Help with the cycle???
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Join Date: Jan 2018
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Help with the cycle???
How do you guys with adult children watch the cycle of abuse continue and detach???? Little background, AH calls DD(20) on xmas day, she yells into the phone multiple times. Call was about an hour long I thing she spoke a total of 5 minutes, and listened the rest. Immediately after the phone call threw up several times and cried in my lap for a good 2 hours. Of course Ah took this time to only victimize himself as he still will not take responsibility for what he has done to DD. Meanwhile the codependency between DS(22) is growing as AH is holding DS financially hostage for an education. DS is on the spectrum so it is especially hard to watch the manipulation he exposes himself to. Both know that it is up to them to establish their own boundaries, its just so hard to watch them get hurt again and again while navigating such a toxic situation. AH tries to talk about court proceedings with them, I will not share anything like that with them. I do not speak about AH with them, I listen when they want to talk and my response is always the same. "I'm sorry you are in this situation, what are you going to do about it?". After the phone call to my DD and AH mentioned things he has been "accused" of. I told DD For this very reason I have kept every single copy of emails, court transcripts, divorce proceedings, filings. (I have only told the truth and have not done anything I am ashamed of and even though its incredibly hard given the circumstances I have proceeded with integrity.) If at some point when this is all over they have questions or doubts they can have the file and read for themselves what exactly was said, filed, documented etc. at this point its a matter of public record but it may not always be. Other than eventually making that access available, I won't talk to them about it or their dad, I only listen and validate. He's so sick he's willing to burn his own relationships with our children to the ground to avoid reality, it's just so sad. His inability to be honest with himself and others has changed our children forever. I hate this disease!!! So much trauma and damage to my kids and there isn't a damn thing I can do to stop it. How do you guys deal with it?
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,637
In my experience there is no great way to handle this. Or at least I handled it badly (apparently) - so I'm not sure.
My experience was not all that different from yours (ex was not an alcoholic), except I didn't have to witness it after a while (the conflict), and the fallout afterward was resentment and anger not what your DD is experiencing.
In the end it was decided that I mismanaged everything and so did he (the ex) so no one ever "wins" in this. Not that I had a plan to "win" anyway.
I think it must be very difficult when you have parents that have two stories. These people that you are supposed to trust are telling you two different things. Of course perspective is involved but that isn't always taken in to account.
Possibly the only way to distance yourself (as in the child) from the conflict is to cut off (even partially) one parent, or both.
She obviously still cares about her Father and when all of this trouble turns out badly for him, it's possible the blame (or part blame) for that could land on you.
That kind of reaction to talking to him on the phone is very far from normal. My question wouldn't be why is he such an *** my question would be why does she stay on the phone and listen to it.
My only suggestion is that she might benefit a lot from therapy. Is she willing to do that?
My experience was not all that different from yours (ex was not an alcoholic), except I didn't have to witness it after a while (the conflict), and the fallout afterward was resentment and anger not what your DD is experiencing.
In the end it was decided that I mismanaged everything and so did he (the ex) so no one ever "wins" in this. Not that I had a plan to "win" anyway.
I think it must be very difficult when you have parents that have two stories. These people that you are supposed to trust are telling you two different things. Of course perspective is involved but that isn't always taken in to account.
Possibly the only way to distance yourself (as in the child) from the conflict is to cut off (even partially) one parent, or both.
She obviously still cares about her Father and when all of this trouble turns out badly for him, it's possible the blame (or part blame) for that could land on you.
That kind of reaction to talking to him on the phone is very far from normal. My question wouldn't be why is he such an *** my question would be why does she stay on the phone and listen to it.
My only suggestion is that she might benefit a lot from therapy. Is she willing to do that?
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: The Beach
Posts: 1,106
dawn, my heart breaks for your daughter.
What a cold and cruel man her father is. I hope she learns she does not have to accept $hit and abuse from ANYBODY, ever. That she needs to protect herself from her father is so upsetting. What a narcissistic jerk.
When my axh and I split I tried to make it as easy and gentle on everyone as I possibly could.(That isn't to say I didn't make mistakes, I did) But he took my good intentions and used them against me, completely throwing me under the bus and made me out to be the wicked evil witch who ripped apart the family for no real reason. (He took zero responsibility for the break down of our marriage) My son still feeds into some of that B.S. that AXH spewed. DS21 is pretty standoffish with me right now and it's painful. As much as this hurts me, it is also hurting my son but he isn't seeing it that way... yet. I hate the chaos an alcoholic parent bestows on their children.
I wish I had good advice on how to further help your kids. I think you are doing the best you can. You are being supportive, you are encouraging them to behave in healthy ways. You are not trying to impress upon them your own agenda. As young adults forging their way forward, they know you are the parent they can depend on.
I sure hope your daughter decides to take another break from her dad. No young woman should be treated like that by her main male role model. Horrendous.
What a cold and cruel man her father is. I hope she learns she does not have to accept $hit and abuse from ANYBODY, ever. That she needs to protect herself from her father is so upsetting. What a narcissistic jerk.
When my axh and I split I tried to make it as easy and gentle on everyone as I possibly could.(That isn't to say I didn't make mistakes, I did) But he took my good intentions and used them against me, completely throwing me under the bus and made me out to be the wicked evil witch who ripped apart the family for no real reason. (He took zero responsibility for the break down of our marriage) My son still feeds into some of that B.S. that AXH spewed. DS21 is pretty standoffish with me right now and it's painful. As much as this hurts me, it is also hurting my son but he isn't seeing it that way... yet. I hate the chaos an alcoholic parent bestows on their children.
I wish I had good advice on how to further help your kids. I think you are doing the best you can. You are being supportive, you are encouraging them to behave in healthy ways. You are not trying to impress upon them your own agenda. As young adults forging their way forward, they know you are the parent they can depend on.
I sure hope your daughter decides to take another break from her dad. No young woman should be treated like that by her main male role model. Horrendous.
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains
Posts: 816
The situation you describe is very disturbing to me, especially as a
ACOA. Alateen, ACOA, or alanon - do your kids go? Therapy? The factthat your daughter stays on a call for an hour with an abusive fatherand then throws up and cries for 2 hours is so unhealthy. That's a fairly black and white situation too- easy to set a boundary-
10 min on the phone and hangup, or better, none at all.
You can set boundaries too- that if she engages with AF,
you won't be available for a two hour lap crying session.
Seeing how difficult it is for adults with experience to deal with the
manipulations and gas lighting from A's, young adults like your
kids need to be somewhere (alanon/therapy) on a frequent (daily) basis so they can get real time help dealing with this monster that is
their "father".
ACOA. Alateen, ACOA, or alanon - do your kids go? Therapy? The factthat your daughter stays on a call for an hour with an abusive fatherand then throws up and cries for 2 hours is so unhealthy. That's a fairly black and white situation too- easy to set a boundary-
10 min on the phone and hangup, or better, none at all.
You can set boundaries too- that if she engages with AF,
you won't be available for a two hour lap crying session.
Seeing how difficult it is for adults with experience to deal with the
manipulations and gas lighting from A's, young adults like your
kids need to be somewhere (alanon/therapy) on a frequent (daily) basis so they can get real time help dealing with this monster that is
their "father".
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: maine
Posts: 1,548
My husband was the A. I remember at least one phone call when he wasn't making any sense, at least the half I was hearing. I just reached over and hung up the phone.
AH asked why. I said, "You've repeated the same sentence five times. You weren't making any sense. I think Joe was tired of hearing it."
I hung up a land line. These days of mobiles, it's even easier to fake static - click- you're done. Sad to have to say it, but your daughter has as much right to hang up on a toxic parent as she does a toxic friend or toxic ex-romantic partner, with or without fake static. It's time for her to learn to protect herself by disengaging. She could also say she's putting him on speaker so she doesn't have to hold the phone to her ear, (maybe he'd moderate his behavior if he was aware others could hear him) she may limit how long phone calls last, and as MLIM pointed out, you can have boundaries too.
As for your son who needs Dad's financial support, I have nothing.
I suppose either of these young adults could say, "I don't want to hear you talk trash about my other parent. Half my DNA comes from her."
AH asked why. I said, "You've repeated the same sentence five times. You weren't making any sense. I think Joe was tired of hearing it."
I hung up a land line. These days of mobiles, it's even easier to fake static - click- you're done. Sad to have to say it, but your daughter has as much right to hang up on a toxic parent as she does a toxic friend or toxic ex-romantic partner, with or without fake static. It's time for her to learn to protect herself by disengaging. She could also say she's putting him on speaker so she doesn't have to hold the phone to her ear, (maybe he'd moderate his behavior if he was aware others could hear him) she may limit how long phone calls last, and as MLIM pointed out, you can have boundaries too.
As for your son who needs Dad's financial support, I have nothing.
I suppose either of these young adults could say, "I don't want to hear you talk trash about my other parent. Half my DNA comes from her."
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 500
Originally Posted by trailmix 
In my experience there is no great way to handle this. Or at least I handled it badly (apparently) - so I'm not sure.
My experience was not all that different from yours (ex was not an alcoholic), except I didn't have to witness it after a while (the conflict), and the fallout afterward was resentment and anger not what your DD is experiencing.
In the end it was decided that I mismanaged everything and so did he (the ex) so no one ever "wins" in this. Not that I had a plan to "win" anyway.
I think it must be very difficult when you have parents that have two stories. These people that you are supposed to trust are telling you two different things. Of course perspective is involved but that isn't always taken in to account.
Possibly the only way to distance yourself (as in the child) from the conflict is to cut off (even partially) one parent, or both.
She obviously still cares about her Father and when all of this trouble turns out badly for him, it's possible the blame (or part blame) for that could land on you.
That kind of reaction to talking to him on the phone is very far from normal. My question wouldn't be why is he such an *** my question would be why does she stay on the phone and listen to it.
My only suggestion is that she might benefit a lot from therapy. Is she willing to do that?
My experience was not all that different from yours (ex was not an alcoholic), except I didn't have to witness it after a while (the conflict), and the fallout afterward was resentment and anger not what your DD is experiencing.
In the end it was decided that I mismanaged everything and so did he (the ex) so no one ever "wins" in this. Not that I had a plan to "win" anyway.
I think it must be very difficult when you have parents that have two stories. These people that you are supposed to trust are telling you two different things. Of course perspective is involved but that isn't always taken in to account.
Possibly the only way to distance yourself (as in the child) from the conflict is to cut off (even partially) one parent, or both.
She obviously still cares about her Father and when all of this trouble turns out badly for him, it's possible the blame (or part blame) for that could land on you.
That kind of reaction to talking to him on the phone is very far from normal. My question wouldn't be why is he such an *** my question would be why does she stay on the phone and listen to it.
My only suggestion is that she might benefit a lot from therapy. Is she willing to do that?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 500
Originally Posted by mylifeismine
The situation you describe is very disturbing to me, especially as a
ACOA. Alateen, ACOA, or alanon - do your kids go? Therapy? The factthat your daughter stays on a call for an hour with an abusive fatherand then throws up and cries for 2 hours is so unhealthy. That's a fairly black and white situation too- easy to set a boundary-
10 min on the phone and hangup, or better, none at all.
You can set boundaries too- that if she engages with AF,
you won't be available for a two hour lap crying session.
Seeing how difficult it is for adults with experience to deal with the
manipulations and gas lighting from A's, young adults like your
kids need to be somewhere (alanon/therapy) on a frequent (daily) basis so they can get real time help dealing with this monster that is
their "father".
ACOA. Alateen, ACOA, or alanon - do your kids go? Therapy? The factthat your daughter stays on a call for an hour with an abusive fatherand then throws up and cries for 2 hours is so unhealthy. That's a fairly black and white situation too- easy to set a boundary-
10 min on the phone and hangup, or better, none at all.
You can set boundaries too- that if she engages with AF,
you won't be available for a two hour lap crying session.
Seeing how difficult it is for adults with experience to deal with the
manipulations and gas lighting from A's, young adults like your
kids need to be somewhere (alanon/therapy) on a frequent (daily) basis so they can get real time help dealing with this monster that is
their "father".
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,637
Originally Posted by dawnrising
She is in therapy and will be for several years I imagine. For DD there is no "difference" in the stories from AH and me, as she witnessed all of it. She doesn't have to stay on the phone, she went no contact before, she just has to decide if she will do that again. She has to establish her own boundaries and feel good about that, she's a work in progress. it just stinks!
I meant more what he might say about you. You have your perspective on the relationship, he has his.
I also didn't volunteer a "side", I figured that was between me and the ex, no one else, he didn't see it that way so he chose to share his pain.
I can't remember but I assume you left so there is that and on top of that you are involved in his - trouble (not saying this is wrong) therefore you are contributing to the trouble of the Father.
It's messy. I hope at some point she takes a big break from talking to him.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 500
Originally Posted by trailmix
Yes, can't argue what's on paper.
I meant more what he might say about you. You have your perspective on the relationship, he has his.
I also didn't volunteer a "side", I figured that was between me and the ex, no one else, he didn't see it that way so he chose to share his pain.
I can't remember but I assume you left so there is that and on top of that you are involved in his - trouble (not saying this is wrong) therefore you are contributing to the trouble of the Father.
It's messy. I hope at some point she takes a big break from talking to him.
I meant more what he might say about you. You have your perspective on the relationship, he has his.
I also didn't volunteer a "side", I figured that was between me and the ex, no one else, he didn't see it that way so he chose to share his pain.
I can't remember but I assume you left so there is that and on top of that you are involved in his - trouble (not saying this is wrong) therefore you are contributing to the trouble of the Father.
It's messy. I hope at some point she takes a big break from talking to him.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I absolutely would just support her, listen to her, and reinforce that she has a choice to go no contact. If she is not ready to do that, maybe just letting her know that she has a right to tell him she is not going to discuss anything to do with the two of you, and that if he begins to speak in a negative way, she is going to end the conversation.
I had to do this w/ my XAH. I let him know I would not speak to him unless it's constructive conversation regarding our children only. And when it turned, I would simply stop responding and would not text back or speak to him. He learned over time, and now actually is pretty decent to deal with most of the time.
It took a long time and a lot of strength. Let them know no matter what they choose you support them and you are there for them.
You are doing the right things momma! Huge hugs!
I had to do this w/ my XAH. I let him know I would not speak to him unless it's constructive conversation regarding our children only. And when it turned, I would simply stop responding and would not text back or speak to him. He learned over time, and now actually is pretty decent to deal with most of the time.
It took a long time and a lot of strength. Let them know no matter what they choose you support them and you are there for them.
You are doing the right things momma! Huge hugs!
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