trailmix

You can't. You may as well just talk to yourself, it will be more effective (and less stressful).

Although you think he is "delusional", he doesn't believe that and for arguments sake, let's say he does know, how does that change anything?

The best offense is a good defense (for him).

Do you notice the issue isn't the drinking all of a sudden, it's his behaviour, his complaining, his negativity, your behaviour, your relationship, how the children don't behave properly etc etc. That is called deflecting, as SparkleKitty mentioned.

Alcoholics want to protect their drinking (until THEY decide they don't), this is just one way of doing that, to take the heat off.

Not saying he is making all this up, I don't know and it doesn't matter, it's either him speaking or the effect of alcoholism, he may well actually believe every word he says - delusion. How do you think you can help him to see that?

Alcoholism is not just someone really enjoying alcohol. It is, generally, also a coping mechanism. It can be one for other mental issues, depression, anxiety, social anxiety, trauma from the past, only a specialist is qualified to determine that and help him, not you, not his Mom.

He needs help from professionals to support his recovery.

AA meetings will also help, speaking to others that have experienced alcoholism.

dandylion

Jamie...…..just a brief word about Deflection. I think it might help you to understand a bit more about what is happening.....
With alcoholics, two of the most used defenses are Denial and Deflection.
Denial is when they do not recognize that their drinking is causing negative effects for themselves or others.
****Deflection is when they try to put the spotlight on others to take attention away from themselves (and their drinking). This often takes the form of "blaming" others for everything!!! And, I do mean everything..lol...…
This puts responsibility for everything on other people's shoulders and none on theirs.
It sounds, to me, like your husband does this deflecting, a lot.
And, it is working for him....because he is driving you krazy by doing so. You are so busy trying to defend yourself.....that he gets by with everything.....

Around here, we call that kind of deflection that he does to you....."Quacking".....like that of a little duck...."quack...quack....quack...."
A bunch of vacant noise!
When he is accusing youof something that is totally incorrect and absurd.....try to picture im, in your mind, as a small quacking duck.

This will allow you to detach from him, emotionally, when he is verbally assaulting you.....
Remember not to JADE....and, that you don't have to attend to every fight or disagreement that you are invited to...…
And, you don't have to let him total run the show!

pizza67

Hopeworks

velma929

You ask as if it makes a difference. Why would it?

This is who he is right now. Your choice is whether you want to live with this or not. Whether his behavior is caused by alcohol or mental illness, it's outrageous. Either way you're not going to reason with him.

hopeful4

It took me a very long time to get past asking the "why" of it all, and looking at the psychology of it all. That being said, eventually I did come to realize it's actions and what's happening now. It really does not matter why. What matters is this is the reality and this is how it is.

Big hugs.

JamieLee

Okay, yes he must be a very big deflector.
So I'm willing to work with him if he's not drinking (which he's not) but I'm not sure how to get through this area of deflection. Originally I thought it was a big deal he needs to acknowledge that right off the bat, but now, I'm not sure that's possible. If his mind is still damaged by the addiction, then, I can't expect it to get back to baseline immediately. But I find it hard to deal with him telling me about all my problems? (I mean my big problem is I stayed with him and put up with his addiction and being a jerk. I see that problem now and need to make steps to correct my behavior for the future. But it seems he thinks I have a lot of problems and those aren't it.)
Sure I have problems, everyone has problems. But addiction is a very very big real problem. Also, I don't really put blame on him personally. I have blamed the alcohol as being such a horrible mind altering problem. So I don't even place a shameful blame on him- maybe I should if he wants to do it do me?

SparkleKitty

Jamie, you don't have to defend yourself against your husband's blaming to us. We get it.

As long as he is focusing on YOU, he doesn't have to focus on HIMSELF, which is the source of all that he perceives as his "problem." Just because he is not drinking does not mean he is in recovery. Recovery is a lot more than just sobriety. It's taking responsibility for one's behavior and choices and the consequences therein. All this blaming others has no place in an honest effort of recovery.

FeelingGreat

When someone is peppering you with observations about you, negative ones that is, you can use 'fogging' as a way of not engaging. You can agree 'yep I really stuffed that one up', or be neutral 'you could be right' or 'hmm I can see where you're coming from' and then go on with your day.

Seriously, people can't throw blame at you for very long when you just agree with them. Give it a try. Don't engage any more than that. After a few practice runs you might even enjoy yourself.

NYCDoglvr

Expectations screw up more relationships than practically anything else. If he's struggling to stay sober, try to support him instead of pointing out everything wrong. I understand your anger, but it's not helping. Have you tried Alanon?

PuzzledHeart

Chiming in late to the conversation... but a couple thoughts.

1) His family: His parents are going to be perfectly OK with his drinking because he satisfies their expectations of a son That They Have To Take Care Of. You are interacting with him as a husband and the father of your children. Two completely different roles with VERY different expectations of responsibility.

My own extended family had someone who physically and sexually abused anybody within striking distance. His own parents ignored his behavior until the state got involved and sent his siblings into the foster care system. EVEN then, they covered things up for him because the denial was that strong. He sent the mother of his child to the hospital, and it was the same story.

Needless to say, I keep my interactions with them to a minimum. Why clutter my mind with their chatter? You may want to employ the same tactic.

2) Him. He's in early recovery which means that he is very likely to be the absolute worst. His one coping mechanism is gone, and now he has to learn how to live like the rest of us schmucks.

The fact of the matter is, that if he keeps his focus on YOU, he will never get the chance to work on HIM. And that's what he needs to do in order to embrace sobriety. If he had cancer, you can't take his chemo for him. You can't suffer the side-effects for him. Unfortunately, I have had friends and family deal with the disease, but pretty much all of them accepted the treatment side effects because they wanted to live. Is your husband willing to accept the self-reflection he has to work through in order to be sober?

PS. And I can't help but think that all this problem-listing and expressed misery is his way of winding himself up so he can reach out for another drink again. I hope I'm wrong.

trailmix

Work with him? I think you keep coming back to the idea that somehow you can "fix" him and how he behaves. I say this kindly, but you don't really have that power or experience (as in you can't help him with his personality issues, whether they are caused by him being sober without any steps to recovery or whether they are ingrained). These things require professional help.

The only thing you can change is how you react. Now, the only way to react in a better way (for you) is to detach emotionally. If you stay so engaged emotionally you will continue to get hurt.

- Accept you cannot fix him or change him.
- Detach emotionally so he cannot hurt you further.

Now, you don't HAVE to do that, but what is your other option?

You can't win this fight, this argument about how "awful" you are, he believes whatever he believes. He's not budging. You just have to accept that. With recovery his viewpoint might change, it might not, you just don't know what's going on with him. However you don't have to listen to it, that is within your power.

Or, you can continue to try and come up with ways that you think will change his mindset. Reword things, act differently, try to reason with him, yell louder than he is and stress yourself out. For nothing.

Recovery is about him, not about you, just like his Alcoholism is about him, not you.

Detach.

trailmix

One other thing, between the detox and the one week in rehab and now home, he hasn't even been sober 3 weeks yet.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this or if you know, recovery takes months and months if not years. Between the brain and the rest of the body recovering, then the alcoholic seeking help through AA or therapy or both to deal with the root causes of the alcoholism.

If he has been drinking the whole time you have been married, you don't even know him sober?

This is not a get sober turn in to a great guy thing, recovery is a big, takes time - thing.

I recommend you read a bit in the newcomers to recovery forum to get an idea about how it is.

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...mers-recovery/

velma929

As a recovering Codie, I can say it worked the same on my side of the street. As long as I focused on my qualifier's drinking, I didn't have to think about my life, plan my next move, work on my coping skills. For many years, I engaged in 'if only' thinking: If only he'd quit drinking, everything would be fine.

FallenAngelina

This is a question from someone who is not working her own recovery/wellness/mental health program. Are you involved in a total makeover program, yourself?