This is not a logical way to feel, but it hurts a bit reading...
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Originally Posted by LifeChangeNYC 
Ironically I think codies & alcoholics are BOTH stubborn. (I don’t mean to offend anyone)... But in my opinion, neither want to change — but definitely hope and want their partner to change. It seems to happen because addiction creates such a helpless feeling for everyone involved. It’s such a difficult dynamic.
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Originally Posted by Abandoned80
....addicts “consider themselves the biggest pieces of sh** that the world revolves around.”
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Originally Posted by FallenAngelina
Trying to diagnose personality disorders never helped me, but this certainly does explain every active alcoholic I've ever heard of, including "mine."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...lcoholic%3famp
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I don't think that applies to every alcoholic, they are individuals after all but, I have seen that too.
They may have started out with other issues too, the drinking could cause or contribute to the self hate.
Look at the way society looks upon "drunks", there is nothing pretty to be found there. Loud mouths, out of control, weak, unreliable etc etc.
It's no big secret why they hide it I suppose. The only thing to gain at that point is a really negative label (potentially). Now not everyone views alcoholics/alcoholism that way, but there is still that huge stigma.
They may have started out with other issues too, the drinking could cause or contribute to the self hate.
Look at the way society looks upon "drunks", there is nothing pretty to be found there. Loud mouths, out of control, weak, unreliable etc etc.
It's no big secret why they hide it I suppose. The only thing to gain at that point is a really negative label (potentially). Now not everyone views alcoholics/alcoholism that way, but there is still that huge stigma.
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That article makes my head spin. We spend soooooo much time on here trying to deeply analyze the alcoholics we love/loved... but not sure it ultimately helps. It just keeps one’s constant focus on them. I don’t know... for me, I only began to heal when I stopped trying to “figure” her (and her alcoholism) out... I then began to forgive her and myself... and ultimately started to live. I’m not her psychiatrist and I’m certainly not HER. I’m all for trying to find answers but are there any real answers that ultimately make an alcoholic situation/relationship any better? Let them live how they want to live. And live how you want to live. I think the focus needs to be more on that. But I know everyone feels differently about it. Just my feelings.
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Originally Posted by LifeChangeNYC
Let them live how they want to live. And live how you want to live. I think the focus needs to be more on that.
Ultimately, that is hopefully where everyone ends up, with at least understanding and some peace with it, but I think the path to getting there is different depending on circumstance and how much someone knows about alcoholism.
For instance someone who has been living with an alcoholic wife for 20 years might have had plenty of time to analyze what was going on, if they researched alcoholism and understand it (but of course they may still be hurt and seeking answers).
Someone who lives with someone or has a long term relationship who then issues an ultimatum might be blindsided by the result.
Or someone who was completely blindsided.
So the paths are different, different things click with different people. I think it's really helpful when people share what they know and post links and help the person to understand what went on, if that person is seeking understanding, not everyone does.
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Originally Posted by LifeChangeNYC
That article makes my head spin. We spend soooooo much time on here trying to deeply analyze the alcoholics we love/loved... but not sure it ultimately helps. It just keeps one’s constant focus on them. I don’t know... for me, I only began to heal when I stopped trying to “figure” her (and her alcoholism) out... I then began to forgive her and myself... and ultimately started to live. I’m not her psychiatrist and I’m certainly not HER. I’m all for trying to find answers but are there any real answers that ultimately make an alcoholic situation/relationship any better? Let them live how they want to live. And live how you want to live. I think the focus needs to be more on that. But I know everyone feels differently about it. Just my feelings.
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LifeChangeNYC- maybe it’s all still really somewhat fresh and raw (relatively speaking). I’m in my 40s now, and I remember when I was in my 20s , I escaped a couple of exes with (earlier stages) substance abuse issues (both didn’t get better and died, a few years back). In those cases, I remember for a couple of years I just tried to get my stability/ equilibrium back. Then came therapy (lots of focus of family of origin/ my upbringing for me), then came circling back to those situations and people, to try to better understand what happened. It took a few years before I was able to do that, though.
Shortly after came a family member’s heroin addiction, and a few other people who I’ve known for a long time slipping into some addictions , so I have found for me it has ebbed and flowed. I spent a good part of my 30s doing various types of therapy (one on one counseling, DBT, CBT, some off the grid/ life coach non conventionantype stuff).
The beginning of my 40s things were kind of peaceful, I felt like I was applying knowledge that I learned, my boundaries were better..then in 2018 my best friend died, and I was kind of weakened by that, and against my better judgment I continued communicating more with an unwell person (who I have known long term), and it brought up a lot of old stuff, so here I am back on forums again for those various reasons.
At any rate, for me it’s been good to do both. Learn about myself, but also learn about what’s out there, so you can understand and be prepared, next time a situation pops up.
Shortly after came a family member’s heroin addiction, and a few other people who I’ve known for a long time slipping into some addictions , so I have found for me it has ebbed and flowed. I spent a good part of my 30s doing various types of therapy (one on one counseling, DBT, CBT, some off the grid/ life coach non conventionantype stuff).
The beginning of my 40s things were kind of peaceful, I felt like I was applying knowledge that I learned, my boundaries were better..then in 2018 my best friend died, and I was kind of weakened by that, and against my better judgment I continued communicating more with an unwell person (who I have known long term), and it brought up a lot of old stuff, so here I am back on forums again for those various reasons.
At any rate, for me it’s been good to do both. Learn about myself, but also learn about what’s out there, so you can understand and be prepared, next time a situation pops up.
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Definitely no judgements here to growth or healing. Just how I’ve been feeling. Hazy... exactly how I feel. I feel addiction, in general creates such a hole in the mud for both the addict and those in a relationship with an addict. Don’t get me wrong, I spent plenty of time trying to psycho-analyze my ex girlfriend, her addiction, the constant abuse. I cried so much I thought my eye balls would roll away. But after 5-6 months... I then (for me) said hell no, this is getting almost obsessive on my part... and for what good? Was I trying to come to terms with the daily nightmare I had endured for 6 years? Was I trying to convince myself as to why I actually stayed or felt guilt? Was I trying to justify her insane behavior and our toxic relationship? Ultimately I wanted her back, us in a “healthy” relationship minus the addiction, seizures, suicide attempts, verbal abuse, manipulation, control, obsession. Yeah. That’s just not living In reality, at all.
I used to work in a war zone in Africa. I learned a lot from that experience. One being, too much talking or focus on the horrors of one’s life or past can also have a negative effect on growth. Especially when you have ZERO control over something as horrific as abuse or addiction.
Just thinking out loud...
I used to work in a war zone in Africa. I learned a lot from that experience. One being, too much talking or focus on the horrors of one’s life or past can also have a negative effect on growth. Especially when you have ZERO control over something as horrific as abuse or addiction.
Just thinking out loud...
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PDM22- you’ve been through a lot... sending much love. You brought up many valid points and experiences.
Our past and upbringing can most certainly be a major catalyst or starting point for pain. Mine too was exactly that.
I don’t have any answers... only what I needed to do to heal. Yes everyone is different. Much respect.
I guess all this has been on mind because I’ve started dating again. I’m so aware this time around of my inability to change the women I date and slowly learn about. It’s quite interesting and challenging after living/loving an alcoholic.
Our past and upbringing can most certainly be a major catalyst or starting point for pain. Mine too was exactly that.
I don’t have any answers... only what I needed to do to heal. Yes everyone is different. Much respect.
I guess all this has been on mind because I’ve started dating again. I’m so aware this time around of my inability to change the women I date and slowly learn about. It’s quite interesting and challenging after living/loving an alcoholic.
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^ wow about the war zone in Africa :/. Yeah, being in a situation of dysfunction really is like that too, whether you grew up like that, or got entangled in one as adult, or both (the childhood instability/ chaos really does set you up for repeated patterns in later life and you have to relearn so much). I’m with you though, on the get-out-and-stay-out, if you can. Why stay in the war zone if you don’t have to. Interesting though, how a person can acclimate to it. I work with adults diagnosed with various mental illnesses, and in my younger adult years spent time in some politically unsettled areas. I’m kind of over the traveling at the moment, but interesting, looking back, I was pretty comfortable in the upheaval at the time. Same with chaos situations at work, I get what might appear to be oddly centered in them. In my personal life I don’t have tolerance for that kind of thing anymore though, I tend to notice warning signs and get myself out early now (friendships as well). Thankfully :/
And much love to you too, I know you’ve just been through a horrific situation as well, and I’m happy for you that you got yourself out.
And much love to you too, I know you’ve just been through a horrific situation as well, and I’m happy for you that you got yourself out.
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Emeraldgirl me and my X were at the stage also where y and urs are. However, ask yourself, if he told you tomorrow how he has another woman/partner, would you be equally happy to hear from him when you do? if yes, then i suppose youre over him. If however, you would be emotionally hurt, then I wouldnt suggest it as much. And even you, if you wish to have your own life and another partner, then does this prevent you from fully turning the page so to speak. Just thinking out loud
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Wanted to share something with you guys, in case it helps anyone reading. Well, I got my contact - I received an apology, albeit one that I considered to be inadequate in content and quite flippant in tone. Against my better judgment I chose to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he was sincere and doing the best he could. And he may have been, but I still ended up feeling surprisingly disappointed, hurt and rejected when he went silent again. I don’t actually know if this has anything to do with alcoholism or if it’s just how he operates.
It made me realise that if what we really want from our person is a genuine apology and genuine attempts made to rebuild trust/the relationship, it feels just as bad (possibly worse) to receive communication that doesn’t meet those requirements as it does to receive no communication at all. No one has a good time with this.
I’ve got A LOT of hard work to do on my self esteem.
It made me realise that if what we really want from our person is a genuine apology and genuine attempts made to rebuild trust/the relationship, it feels just as bad (possibly worse) to receive communication that doesn’t meet those requirements as it does to receive no communication at all. No one has a good time with this.
I’ve got A LOT of hard work to do on my self esteem.
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I'm sorry to hear that hazy, that's hurtful.
I don't know how the contact came about, but it is something you wanted and as unproductive as it was, at least you know how it would go.
The silent treatment is pretty common with alcoholics and addicts, they are coping, they are drinking and that takes time and energy. That doesn't leave a lot of time for other people (generally - or rather for relationships with other people).
Anyway, I don't know enough of your story to really comment more just wanted to say we are here for support.
I don't know how the contact came about, but it is something you wanted and as unproductive as it was, at least you know how it would go.
The silent treatment is pretty common with alcoholics and addicts, they are coping, they are drinking and that takes time and energy. That doesn't leave a lot of time for other people (generally - or rather for relationships with other people).
Anyway, I don't know enough of your story to really comment more just wanted to say we are here for support.
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Thanks trailmix! I’m ok, just a temporary blow and I’m bouncing back. I thought it might be useful to others dealing with the “I’d feel better (validated) if they contacted me” feelings, I honestly did think at times that any contact would be better than no contact and I now know that not to be true.
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Originally Posted by hazy
Thanks trailmix! I’m ok, just a temporary blow and I’m bouncing back. I thought it might be useful to others dealing with the “I’d feel better (validated) if they contacted me” feelings, I honestly did think at times that any contact would be better than no contact and I now know that not to be true.
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Originally Posted by Abandoned80
Thank you for sharing that hazy. I’m so sorry that didn’t go better than it did, but I just wonder if it’s even possible for a lot of them to really communicate remorse in an authentic way, especially if they’ve been deep in denial or deflection. I wonder what even prompted them to reach out? Still haven’t heard anything from my ex since I wrote this original post, and really don’t think I ever will. I’ve accepted that I need to just be at peace with that. I’m actually quite proud of myself that I’ve resisted every urge to reach out to them!
I think you're right that some people can't handle difficult conversations or feelings - so they avoid completely (no contact) or give only a little bit. I think it's a shame but that's their choice.
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[QUOTE=hazy;7370334]I agree that it's a huge accomplishment and act of kindness to yourself! You're not choosing the easy path, you're looking after yourself and that's so wonderful.
Thank you hazy! I really do think “oh it would be so nice to just talk to him” about once a day, and then I thankfully snap out of it. I hope with time that thought stops crossing my mind.
Thank you hazy! I really do think “oh it would be so nice to just talk to him” about once a day, and then I thankfully snap out of it. I hope with time that thought stops crossing my mind.
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