Not sure where to go from here
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: San Diego, CA
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Not sure where to go from here
So I’m currently separated from AH and I haven’t turned the divorce papers in yet. We decided (I decided) to give it a trial 6 month separation period. So far so good and life is pretty peaceful at home. The problem is that AH continues to contact me constantly. Yesterday he came by the house to show us his new car and to see the kids. He helped out around the house and showed real remorse. He’s sober and working on his sobriety (going to AA, meeting with his sponsor/therapist). He got very emotional talking about how regretful he was. I emphasized that actions speak louder than words and left it at that. We hugged in the end. Right now,I’m feeling kind of in limbo. I don’t want to kick him while he’s down so I’m trying to be supportive and I’m allowing him to stay in our lives. But at the same time, it’s hard to break away and focus on just me and the kids when he still keeps constantly reaching out to me. I’m having a hard time truly healing. I just don’t know which direction to take. I’m figuring it out as I go. Although things are much better, I still struggle with how to deal with my relationship with him. Any suggestions?
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I'm guessing that he thinks drinking is the sole cause of your marriage troubles. It may be the root cause, but other issues would have piled on top over time, like anger, stress, anxiety.
If he's fairly literally minded he may be in problem solving mode thinking his sobriety will resolve everything. Do you think he feels there is no other barrier to you getting back together?
Would it be helpful to talk this out with a therapist to clarify your thoughts on what you want out of this trial separation?
If he's fairly literally minded he may be in problem solving mode thinking his sobriety will resolve everything. Do you think he feels there is no other barrier to you getting back together?
Would it be helpful to talk this out with a therapist to clarify your thoughts on what you want out of this trial separation?
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sotired…….it would seem that the point of a "separation" is to provide some degree of separation. Yes? No?
You make it clear t hat you are wanting to "be supportive and allow him to stay in our lives".
To me, that looks like two competing ideas.....
I understand that there are children...but, it would seem, to me, that there needs to be some agreement on exactly how much "support" you are willing to give and how much you want him present in your lives.....
I suppose I am talking about boundaries....your boundaries and how much you are willing to enforce boundaries...….
Remembering, of course, that boundaries are not rules that you establish for another person to live by...but, the ways that you protect yourself from the outside your self.....
sotired….you are threatening divorce...and, he does not want a divorce. Of course, he is going to push back and do all that is within his power to convince you otherwise......I think this is something that you need to expect that he is going to do.....
You make it clear t hat you are wanting to "be supportive and allow him to stay in our lives".
To me, that looks like two competing ideas.....
I understand that there are children...but, it would seem, to me, that there needs to be some agreement on exactly how much "support" you are willing to give and how much you want him present in your lives.....
I suppose I am talking about boundaries....your boundaries and how much you are willing to enforce boundaries...….
Remembering, of course, that boundaries are not rules that you establish for another person to live by...but, the ways that you protect yourself from the outside your self.....
sotired….you are threatening divorce...and, he does not want a divorce. Of course, he is going to push back and do all that is within his power to convince you otherwise......I think this is something that you need to expect that he is going to do.....
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I went back and read some of your older posts on here and noticed that you have been struggling for a very long time. I agree with what Dandylion suggested that if you set some firm boundaries it may be easier on everyone. He really needs to give you space to heal and build your own solid life, as he should be doing as well. I would hate to see you get sucked back in for another roller-coaster ride. Hugs to you and your boys.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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Thank you Dandy! That is so helpful. You’re right. What he’s doing is expected. And you’re right, the boundaries should be for me, not for him. That helps me put things in better perspective. I will do only what I can handle emotionally. And I think I can live with that. The point of separation was to be separated. I easily can do this, but he’s having a hard time with it. I guess it’s to be expected. That’s why the timeline is 6 months and not just one day. It’s going to take time for him to figure things out. I remember struggling to potty train my kids. I wanted them to learn so badly. I was so frustrated. Then one day they just did it! They learned when they were ready. There was no way for me to force it. I feel that way right now...
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Sotired…….I can't remember if your husband is working at a job or not.....but, I am curious as to how much free time he has on his hands..to be reaching out to you.....
I have been around lots of alcoholics who were in early recovery,,,,and, they hardly had time to do anything else (if they had a regular job). For the first 90 days they were attending one or more AA meetings per day...meeting with their sponsor....attending AA functions or outreach work,,,,,,and, any meetings with counselors......which all take lots of time!
I am wondering how much actual time he I s giving to his AA work? Is he spending time trying to impress you with attention.....like helping with housework...…
The only reason that I mention this...….is, that, if he is not putting all of his efforts into working on his sobriety as Top Priority....relapse is very likely....
His new car? Is he trying to impress someone?
I have been around lots of alcoholics who were in early recovery,,,,and, they hardly had time to do anything else (if they had a regular job). For the first 90 days they were attending one or more AA meetings per day...meeting with their sponsor....attending AA functions or outreach work,,,,,,and, any meetings with counselors......which all take lots of time!
I am wondering how much actual time he I s giving to his AA work? Is he spending time trying to impress you with attention.....like helping with housework...…
The only reason that I mention this...….is, that, if he is not putting all of his efforts into working on his sobriety as Top Priority....relapse is very likely....
His new car? Is he trying to impress someone?
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Join Date: Aug 2018
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I think that when you decide you really do want the space to heal, he'll eventually back off and focus on his own healing, or not, that's his choice. You have no control over his choices. Similar to the way you tried to force the potty training with your kids.... Holding onto our wants with a kind of worrisome death-grip tends to make the opposite of that want come true. Let go and be kind to yourself. Enjoy your healing space, you deserve it x
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How far into the separation are you?
Not every text & phone call needs to be answered. You have full control over that.
I see the texts that my AH sends to me usually pretty quickly from when they were sent. I take my time in answering them, if at all. It's just part of my detachment.
Not every text & phone call needs to be answered. You have full control over that.
I see the texts that my AH sends to me usually pretty quickly from when they were sent. I take my time in answering them, if at all. It's just part of my detachment.
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so if i have the math right, he's been "gone" not even two weeks? that is very early days.
he drops by to show off his NEW CAR. new car purchased since he moved out? that doesn't sound like somebody really down on their luck and suffering.............does it?
he drops by to show off his NEW CAR. new car purchased since he moved out? that doesn't sound like somebody really down on their luck and suffering.............does it?
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I remember struggling to potty train my kids. I wanted them to learn so badly. I was so frustrated. Then one day they just did it! They learned when they were ready. There was no way for me to force it. I feel that way right now...
This is such a great analogy. Yes it's time for your husband to deal with his own sh@@.
You cannot do his recovery for him. You are not the person he needs to talk to about his recovery. He needs to do that with his sponsor, therapist, AA friends.
You need to do your own recovery work and I don't think you'll want to talk to him about that?
Are you going to Al-anon?
This is such a great analogy. Yes it's time for your husband to deal with his own sh@@.
You cannot do his recovery for him. You are not the person he needs to talk to about his recovery. He needs to do that with his sponsor, therapist, AA friends.
You need to do your own recovery work and I don't think you'll want to talk to him about that?
Are you going to Al-anon?
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Join Date: Dec 2017
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It took my ex several weeks of inpatient rehab to stop focusing on me and our crappy marriage rather than focusing on himself. He got called out on it many times by his rehab buddies. The fact that he is focusing so much on you means that he is really not putting the focus and energy here it needs to be which is him. Tell him you need space. My ex actually admitted in marriage counseling that the fact I was so detached from him and not wanting to be around him forced him to focus on himself rather than our me and our marriage and it actually is what he really needed. Had I been very available and present we likely would’ve fallen right back in that codependent trap. You need time to figure you out in all of this and him being there all the time is actually really manipulative if you really look at it. Set boundaries de you and stick to them. Don’t worry about how those make him feel. You are not responsible for his feelings. You need to do what is right for you right now and if that is having space then he needs to respect that. Like someone else said, he ended to talk to his sponsors and AA people about his recovery and not you. You have your own recovery to worry about. Not sure if you are in therapy but I hope you are. I had a lot of guilt after he got sober and I wasn’t in a place where I wanted to be with him. I learned that it was ok to feel what I felt and to stop putting his (or anyone else’s) feelings before my own.
He may not realize it but he needs space too. Also he just bought a new car like that? Did he consult you on that I hope.
He may not realize it but he needs space too. Also he just bought a new car like that? Did he consult you on that I hope.
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Update: I’m still struggling. I set up boundaries and I was limiting my contact with him a lot which was hard, but it was helping. Until yesterday... He texted early in the morning that he was not doing well emotionally. I suggested he go see his psychiatrist. He went but after his visit he sounded worse and he said they didn’t help him (FYI I never really found exactly what happened with the psychiatrist). He sounded like he was in crisis so I told him to just sit tight at the clinic and I would be right over as soon as I got a lunch break. When I got there he was completely wasted. He obviously had something while he was waiting for me because he did not sound drunk on the phone. He couldn’t even walk and he wasn’t making any sense but he was able to at least tell me he wanted help. I took him to the ER and the doctors and I agreed he would benefit from inpatient detox, but we would have to wait until he sobered up. I spent a long time at the ER helping the nurses/doctors/him. Unfortunately I couldn’t wait all day and had to get back to work/my kids. The doctors told me they would call me with an update. Later in the evening AH called me saying he wanted to leave and he was being discharged. He refused inpatient detox. I was furious-he had wasted everybody’s time including mine. I picked him up from the hospital and on the way to drop him off at his house, I really let him have it. I was not nice. I told him to never contact me again and that he was dead to me. When I dropped him off I left without even a good bye. I didn’t sleep all night and today now that I’m calmed down, I’m feeling guilty for the way I left things. I blocked him on my phone but I’m still worried about him. I have this urge to reach out to him but I’ve been able to resist. I want to give it at least 1 day before reaching out and I worry that he won’t answer any way and I’ll feel even worse. I’m hurting and I’m sure he is to. Ugh... I hate this.
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Yes, it's a terrible situation and I'm sorry you got hurt (again).
I wouldn't have picked him up (from the failed detox), personally. Sadly it is just reinforcing his behaviour.
I think it was very kind of you to go to see him in the first place and he asked for help, which you provided.
You just spent most of your day running around after him while he just does things on a whim.
He needs much bigger help that you can give him (which he needs to understand) so really all you are doing is driving a drunk person around when you go to "rescue" him. I don't mean that in a judgmental way at all, which I hope you know, just that you are wasting your time. Until he is ready to get in to recovery, you can't help him.
I'm unhappy and struggling, I'll call sotired! Oh she suggested the psychiatrist, I'll go there. Ok after an hour of that I still don't feel good, so I'll drink this away. Oh detox, yes, sotired says that's good, off we go. Nope, I don't like that, I'll call sotired for a ride.
Does any of that seem true?
I know you didn't mean that he is "dead" to you and you probably want to clear that up, I understand, but really you running around after him, nothing has changed. It's not doing you any good and it's actually not doing him any good either?
I wouldn't have picked him up (from the failed detox), personally. Sadly it is just reinforcing his behaviour.
I think it was very kind of you to go to see him in the first place and he asked for help, which you provided.
You just spent most of your day running around after him while he just does things on a whim.
He needs much bigger help that you can give him (which he needs to understand) so really all you are doing is driving a drunk person around when you go to "rescue" him. I don't mean that in a judgmental way at all, which I hope you know, just that you are wasting your time. Until he is ready to get in to recovery, you can't help him.
I'm unhappy and struggling, I'll call sotired! Oh she suggested the psychiatrist, I'll go there. Ok after an hour of that I still don't feel good, so I'll drink this away. Oh detox, yes, sotired says that's good, off we go. Nope, I don't like that, I'll call sotired for a ride.
Does any of that seem true?
I know you didn't mean that he is "dead" to you and you probably want to clear that up, I understand, but really you running around after him, nothing has changed. It's not doing you any good and it's actually not doing him any good either?
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sotired…….it is really hard to read the amount of pain that you suffer.....as, it seems that your desire to help him change is so much more intense than his desire to change.....
It is soooo hard for a person to come to truly understand that ---You didn't Cause it; You can't Cure it; and, you can't fix it...…
FYI....I think it is of little point to go to a detox...WITHOUT an immediate plan for admission to a rehab facility already planned. Statistically, most will fall through the cracks between detox and rehab.....
There are some rehab facilities that take the person while they are still intoxicated and do the whole procedure at one place......this avoids the painful withdrawl symptoms that lead to picking up, again...…
There is, also, the option of seeing a private doctor and having the doctor guide the detox and admission to a rehab program....all the while, managing withdrawl symptoms with observation and needed medications...….
There is also the option of his doing 90 AA meetings in 90 days while under the medical supervision and treatment of a private doctor...……(all done as outopatient, if the doctor deems this physically safe.....)
sotired...I think that you are in over your head, as to his treatment.....even if you were a specialist.....because you are too close...too entwined...to co-dependent inclined.....You have lost all ability to be objective……
I know that you are tired, now.....but, if this continues at this rate, you will be worn now to a nubbin.....so much so, that you may become sick, yourself....It happens!
It is soooo hard for a person to come to truly understand that ---You didn't Cause it; You can't Cure it; and, you can't fix it...…
FYI....I think it is of little point to go to a detox...WITHOUT an immediate plan for admission to a rehab facility already planned. Statistically, most will fall through the cracks between detox and rehab.....
There are some rehab facilities that take the person while they are still intoxicated and do the whole procedure at one place......this avoids the painful withdrawl symptoms that lead to picking up, again...…
There is, also, the option of seeing a private doctor and having the doctor guide the detox and admission to a rehab program....all the while, managing withdrawl symptoms with observation and needed medications...….
There is also the option of his doing 90 AA meetings in 90 days while under the medical supervision and treatment of a private doctor...……(all done as outopatient, if the doctor deems this physically safe.....)
sotired...I think that you are in over your head, as to his treatment.....even if you were a specialist.....because you are too close...too entwined...to co-dependent inclined.....You have lost all ability to be objective……
I know that you are tired, now.....but, if this continues at this rate, you will be worn now to a nubbin.....so much so, that you may become sick, yourself....It happens!
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this person had access to medical professional help and intervention throughout the day - first with a psychiatrist (assuming he actually HAD a bona fide in office appointment) and then later at the ER. he had doctors monitoring him and willing to help him get IN to DETOX.
and what did he DO with all that help?
not.one.damn.thing
in my ultra suspicious nature, i think he just played you. again.
he was able to get himself to the psych appointment, but then needed you to.........get him to the ER. meaning you had to leave your job to go play Uber driver. then you spent more of your day at the ER trying to help navigate the process. and all was well and good until you left and returned to YOUR job and YOUR life.
then suddenly it's no longer a crisis for him and he refuses treatment. and then calls YOU to come get him.
insert picture of marionette being manipulated by a series of strings here.
you are not a doctor, nurse, ambulance driver, social work, or taxi service. you are not responsible for this man in any way. you are not obligated to drop what you are doing because he summons you. he knows where and how to get help. he could not have been more perfectly positioned to start the recovery process than he was yesterday.
he doesn't want help. he just wants to keep you at his beck and call and he is using the weapons he knows work best.
and what did he DO with all that help?
not.one.damn.thing
in my ultra suspicious nature, i think he just played you. again.
he was able to get himself to the psych appointment, but then needed you to.........get him to the ER. meaning you had to leave your job to go play Uber driver. then you spent more of your day at the ER trying to help navigate the process. and all was well and good until you left and returned to YOUR job and YOUR life.
then suddenly it's no longer a crisis for him and he refuses treatment. and then calls YOU to come get him.
insert picture of marionette being manipulated by a series of strings here.
you are not a doctor, nurse, ambulance driver, social work, or taxi service. you are not responsible for this man in any way. you are not obligated to drop what you are doing because he summons you. he knows where and how to get help. he could not have been more perfectly positioned to start the recovery process than he was yesterday.
he doesn't want help. he just wants to keep you at his beck and call and he is using the weapons he knows work best.
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So tired ... Feeling guilty helps neither him nor you. You don't need to feel guilty. You expressed honestly how you felt at that time and under those circumstances. There is nothing wrong with that.
Sometimes when I feel angry with my alcoholic husband I remind myself that it is not him I am angry with but the alcohol. Sometimes I feel like it is the alcohol that I am talking to.
Think of it like Jekyl and Hyde. Which one are you angry with?
I look at it as if my husband is possessed by an alcoholic demon. If I were to say "you're dead to me" or something along those lines I would know that I'm talking to the alcohol or the alcoholic demon. I wouldn't be saying it to my actual husband who I know is still in there somewhere.
That helps too when he says hurtful things. It helps me to not take them personally if I look at it like the alcohol was talking. I think it's kind of a way to detach.
It's horrible for you to watch him self destruct. Don't feel guilty for trying to help even if you say harsh things as a result.
Your intention is good, you want to help him. Unfortunately nothing you say or do will make any difference until HE decides that he is ready.
Please take care of yourself
Sometimes when I feel angry with my alcoholic husband I remind myself that it is not him I am angry with but the alcohol. Sometimes I feel like it is the alcohol that I am talking to.
Think of it like Jekyl and Hyde. Which one are you angry with?
I look at it as if my husband is possessed by an alcoholic demon. If I were to say "you're dead to me" or something along those lines I would know that I'm talking to the alcohol or the alcoholic demon. I wouldn't be saying it to my actual husband who I know is still in there somewhere.
That helps too when he says hurtful things. It helps me to not take them personally if I look at it like the alcohol was talking. I think it's kind of a way to detach.
It's horrible for you to watch him self destruct. Don't feel guilty for trying to help even if you say harsh things as a result.
Your intention is good, you want to help him. Unfortunately nothing you say or do will make any difference until HE decides that he is ready.
Please take care of yourself
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What's the old saying, you can lead them to the water but you cannot make them drink?
My mom once told me it's not my job to keep leading them there over and over. After the first time, they can find it themselves if they want it.
So simple, and so very true.
I encourage you to keep him blocked and give yourself a little time to get away from this situation. Should he contact you again and you sense he is in crisis, call the police for a well check. That will do one of two things. Get him the help he needs or at least get him to see you mean business and are not at his beck and call.
Sending you a hug.
My mom once told me it's not my job to keep leading them there over and over. After the first time, they can find it themselves if they want it.
So simple, and so very true.
I encourage you to keep him blocked and give yourself a little time to get away from this situation. Should he contact you again and you sense he is in crisis, call the police for a well check. That will do one of two things. Get him the help he needs or at least get him to see you mean business and are not at his beck and call.
Sending you a hug.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 62
in my ultra suspicious nature, i think he just played you. again.
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