Kids
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Kids
Kids are desperate for a relationship with AF, and I can see impact of his indifference on them. I am going to discuss this with him.this week, but I'm very anxious because I know how it will go. It will be their fault- he's tried to do xyz with them and they don't want to, they don't appreciate what he does for them, their spolit...blah blah blah.
I'm anxious because I think this is my deal breaker.
I'm feeling done, but I can't continue to subject them to this. Its affecting their friendships and self-esteem.
This will take a lot of unraveling.
I'm anxious because I think this is my deal breaker.
I'm feeling done, but I can't continue to subject them to this. Its affecting their friendships and self-esteem.
This will take a lot of unraveling.
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Originally Posted by SparkleKitty 
W, maybe don't just speak to him, but speak to them. They are going to need to know this is not their fault.
I need to see a lawyer, leave, tell them we're leaving, tell AH we're leaving... just not sure what order that goes in.
I'm going around in circles.
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A few deep breaths will help.
Personally? I would tell your AH first. Then the children. I would also tell them why, truthfully. That you and they can no longer live in a house where there is alcoholism/excessive drinking.
Frankly, I would have been relieved if my Mother had left my Father earlier, as I got older I didn't really understand why she stayed. Of course upon reflection, I do know. She felt it was best financially and she was right.
That said, I never would have questioned it if she had decided to leave, so I don't really understand how children can become so attached to an alcoholic Father, then again, my Dad was not parental, every once in a while he would complain about us doing this or that or not doing this or that - that's about it.
As a child I guess I felt differently (I don't remember but the greeting cards from that time say so). Of course his alcoholism must have progressed perhaps (again, can't remember but as a pre and young teen it was very bad).
There was also the thing that you are supposed to LIKE your Father, no one says, it's ok to not like him, to not like how he acts or what he does (at least when you are 10 and under). I was never under any illusion that he was other than how he was, because no one ever said I had to like him or how he acted either, so I came to my own conclusions.
You know what, kids can function quite well without a Father figure in the picture, period.
Personally? I would tell your AH first. Then the children. I would also tell them why, truthfully. That you and they can no longer live in a house where there is alcoholism/excessive drinking.
Frankly, I would have been relieved if my Mother had left my Father earlier, as I got older I didn't really understand why she stayed. Of course upon reflection, I do know. She felt it was best financially and she was right.
That said, I never would have questioned it if she had decided to leave, so I don't really understand how children can become so attached to an alcoholic Father, then again, my Dad was not parental, every once in a while he would complain about us doing this or that or not doing this or that - that's about it.
As a child I guess I felt differently (I don't remember but the greeting cards from that time say so). Of course his alcoholism must have progressed perhaps (again, can't remember but as a pre and young teen it was very bad).
There was also the thing that you are supposed to LIKE your Father, no one says, it's ok to not like him, to not like how he acts or what he does (at least when you are 10 and under). I was never under any illusion that he was other than how he was, because no one ever said I had to like him or how he acted either, so I came to my own conclusions.
You know what, kids can function quite well without a Father figure in the picture, period.
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I'm really sorry about that Wombaticus. I know this has to be incredibly painful, you are hurt, so understandable.
We talk about how the children are hurt by staying in an alcoholic environment and that's true.
What we don't mention much is how terribly hard this is on the parents, in terms of the children (at least the sober partner and many times the alcoholic as well). Of course it is up to the adults to sort out, doesn't mean it doesn't hurt like hell.
It's true in divorces where alcohol is not involved as well. It's never fun or good or wished for. Perhaps when the time comes to divorce it can be, in some cases, but there is always the underlying thoughts of when it was good and hopeful.
So all you can do, perhaps, to comfort yourself is look forward a bit, to a time when things will be less stressful and chaotic. Nothing is written in stone, at some point he may seek recovery, just can't predict that. In the meantime you all deserve some peace and contentment and that is achievable for you.
We talk about how the children are hurt by staying in an alcoholic environment and that's true.
What we don't mention much is how terribly hard this is on the parents, in terms of the children (at least the sober partner and many times the alcoholic as well). Of course it is up to the adults to sort out, doesn't mean it doesn't hurt like hell.
It's true in divorces where alcohol is not involved as well. It's never fun or good or wished for. Perhaps when the time comes to divorce it can be, in some cases, but there is always the underlying thoughts of when it was good and hopeful.
So all you can do, perhaps, to comfort yourself is look forward a bit, to a time when things will be less stressful and chaotic. Nothing is written in stone, at some point he may seek recovery, just can't predict that. In the meantime you all deserve some peace and contentment and that is achievable for you.
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Wombaticus…..I an giving you the following link to a website that I think may be helpful for you right now. It is educational, in nature...and, is organized by state.
It can help you to organize your thoughts for when you do see a lawyer.....and, it might save you a lot of time, that way.....
www.womansdivorce.com
It can help you to organize your thoughts for when you do see a lawyer.....and, it might save you a lot of time, that way.....
www.womansdivorce.com
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[Trigger alert -physical abuse mentioned]
Wombaticus, your post brought be back to a memory when our abuser would threaten my sister and I by saying things like "maybe one day I'll leave" or "you don't love me" and my sister and I would beg her to stay because we were too young to know any better. This was a lady who stabbed needles into us and we were begging her not to leave! I can't speak for my sister, but I can say for myself that I was terrified by the notion that I would be so horrendous that somebody, anybody would want to leave me. When she DID impetuously decide to leave us to our own devices, I would call random phone numbers and go into full fledged panic attacks because I was too scared to admit that the woman who was supposed to take care of us had left us. I thought it was my fault.
I tell you this because I would not be surprised if your children get upset about your decision. As an adult, I can say now that if my abuser had left us it would have been the best for everybody involved. As a child, I wouldn't have had that perspective at all. I wish somebody had put two and two together and saved us.
Wombaticus, your post brought be back to a memory when our abuser would threaten my sister and I by saying things like "maybe one day I'll leave" or "you don't love me" and my sister and I would beg her to stay because we were too young to know any better. This was a lady who stabbed needles into us and we were begging her not to leave! I can't speak for my sister, but I can say for myself that I was terrified by the notion that I would be so horrendous that somebody, anybody would want to leave me. When she DID impetuously decide to leave us to our own devices, I would call random phone numbers and go into full fledged panic attacks because I was too scared to admit that the woman who was supposed to take care of us had left us. I thought it was my fault.
I tell you this because I would not be surprised if your children get upset about your decision. As an adult, I can say now that if my abuser had left us it would have been the best for everybody involved. As a child, I wouldn't have had that perspective at all. I wish somebody had put two and two together and saved us.
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I am very sorry. In my experience only - after tons of therapy with my children, the revelation has been that in leaving they didn't actually lose anything other than the dream of having an engaged healthy father, and they could still have that dream without living the disappointment of the reality in close quarters everyday. AH had not been engaged in the "meat" so to speak of the kids lives in years. Yes he sometimes went to important things, was he emotionally present for them? Nope, did he seek to understand them as individuals? nope, did he support them into become a Separate individual so they can go off into the world under their own ideals? nope. What they did lose when we left - the daily reminder that AH was not the father, man they needed or deserved, that constant struggle of is there something I am doing to cause or make situations worse, the daily pain of living with someone who doesn't see or is immune to their pain, the stress of living with constantly unpredictable behavior, the isolation from friends because they were too embarrassed to have people over, the feeling of being alone in the situation. (When your(me) mom is constantly trying to protect and shield you but in reality was enabling the A, she isn't there emotionally for the kids either) Just my experience and thoughts only - I will tell you by leaving my relationships with my kids are amazing now, it was such a blessing in disguise. They know I am imperfect but will always tell the truth, they know I will sit and listen to them including how I have failed, they know that I am always available to them, sober and present at any moment of the day, they know they can trust me with everything. Truly a blessing had we not left I truly think I would not have the depth of relationship I have with my kids today.
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You've got this.
One day at a time.
Spiritual connections, recoveries and journeys are absolutely amazing. Good things coming each day. May we have eyes to see them, ears to hear and openness to new, wonderful adventures.
"What do you fear most?" is something I now allow to come up in a natural flow and have stronger skills to deal with each day. In this, all the good stuff is even more brilliant.
Zen warrior mode.
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Thanks all.
I saw my GP today and after several visits with her, I've decided I really like her - she's someone I can trust. When I recapped my story, she brought up alanon, talked about the 'family disease', and knew that emotional disconnectedness was a result of brain changes, and was progressive.
She's agreed to talk to my son, and asked me what approach I would like her to take. Amazing. We'll also talk about him seeing a counsellor.
Feel like I've had a win in an otherwise sad, distressing week.
I saw my GP today and after several visits with her, I've decided I really like her - she's someone I can trust. When I recapped my story, she brought up alanon, talked about the 'family disease', and knew that emotional disconnectedness was a result of brain changes, and was progressive.
She's agreed to talk to my son, and asked me what approach I would like her to take. Amazing. We'll also talk about him seeing a counsellor.
Feel like I've had a win in an otherwise sad, distressing week.
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Great appt with the doctor today. DS and I both got teary. When you take teenage angst out of the picture, the issue is clear ... an emotionally unavailable father.
I still cant quite believe this is all happening.
Back in the car I told him just how sorry I was, and that he should never feel like he's alone.
What a mess.
But, its documented, we have a plan, and a referral for counseling , which he really wanted.
Small steps.
I still cant quite believe this is all happening.
Back in the car I told him just how sorry I was, and that he should never feel like he's alone.
What a mess.
But, its documented, we have a plan, and a referral for counseling , which he really wanted.
Small steps.
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Originally Posted by Wombaticus
But, its documented, we have a plan, and a referral for counseling , which he really wanted.
Small steps.
Small steps.
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Originally Posted by FeelingGreat
Big step W, most teenage boys aren't keen for counselling and it's so helpful. When my DS had his first bad break-up at 18 he struggled for a while, then I sent him to my (male) doctor who loved to talk. It made all the difference.
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Told AH tonight about son's mood, previous thoughts about harm, crying episodes, wanting more time with AH.
And guess what? No, you'll never guess!!!
ok, perhaps you will...i know you well.
He deflected and blamed. Its all son's fault. He seems ok, he just wants to do video games, ive consistently tried. "What about the time..." This is all him being manipulative. Etc etc
Luckily I was prepared for this and was able to stay calm. His relationship with his son is not my responsibility. My relationship with my son is, as is his welfare. And if son wants to talk with a third party, i will make that happen.
Why doesn't he talk to me instead of a counsellor, he asks. I say - he doesn't know how to do that.
So next steps? I will encourage communication generally.
I will keep an even keel and perhaps check in with my counsellor.
Hb is upset now - i can hear him restless upstairs.
What a mess.
And guess what? No, you'll never guess!!!
ok, perhaps you will...i know you well.
He deflected and blamed. Its all son's fault. He seems ok, he just wants to do video games, ive consistently tried. "What about the time..." This is all him being manipulative. Etc etc
Luckily I was prepared for this and was able to stay calm. His relationship with his son is not my responsibility. My relationship with my son is, as is his welfare. And if son wants to talk with a third party, i will make that happen.
Why doesn't he talk to me instead of a counsellor, he asks. I say - he doesn't know how to do that.
So next steps? I will encourage communication generally.
I will keep an even keel and perhaps check in with my counsellor.
Hb is upset now - i can hear him restless upstairs.
What a mess.
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So sorry to hear about your situation.
It sounds like you have a good grasp on what is going on and have thought out possible scenarios at this point moving forward.
Don't know if this is helpful or not. My kid is 16 and I've been a functioning alcoholic father his entire life, minus the last few weeks. To compound the problem of "family time", I've had a small business that has been very time and emotion draining. I've always placed a high value on doing things with wife and kid though. Often the results of drinking led to less emphasis being placed on activities with the kid. For example we may not have done some things on Saturday or Sunday morning because I was hungover from drinking the night before. Work responsibilities have often resulted in less time available with family, for which I have become quite resentful of customers who just want to waist my time.
It is easy to feel unappreciated as a father. It just simply is not in the DNA of a son to express appreciation to his father for taking him fishing or whatever, no matter how much work you put into it or what other things you put off so that you could have time. That is something I've struggled with at times. I figure it's just God getting me back for being a PITA towards my dad.
It is always amazing to me, and discouraging, that more times than not when I take my kid fishing we are in the minority as a father/son combo. I wonder how many other guys have kids that they just left at home to play on their phones all day.
It sounds like you have a good grasp on what is going on and have thought out possible scenarios at this point moving forward.
Don't know if this is helpful or not. My kid is 16 and I've been a functioning alcoholic father his entire life, minus the last few weeks. To compound the problem of "family time", I've had a small business that has been very time and emotion draining. I've always placed a high value on doing things with wife and kid though. Often the results of drinking led to less emphasis being placed on activities with the kid. For example we may not have done some things on Saturday or Sunday morning because I was hungover from drinking the night before. Work responsibilities have often resulted in less time available with family, for which I have become quite resentful of customers who just want to waist my time.
It is easy to feel unappreciated as a father. It just simply is not in the DNA of a son to express appreciation to his father for taking him fishing or whatever, no matter how much work you put into it or what other things you put off so that you could have time. That is something I've struggled with at times. I figure it's just God getting me back for being a PITA towards my dad.
It is always amazing to me, and discouraging, that more times than not when I take my kid fishing we are in the minority as a father/son combo. I wonder how many other guys have kids that they just left at home to play on their phones all day.
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Originally Posted by Wombaticus
Told AH tonight about son's mood, previous thoughts about harm, crying episodes, wanting more time with AH.
And guess what? No, you'll never guess!!!
And guess what? No, you'll never guess!!!
Because yes, my guess was he doesn't care.
He deflected and blamed. Its all son's fault. He seems ok, he just wants to do video games, ive consistently tried. "What about the time..." This is all him being manipulative. Etc etc
Most kids would leave that video game in a second if there were another option, like a movie or a lunch out or an activity.
He is too self-centered to see this, of course and everything must be blamed on someone else! It's the law!
Well, down the road he will have next to no relationship with his Son because this won't get better, he won't know him and who he is and your Son will detach (assuming everything stays as it is).
You're right, it isn't your responsibility and I would, personally, just let that blow away in the wind, you can't fix it. You cannot make him see. From your Son's point of view, you defending your Husband on any level will seem like you are taking sides and that can only be bad for your own relationship with him.
Why doesn't he talk to me instead of a counsellor
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Wombaticus…..if you go on amazon.com, in the book section, you can find several books on mothers raising sons....as, essentially like single parent....
Just type in "mothers raising sons".....and, you will be able to read the book reviews and pick what looks helpful for you....
Your husband is who he is....and, you won't be able to change him into the ideal father....alcoholics are sooo oblivious to the needs of others....
You may have to kind other ways to expose your son to healthy male role models..... An interested uncle or grandfather or other relative or close family friend.....teachers, coaches, scout leaders,.....clubs of other boys and their fathers, etc....can help fill the void, to a great degree....
Just type in "mothers raising sons".....and, you will be able to read the book reviews and pick what looks helpful for you....
Your husband is who he is....and, you won't be able to change him into the ideal father....alcoholics are sooo oblivious to the needs of others....
You may have to kind other ways to expose your son to healthy male role models..... An interested uncle or grandfather or other relative or close family friend.....teachers, coaches, scout leaders,.....clubs of other boys and their fathers, etc....can help fill the void, to a great degree....
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