I Know Secret Hiding Place - Should I Say Something
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I Know Secret Hiding Place - Should I Say Something
Ok so I found my AH wife’s favorite hiding place for bottles of wine she drinks each night when she “pretends” to go use the bathroom throughout the eve. And then dinks “only” a couple glasses of wine in front of me.
She thinks I assume she drinks just a couple when it’s upwards of 7+ drinks nearly daily now. So she’s lying and hiding after continued promising not to do so.
We are in weekly couples counseling and she is not being truthful in those sessions about drinking either...honestly she’s not being truthful to anyone including herself. But she seems to think shes getting away with it because I’m not saying anything.
My specific question is about the couples counseling...I feel like now I am technically lying as well...by being silent about the hiding spot. It would bring to light that I know that she keeps lying to me and it’s destroying us.
On the flip side - by me secretly knowing this hiding spot, it seems like it’s my only way I can confirm the truth or not and where’s she’s at with all this.
obviously this all seems so freaking twisted. But I’m lost in what to do.
She thinks I assume she drinks just a couple when it’s upwards of 7+ drinks nearly daily now. So she’s lying and hiding after continued promising not to do so.
We are in weekly couples counseling and she is not being truthful in those sessions about drinking either...honestly she’s not being truthful to anyone including herself. But she seems to think shes getting away with it because I’m not saying anything.
My specific question is about the couples counseling...I feel like now I am technically lying as well...by being silent about the hiding spot. It would bring to light that I know that she keeps lying to me and it’s destroying us.
On the flip side - by me secretly knowing this hiding spot, it seems like it’s my only way I can confirm the truth or not and where’s she’s at with all this.
obviously this all seems so freaking twisted. But I’m lost in what to do.
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Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 395
A few thoughts came to mind, from experience;
-unfortunately marriage counseling DOESN’T work when one of the partners is an active addict/alcoholic. This is because of their lying to themselves and others. Your therapist/psychologist definitely should have mentioned this from the beginning. Better off with individual therapy and/or Al-Anon (in my opinion).
-in terms of hiding... Yeah that’s what active alcoholics do. They hide booze. It’s extremely common. It’s not about you... and it’s not up to you to “try” and control it. Step back (I know, easier said than done) and stop counting bottles, drinks, hiding places. It’s honestly gonna drive you bonkers until it truly breaks you.
If you choose to live with an active alcoholic... you will live in a whirlwind of lies until they decide to clean up and get sober. You knowing about their secret stash isn’t relevant in the bigger picture, you know? They drink, they drink a lot (that’s the problem). What’s important is... do you want to continue living around all that chaos if things never change?
I used to find beer cans next to underwear, mini wine bottles in shoes... shampoo bottles... everywhere. Madness. It’s hard, so hard.
-unfortunately marriage counseling DOESN’T work when one of the partners is an active addict/alcoholic. This is because of their lying to themselves and others. Your therapist/psychologist definitely should have mentioned this from the beginning. Better off with individual therapy and/or Al-Anon (in my opinion).
-in terms of hiding... Yeah that’s what active alcoholics do. They hide booze. It’s extremely common. It’s not about you... and it’s not up to you to “try” and control it. Step back (I know, easier said than done) and stop counting bottles, drinks, hiding places. It’s honestly gonna drive you bonkers until it truly breaks you.
If you choose to live with an active alcoholic... you will live in a whirlwind of lies until they decide to clean up and get sober. You knowing about their secret stash isn’t relevant in the bigger picture, you know? They drink, they drink a lot (that’s the problem). What’s important is... do you want to continue living around all that chaos if things never change?
I used to find beer cans next to underwear, mini wine bottles in shoes... shampoo bottles... everywhere. Madness. It’s hard, so hard.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,637
Originally Posted by Milljax 
On the flip side - by me secretly knowing this hiding spot, it seems like it’s my only way I can confirm the truth or not and where’s she’s at with all this.
I agree that the couples counselling is also a waste of time. This isn't about you two as a couple is it? It's about her alcoholism. The alcoholism is her thing, nothing actually to do with you at all.
The truth is she is drinking and is going to continue to drink for the foreseeable future and there is nothing you can do about that, realistically. She will (hopefully) get some help when she is ready and not before - that's her side of the street.
Your side is your own. You have a choice, you can continue to live as you are but you may want to detach from her drinking if so because that will make you crazy. Or you can leave. Accept her just as she is, or not, that's completely up to you.
Being the drink police and badgering her about her drinking will just make you both crazy.
You didn't Cause it, can't Control it and certainly can't Cure it.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Milljax…...the way I look at it, I don't see anything wrong with you stating the extent of her drinking, as you know it. In therapy is a safe place to tell the truth.....or, it should be. ( Having said this---I agree that couples therapy is not very effective when abuse or addiction is in the picture)….
But, since you both are sitting there....alcoholism is a big issue in the marriage, so I don't see any thing wrong with saying so...it is affecting YOU very much....
While at home...there is no point in keeping tabs on how much she is drinking and where she is hiding it. There is nothing to "prove"
She knows she is drinking a LOT and you know that she is drinking a LOT....
There is no secret....you both know the basic truth.
so, stop driving your self crazy in keeping a spread sheet.
bottom line is that your wife is an alcoholic and she is doing what alcoholics do, and you have no real control over that...the question becomes...what are YOU going to do.....
But, since you both are sitting there....alcoholism is a big issue in the marriage, so I don't see any thing wrong with saying so...it is affecting YOU very much....
While at home...there is no point in keeping tabs on how much she is drinking and where she is hiding it. There is nothing to "prove"
She knows she is drinking a LOT and you know that she is drinking a LOT....
There is no secret....you both know the basic truth.
so, stop driving your self crazy in keeping a spread sheet.
bottom line is that your wife is an alcoholic and she is doing what alcoholics do, and you have no real control over that...the question becomes...what are YOU going to do.....
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,426
Dandy has a good idea. Therapy would be the place, but bottom line is your wife seems to not be interested in quitting totally. Marriage counseling doesn’t work when one partner has active addiction and is lying about it makes it even less effective.
Moderation is a myth once you’ve crossed the line. Don’t buy into any claims it is possible, because if it was lots of us drinkers would still be doing it.
We try and try and cause misery to our family and ourselves for years but things just get worse. That’s the reality we all must face in the end which is hard. Some choose alcohol over family in the end.
What is your plan B if she won’t stop? That you can control.
Moderation is a myth once you’ve crossed the line. Don’t buy into any claims it is possible, because if it was lots of us drinkers would still be doing it.
We try and try and cause misery to our family and ourselves for years but things just get worse. That’s the reality we all must face in the end which is hard. Some choose alcohol over family in the end.
What is your plan B if she won’t stop? That you can control.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
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I only did this once. And I have to admit, I did it for myself and my own sanity.
I did not say anything. However, I took all the bottles out of my XAH's hiding spot and put them on the kitchen table. Just left them there and said nothing. That way, he knew I knew. And...I also made a pact with myself. I decided I would never lie or cover up for him again. That was very good for me. So speak your truth to the counselor. I too recommend getting your own counselor.
Marriage counseling with an active addict is a waste of time. However, you can get the support you need!
I did not say anything. However, I took all the bottles out of my XAH's hiding spot and put them on the kitchen table. Just left them there and said nothing. That way, he knew I knew. And...I also made a pact with myself. I decided I would never lie or cover up for him again. That was very good for me. So speak your truth to the counselor. I too recommend getting your own counselor.
Marriage counseling with an active addict is a waste of time. However, you can get the support you need!
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Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 133
I like hopeful4's post. Just once, to show that it's truly no secret.
Nope, it won't change anything. So have no expectations that something positive will come out of it, except for it being about giving you a little bit of empowerment. It's helpful for YOU to see the reality of the situation by calling it out.
Also, I tried marriage counseling as well a few years ago and found it futile. We couldn't get anywhere because he was unwilling to address what I believed to be a serious & devastating factor in our marriage. It truly was pointless.
Nope, it won't change anything. So have no expectations that something positive will come out of it, except for it being about giving you a little bit of empowerment. It's helpful for YOU to see the reality of the situation by calling it out.
Also, I tried marriage counseling as well a few years ago and found it futile. We couldn't get anywhere because he was unwilling to address what I believed to be a serious & devastating factor in our marriage. It truly was pointless.
Last edited by flower959; 01-15-2020 at 07:19 AM. Reason: adding more about counseling
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 22
Don't let the secret hiding places to be a gauge about how much she is lying to you or how bad her drinking is. My experience is by confronting the hiding place that has backfired into conflict or even an uglier situation where the alcoholic will not listen or has a rebuttal which is a waste of time for both of you. I've also tried ignoring the hiding spots but this is tough since you know they are still drinking. Life is too short for this. I am going through the very end stages of my alcoholic partner on his deathbed. It comes down to how far are you willing to accept if the hiding places continue. Will you be able to love them unconditionally if they continue to succumb to this disease?
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actually, it is not at all uncommon for alcoholics or addicts to hide their stash - even when they live alone. it is not really about hiding from the partner, it's about addiction thriving in secrecy.
she knows she has a stash.
you know she has a stash.
i DO understand the desire to confront. and perhaps, as hopeful suggested, you do so........once. just put 'em on the kitchen counter and leave 'em there. OR NOT.
but you need to get beneath the "should i confront" or your previous question "should i tell others" - and down the root cause. your wife drinks alcoholically. and does all the stunts and tricks that addicts often - lie, manipulate, argue, deny, deflect, demoralize, threaten.
what are YOU willing to do about YOUR circumstances that is not at all based on HER doing something first. cuz that plan ain't working. and when a plan fails to work, it's time for a new plan, a new strategy.
take your control back. it's your life. right now you two are in a host/parasite relationship - she lives for her addiction and you live for trying to battle her addiction FOR HER. the harder you try, the less she has to do. the less she does, the harder you keep trying.
what if..........you gave her full autonomy of HER life back to her, hands off, and you focused solely on your own life? started driving the bus again so to speak?
she knows she has a stash.
you know she has a stash.
i DO understand the desire to confront. and perhaps, as hopeful suggested, you do so........once. just put 'em on the kitchen counter and leave 'em there. OR NOT.
but you need to get beneath the "should i confront" or your previous question "should i tell others" - and down the root cause. your wife drinks alcoholically. and does all the stunts and tricks that addicts often - lie, manipulate, argue, deny, deflect, demoralize, threaten.
what are YOU willing to do about YOUR circumstances that is not at all based on HER doing something first. cuz that plan ain't working. and when a plan fails to work, it's time for a new plan, a new strategy.
take your control back. it's your life. right now you two are in a host/parasite relationship - she lives for her addiction and you live for trying to battle her addiction FOR HER. the harder you try, the less she has to do. the less she does, the harder you keep trying.
what if..........you gave her full autonomy of HER life back to her, hands off, and you focused solely on your own life? started driving the bus again so to speak?
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Anvil...…..I like the term "host-parasite relationship".....it is not a very pretty term...but, I think it describes the co-dependent relationship pretty accurately......Since the co-dependent doesn't have a well developed sense of self.....they live through the host (often, an alcoholic)….By default, they are stuck deriving their value and meaning in life,from their host....
I have heard it said that----"When the alcoholic is drowning... their life, actually, flashes before the co-dependent"......
I have heard it said that----"When the alcoholic is drowning... their life, actually, flashes before the co-dependent"......
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
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FYI...what I found out later was that hiding place was the tip of the ice berg. After I divorced, I found booze buried in the back yard, falling out of the rafters in the garage, in the tool boxes, in the toilet tank, you name it.
I cannot even imagine his car and work hiding spots LOL. Point being, I sat that stuff on the table FOR ME. I expected nothing of him as a result. Just saying, hey, you are not getting anything over on me. I KNOW. It may be petty, but it was something I had to do, just once. This was when I was beginning to change. To take charge of some things FOR ME.
I cannot even imagine his car and work hiding spots LOL. Point being, I sat that stuff on the table FOR ME. I expected nothing of him as a result. Just saying, hey, you are not getting anything over on me. I KNOW. It may be petty, but it was something I had to do, just once. This was when I was beginning to change. To take charge of some things FOR ME.
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Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 3,767
My spouse several times quietly lined up my hidden empties on the counter. Did not say a word. I burned with shame -- yet continued to use the same hiding spots. It made no sense but the "quiet" action of my spouse was very powerful to me. I will never forget that. I hope I never do it again.
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Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 135
Originally Posted by LifeChangeNYC
A few thoughts came to mind, from experience;
-unfortunately marriage counseling DOESN’T work when one of the partners is an active addict/alcoholic. This is because of their lying to themselves and others. Your therapist/psychologist definitely should have mentioned this from the beginning. Better off with individual therapy and/or Al-Anon (in my opinion).
-in terms of hiding... Yeah that’s what active alcoholics do. They hide booze. It’s extremely common. It’s not about you... and it’s not up to you to “try” and control it. Step back (I know, easier said than done) and stop counting bottles, drinks, hiding places. It’s honestly gonna drive you bonkers until it truly breaks you.
If you choose to live with an active alcoholic... you will live in a whirlwind of lies until they decide to clean up and get sober. You knowing about their secret stash isn’t relevant in the bigger picture, you know? They drink, they drink a lot (that’s the problem). What’s important is... do you want to continue living around all that chaos if things never change?
I used to find beer cans next to underwear, mini wine bottles in shoes... shampoo bottles... everywhere. Madness. It’s hard, so hard.
-unfortunately marriage counseling DOESN’T work when one of the partners is an active addict/alcoholic. This is because of their lying to themselves and others. Your therapist/psychologist definitely should have mentioned this from the beginning. Better off with individual therapy and/or Al-Anon (in my opinion).
-in terms of hiding... Yeah that’s what active alcoholics do. They hide booze. It’s extremely common. It’s not about you... and it’s not up to you to “try” and control it. Step back (I know, easier said than done) and stop counting bottles, drinks, hiding places. It’s honestly gonna drive you bonkers until it truly breaks you.
If you choose to live with an active alcoholic... you will live in a whirlwind of lies until they decide to clean up and get sober. You knowing about their secret stash isn’t relevant in the bigger picture, you know? They drink, they drink a lot (that’s the problem). What’s important is... do you want to continue living around all that chaos if things never change?
I used to find beer cans next to underwear, mini wine bottles in shoes... shampoo bottles... everywhere. Madness. It’s hard, so hard.
I was so naive then and he was so good at snowing people. Therapy for myself became truthful and was the best thing I ever did! Do I still need meds? Yes. But I got a REAL diagnosis of C-PTSD. The meds work now and the therapy has been helpful for me setting boundaries and learning to live on MY side of the street.
My AH hides liquor too. I just usually move it to a visible spot. I don't talk about it but he knows that I know. (Other than the missing mouthwash, I cannot say that I have found anything in a month of his current sobriety) It is not up for discussion here but there will be no hiding it. Not from me and not from the kids. They need to know too.
Wishing you peace in this journey. You are not alone.
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Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 135
Originally Posted by silversky
My spouse several times quietly lined up my hidden empties on the counter. Did not say a word. I burned with shame -- yet continued to use the same hiding spots. It made no sense but the "quiet" action of my spouse was very powerful to me. I will never forget that. I hope I never do it again.
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Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 395
I tried everything. I displayed all her hidden bottles on our kitchen counter. I remember hearing her fall to the floor crying. My heart broke. She was always very honest with me about her alcoholism, but was never truly ready to stop for good (although that’s a little hard to say). Addiction is just that powerful. It’s not like biting your fingernails or promising to stop leaving your socks on the floor. Lining up bottles may make some addicts reflect for a microsecond but then a second later, the addiction comes pleading.
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Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,425
I can tell you that I have hidden alcohol everywhere and have been very secretive about it, I think mostly just out of embarrassment. I have known that my wife knew it the whole time, and I was still secretive which seems weird.
I can only speak for myself, but any confrontation over it will only compound the problem. For me, the drinking has long been seen as a way of coping with the stresses. Unless something else is done to reduce the stress levels, or whatever else is reinforcing that behavior, there is zero chance of changing the behavior pattern.
I know that I am on my own in this. Although my wife is a good person, it would never occur to her to express support in that specific way and ask if there is any way that she can help with whatever makes me want to drink. Maybe try something like that.
Good luck.
I can only speak for myself, but any confrontation over it will only compound the problem. For me, the drinking has long been seen as a way of coping with the stresses. Unless something else is done to reduce the stress levels, or whatever else is reinforcing that behavior, there is zero chance of changing the behavior pattern.
I know that I am on my own in this. Although my wife is a good person, it would never occur to her to express support in that specific way and ask if there is any way that she can help with whatever makes me want to drink. Maybe try something like that.
Good luck.
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Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 395
Definitely, do whatever works for you. You are correct on that. For me, made things worse... especially my relationship. It created a “judgmental” element... I don’t know how to explain. Like I was better than her... or like I found your stash, take that! Looking back I wish I ignored it and just stayed on my side of the street. But yes everyone and every relationship is different.
"O you must wear your rue with difference".
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,146
Marriage counseling doesn't work when one or both participants are active addicts/alcoholics. If the counselor doesn't tell you that (and you're paying them), they're just there to collect your cash and they are not helping you. Or maybe they are ignorant. In any case, it doesn't work.
In order for marriage counseling/couples counseling to work, both participants are required to be honest during the sessions, and then to leave the sessions willing to work on their marriage. In active addiction, the priority of the addict is to deny that they have a problem, and then go home and use their DOC.
The danger of this type of "therapy" with an active addict is that if the addict happens to also be a sociopath (or just really skilled at manipulation), you will end up being gas-lighted not only by the addict but also by the therapist.
Long after I stopped having nightmares about my ExAh, I kept having nightmares about our marriage counselor, who said that I needed to be more forgiving of my Ex because his headaches made him "need to use drugs" in order to "alleviate the pain" -- last I checked, meth, spice, bath salts, and beer were not headache medicine... but I was still made to feel really guilty that I didn't want to support this very, very sick person.
In fact I would tell anyone currently attending couples therapy/counseling or considering therapy with an addict to strongly reconsider not just for your sake, but for theirs. Allowing them to lie to a third party is enabling their delusions... and this may make them worse.
But because we don't have control over if they DO get worse or not... just leave them to God and get yourself to Alanon or Naranon for support. You can also post here.
In order for marriage counseling/couples counseling to work, both participants are required to be honest during the sessions, and then to leave the sessions willing to work on their marriage. In active addiction, the priority of the addict is to deny that they have a problem, and then go home and use their DOC.
The danger of this type of "therapy" with an active addict is that if the addict happens to also be a sociopath (or just really skilled at manipulation), you will end up being gas-lighted not only by the addict but also by the therapist.
Long after I stopped having nightmares about my ExAh, I kept having nightmares about our marriage counselor, who said that I needed to be more forgiving of my Ex because his headaches made him "need to use drugs" in order to "alleviate the pain" -- last I checked, meth, spice, bath salts, and beer were not headache medicine... but I was still made to feel really guilty that I didn't want to support this very, very sick person.
In fact I would tell anyone currently attending couples therapy/counseling or considering therapy with an addict to strongly reconsider not just for your sake, but for theirs. Allowing them to lie to a third party is enabling their delusions... and this may make them worse.
But because we don't have control over if they DO get worse or not... just leave them to God and get yourself to Alanon or Naranon for support. You can also post here.
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