Why can’t he just go over the edge? Hear me out plz
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 298
Why can’t he just go over the edge? Hear me out plz
A lot of the A’s described in these posts are “off the rails”, but as painful as it is for you guys, it seems like it draws a clear line and makes it obvious that you must skedaddle. The trajectory of my AH is like molasses. He is filled with contempt for me, and narcissism, but he currently drinks only “2 a day” (but they’re strong so it’s more like 3-4). Just enough for him to pick fights and be more nasty and passive aggressive than usual. It’s actually reduced from what it once was because I said I’d had enough. But he will not be fired, won’t ever get a DUI, won’t have a drunken fall and crack his head open and end up in the ER. He probably won’t even have a health crisis. Forgive me, but I just wish something like these would happen, to give me no other option but to take the kids and go.
luring sobriety this way with my lucky charm
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: California
Posts: 738
Well, you still have the option of leaving him. I saw the word "narcissism" in there, and I am wondering if your spouse is just mentally or emotionally abusive. I have progressively developed a drinking problem myself over the years, but back in my 20s I was actually the relatively-sober one in a six year relationship with someone who liked to take pills recreationally. "Recreationally" over time became a stretch, as he had his favorite pills and those made him more likely to exhibit the kind of behavior you describe - very narcissistic, mean, quarrelsome, emotionally abusive, verbally cruel.
I honestly knew the pills were a problem (flushed a bunch down a toilet one night and got chased down the sidewalk in my nightgown he was so filled with rage) BUT over the course of the relationship I decided that the pills themselves were not THE problem. They were A problem, a SYMPTOM of the problem, but not THE PROBLEM. Truth be told, even in his more sober periods, he was hyper-critical, argumentative and hot tempered, although he was definitely a much more loving and attentive partner generally speaking. Like Dr. Jeckel and Mr. Hyde. The perfect boyfriend then my worst nightmare.
My ex had issues from his childhood and an abusive father. He needed therapy of all kinds, and possibly medication. I finally left him saying I would only return if he agreed to go to counseling. I know you have children so that's different but I am making a suggestion to you that even if your partner is a high-functioning alcoholic who doesn't binge drink, and he will never "go off the rails" that he could probably still use some therapy and perhaps you should tell him so, because you deserve to be treated with kindness and respect as his wife.
I honestly knew the pills were a problem (flushed a bunch down a toilet one night and got chased down the sidewalk in my nightgown he was so filled with rage) BUT over the course of the relationship I decided that the pills themselves were not THE problem. They were A problem, a SYMPTOM of the problem, but not THE PROBLEM. Truth be told, even in his more sober periods, he was hyper-critical, argumentative and hot tempered, although he was definitely a much more loving and attentive partner generally speaking. Like Dr. Jeckel and Mr. Hyde. The perfect boyfriend then my worst nightmare.
My ex had issues from his childhood and an abusive father. He needed therapy of all kinds, and possibly medication. I finally left him saying I would only return if he agreed to go to counseling. I know you have children so that's different but I am making a suggestion to you that even if your partner is a high-functioning alcoholic who doesn't binge drink, and he will never "go off the rails" that he could probably still use some therapy and perhaps you should tell him so, because you deserve to be treated with kindness and respect as his wife.
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,870
A guy doesn't have to be a raging alcoholic for you to leave him. So maybe he doesn't drink as much as the next guy, but he's mean. He's a narcissist. He is emotionally abusive. Isn't that enough? Who are you trying to convince that you and your kids deserve better?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 194
I completely understand where you are coming from Pizza. My A is very high functioning and has been for many years. I hate it but feel like I don't really have any good reason to leave (other than being unhappy). I have also secretly wished for some big event that would allow me to leave without feeling so guilty. Yes, I know this is incredibly twisted thinking.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Pizza...….I think that Suki is on to something, in her post.
It looks to me like you live your life more by what other people think than what you think or feel yourself.
What you think or feel or need is just as important as what HE thinks, He is not your superior.
It is sad that you feel like it is o.k. for you and your children to live on (emotional) crumbs.....and just suck up the bad treatment.....because
"society" wants to see something more Dramatic in order to give you "permission" to leave the torment nd abuse behind.....Society does not live with him...you and the kids do.
Actually, all of the things that you wish would happen....don't worry---they will. It is just a matter of time, you know. The difference is that you will be even more worn down by then, and the children will have more years of damage under their belts. With kids...it may not seem that there is damage happening, because one can't always see it. It waits until they are grown to show the damage in their own relationships....
Think about it....in a round about way, you are blaming him because you are too afraid to leave....."If he could get worse quicker, I could leave"...….
It looks to me like you live your life more by what other people think than what you think or feel yourself.
What you think or feel or need is just as important as what HE thinks, He is not your superior.
It is sad that you feel like it is o.k. for you and your children to live on (emotional) crumbs.....and just suck up the bad treatment.....because
"society" wants to see something more Dramatic in order to give you "permission" to leave the torment nd abuse behind.....Society does not live with him...you and the kids do.
Actually, all of the things that you wish would happen....don't worry---they will. It is just a matter of time, you know. The difference is that you will be even more worn down by then, and the children will have more years of damage under their belts. With kids...it may not seem that there is damage happening, because one can't always see it. It waits until they are grown to show the damage in their own relationships....
Think about it....in a round about way, you are blaming him because you are too afraid to leave....."If he could get worse quicker, I could leave"...….
Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Christchurch, NZ
Posts: 517
From your description of 2 drinks a day (strong or otherwise) .... that does not sound like any genuine alcoholic I've ever met.
The defining characteristic of real alcoholism is an 'unquenchable thirst' like once you start, you drink till you pass out. Or the old saying "one is too many and a hundreds not enough"
I'd venture you have got yourself a simple ol nasty piece of work who just happens to drink regularly like a lot of people do.
If you are waiting around for the drinking to get completely out of hand so you can foist "alcoholism" in as the problem, then send him off to sober up and hope he turns over a new leaf ... I don't think that happy day is going to ever arrive.
The defining characteristic of real alcoholism is an 'unquenchable thirst' like once you start, you drink till you pass out. Or the old saying "one is too many and a hundreds not enough"
I'd venture you have got yourself a simple ol nasty piece of work who just happens to drink regularly like a lot of people do.
If you are waiting around for the drinking to get completely out of hand so you can foist "alcoholism" in as the problem, then send him off to sober up and hope he turns over a new leaf ... I don't think that happy day is going to ever arrive.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
I don't think the question is "why can't he just go over the edge" but rather "why is your own unhappiness not enough to make a change?"
When we are looking to others to make us happy or comfortable we rob ourselves of the gift of choice. I know leaving is not easy, but neither is living with someone who is "filled with contempt" for you and narcissistic. Wouldn't you BOTH be happier if you were out of this cycle of punishment?
When we are looking to others to make us happy or comfortable we rob ourselves of the gift of choice. I know leaving is not easy, but neither is living with someone who is "filled with contempt" for you and narcissistic. Wouldn't you BOTH be happier if you were out of this cycle of punishment?
Member
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 1
[QUOTE=suki44883;7403474]A guy doesn't have to be a raging alcoholic for you to leave him.
Pizza,
Certainly the reasons you mention and the events you kind of hope would occur so you'd feel you have the real excuse/reason to flee.. but why in Hades to you need that? if you're not happy and you want to go, then go. These last words my 4 year old daughter said to me as I was driving away (momentarily confused) from the house where we lived w/her father. He wasn't a drinker but he was very verbally abusive, a controller, autocrat and totally unfair and mean to me. I wasn't happy and was crying all the time..so finally one night as I lay down crying..a different internal voice (as i again blamed myself for the unrest) repeated over & over.. "what's wrong is you have to get AWAY from HIM". Period..enough said.. I did it...that was 32 years ago.. I'm still single..still have pain from the abuse at times but I'm free..free to think my own thoughts and be happy. Follow your heart sweet and strong woman..this is about you.. You can be there for him as a friend if you both choose.. Perhaps he'll get help and buckle down once he sees what he's lost.
Pizza,
Certainly the reasons you mention and the events you kind of hope would occur so you'd feel you have the real excuse/reason to flee.. but why in Hades to you need that? if you're not happy and you want to go, then go. These last words my 4 year old daughter said to me as I was driving away (momentarily confused) from the house where we lived w/her father. He wasn't a drinker but he was very verbally abusive, a controller, autocrat and totally unfair and mean to me. I wasn't happy and was crying all the time..so finally one night as I lay down crying..a different internal voice (as i again blamed myself for the unrest) repeated over & over.. "what's wrong is you have to get AWAY from HIM". Period..enough said.. I did it...that was 32 years ago.. I'm still single..still have pain from the abuse at times but I'm free..free to think my own thoughts and be happy. Follow your heart sweet and strong woman..this is about you.. You can be there for him as a friend if you both choose.. Perhaps he'll get help and buckle down once he sees what he's lost.
Forum Leader
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,944
Originally Posted by pizza67
Just enough for him to pick fights and be more nasty and passive aggressive than usual.
If this is how you want to live, then no, you don't have to do anything. If you want a better life, then I'm afraid *you* are the one who will have to change. If you wait around hoping that he will be better so you don't have to change---well, from all you have shared, it's going to be a long wait.
You deserve peace and joy, and you are the only one who can bring those things into your life. I'll never advise you to stay or go, but I hope that in time, clarity will come. And with it, peace. Hang in there!
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
If you read around the forum, you'll find that you're not alone in wanting that "line in the sand" so you can finally leave w/a clear conscience. An awful lot of us felt that same way. There are only 2 problems w/this:
1) The line becomes a moving target. "I always said I'd leave if he hit me, but he didn't really hit me, it was just a shove..." "I always said I'd leave if he cheated on me, but maybe I'm misunderstanding the texts I found on his phone..." And so the the line is never truly crossed, b/c we keep moving it to accommodate the A's behavior and our own level of fear.
2) Your conscience will almost certainly not be clear when you leave, no matter how long you wait. Most of us suffer doubts and remorse to at least some extent until we've been out of the situation long enough for the FOG to clear. This is a process, and it takes time, effort and space for it to happen.
As Seren said, if you want change in your life, you will have to be the driving force.
1) The line becomes a moving target. "I always said I'd leave if he hit me, but he didn't really hit me, it was just a shove..." "I always said I'd leave if he cheated on me, but maybe I'm misunderstanding the texts I found on his phone..." And so the the line is never truly crossed, b/c we keep moving it to accommodate the A's behavior and our own level of fear.
2) Your conscience will almost certainly not be clear when you leave, no matter how long you wait. Most of us suffer doubts and remorse to at least some extent until we've been out of the situation long enough for the FOG to clear. This is a process, and it takes time, effort and space for it to happen.
As Seren said, if you want change in your life, you will have to be the driving force.
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
Have you broken down the reasons why you can't bring yourself to leave? It might help to put them down on paper.
Night after night of low level abuse and fights are going to be very bad for your mental health and stress levels. It just wears you down steadily until your self-esteem is gone. That's why so many abused people stay in rotten marriages.
I don't think you're on this forum because you're willing to put up with this indefinitely.
Night after night of low level abuse and fights are going to be very bad for your mental health and stress levels. It just wears you down steadily until your self-esteem is gone. That's why so many abused people stay in rotten marriages.
I don't think you're on this forum because you're willing to put up with this indefinitely.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 298
Originally Posted by Derringer 
From your description of 2 drinks a day (strong or otherwise) .... that does not sound like any genuine alcoholic I've ever met.
The defining characteristic of real alcoholism is an 'unquenchable thirst' like once you start, you drink till you pass out. Or the old saying "one is too many and a hundreds not enough"
I'd venture you have got yourself a simple ol nasty piece of work who just happens to drink regularly like a lot of people do.
If you are waiting around for the drinking to get completely out of hand so you can foist "alcoholism" in as the problem, then send him off to sober up and hope he turns over a new leaf ... I don't think that happy day is going to ever arrive.
The defining characteristic of real alcoholism is an 'unquenchable thirst' like once you start, you drink till you pass out. Or the old saying "one is too many and a hundreds not enough"
I'd venture you have got yourself a simple ol nasty piece of work who just happens to drink regularly like a lot of people do.
If you are waiting around for the drinking to get completely out of hand so you can foist "alcoholism" in as the problem, then send him off to sober up and hope he turns over a new leaf ... I don't think that happy day is going to ever arrive.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
Originally Posted by pizza67
no he is DEF an A. Used to drink more and def will again
The label, the "reasons" for the drinking, the suspicion of other mental or emotional issues--none of that changes the facts. The only thing that matters is what you choose to do or not do.
Forum Leader
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,944
Over the years that I've been a member here, I have seen many F&FA spouses, boyfriends/girlfriends question themselves.
Is it bad enough?
Have I not given this person enough chances?
Am I being unfair?
Isn't love supposed to be unconditional? He/she has a disease, afterall!
We feel guilty if we decide to take an action in our own best interest, so we think we have to wait for some horrendous breach of trust to occur so we won't feel guilty for leaving. The alcoholics and addicts understand this intuitively and because it is reinforced that there will be no consequence to their manipulation. It is addiction's most powerful tool
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...rful-tool.html (Manipulation--Addiction's most powerful tool)
Is it bad enough?
Have I not given this person enough chances?
Am I being unfair?
Isn't love supposed to be unconditional? He/she has a disease, afterall!
We feel guilty if we decide to take an action in our own best interest, so we think we have to wait for some horrendous breach of trust to occur so we won't feel guilty for leaving. The alcoholics and addicts understand this intuitively and because it is reinforced that there will be no consequence to their manipulation. It is addiction's most powerful tool
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...rful-tool.html (Manipulation--Addiction's most powerful tool)
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,618
What you are doing is, effectively, giving up all the power you have in your life to him.
If he got run over by a beer truck I wouldn't be stuck here with him.
If he got a couple of DUI's he might go to jail, then I could leave!
If he just drank himself in to a mess and got taken to the hospital, then I could just walk out the door.
Notice all those start with "if he". What about you? Do you have zero say in what you do with your life? No control of it?
If not, that is perhaps where your focus should be? You are not part of him, conjoined at the hip. He is a grown man, he can look after himself.
If he got run over by a beer truck I wouldn't be stuck here with him.
If he got a couple of DUI's he might go to jail, then I could leave!
If he just drank himself in to a mess and got taken to the hospital, then I could just walk out the door.
Notice all those start with "if he". What about you? Do you have zero say in what you do with your life? No control of it?
If not, that is perhaps where your focus should be? You are not part of him, conjoined at the hip. He is a grown man, he can look after himself.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 356
My XRAH actually got sober when I confronted him (only because he was at a point that he felt he needed to quit himself) and went to rehab for 3 months. However from my perspective our relationship was too damaged I just didn’t quite realize it at the time (or maybe just didn’t want to see it). I had told him I would give him one last chance and he did what I asked him. So you can only imagine the guilt I felt after he got clean I I just couldn’t get past it. It took me a lot of counseling but my counselor more than once pointed out there doesn’t need to be reason per se to want out/get divorced other than your unhappiness. So my now ex got clean, that’s great. But my feeling just were gone beyond recovery. And that is all that mattered. How I felt about my ex and my marriage. Didn’t matter he wanted it to work and that he still loved me. Because none of that matters if you are no longer in love with your partner.
You don’t need any other reason to take your kids and get out other than you are not happy and you don’t see a way for that to get better. This goes for any marriage, not just when there is addiction involved. Marriage counseling with an active drinker is useless. Also, my guess is that he is drinking more than you know of be use that is usually how it works,
Are you doing any counseling for yourself ? My counselor never told me to get divorced or not get divorced but he just made me really think about it and played the devils advocated more than once, he just wanted to make sure that whatever decision I made that I was fully on board with that decision. This may sound weird but I credit him with my divorce. Without him I likely would’ve just stuck around because it would’ve seemed like the right thing to do because my ex did what I had asked him to. And that is codependency, putting others before your own needs. I did that for many years and I didn’t realize until later how unhappy I really was, I just kept up a happy front for everyone else. It is also very unhealthy for you. I wouldn’t have been able to get out of that codependent trap without my counselor.
And I get how you are feeling because I have had thoughts like that in the last as well. I think most of probably have.
You don’t need any other reason to take your kids and get out other than you are not happy and you don’t see a way for that to get better. This goes for any marriage, not just when there is addiction involved. Marriage counseling with an active drinker is useless. Also, my guess is that he is drinking more than you know of be use that is usually how it works,
Are you doing any counseling for yourself ? My counselor never told me to get divorced or not get divorced but he just made me really think about it and played the devils advocated more than once, he just wanted to make sure that whatever decision I made that I was fully on board with that decision. This may sound weird but I credit him with my divorce. Without him I likely would’ve just stuck around because it would’ve seemed like the right thing to do because my ex did what I had asked him to. And that is codependency, putting others before your own needs. I did that for many years and I didn’t realize until later how unhappy I really was, I just kept up a happy front for everyone else. It is also very unhealthy for you. I wouldn’t have been able to get out of that codependent trap without my counselor.
And I get how you are feeling because I have had thoughts like that in the last as well. I think most of probably have.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 471
If he was hit by a truck tomorrow and you were on your own, would the problem really go away?
Have you been in this sort of relationship before? Will you again?
I'm asking because I thought for a long time that for me, if the problem - AH - went away, I would be happy.
Nup. I would be alone with my issues - putting up with too much for fear of people not accepting me, making excuses for the behavior of others.
Set some boundaries around what you will tolerate and what you want, and stick to them.
Have you been in this sort of relationship before? Will you again?
I'm asking because I thought for a long time that for me, if the problem - AH - went away, I would be happy.
Nup. I would be alone with my issues - putting up with too much for fear of people not accepting me, making excuses for the behavior of others.
Set some boundaries around what you will tolerate and what you want, and stick to them.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
