Just an update.
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Just an update.
Nothing earth shattering to report. I did file for divorce last Tuesday but then took it back the next day. I'd asked what I felt was a very serious question over text (ugh texting is so stupid) about whether or not he wanted to be married to ME versus just splitting now and he can date whoever he wants and drink whenever he wants and see the kids whenever he can. And he gave me a watered down response that I don't want to go into because it's too ridiculous. He was using 'talk to text' and didn't think much of my question somehow and was just on the way to work. Anyway, his response was devastating to me at the time so I decided screw it this isn't worth it if he doesn't think I'm the best wife ever so I just filed. And he FLIPPED out. I've never seen him respond like this. What made me take it back was that I promised him the 6 months away to change his life. And I'm not in a hurry to divorce him, so I'm keeping my promise for the 6 months and we will decide then if this is worth salvaging.
So far the separation has been hard. I'm not sad I did it, but finding the right boundaries has been difficult. I want to set boundaries because I need them, not because I have some arbitrary idea of what boundaries need to be set.
He came in town for the weekend last weekend and stayed with us. It was good, he got some much needed bonding time with kid7 and the other kiddos too. We also had some very real conversations about his life and my life and our marriage and expectations for the next few months. He says he's all done drinking. He read the Easy Way to Quit Drinking by Alan Carr and is convinced he doesn't need this in his life anymore, that it hasn't done him any good up until now and his life is better without it. We will see.
This probably is not the best idea, but I told him we are both working on ourselves during this separation but also keeping our relationship in tact for now. I want to call him when I want to call him. Text when I want to text. Not feel pressured either way. And I don't want to talk t him after 6pm in case he chooses to drink that night. But oh by the way, if he does choose to drink that night and goes down THAT path and isn't truly serious about quitting than I'm just done and ready to divorce. I'm all set up in my house here, I have my life here that I'm building and I'm eager and happy to build it. My friends are here, my family is here, my kids wonderful school is here, I'm just ready to move on from this alcoholic BS and living with someone who only considers his happiness and never my own.
I'm done with the dancing in circles. He's either working to build my trust or he's not. And I know that's probably not 'fair to the alcoholic' but so be it. He either bucks up and fixes his life or he doesn't. I want to be happy and I'm certain that being married to an alcoholic not in recovery just no longer works for me.
If we decide to go back, I'll have a signed and sealed mediated divorce document in place where all I have to do is turn it in to the judge and our divorce will be final. I will not allow myself to be duped/lied to/deceived any longer. He knows all of this. Not romantic or sweet wife like I know, but it's the only way I'd be comfortable going back.
Let me also say as crazy as it sounds that yes I still want to work on things, this one last time, I love him and I want to see if we can 'fall in love again' - if he can become the best version of himself and we can work on our marriage than wonderful. I know what you're thinking, this is a tall order. Why yes it is. I've spent too much of my life being unhappy and I'm all done with that.
Thanks for listening. Going to AlAnon tonight. Looking forward to it.
So far the separation has been hard. I'm not sad I did it, but finding the right boundaries has been difficult. I want to set boundaries because I need them, not because I have some arbitrary idea of what boundaries need to be set.
He came in town for the weekend last weekend and stayed with us. It was good, he got some much needed bonding time with kid7 and the other kiddos too. We also had some very real conversations about his life and my life and our marriage and expectations for the next few months. He says he's all done drinking. He read the Easy Way to Quit Drinking by Alan Carr and is convinced he doesn't need this in his life anymore, that it hasn't done him any good up until now and his life is better without it. We will see.
This probably is not the best idea, but I told him we are both working on ourselves during this separation but also keeping our relationship in tact for now. I want to call him when I want to call him. Text when I want to text. Not feel pressured either way. And I don't want to talk t him after 6pm in case he chooses to drink that night. But oh by the way, if he does choose to drink that night and goes down THAT path and isn't truly serious about quitting than I'm just done and ready to divorce. I'm all set up in my house here, I have my life here that I'm building and I'm eager and happy to build it. My friends are here, my family is here, my kids wonderful school is here, I'm just ready to move on from this alcoholic BS and living with someone who only considers his happiness and never my own.
I'm done with the dancing in circles. He's either working to build my trust or he's not. And I know that's probably not 'fair to the alcoholic' but so be it. He either bucks up and fixes his life or he doesn't. I want to be happy and I'm certain that being married to an alcoholic not in recovery just no longer works for me.
If we decide to go back, I'll have a signed and sealed mediated divorce document in place where all I have to do is turn it in to the judge and our divorce will be final. I will not allow myself to be duped/lied to/deceived any longer. He knows all of this. Not romantic or sweet wife like I know, but it's the only way I'd be comfortable going back.
Let me also say as crazy as it sounds that yes I still want to work on things, this one last time, I love him and I want to see if we can 'fall in love again' - if he can become the best version of himself and we can work on our marriage than wonderful. I know what you're thinking, this is a tall order. Why yes it is. I've spent too much of my life being unhappy and I'm all done with that.
Thanks for listening. Going to AlAnon tonight. Looking forward to it.
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I've spent too much of my life being unhappy and I'm all done with that.
except that you just put your "happily ever after" dream right back in his court......again. instead of creating boundaries, you have dissolved them. which is fine, this is your life after all......but i caution you that ANY time we make someone else responsible for our own happiness, we are destined to be disappointed.
of all the books he picked to read on the subject he picked the one with THE EASY WAY in the title. coincidence? probably not.
also you changed your mind AFTER he blew up. in REACTION to his REACTION. on your own, you had just filed.
just stuff to ponder. it would be great if he really was serious THIS TIME. in fact you should know by later this afternoon just how SERIOUS he really is. because he would be taking ACTION for his recovery.
what is your plan if he doesn't hold up his end?
except that you just put your "happily ever after" dream right back in his court......again. instead of creating boundaries, you have dissolved them. which is fine, this is your life after all......but i caution you that ANY time we make someone else responsible for our own happiness, we are destined to be disappointed.
of all the books he picked to read on the subject he picked the one with THE EASY WAY in the title. coincidence? probably not.
also you changed your mind AFTER he blew up. in REACTION to his REACTION. on your own, you had just filed.
just stuff to ponder. it would be great if he really was serious THIS TIME. in fact you should know by later this afternoon just how SERIOUS he really is. because he would be taking ACTION for his recovery.
what is your plan if he doesn't hold up his end?
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More rollercoaster! Which is par for the course.
As for the rest, sounds like business as usual, however you are sounding so strong. You know what you want and you aren't going to settle for less for you or your children, that's great FWN.
I'm confused about this.
If you want to talk to him when you want to talk to him and not make any rule/boundary about that, why don't you want to talk to him after 6 PM? It keeps you from knowing if he's been drinking and allows him to drink without you knowing?
In no way am I suggesting for a second that you become the 6 PM alcohol monitor. I just don't understand the no boundary, boundary I guess?
As for the rest, sounds like business as usual, however you are sounding so strong. You know what you want and you aren't going to settle for less for you or your children, that's great FWN.
This probably is not the best idea, but I told him we are both working on ourselves during this separation but also keeping our relationship in tact for now. I want to call him when I want to call him. Text when I want to text. Not feel pressured either way. And I don't want to talk t him after 6pm in case he chooses to drink that night. But oh by the way, if he does choose to drink that night and goes down THAT path and isn't truly serious about quitting than I'm just done and ready to divorce.
If you want to talk to him when you want to talk to him and not make any rule/boundary about that, why don't you want to talk to him after 6 PM? It keeps you from knowing if he's been drinking and allows him to drink without you knowing?
In no way am I suggesting for a second that you become the 6 PM alcohol monitor. I just don't understand the no boundary, boundary I guess?
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I woke up feeling like I did the wrong thing when I filed. I didn't just take it back because he wanted me to. I did it because I wanted to and I didn't feel right making such a drastic move while I was so emotional. I want to be very level headed if I decide to file, and I wasn't.
And I don't feel like I'm making him responsible for my happiness. I'm happy here, doing what I'm doing, not longing to go back and live in that house with him. Not desperate for him to change anymore. He will or he won't.
What am I doing to make myself happy? I'm going to the gym several times a week, I'm going to dinner with friends at least once a week, I'm getting up early some days and reading my AlAnon books, I'm attending a church that I love for me and my kids even though my dad is very controlling and unhappy about my choice not to attend his church and he's made that very clear. I'm going to bed early, watching almost zero TV, I'm not making my bed on days I don't want to, I'm just doing what I want to do when I want to do it. I'm trying not to stress about what my AH is doing and am making small steps each day to emotionally/mentally step away from that line of thinking. Really loving the Courage to Change AlAnon daily reader by the way.
I feel freedom here. Freedom to be married or not be married if that's what I decide to do in the end. I'm not sure, but I am actively trying to not make my happiness revolve around him.
And I don't feel like I'm making him responsible for my happiness. I'm happy here, doing what I'm doing, not longing to go back and live in that house with him. Not desperate for him to change anymore. He will or he won't.
What am I doing to make myself happy? I'm going to the gym several times a week, I'm going to dinner with friends at least once a week, I'm getting up early some days and reading my AlAnon books, I'm attending a church that I love for me and my kids even though my dad is very controlling and unhappy about my choice not to attend his church and he's made that very clear. I'm going to bed early, watching almost zero TV, I'm not making my bed on days I don't want to, I'm just doing what I want to do when I want to do it. I'm trying not to stress about what my AH is doing and am making small steps each day to emotionally/mentally step away from that line of thinking. Really loving the Courage to Change AlAnon daily reader by the way.
I feel freedom here. Freedom to be married or not be married if that's what I decide to do in the end. I'm not sure, but I am actively trying to not make my happiness revolve around him.
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FWN.......If you "go back".....does that mean that you will move back to the house that he is currently living in....?
Do you have that much faith that he will, in 6 months.....be willing and able to never, ever, have another drink for the rest of his life? That is what genuine Sobriety means.....never drinking again.
from all of the alcoholics that I have known...it takes a much longer time to make the kinds of changes that it takes....to change their thinking and attitudes and behaviors....Even when they are vigorously investing their time and hard work into it. I have never known an alcoholic who got into genuine life-long recovery by reading a book, alone....but, on the other hand...I have not known every alcoholic that there is....lol.....
Wow...I didn't know that a person could still cohabitate....and then ma il in an envelope to the judge to get divorced....> But, then, again, I am not a lawyer...or, even play one on tv....lol.....
I just remember that I had to assure and get witness to swear that my ex and I had not co-habituated for a certain amount of time....when I got my divorce....
Oh well...I guess that I have a lot to learn.......
Do you have that much faith that he will, in 6 months.....be willing and able to never, ever, have another drink for the rest of his life? That is what genuine Sobriety means.....never drinking again.
from all of the alcoholics that I have known...it takes a much longer time to make the kinds of changes that it takes....to change their thinking and attitudes and behaviors....Even when they are vigorously investing their time and hard work into it. I have never known an alcoholic who got into genuine life-long recovery by reading a book, alone....but, on the other hand...I have not known every alcoholic that there is....lol.....
Wow...I didn't know that a person could still cohabitate....and then ma il in an envelope to the judge to get divorced....> But, then, again, I am not a lawyer...or, even play one on tv....lol.....
I just remember that I had to assure and get witness to swear that my ex and I had not co-habituated for a certain amount of time....when I got my divorce....
Oh well...I guess that I have a lot to learn.......
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Originally Posted by trailmix 
More rollercoaster! Which is par for the course.
As for the rest, sounds like business as usual, however you are sounding so strong. You know what you want and you aren't going to settle for less for you or your children, that's great FWN.
I'm confused about this.
If you want to talk to him when you want to talk to him and not make any rule/boundary about that, why don't you want to talk to him after 6 PM? It keeps you from knowing if he's been drinking and allows him to drink without you knowing?
In no way am I suggesting for a second that you become the 6 PM alcohol monitor. I just don't understand the no boundary, boundary I guess?
As for the rest, sounds like business as usual, however you are sounding so strong. You know what you want and you aren't going to settle for less for you or your children, that's great FWN.
I'm confused about this.
If you want to talk to him when you want to talk to him and not make any rule/boundary about that, why don't you want to talk to him after 6 PM? It keeps you from knowing if he's been drinking and allows him to drink without you knowing?
In no way am I suggesting for a second that you become the 6 PM alcohol monitor. I just don't understand the no boundary, boundary I guess?
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Originally Posted by dandylion
FWN.......If you "go back".....does that mean that you will move back to the house that he is currently living in....?
Do you have that much faith that he will, in 6 months.....be willing and able to never, ever, have another drink for the rest of his life? That is what genuine Sobriety means.....never drinking again.
from all of the alcoholics that I have known...it takes a much longer time to make the kinds of changes that it takes....to change their thinking and attitudes and behaviors....Even when they are vigorously investing their time and hard work into it. I have never known an alcoholic who got into genuine life-long recovery by reading a book, alone....but, on the other hand...I have not known every alcoholic that there is....lol.....
Wow...I didn't know that a person could still cohabitate....and then ma il in an envelope to the judge to get divorced....> But, then, again, I am not a lawyer...or, even play one on tv....lol.....
I just remember that I had to assure and get witness to swear that my ex and I had not co-habituated for a certain amount of time....when I got my divorce....
Oh well...I guess that I have a lot to learn.......
Do you have that much faith that he will, in 6 months.....be willing and able to never, ever, have another drink for the rest of his life? That is what genuine Sobriety means.....never drinking again.
from all of the alcoholics that I have known...it takes a much longer time to make the kinds of changes that it takes....to change their thinking and attitudes and behaviors....Even when they are vigorously investing their time and hard work into it. I have never known an alcoholic who got into genuine life-long recovery by reading a book, alone....but, on the other hand...I have not known every alcoholic that there is....lol.....
Wow...I didn't know that a person could still cohabitate....and then ma il in an envelope to the judge to get divorced....> But, then, again, I am not a lawyer...or, even play one on tv....lol.....
I just remember that I had to assure and get witness to swear that my ex and I had not co-habituated for a certain amount of time....when I got my divorce....
Oh well...I guess that I have a lot to learn.......
I honestly don't know what's going to happen at this point. Maybe in 6 months we decide we need more time, and that's okay. Or in 6 months he's not serious and I'll be ready to be done then too. I plan on keeping the rental for a few months if I move back into that house in case we need to come back because things didn't work out there.
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FWN, It may seem like a small thing in the scope of everything you have going on.... but I think it is of utmost importance that you stood up to your father regarding which church you will attend with your children, regardless of his reaction. Good for you! As a grown woman, and a parent in her own right, I'm glad you aren't allowing your husband, nor your father, to call the shots for you any longer. Brava!
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Originally Posted by SmallButMighty
FWN, It may seem like a small thing in the scope of everything you have going on.... but I think it is of utmost importance that you stood up to your father regarding which church you will attend with your children, regardless of his reaction. Good for you! As a grown woman, and a parent in her own right, I'm glad you aren't allowing your husband, nor your father, to call the shots for you any longer. Brava!
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Bravo! Self care is so important. Married, not married, it does not matter. We are all so dang busy in life that we don't make it a priority to take care of ourselves, just everyone else. Well done!
[QUOTE=
What am I doing to make myself happy? I'm going to the gym several times a week, I'm going to dinner with friends at least once a week, I'm getting up early some days and reading my AlAnon books, I'm attending a church that I love for me and my kids even though my dad is very controlling and unhappy about my choice not to attend his church and he's made that very clear. I'm going to bed early, watching almost zero TV, I'm not making my bed on days I don't want to, I'm just doing what I want to do when I want to do it. I'm trying not to stress about what my AH is doing and am making small steps each day to emotionally/mentally step away from that line of thinking. Really loving the Courage to Change AlAnon daily reader by the way.
QUOTE]
[QUOTE=
What am I doing to make myself happy? I'm going to the gym several times a week, I'm going to dinner with friends at least once a week, I'm getting up early some days and reading my AlAnon books, I'm attending a church that I love for me and my kids even though my dad is very controlling and unhappy about my choice not to attend his church and he's made that very clear. I'm going to bed early, watching almost zero TV, I'm not making my bed on days I don't want to, I'm just doing what I want to do when I want to do it. I'm trying not to stress about what my AH is doing and am making small steps each day to emotionally/mentally step away from that line of thinking. Really loving the Courage to Change AlAnon daily reader by the way.
QUOTE]
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Originally Posted by FWN
Good question. I guess what I'm saying here is that I am no longer going to call him after 6pm because I get everything I need from our relationship right now by talking to him before 6pm.
I'm sure he promised to try harder and be "better" and read his book. You accepted this (for now), not that you have a lot of choices.
This seems like the same well trampled path.
On the flipside, I totally get that you don't want to be the 6 PM alcohol monitor as long as you are aware that getting only what you need from this relationship as it is right now and not hearing what you don't want to hear, doesn't change anything?
If I'm hearing all this correctly, he has the 6 months (now what 4.5?) to get sober and be actively pursuing recovery at that point. If he is not at that point in a few weeks, you file for divorce.
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Originally Posted by trailmix
I could be so far off track here.
I'm sure he promised to try harder and be "better" and read his book. You accepted this (for now), not that you have a lot of choices.
This seems like the same well trampled path.
On the flipside, I totally get that you don't want to be the 6 PM alcohol monitor as long as you are aware that getting only what you need from this relationship as it is right now and not hearing what you don't want to hear, doesn't change anything?
If I'm hearing all this correctly, he has the 6 months (now what 4.5?) to get sober and be actively pursuing recovery at that point. If he is not at that point in a few weeks, you file for divorce.
I'm sure he promised to try harder and be "better" and read his book. You accepted this (for now), not that you have a lot of choices.
This seems like the same well trampled path.
On the flipside, I totally get that you don't want to be the 6 PM alcohol monitor as long as you are aware that getting only what you need from this relationship as it is right now and not hearing what you don't want to hear, doesn't change anything?
If I'm hearing all this correctly, he has the 6 months (now what 4.5?) to get sober and be actively pursuing recovery at that point. If he is not at that point in a few weeks, you file for divorce.
This 6pm boundary is new, as of this morning. I called him last night and he didn't answer. Texed him no answer. And I got REALLY upset, blood boiling upset that after our weekend he'd go home and drink when he said he was taking action not to. So I told him to send me a pic of a breathelizer. And he did. And even then I was distrustful and made him take a video in case he'd pre-taken that photo. So. I have issues around the post 6pm time line. And I need to break myself of this.
I'm hoping that weeks will go by and I'll be able to tell by his attitude that he's changing. I know this weekend his attitude was very different than it ever has been. The words that he was saying about drinking and him quitting were unlike anything he's said to me before. He even went to meet with the therapist here I really liked on Saturday alone and has set up weekly virtual visits with her.
I don't know. Maybe progress. Maybe not.
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FWN.......Wow...that is really quite controlling (by your father)....for a woman at your age with 4 children and living on her own!! I am going to take the liberty of being very candid, here-----Now, I can see why, maybe, that you have had such a hard time of standing up for your self with your husband......
I am guessing that you brought some of your own baggage, from your growing up years, to the relationship...even before you met you husband....
I am guessing that you brought some of your own baggage, from your growing up years, to the relationship...even before you met you husband....
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Originally Posted by dandylion
FWN.......Wow...that is really quite controlling (by your father)....for a woman at your age with 4 children and living on her own!! I am going to take the liberty of being very candid, here-----Now, I can see why, maybe, that you have had such a hard time of standing up for your self with your husband......
I am guessing that you brought some of your own baggage, from your growing up years, to the relationship...even before you met you husband....
I am guessing that you brought some of your own baggage, from your growing up years, to the relationship...even before you met you husband....
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FWN......I just read your last post---about your weekend visit form him.....
this is what I would warn any of my girlfriends....Be very careful to avoid the Horizonal Tango...when "separated". It can really mess with your mind...because it can cause a release of the powerful bonding hormone, oxytocin.
For men, it can also signal "All is well". In general, for men, the Tango can serve as reassurance that "All is well, because she is Mine"......
FWN.....I agree that you should NEVER EVER speak to him after 6 PM....since it sends you into such a powerful Orbit of Hypervigilence.
I think that would be analogous to passing a tumbler of warm whiskey under the nose of a whiteknuckling alcoholic.....
this is what I would warn any of my girlfriends....Be very careful to avoid the Horizonal Tango...when "separated". It can really mess with your mind...because it can cause a release of the powerful bonding hormone, oxytocin.
For men, it can also signal "All is well". In general, for men, the Tango can serve as reassurance that "All is well, because she is Mine"......
FWN.....I agree that you should NEVER EVER speak to him after 6 PM....since it sends you into such a powerful Orbit of Hypervigilence.
I think that would be analogous to passing a tumbler of warm whiskey under the nose of a whiteknuckling alcoholic.....
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Originally Posted by FWN
The words that he was saying about drinking and him quitting were unlike anything he's said to me before.
I say that with much caring and kindness
Its great to hear that you are making yourself and the kids a nice, safe and drama free environment! You are doing your self care and still attending Al-Anon, another great!
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Originally Posted by FWN
You don't know the half of it. He's very used to getting his way. And has his 3 children under his thumb still for the most part (and I'm the youngest!). He's a loving father, given his children every opportunity you could ask for, just... controlling. He knows no other way. And I've accepted that about him. But we butt heads sometimes because I have some of his tendencies.
Codependency is all about control.
Everything my mother does, she does with love and the best of intentions...but it is all done in an effort to control the outcomes she think will be best for everyone. I grew up learning her behaviors and then strived to be the same kind of wife and mother she role modeled.
I wish I had learned much sooner that her behavior was not healthy. Trying to control other people is not healthy, not for anybody involved.
I am glad you are learning these things in your 30s instead of your 40s like I did. My mum is in her 70s and she will never learn, she doesn't want to. Her life is not a good one. She is forever disappointed....
You are doing great FWN. You sound strong. Keep doin' what you're doin'.
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Originally Posted by FarmhouseGal
I hate to be the skeptic here but please take your husbands words with a grain of salt. It is way to easy for us “codie’s in recovery” to not latch on to the fluff n stuff that often comes out of our alcoholics mouth...
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Originally Posted by SmallButMighty
It's good that you recognize this.
Codependency is all about control.
Everything my mother does, she does with love and the best of intentions...but it is all done in an effort to control the outcomes she think will be best for everyone. I grew up learning her behaviors and then strived to be the same kind of wife and mother she role modeled.
I wish I had learned much sooner that her behavior was not healthy. Trying to control other people is not healthy, not for anybody involved.
I am glad you are learning these things in your 30s instead of your 40s like I did. My mum is in her 70s and she will never learn, she doesn't want to. Her life is not a good one. She is forever disappointed....
You are doing great FWN. You sound strong. Keep doin' what you're doin'.
Codependency is all about control.
Everything my mother does, she does with love and the best of intentions...but it is all done in an effort to control the outcomes she think will be best for everyone. I grew up learning her behaviors and then strived to be the same kind of wife and mother she role modeled.
I wish I had learned much sooner that her behavior was not healthy. Trying to control other people is not healthy, not for anybody involved.
I am glad you are learning these things in your 30s instead of your 40s like I did. My mum is in her 70s and she will never learn, she doesn't want to. Her life is not a good one. She is forever disappointed....
You are doing great FWN. You sound strong. Keep doin' what you're doin'.
My AH wants me to plan a spring break trip for our family. Usually I'd be all over this and ready to book but my main feeling is to wait and see until much closer to the date we'd go and see how I'm feeling about things so I don't feel pressured to go if I don't want to.
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Originally Posted by FWN
My AH wants me to plan a spring break trip for our family.
I think you are wise not to be planning any family trips for now.
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