying and I know that it is true. Here I was, " man of the house", but in control of nothing. I did finally begin to see that I was being controlled by her alcoholism: and it was exhausting. I drove 3 hours round trip today to drop off cigarettes and more shorts to her while she's in rehab. Still codependent. At least I'm aware: first step, recognize the problem. Thanks again for your support!

CoachP

So true trailmix! Already suggested it to my sister and will definitely encourage my wife to read it: depending on her therapy focus. She certainly fits the mold. Schappi, I cant get in touch with my local alanon group to find out, if, and how, they are meeting. The church they use is closed and I get through. The national site professes not be able to keep with all the changes a the local level. Any ideas? Sounds like you are very knowledgeable and experienced. I truly appreciate you both reaching out and supporting me.

Bernadette

Hey Coach--
Welcome - glad you found this place.

Just wanted to share, any time I brought up AlAnon with my middle A bro during his bouts of sobriety and stabs at recovery, he would tense up, he would sort of act interested or respectful..but it was never a "good" or positive conversation. Then when he'd start drinking again or if he was angry about something he would bring up my "AlAnon bullsh*t" and try to twist everything I say into his idea that I was some sort of parrot for AlAnon talk, and that AlAnon was just a pack of judgmental phonies, etc etc etc.

Clearly he's never attended an AlAnon meeting! (which is too bad since our Father was an alcoholic and we have 2 more alcoholic brothers!).

On the other hand, my friends who are genuinely recovered, which is a state of being that is recognizable and sustained, speak freely about their own struggles and recovery and listen with genuine interest and respect if I mention something I learned in AlAnon.

All that to say: my experiences in AlAnon are my own, and have sustained me through so much strife with the A members of my family, and have taught me so many lessons that have allowed me to grow as a person!

Unfortunately the alcoholic will use any ammunition that you give them against you to score points for Team Alcohol. They have to keep the dynamic in place that lets them always be the aggrieved party, and keep you (their "loved one!!!") off-balance, defensive, and insecure.

There is a difference between privacy and secrecy. It is no secret that I go to AlAnon, I do not hide it and I am not ashamed of it. And I freely discuss it with people I can trust. But I decided that what I learn there, and how it empowers me and how I choose to apply it to my life is private, beautiful, and just for me, and certainly I gain nothing at all by sharing it with an A!! The way AlAnon has helped me with the As in my life is by giving me tools to change my own behavior. I don't have to "talk about AlAnon" I benefit by walking the talk.

One way, for me, of walking the talk is that my boundaries are for me. People have every right to behave how they choose. If they violate my boundary, well then it's my choice how to react. If I have decided my boundary is: if my brothers start drinking then I will leave - well then that's what I do. No proclamations, no threats, no drama. Just, "Gotta go byeeeeeeee!"

Def tougher with a spouse that expects to live with you. It'd be great for you and the kids if she could go to a Sober living house for 6 months post-rehab.

Peace,
B.

P.S. AlaTeen is also a great organization and outlet for young people with A mothers and fathers. Sickness thrives in secrecy. I know I internalized a lot of shame as a kid and always wish someone had just brought me to AlaTeen meetings, told me none of this was my fault, that I could still love my Dad and he still loved me, but that alcoholism causes a lot problems in family relationships so I should get educated and get some tools!!

CoachP

Thanks B! I guess I misunderstood Alateen. I thought it was for teens recovering from addiction or who have friends addicted to drugs or alcohol. More of a "Say no to drugs" kind of thing. Didnt realize it could help them talk through their thoughts about having an alcoholic mother. Something to look in to. Thank you!

Bernadette

A helpful link:
AlAnon/AlaTeen Meetings Worldwide

Peace,
B.

CoachP

Thank you for reaching out Burnadette. I dont usually make "rash" decions so I will certainly give it time. I try hard to make sure everyone in the family is living their best life possible. I'm finding out I didnt exactly include myself in that plan. I am working to figure that out for myself. My wife is is a beautiful person, inside and out. I guess I'm speaking here out of fear once she is released from rehab. Really scared of finding out who the person will be that walks through that door. And I can't definitley say who the person i will be sitting here waiting for her. Time will tell....

schnappi99

Our local Alanon meetings are zoom, some churches are only now talking about opening up in a limited way. We will be online for a while yet I think. The telephone meetings are different than the usual local meetings now on zoom, I know a few people who use them. Sometimes the telephone meetings can be very large, which might or might not be attractive to you. I would expect their zoom (or other videoconference) list will be incomplete, our local meetings moved pretty much en-mass to zoom and we published the lists among each other. Our zoom meetings are about the same size as the in-person forms before the pandemic, but each meeting is a little different- the recommendation is to try a bunch, see which you like. There is no need to identify yourself or turn on video, but all are welcome to do both. There are a few people in my homegroup that call in via zoom from their car because thats the only privacy and escape from the addict that they have.

One of my most treasured experiences was listening to a panel of alateens in an Alanon conference talking about what it was like growing up in a house w/ addiction and no recovery, and how things have changed in recovery- in many cases their addicted parent is still using. Its an especially scary and painful situation for the kids to be in; powerless and hearing the parents fight and argue downstairs again and again- the kids see it ALL no matter how well you think you may have kept them from it. The addiction happened in their faces, so must the recovery.

The alanon organization operates Alateen. In my area, some alateen meetings take place in schools- which is a very delicate arrangement. Some kids have no other place to talk about these things safely.