Just an update.
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Originally Posted by SmallButMighty 
I hope you can see this for the manipulation that it is.
I think you are wise not to be planning any family trips for now.
I think you are wise not to be planning any family trips for now.
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Originally Posted by FWN
I actually was not looking at it as manipulation. Maybe I should, but that wasn't what crossed my mind when he asked. Just that I didn't feel comfortable booking anything right now. In general I feel like I'm probably bad at seeing manipulation because it seems like anything with enough cynicism can be construed manipulation.
You said you don't feel comfortable planning the trip. That's valid. What is it that feels uncomfortable? That you don't know where his head will be in a couple months? Or that it's weird to be planning a family trip while separated? (Or even something completely different that you don't need to share?.... but should definitely consider.)
If you WERE planning this trip how would that feel? Could it be at all possible that he would want you to be feeling nostalgic? Or guilty? Or responsible? Or yearning for things to be the way they were? Is it at all possible he would want you to feel those kinds of confusing or conflicting feelings? I don't know your AH, I can't make that determination... I do know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that mine would have used this as a tactic to put me in a position of emotional vulnerability.
I still see your husband asking you to plan a family vacation while you are separated as a very manipulative move. I may be wrong.
Trust your instincts. I know you will do what ever it is that is right for you and your kids, in your situation.
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I still see your husband asking you to plan a family vacation while you are separated as a very manipulative move. I may be wrong.
I realize we don't all think alike, but to me, a six month separation would be more like...we don't interact unless it is necessary regarding visits to see the kids. When he comes to town, he stays at a hotel or with family, or pitches a tent somewhere, but does not stay with you. He makes arrangements for what to do with the kids while he is there. Other than that, there is little to no interaction between the two of you.
This would give you time to get used to living away from him (and his drinking), and decide if you feel you and the kids would be happier just staying where you are.
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Originally Posted by SmallButMighty
I'm not trying to trash on your husband. My AXH was very manipulative and I don't think he even realized it a lot of the time. It was just him doing what he did to maintain the status quo. It was our "normal" for a long time.
You said you don't feel comfortable planning the trip. That's valid. What is it that feels uncomfortable? That you don't know where his head will be in a couple months? Or that it's weird to be planning a family trip while separated? (Or even something completely different that you don't need to share?.... but should definitely consider.)
If you WERE planning this trip how would that feel? Could it be at all possible that he would want you to be feeling nostalgic? Or guilty? Or responsible? Or yearning for things to be the way they were? Is it at all possible he would want you to feel those kinds of confusing or conflicting feelings? I don't know your AH, I can't make that determination... I do know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that mine would have used this as a tactic to put me in a position of emotional vulnerability.
I still see your husband asking you to plan a family vacation while you are separated as a very manipulative move. I may be wrong.
Trust your instincts. I know you will do what ever it is that is right for you and your kids, in your situation.
You said you don't feel comfortable planning the trip. That's valid. What is it that feels uncomfortable? That you don't know where his head will be in a couple months? Or that it's weird to be planning a family trip while separated? (Or even something completely different that you don't need to share?.... but should definitely consider.)
If you WERE planning this trip how would that feel? Could it be at all possible that he would want you to be feeling nostalgic? Or guilty? Or responsible? Or yearning for things to be the way they were? Is it at all possible he would want you to feel those kinds of confusing or conflicting feelings? I don't know your AH, I can't make that determination... I do know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that mine would have used this as a tactic to put me in a position of emotional vulnerability.
I still see your husband asking you to plan a family vacation while you are separated as a very manipulative move. I may be wrong.
Trust your instincts. I know you will do what ever it is that is right for you and your kids, in your situation.
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Originally Posted by suki44883
This would give you time to get used to living away from him (and his drinking), and decide if you feel you and the kids would be happier just staying where you are.
The reason I'm staying in contact with him is because I want to. And as strange as it sounds, if we divorce, we'd likely try and maintain a friendship if for no other reason at all than the kids. I don't want a separate 'only for my ex husband' email account where that's the only way we talk. Right now that's not how we operate. We've both agreed that there's no pro's to us being mean and hateful if we divorce, and that we'll do what's best for the kids if the time comes.
I do think our situation is somewhat unique because he is so functioning, and truly he's like so many other husbands I know... it's just that I've changed the game on him and no longer want to live that life style anymore. And only during that realization of mine did he have to come to grips with the fact that stopping drinking was actually hard for him. Oh well, this is neither here nor there. We don't dislike each other, and we are hopefully both moving in the same direction.
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Sorry if you interpreted what I said as meaning you have to be mean and hateful. That isn't what I meant at all. As for being friends after a divorce, my ex and I remained friends until the day he died. To this day, I still miss him.
I was merely explaining my idea of what separation means. If it doesn't mesh with yours, fine. It is your life and you need to do what you feel is best for your situation. I'll bow out now.
I was merely explaining my idea of what separation means. If it doesn't mesh with yours, fine. It is your life and you need to do what you feel is best for your situation. I'll bow out now.
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Originally Posted by SmallButMighty
I'm not trying to trash on your husband. My AXH was very manipulative and I don't think he even realized it a lot of the time. It was just him doing what he did to maintain the status quo. It was our "normal" for a long time.
.
.
My blinders rarely came off for over 20 years, it was safer with them on
FWN I’m also not saying this is the case here, but....at this moment, today, would YOU be asking your spouse, whom you’re currently separated from, living hundreds of miles away, who filed for divorce, to start planning a Spring Break vacation? As a family unit?
You don’t have to answer that of course.
From my experience, my AH always seemed to plan shopping trips, new furniture, a car, cash (yes, cold hard cash) at all the “right” times. Again, I had blinders on
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Originally Posted by suki44883
Sorry if you interpreted what I said as meaning you have to be mean and hateful. That isn't what I meant at all. As for being friends after a divorce, my ex and I remained friends until the day he died. To this day, I still miss him.
I was merely explaining my idea of what separation means. If it doesn't mesh with yours, fine. It is your life and you need to do what you feel is best for your situation. I'll bow out now.
I was merely explaining my idea of what separation means. If it doesn't mesh with yours, fine. It is your life and you need to do what you feel is best for your situation. I'll bow out now.
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For whatever it's worth, I've known plenty of men in their late 20s and 30s that have been confronted with this type of thing--the threat of losing their partner unless they changed their drinking ways--and came out of it clean and sober and lived happily with their wife/girlfriend and family, up until the present. Were they true alcoholics? Maybe, maybe not, but some were for sure. Alcohol certainly ruled their worlds much to the dismay of their partners, and major issues arose.
Don't rule out a good outcome, it certainly can happen for sure. I think you are being smart in laying out your expectations and I believe it's worth giving him the time you have laid out. Alcohol aside, men these days tend to "grow up" later than in more historical times, for many reasons. Could be a factor here, contributing to his drinking ways and certain behaviors and reactions. Maybe not at all, but worth waiting and seeing. He knows the rules at this point and knows youre serious about them. This is not to detract from the main issue of his drinking, of course.
Keep an open mind, is all I would suggest, as all cases are far from the same. You clearly love him and I think the same could be said about his feelings for you. This is a special thing in life, doesn't happen for all, or very easily. And, you have a family together. All factors that make at least giving the full duration of the separation and its terms, a chance. Just my opinion. And doing so with necessary caution of course, but also with an optimistic and open mind---
Don't rule out a good outcome, it certainly can happen for sure. I think you are being smart in laying out your expectations and I believe it's worth giving him the time you have laid out. Alcohol aside, men these days tend to "grow up" later than in more historical times, for many reasons. Could be a factor here, contributing to his drinking ways and certain behaviors and reactions. Maybe not at all, but worth waiting and seeing. He knows the rules at this point and knows youre serious about them. This is not to detract from the main issue of his drinking, of course.
Keep an open mind, is all I would suggest, as all cases are far from the same. You clearly love him and I think the same could be said about his feelings for you. This is a special thing in life, doesn't happen for all, or very easily. And, you have a family together. All factors that make at least giving the full duration of the separation and its terms, a chance. Just my opinion. And doing so with necessary caution of course, but also with an optimistic and open mind---
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".......whatever decision I make, but gosh I had to fight hard for this."
You don't need to fight for this FWN. You just state your decision.
"Dad, I love you and I know you mean well but my decision is made.
The topic is closed for discussion and please don't bring it up
again".
You sound like you are doing very well!
You don't need to fight for this FWN. You just state your decision.
"Dad, I love you and I know you mean well but my decision is made.
The topic is closed for discussion and please don't bring it up
again".
You sound like you are doing very well!
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So it has been 2 months at least that I can remember and he still has not taken any action as far as starting his recovery. Sounds like je read the recovery for dummies équivalant because it made it seem easy. Has he done anything besides reading a book yet? My XRAH told me 2 years before he went to rehab he understood he could never drink again. He quit for 13 months white knuckling it until he started drinking again. Understanding and actually believing and following through with it are 2 different things.
You gave him 6 months to get him self together. You are about 4-6 weeks in and so far nothing concrete yet. Someone mentions that it takes a long time to really change behaviors and see if they will really stick. It is very true. My XRAH went to inpatient rehab for 90 days...90 days of intensive counseling and daily multiple meetings. It took him about 7 weeks of that before he finally started seeing his manipulative ways. If your AH starts counseling once a week today and starts doing AA meeting daily it is unlikely he will progress that much in 4 months for you to know if he has truly changed or not. But so far he still hasn’t even started that, what is his reasoning for that’s? Stopping drinking is only a minor part of recovery. The really hard part is changing behaviors, recognizing manipulative behaviors and changing that. Dealing with his underlying cause for his drinking (anxiety depression etc) is a huge part of it because without he will not stay sober more than likely.
Vacation suggestion....total manipulation in my eyes as well. If you go on a family vacation than that means everything is just fine (in his eyes) . So I would avoid doing that as well. My ex shorty before I finally confronted him could tell things were not good and I was very distant. He was trying to come up with a couple of trips including one for my bday I guess to make things right. I politely declined as I couldn’t even fathom this knowing I was about to drop a bomb on him. He is grasping for straws to keep your family together yet the one thing he really needs to do has yet to be done. What does that really tell you?
Also I don’t think you have to be mean and hateful if you split, far from it, but also be ready that if that is really the route you end up going that emotions will take over and he may very well change his idea about an amicable split. My ex told me he would make sure I would be comfortable in the divorce as far as financial settlement would go because after all I was the mother of his child. Well things changed pretty quickly and he tried to really screw me (didn’t happen in the end but I’m just pointing out that the idea of an amicable split often ends up not happening). I do t get into fights with my ex but we interact very little. We do trash talk each other In front of our kid and I don’t really think she understands how much we dislike each other. We do have her best interest at heart.
It sounds like you decided to file for divorce when you were mad and upset and so it was a little bit of a knee jerk reaction so I get that you withdrew it. However, his reaction is concerning a little that he got so mad. What is he waiting for? Until a week before the 6 months are up and then get sober? Because if that’s the case I would stay separated if not divorce. I would require at least 6 months of sobriety WITH a recovery program that he is really working before I would even consider getting back together. I think he is procrastinating and not really serious/ready as he still has not taken action towards sobriety. When I confronted my ex and told him one more chance but he needed treatment he actually took immediate action and part of that was because he actually had gotten to the point where he was actually ready to quit. His marriage was on the line and he took it serious. Your AH is still looking for easy ways to continue his drinking and still keep his family I think. His marriage is on the line and he reads a book.... stick to your boundaries and keep the separation an actual separation because otherwise I don’t really think it will do you good and he will continue to think he can make his way back in without actually doing true recovery. It sounds lie you are doing a lot of good things, Alan on self care etc but he is still able to pay on your emotions. And I get it, that also takes time to get past and it sounds like you are becoming stronger every day. And truthfully, if you really felt like divorce was what you wanted right now you should just file, it doesn’t matter what is reaction is. If you don’t want to stay married he can’t make you, you have the right to change your mind about the 6 months. I am not saying that you are ready to file right now, mostly just saying that if you decide that you are done why prolong the agony and give him his 6 months. It would be one thing if he had started a recovery program and was actually working it. But it seems like he is just putting off to actually take action. Not a very positive sign IMO. And if after 6 months you are not ready to divorce but also not ready to move back you can just stay separated. Nothing says that you have to get divorced after 6 months. Rules can change along the way depending on what is going on. But you AH still shows a lot of manipulative behaviors and I’m sorry to say that those won’t get better just by quitting drinking. That requires a lot of counseling in order to get insight to his behaviors and the vast majority of people need professional help to get tot hat point. And only if they are ready to really quit for themselves and not just doing it to please a family member. He doesn’t sound like someone who is ready to quit for himself. You will just have to decide at what point enough is enough for you. It sounds like you are feeling much better separated and more relaxed. Recovery is super stressful for both the alcoholic and the non alcoholic. It is far from a cakewalk, if it is a cakewalk neither one is doing it right.
Pay attention to his actions (or lack there of) and not his words. My ex was a “high functioning “ alcoholic as well. He was functional at his job but in our relationship he was pretty non functional. I on,y understood that after he went to rehab and i started counseling and learned a lot about alcoholism. High functioning usually means for everyone else but his or her own family. So really that is not functional at all. I wish I would’ve understood that so much sooner. For the people that are supposedly the most important in his life he is the least functional.
I think you are doing well for many things but you too have to change and that is a slow process as well. I had weekly counseling for 2 years and I needed every bit of it. I still go now but only once every 6 weeks or so and I still find it helpful. Our habits are also hard to break and it takes time. And good for you for standing up to your father. I am gettin much better at doing this as well (my mom is the controlling one in my family) but it still isn’t easy. Again, sticking up for what we want and our boundaries takes time as well.
Your husband should take most of his time right now concentrating on himself and getting clean, but he still spends a lot of time focusing on you and the family. My ex did that a lot in rehab and his co recovering alcoholics called him out on it many times. It took a long time before he could switch that focus to worrying about himself instead of me and my actions over which he had zero control.
Do what you need to do for you and your self care. You AH is in charge of his own feelings. And like someone said....no physical intimacy during the separation although it does not sound like this happened. Your AH would likely take this as everything is just fine. And my ex could quit for several days at a time so don’t be fooled by a few days of sobriety. Unless he is doing a program in my eyes a few days of sobriety doesn’t mean much at all. He needs action to aback that up.
You gave him 6 months to get him self together. You are about 4-6 weeks in and so far nothing concrete yet. Someone mentions that it takes a long time to really change behaviors and see if they will really stick. It is very true. My XRAH went to inpatient rehab for 90 days...90 days of intensive counseling and daily multiple meetings. It took him about 7 weeks of that before he finally started seeing his manipulative ways. If your AH starts counseling once a week today and starts doing AA meeting daily it is unlikely he will progress that much in 4 months for you to know if he has truly changed or not. But so far he still hasn’t even started that, what is his reasoning for that’s? Stopping drinking is only a minor part of recovery. The really hard part is changing behaviors, recognizing manipulative behaviors and changing that. Dealing with his underlying cause for his drinking (anxiety depression etc) is a huge part of it because without he will not stay sober more than likely.
Vacation suggestion....total manipulation in my eyes as well. If you go on a family vacation than that means everything is just fine (in his eyes) . So I would avoid doing that as well. My ex shorty before I finally confronted him could tell things were not good and I was very distant. He was trying to come up with a couple of trips including one for my bday I guess to make things right. I politely declined as I couldn’t even fathom this knowing I was about to drop a bomb on him. He is grasping for straws to keep your family together yet the one thing he really needs to do has yet to be done. What does that really tell you?
Also I don’t think you have to be mean and hateful if you split, far from it, but also be ready that if that is really the route you end up going that emotions will take over and he may very well change his idea about an amicable split. My ex told me he would make sure I would be comfortable in the divorce as far as financial settlement would go because after all I was the mother of his child. Well things changed pretty quickly and he tried to really screw me (didn’t happen in the end but I’m just pointing out that the idea of an amicable split often ends up not happening). I do t get into fights with my ex but we interact very little. We do trash talk each other In front of our kid and I don’t really think she understands how much we dislike each other. We do have her best interest at heart.
It sounds like you decided to file for divorce when you were mad and upset and so it was a little bit of a knee jerk reaction so I get that you withdrew it. However, his reaction is concerning a little that he got so mad. What is he waiting for? Until a week before the 6 months are up and then get sober? Because if that’s the case I would stay separated if not divorce. I would require at least 6 months of sobriety WITH a recovery program that he is really working before I would even consider getting back together. I think he is procrastinating and not really serious/ready as he still has not taken action towards sobriety. When I confronted my ex and told him one more chance but he needed treatment he actually took immediate action and part of that was because he actually had gotten to the point where he was actually ready to quit. His marriage was on the line and he took it serious. Your AH is still looking for easy ways to continue his drinking and still keep his family I think. His marriage is on the line and he reads a book.... stick to your boundaries and keep the separation an actual separation because otherwise I don’t really think it will do you good and he will continue to think he can make his way back in without actually doing true recovery. It sounds lie you are doing a lot of good things, Alan on self care etc but he is still able to pay on your emotions. And I get it, that also takes time to get past and it sounds like you are becoming stronger every day. And truthfully, if you really felt like divorce was what you wanted right now you should just file, it doesn’t matter what is reaction is. If you don’t want to stay married he can’t make you, you have the right to change your mind about the 6 months. I am not saying that you are ready to file right now, mostly just saying that if you decide that you are done why prolong the agony and give him his 6 months. It would be one thing if he had started a recovery program and was actually working it. But it seems like he is just putting off to actually take action. Not a very positive sign IMO. And if after 6 months you are not ready to divorce but also not ready to move back you can just stay separated. Nothing says that you have to get divorced after 6 months. Rules can change along the way depending on what is going on. But you AH still shows a lot of manipulative behaviors and I’m sorry to say that those won’t get better just by quitting drinking. That requires a lot of counseling in order to get insight to his behaviors and the vast majority of people need professional help to get tot hat point. And only if they are ready to really quit for themselves and not just doing it to please a family member. He doesn’t sound like someone who is ready to quit for himself. You will just have to decide at what point enough is enough for you. It sounds like you are feeling much better separated and more relaxed. Recovery is super stressful for both the alcoholic and the non alcoholic. It is far from a cakewalk, if it is a cakewalk neither one is doing it right.
Pay attention to his actions (or lack there of) and not his words. My ex was a “high functioning “ alcoholic as well. He was functional at his job but in our relationship he was pretty non functional. I on,y understood that after he went to rehab and i started counseling and learned a lot about alcoholism. High functioning usually means for everyone else but his or her own family. So really that is not functional at all. I wish I would’ve understood that so much sooner. For the people that are supposedly the most important in his life he is the least functional.
I think you are doing well for many things but you too have to change and that is a slow process as well. I had weekly counseling for 2 years and I needed every bit of it. I still go now but only once every 6 weeks or so and I still find it helpful. Our habits are also hard to break and it takes time. And good for you for standing up to your father. I am gettin much better at doing this as well (my mom is the controlling one in my family) but it still isn’t easy. Again, sticking up for what we want and our boundaries takes time as well.
Your husband should take most of his time right now concentrating on himself and getting clean, but he still spends a lot of time focusing on you and the family. My ex did that a lot in rehab and his co recovering alcoholics called him out on it many times. It took a long time before he could switch that focus to worrying about himself instead of me and my actions over which he had zero control.
Do what you need to do for you and your self care. You AH is in charge of his own feelings. And like someone said....no physical intimacy during the separation although it does not sound like this happened. Your AH would likely take this as everything is just fine. And my ex could quit for several days at a time so don’t be fooled by a few days of sobriety. Unless he is doing a program in my eyes a few days of sobriety doesn’t mean much at all. He needs action to aback that up.
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It sounds to me not like a separation at all. It sounds like you and the kids are just living elsewhere so you're not *as affected** by his drinking. You've even made a decision not to call later in the day, so you *won't be exposed to the fact* that he is drinking.
Your life, your rules, I guess. But if you're going to be all chummy you may as well live in the same town, in another apartment, so he and the children can see one another more often, and make vacationing together easier.
Your life, your rules, I guess. But if you're going to be all chummy you may as well live in the same town, in another apartment, so he and the children can see one another more often, and make vacationing together easier.
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I truly understand your need to take time away. I had to do the same for my sanity. In hindsight, I realize that my ex went along with it so he could whatever he wanted and didn't have to sneak around anymore. He had the freedom to do whatever - whenever he wanted. After we spent weekends together and it made me second guess everything I was doing. I would be a mess.
In the end, things didn't work out for us. It was the hardest best decision I ever made. I hope your husband really decides to seek recovery but if he doesn't, trust me.....you will be so much happier with addiction out of life.
In the end, things didn't work out for us. It was the hardest best decision I ever made. I hope your husband really decides to seek recovery but if he doesn't, trust me.....you will be so much happier with addiction out of life.
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Originally Posted by FWN
I want to call him when I want to call him. Text when I want to text.
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Thank you so much everyone for your honest replies. It's one of the things I love most about this forum and the people here.
Yes, the idea of this 'separation' was for me to have breathing room away from it all while he takes time to figure out if he wants to quit drinking. And I take time to figure out what I want out of my life and if our 2 lives can ever align again because of trust issues etc.
And I'm specifically not bothering him about whether or not he is drinking and that's why I have my 6pm cut off so I don't have to wonder and nag him about it. He says he didn't drink last week, he sent me breathelyzer pics each night before bed to prove it (what used to be true was that if he didn't drink by 7pm he had no problem not drinking the rest of the night, almost like the craving went away. He says he didn't drink and that he's working with a therapist there and a therapist in my town virtually now to not drink. He's getting up and going to the gym (kid7 called him earlier than usual today and he was at the gym), he's taking our dog on 2 walks a day, he's genuinely trying to change his routine. He didn't ask me for 'just one drink' when we went to the restaurant this weekend, he's saying aloud that he wants a life without alcohol and that he's actively not drinking and working with others to help him do that. I know some people on this forum have said that a formal program isn't necessary and I'm not sure it is for him either. He could be one of those that doesn't need it. He doesn't have withdrawals, he's gone months without drinking before, he just has to WANT to not drink and to learn how to live without it. And he seems genuinely interested at least for now in doing that. I know he wants his family back, he's made that abundantly clear. He knows what that will require from him and it seems he's taking steps to get there.
He also needs to work on himself which I know he will do with this therapist virtually here. She hit on some things that no one ever has before. His mom divorced his dad at 5 years old and she left the state, he stayed with his dad. He's never had therapy or even thinks this could affect him but my therapist seems fairly certain that his 'foundation' for life is cracked because kids see things as either 'good' or 'bad' as a child and in a situation like this if no one ever talked to him about it as a child he inherently thinks he's 'bad' and cannot shake that deep feeling. She has to be right. This has to be why he's always saying I think he's a bad person. Never once have I told him that but he always seems to go there. Anyway, there's more to the story than just this but working through something like that, his abandonment feelings as a child could be a huge awakening for him. And hopefully he does that with her.
I'm staying out of it all. I'm not asking about his drinking, he says he's not so I'm leaving it at that. He knows where things need to stand by summer.
At the end of the day, I'm not angry at him. I don't want to act angry towards him, I don't want to act like we're divorcing or I'm trying to live my life as a single woman. I just want to give him and me the space needed in order to get over this hump in our marriage. But at the same time I'm prepared to just end it if he wants a different lifestyle than me going forward.
On a positive note, I went to the gym this morning and got up the courage to walk into the pickle ball room. Someone immediately taught me how to play and they let me play with them for 1.5 hours and it was SO FUN!!!! My AH and I love to 'play' tennis (we are terrible) but I have good hand eye coordination and love playing around with tennis so I tried this out. I LOVED it. I'm going to try and play every weekday morning now after I drop my older kids at school. If you haven't played and have the opportunity, TRY IT!
Yes, the idea of this 'separation' was for me to have breathing room away from it all while he takes time to figure out if he wants to quit drinking. And I take time to figure out what I want out of my life and if our 2 lives can ever align again because of trust issues etc.
And I'm specifically not bothering him about whether or not he is drinking and that's why I have my 6pm cut off so I don't have to wonder and nag him about it. He says he didn't drink last week, he sent me breathelyzer pics each night before bed to prove it (what used to be true was that if he didn't drink by 7pm he had no problem not drinking the rest of the night, almost like the craving went away. He says he didn't drink and that he's working with a therapist there and a therapist in my town virtually now to not drink. He's getting up and going to the gym (kid7 called him earlier than usual today and he was at the gym), he's taking our dog on 2 walks a day, he's genuinely trying to change his routine. He didn't ask me for 'just one drink' when we went to the restaurant this weekend, he's saying aloud that he wants a life without alcohol and that he's actively not drinking and working with others to help him do that. I know some people on this forum have said that a formal program isn't necessary and I'm not sure it is for him either. He could be one of those that doesn't need it. He doesn't have withdrawals, he's gone months without drinking before, he just has to WANT to not drink and to learn how to live without it. And he seems genuinely interested at least for now in doing that. I know he wants his family back, he's made that abundantly clear. He knows what that will require from him and it seems he's taking steps to get there.
He also needs to work on himself which I know he will do with this therapist virtually here. She hit on some things that no one ever has before. His mom divorced his dad at 5 years old and she left the state, he stayed with his dad. He's never had therapy or even thinks this could affect him but my therapist seems fairly certain that his 'foundation' for life is cracked because kids see things as either 'good' or 'bad' as a child and in a situation like this if no one ever talked to him about it as a child he inherently thinks he's 'bad' and cannot shake that deep feeling. She has to be right. This has to be why he's always saying I think he's a bad person. Never once have I told him that but he always seems to go there. Anyway, there's more to the story than just this but working through something like that, his abandonment feelings as a child could be a huge awakening for him. And hopefully he does that with her.
I'm staying out of it all. I'm not asking about his drinking, he says he's not so I'm leaving it at that. He knows where things need to stand by summer.
At the end of the day, I'm not angry at him. I don't want to act angry towards him, I don't want to act like we're divorcing or I'm trying to live my life as a single woman. I just want to give him and me the space needed in order to get over this hump in our marriage. But at the same time I'm prepared to just end it if he wants a different lifestyle than me going forward.
On a positive note, I went to the gym this morning and got up the courage to walk into the pickle ball room. Someone immediately taught me how to play and they let me play with them for 1.5 hours and it was SO FUN!!!! My AH and I love to 'play' tennis (we are terrible) but I have good hand eye coordination and love playing around with tennis so I tried this out. I LOVED it. I'm going to try and play every weekday morning now after I drop my older kids at school. If you haven't played and have the opportunity, TRY IT!
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,618
What about from a drinking point of view.
If I had someone telling me something I was doing was wrong, I mean even if they didn't come out and say, you can't do that and have me accept you as you are, I would think they thought I was a bad person too.
The difference is, I probably wouldn't care much or I would defend myself.
No, I'm not indifferent to someone's opinion, especially someone close to me. I will think about it, then come to my own conclusion.
For instance, say I was constantly overeating and my SO was always telling me how bad that was for the family, that it doesn't allow us to do the things we want to do, like play pickle-ball! and that if I just lost 20 lbs life would be grand.
Ok now I am not "ok", I need "improvement", this person who claims to love me in all my glory doesn't love me as they say they do.
That has nothing to do with abandonment, that has to do with someone not accepting your behaviour because it doesn't fit in with their view.
In no way am I saying you should just be quiet and live with alcoholism lol (as you know).
I'm just saying that could as easily trigger the "you think I'm a bad person" as his Mother going to another State to live.
The bottom line is, his drinking is a coping strategy, once he conquers that, once he learns new tools and applies them, he has a chance to quit drinking.
I get that you don't dislike your Husband and that you two don't really want to be apart and all the rest of it. But the point being made is that this isn't truly a separation and that's the truth. However! If that is what works for you two, then it is.
Being separated from someone we love is zero fun, it hurts and you are avoiding that hurt by staying in constant contact, I also get that.
The question is, can you see clearly and really view that forest if you are looking at the trees every day?
(Not saying you can't).
If I had someone telling me something I was doing was wrong, I mean even if they didn't come out and say, you can't do that and have me accept you as you are, I would think they thought I was a bad person too.
The difference is, I probably wouldn't care much or I would defend myself.
No, I'm not indifferent to someone's opinion, especially someone close to me. I will think about it, then come to my own conclusion.
For instance, say I was constantly overeating and my SO was always telling me how bad that was for the family, that it doesn't allow us to do the things we want to do, like play pickle-ball! and that if I just lost 20 lbs life would be grand.
Ok now I am not "ok", I need "improvement", this person who claims to love me in all my glory doesn't love me as they say they do.
That has nothing to do with abandonment, that has to do with someone not accepting your behaviour because it doesn't fit in with their view.
In no way am I saying you should just be quiet and live with alcoholism lol (as you know).
I'm just saying that could as easily trigger the "you think I'm a bad person" as his Mother going to another State to live.
The bottom line is, his drinking is a coping strategy, once he conquers that, once he learns new tools and applies them, he has a chance to quit drinking.
I get that you don't dislike your Husband and that you two don't really want to be apart and all the rest of it. But the point being made is that this isn't truly a separation and that's the truth. However! If that is what works for you two, then it is.
Being separated from someone we love is zero fun, it hurts and you are avoiding that hurt by staying in constant contact, I also get that.
The question is, can you see clearly and really view that forest if you are looking at the trees every day?
(Not saying you can't).
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 316
I understand what you're saying, I need a grander view of the situation and I could get that with less contact. I agree. And I need to think on that.
My AH is saying things like 'now that I'm not drinking it's important that I find ways to fill my time better, I want to do XYZ' and 'I'm doing this because before when I'd drink it was such a time waster' - he's talking about all of this TIME he has now. Which is exactly what he needs to be doing. He says he feels like this is his 'second act' in life. I know you guys are saying these are just words, but he's putting words and actions together (unless he's a really good actor now and has somehow come up with this grand plan to dup me). He's even saying he's comfortable with telling people he's just not drinking anymore in social settings. NEVER before would he have EVER said that. Anyway, I'm not being stupid. I'm hopeful, but not blind.
My AH is saying things like 'now that I'm not drinking it's important that I find ways to fill my time better, I want to do XYZ' and 'I'm doing this because before when I'd drink it was such a time waster' - he's talking about all of this TIME he has now. Which is exactly what he needs to be doing. He says he feels like this is his 'second act' in life. I know you guys are saying these are just words, but he's putting words and actions together (unless he's a really good actor now and has somehow come up with this grand plan to dup me). He's even saying he's comfortable with telling people he's just not drinking anymore in social settings. NEVER before would he have EVER said that. Anyway, I'm not being stupid. I'm hopeful, but not blind.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
FWN.....I would like to add just one additional thought for your consideration. Now, this is not something that I just thought up....there exists tons of research and writings and teachings by those who are dedicated to the study.....
It is about the power of the group dynamic in human behavior.
When it comes to support groups...they work for several reasons..but, the most powerful one...the one that differentiates the group from other kinds of help is actually the invisible dynamic...the Power of the group.
Humans are, inherently, social creatures...which has helped us survive as a species.
Acceptance by a group that we are a part of...any group....has a power in itself.
As an example....even "peer pressure" demonstrates the power that a group can have....
This group power is supported by scientific experiments and just empirical observation, over the ages.
This is one reason that alanon works so well...and, why Weight Watchers has been so successful, and why playing pickle ball can be so rewarding....(aside from the obvious physical benefits)......
Human contact is so essential and so healing...and, it is powerful in accepting groups.
Another thought....(lol...I just added a 2nd thought)....I do believe that it is extremely valuable to work on individual issues with a competent theraopist...as you husband is doing. Especially "buried" things from the past....
I will just add that individual therapy combined with support of accepting groups is a powerful combination to affect healing.....
It is about the power of the group dynamic in human behavior.
When it comes to support groups...they work for several reasons..but, the most powerful one...the one that differentiates the group from other kinds of help is actually the invisible dynamic...the Power of the group.
Humans are, inherently, social creatures...which has helped us survive as a species.
Acceptance by a group that we are a part of...any group....has a power in itself.
As an example....even "peer pressure" demonstrates the power that a group can have....
This group power is supported by scientific experiments and just empirical observation, over the ages.
This is one reason that alanon works so well...and, why Weight Watchers has been so successful, and why playing pickle ball can be so rewarding....(aside from the obvious physical benefits)......
Human contact is so essential and so healing...and, it is powerful in accepting groups.
Another thought....(lol...I just added a 2nd thought)....I do believe that it is extremely valuable to work on individual issues with a competent theraopist...as you husband is doing. Especially "buried" things from the past....
I will just add that individual therapy combined with support of accepting groups is a powerful combination to affect healing.....
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