He is drinking and lying
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Join Date: Apr 2018
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Provided he eventually comes clean and wants to get sober again
A healthy action, just for this day, could be too completely take this thought and scrap it!
One day at a time.
Protection of yourself and your child needs to be the priority. What can you do today? An Al-Anon meeting? Plan dinner with friends so you and your daughter are in safe, supportive company? Pack bags and think about a trip for you and your daughter? A new action could be sorting things out physically to pack two bags and give them to a friend to keep with them if you become aware of it being a good idea to temporarily "move into a safe space" (as in, the atmosphere here is toxic and daughter and I could maybe benefit by physically leaving and being somewhere else for a few hours/moments/etc.)
A healthy action, just for this day, could be too completely take this thought and scrap it!
One day at a time.
Protection of yourself and your child needs to be the priority. What can you do today? An Al-Anon meeting? Plan dinner with friends so you and your daughter are in safe, supportive company? Pack bags and think about a trip for you and your daughter? A new action could be sorting things out physically to pack two bags and give them to a friend to keep with them if you become aware of it being a good idea to temporarily "move into a safe space" (as in, the atmosphere here is toxic and daughter and I could maybe benefit by physically leaving and being somewhere else for a few hours/moments/etc.)
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Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 17
Today I am meeting with a family law attorney to see where I stand financially as well as protecting our daughter. 10 years ago it was easy to prove his drinking with the duis etc., but now he looks like a model citizen and very giving in our community. With his drinking only sporadic at this moment it makes it difficult to prove. But I’m sure if he keeps this up it will become more frequent.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
CT4......to give you my response to some of your questions.....
"What if he decides to come clean and get sober again?".
Don't expect him to "come clean". He probably won't....and, EVEN if he did...I have seen lots and lots of alcoholics sit in bars and openly admit to alcoholism....
It is typical for alcoholics to make promises over and over and over...sometimes for decades....banking on the trust that the non-alcoholic partner is desperate enough to hold onto that hope....In some cases, I think the mean it at the moment that they say it...but, the alcoholism pull is so strong that they can't let go of the drink. That pull is powerful.
Another word....You ask "what boundaries are reasonable"....The right question would be "What boundaries are necessary for the best welfare of me and my daughter?"
There is a subtle, yet, very important difference, here....
One makes RULES for other in terms of what might be reasonable or not, to expect of them.
One makes BOUNDARIES for one's own self to protect themselves and own best interests...…
When dealing with rules made for another...a certain amount of co-operation is assumed...…
When dealing with boundaries....it is incumbent on yourself to enforce those boundaries....no matter what you have to do! Boundaries come from within yourself, so to speak.....
****Another important point...do not announce a boundary that you are unable or unwilling to enforce or carry through on....Otherwise, they learn that your words are hollow....
I have so much more that I would lik e to share with you...but, right now, my fingers are cramping up.....lol....I need a break....and a cup of tea.....
"What if he decides to come clean and get sober again?".
Don't expect him to "come clean". He probably won't....and, EVEN if he did...I have seen lots and lots of alcoholics sit in bars and openly admit to alcoholism....
It is typical for alcoholics to make promises over and over and over...sometimes for decades....banking on the trust that the non-alcoholic partner is desperate enough to hold onto that hope....In some cases, I think the mean it at the moment that they say it...but, the alcoholism pull is so strong that they can't let go of the drink. That pull is powerful.
Another word....You ask "what boundaries are reasonable"....The right question would be "What boundaries are necessary for the best welfare of me and my daughter?"
There is a subtle, yet, very important difference, here....
One makes RULES for other in terms of what might be reasonable or not, to expect of them.
One makes BOUNDARIES for one's own self to protect themselves and own best interests...…
When dealing with rules made for another...a certain amount of co-operation is assumed...…
When dealing with boundaries....it is incumbent on yourself to enforce those boundaries....no matter what you have to do! Boundaries come from within yourself, so to speak.....
****Another important point...do not announce a boundary that you are unable or unwilling to enforce or carry through on....Otherwise, they learn that your words are hollow....
I have so much more that I would lik e to share with you...but, right now, my fingers are cramping up.....lol....I need a break....and a cup of tea.....
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Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 17
I met with a family law attorney today. The same attorney that got me sole custody with supervised visits when our daughter was a baby, before he got sober. The attorney was shocked that I was there. I said for eight years my husband has been amazing and my rock. Now he is spiraling. Anyway it turns out that even with a full-time job and support from him I will not be able to stay in our home, and will have to probably move out of the area. Which then makes it tricky for custody issues. I told him I was just gathering information and I wasn’t ready to do anything yet. He said to start making notes of everything, but he really hopes that my husband gets his life together.
I found out today that last month my husband went away on a brothers two-week trip that they always take. Evidently my husband was drinking every single night. Nobody thought a phone call to me was warranted. I know it’s not shocking or could make a difference, but it’s seeming that my husband has no problem drinking in front of others in the last few months, but nobody told me or warned me. I’m not mad, just disappointed it’s so many people can cover for an alcoholic that has ruined lives already.
I found out today that last month my husband went away on a brothers two-week trip that they always take. Evidently my husband was drinking every single night. Nobody thought a phone call to me was warranted. I know it’s not shocking or could make a difference, but it’s seeming that my husband has no problem drinking in front of others in the last few months, but nobody told me or warned me. I’m not mad, just disappointed it’s so many people can cover for an alcoholic that has ruined lives already.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,637
So child support plus alimony plus your wages does not equal a mortgage payment and bills, that's unfortunate, however, once the house is sold (should it come to that) you may have enough money to buy a house of your own perhaps?
I'm not sure why you would need to move out of the area? Is that an accommodation or work consideration?
In thinking about the Brother's and the trip. I don't know what I would do in that instance you know? If myself and my two siblings went on a trip and one of them were an alcoholic and they were drinking, I don't know that I would be calling either of my BILs to let them know.
Not that I would be trying to keep a secret, just that I would figure it's none of my business what a grown up sibling chooses to do?
I'm not sure why you would need to move out of the area? Is that an accommodation or work consideration?
In thinking about the Brother's and the trip. I don't know what I would do in that instance you know? If myself and my two siblings went on a trip and one of them were an alcoholic and they were drinking, I don't know that I would be calling either of my BILs to let them know.
Not that I would be trying to keep a secret, just that I would figure it's none of my business what a grown up sibling chooses to do?
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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CT4...…..I am assuming that you must live in a high income area (high rent area) or a more remote location (work considerations)…..
Lol...it is nice for the lawyer to SAY that "he hopes your husband gets his life together". But, I'll bet my hat that he doesn't know how alcoholism REALLY works.....lol....
Lol...it is nice for the lawyer to SAY that "he hopes your husband gets his life together". But, I'll bet my hat that he doesn't know how alcoholism REALLY works.....lol....
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
hi CT4, please don't let the lawyer's advice paralyse you. Step one, no matter what happens, is to get a job. It doesn't matter what it is or whether it's full-time; it will get you out of the house and give you some independence and something to put on a resume. Many wise employers know that women like you are a great asset for reliability and common-sense. Another way to go is to find a technical area that doesn't require a degree that you can study for. Put some effort into looking around at what's available.
There are very few divorces that don't involve selling the home, and people can become far too attached to real estate. They will often cite the children as the reason why they can't move, but children are very flexible in that area. Please don't ever let your DD over-influence financial decisions - she won't be the one paying the bills.
I suggest you put together a fund for leaving, secretly of course. You can save from the house-keeping, your personal expenses and by selling anything you don't need. This will give you much more freedom of action.
I know it's a bit of a mountain to climb, but at least you can prepare yourself.
There are very few divorces that don't involve selling the home, and people can become far too attached to real estate. They will often cite the children as the reason why they can't move, but children are very flexible in that area. Please don't ever let your DD over-influence financial decisions - she won't be the one paying the bills.
I suggest you put together a fund for leaving, secretly of course. You can save from the house-keeping, your personal expenses and by selling anything you don't need. This will give you much more freedom of action.
I know it's a bit of a mountain to climb, but at least you can prepare yourself.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
Agreeing with the posts about getting ANY kind of a job, just to get out there and have something to go on a resume. I have always worked, usually making as much or more than XAH. When I ended things w/him, I had just gotten a much better job, yet I was still terrified about the financial part. I can't imagine how scary it must be for someone in your situation.
One thing that I and others here have found is that often we are actually better off financially once we separate from our A's. We often have no clue how much money is really going down the rat hole of their addictions. I was astounded to find that, while we were saving something (I insisted on that), of the remainder, we were essentially living on my income while he spent his on his addictions. It was really no more difficult to make ends meet on my own than it was when he was here with me.
I've bounced through several jobs this past year, stories too long to go into, but in the process, I found this handy paycheck calculator. You can choose your state, then enter your wages and number of exemptions, then put in any pretax deductions such as health insurance/401k as well as any post-tax deductions like union dues. In my experience, this gives a VERY accurate prediction of what your real paycheck will look like.
https://smartasset.com/taxes/paycheck-calculator
I will also mention that I got my health insurance through the Marketplace for almost the entire year, and it cost me nothing. Yes, it was a high deductible, but at least I had something in case of emergency. Checking into this might help w/your financial concerns as well as making it possible for you to take a job at a smaller place that may not offer health insurance.
One thing that I and others here have found is that often we are actually better off financially once we separate from our A's. We often have no clue how much money is really going down the rat hole of their addictions. I was astounded to find that, while we were saving something (I insisted on that), of the remainder, we were essentially living on my income while he spent his on his addictions. It was really no more difficult to make ends meet on my own than it was when he was here with me.
I've bounced through several jobs this past year, stories too long to go into, but in the process, I found this handy paycheck calculator. You can choose your state, then enter your wages and number of exemptions, then put in any pretax deductions such as health insurance/401k as well as any post-tax deductions like union dues. In my experience, this gives a VERY accurate prediction of what your real paycheck will look like.
https://smartasset.com/taxes/paycheck-calculator
I will also mention that I got my health insurance through the Marketplace for almost the entire year, and it cost me nothing. Yes, it was a high deductible, but at least I had something in case of emergency. Checking into this might help w/your financial concerns as well as making it possible for you to take a job at a smaller place that may not offer health insurance.
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Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 17
Thank you all! I so appreciate the wisdom. I was definitely discouraged after leaving the attorney, but I sort of knew ahead of time what the numbers would be. We do live in a very expensive area unfortunately. The attorney did say since it wasn’t a dire emergency now to start stashing some cash away and putting my ducks in a row. Take notes, save money, get myself healthy. I think that will make me feel more in control. I am going to look for a part-time job. Problems are summer, school vacations etc. Attorney did say no weekends or times to make husband responsible for daughter when I work. it’s hard to prove a custody danger case later when I have left her with him.
I had a wake up call last night and I sort of felt at peace after (beware, it may not last). The drinking was brought up in conversation and he immediately went to defensive. Flat out looked me in the eye and said he had one beer on Thanksgiving, had a shot at his daughter’s wedding in August and nothing in between. I know for a fact all of that is al lies. Not to mention that one beer or one shot is not sobriety. He calmed himself down and said he is not going to drink anymore and he does not want to go back to that life. I believe his intentions are good. I know he doesn’t want to go back there, but the pull of this addiction is powerful. I realize without a lot of self reflection, and help he’s just going to more underground. I looked at him in the eyes again and said I will not go back to this life. Yes, he’s a big boy and he can drink when he wants to drink but I don’t want to be around it nor will our daughter. Except during special occasions, he has not been drinking at home. Reflecting on the past few months he has made a lot of excuses to leave for the night (saying he’s working out of town) and most likely does it there. For the most part, besides his guilt driven anger he is fine at home if I play the game. During our conversation last night I felt this snap. I am going to do my best to detach from what he is doing and playing detective. It’s exhausting and consuming. I have a beautiful 11-year-old, three older adult amazing kids, and four beautiful grandchildren. I have been so distracted in the last few weeks that I have barely been functional. This weekend I am not going to worry that he is at his brothers drinking. I am going to enjoy the weekend of peace with my daughter.
just a heads up… I may be back on here soon complaining that things are out of control. But for now, I have to do this for me. Or try anyway!
I had a wake up call last night and I sort of felt at peace after (beware, it may not last). The drinking was brought up in conversation and he immediately went to defensive. Flat out looked me in the eye and said he had one beer on Thanksgiving, had a shot at his daughter’s wedding in August and nothing in between. I know for a fact all of that is al lies. Not to mention that one beer or one shot is not sobriety. He calmed himself down and said he is not going to drink anymore and he does not want to go back to that life. I believe his intentions are good. I know he doesn’t want to go back there, but the pull of this addiction is powerful. I realize without a lot of self reflection, and help he’s just going to more underground. I looked at him in the eyes again and said I will not go back to this life. Yes, he’s a big boy and he can drink when he wants to drink but I don’t want to be around it nor will our daughter. Except during special occasions, he has not been drinking at home. Reflecting on the past few months he has made a lot of excuses to leave for the night (saying he’s working out of town) and most likely does it there. For the most part, besides his guilt driven anger he is fine at home if I play the game. During our conversation last night I felt this snap. I am going to do my best to detach from what he is doing and playing detective. It’s exhausting and consuming. I have a beautiful 11-year-old, three older adult amazing kids, and four beautiful grandchildren. I have been so distracted in the last few weeks that I have barely been functional. This weekend I am not going to worry that he is at his brothers drinking. I am going to enjoy the weekend of peace with my daughter.
just a heads up… I may be back on here soon complaining that things are out of control. But for now, I have to do this for me. Or try anyway!
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
CT4...….I strongly encourage you not to "leave the forum"...….I encourage you to read some, everyday, and post on other people's threads.
This is a forum for helping each other.
I have been on this forum for A long time, now.....and, have made fourteen and one half thousand posts. I have notices a strong pattern over this time.....those who STAY on the forum and participate, seem to be the o nes who grab onto the brass ring and go forward in their recovery from the effects of alcoholism of their loved ones. True, everyone is on their own timeline...but, it seems that the ones who hold on are the ones, who, eventually, say that "SR" helped to change my life....
Just as you may have benefitted from what others have posted for you...there are many many others who read the forum and will benefit from your ongoing experiences....
Tenacity will be your friend …….
Did you know that we have an extensive library of excellent articles on this forum? They cover all aspects of alcoholism and the effects on the loved ones.
You will never...never...find another collection like this one!
There are over one hundred articles ….enough for you to read and digest one every single day for over l00 days.
From these articles, you will find your feelings validated and you will draw inner strength ……
This "library" is contained in the "stickies" at the top of the main page---just above the threads....
For your convenience, I am going to give you a direct link to these articles....
This is a forum for helping each other.
I have been on this forum for A long time, now.....and, have made fourteen and one half thousand posts. I have notices a strong pattern over this time.....those who STAY on the forum and participate, seem to be the o nes who grab onto the brass ring and go forward in their recovery from the effects of alcoholism of their loved ones. True, everyone is on their own timeline...but, it seems that the ones who hold on are the ones, who, eventually, say that "SR" helped to change my life....
Just as you may have benefitted from what others have posted for you...there are many many others who read the forum and will benefit from your ongoing experiences....
Tenacity will be your friend …….
Did you know that we have an extensive library of excellent articles on this forum? They cover all aspects of alcoholism and the effects on the loved ones.
You will never...never...find another collection like this one!
There are over one hundred articles ….enough for you to read and digest one every single day for over l00 days.
From these articles, you will find your feelings validated and you will draw inner strength ……
This "library" is contained in the "stickies" at the top of the main page---just above the threads....
For your convenience, I am going to give you a direct link to these articles....
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
CT4....here is the link to those articles
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...c-reading.html (Classic Reading)
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...c-reading.html (Classic Reading)
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 17
Oh I’m not leaving the forum! Heck no! It has been my lifesaver in the last few days, and I hope I can contribute at some point. I was talking about disengaging with my husband a bit. I feel like I’m playing 007 detective on what he’s doing, when he’s doing it and where he’s doing it. I can’t live that life right now. As of now he’s not drinking on a normal day at home. Thanksgiving was odd. Is he grumpy and irritable? Yes. But until I figure out what I’m going to do, and how to do it then I’m going to make my whole life for our daughter the best I can. Obviously, if he starts doing stuff around us or at home I will I have to draw a new boundary. Trust me, if I didn’t have to worry about finances or our daughter being with him, I would be out of here in a heartbeat.
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Location: where the streets have no name
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Originally Posted by dandylion 
CT4...…..I suggest that you detach yourself from your efforts/desire for him to admit his drinking to you. You are the last person that he is likely to admit to drinking. LOL....I have seen alcoholics admit to drinking, while they are lifting the glass to their lips....
You know what you know, and you don't need his admission to go forth with what is best for you and your daughter.
Trust what you KNOW....
Don't be swayed by an admission of drinking. There is a big difference between an "admission"....and quitting drinking.
Also, don't be fooled by the promise to "get help". Actions speak louder than words.
This is a slippery slope of false hope for the non-alcoholic spouse. It is not uncommon for the alcoholic to make just enough half-measures to keep the spouse off their back. Meeting with a counselor and attending occasional AA meetings. Lying or minimizing to the counselor---blaming all on the non-alcoholic spouse....sitting in AA meetings but not really absorbing the material. There is a saying...."Sitting in a garage does not make one a car"....
I wholly agree to proceed with caution with the counselor....many good counselors are not experienced in working with addicts or alcoholics. This requires specialixed training and experience in alcohoilism.
It is generally true that few marriage therapists will see a couple IF they know the extent of alcoholic or drug abuse. There are actually good reasons for this.
They will insist that the alcohol drinking be curtailed before working with a couple. They know that the therapy won't work in these situations.
If this counselor is not really skilled with alcoholics...he might wind her around his little finger and paint you as the Bad Guy in the marriage....
I think that your daughter would benefit from being out of an alcoholic home before she hits the teen years....Living in an alcoholic home is far more damaging to a child...any child. I can gurantee you that she knows more about what is going on than you assume that she does....
If he has been miserable for you to be around...you can bet that she is m iserable and scared, also....
One safe, predictable, stable parent will give her the best chance, in life. You are a role model for her....
The energy spent on the alcoholic spouse is best spent o n parenting the child.....After all, it is the children that are most affected by the alcoholism.....even more than you....!
You know what you know, and you don't need his admission to go forth with what is best for you and your daughter.
Trust what you KNOW....
Don't be swayed by an admission of drinking. There is a big difference between an "admission"....and quitting drinking.
Also, don't be fooled by the promise to "get help". Actions speak louder than words.
This is a slippery slope of false hope for the non-alcoholic spouse. It is not uncommon for the alcoholic to make just enough half-measures to keep the spouse off their back. Meeting with a counselor and attending occasional AA meetings. Lying or minimizing to the counselor---blaming all on the non-alcoholic spouse....sitting in AA meetings but not really absorbing the material. There is a saying...."Sitting in a garage does not make one a car"....
I wholly agree to proceed with caution with the counselor....many good counselors are not experienced in working with addicts or alcoholics. This requires specialixed training and experience in alcohoilism.
It is generally true that few marriage therapists will see a couple IF they know the extent of alcoholic or drug abuse. There are actually good reasons for this.
They will insist that the alcohol drinking be curtailed before working with a couple. They know that the therapy won't work in these situations.
If this counselor is not really skilled with alcoholics...he might wind her around his little finger and paint you as the Bad Guy in the marriage....
I think that your daughter would benefit from being out of an alcoholic home before she hits the teen years....Living in an alcoholic home is far more damaging to a child...any child. I can gurantee you that she knows more about what is going on than you assume that she does....
If he has been miserable for you to be around...you can bet that she is m iserable and scared, also....
One safe, predictable, stable parent will give her the best chance, in life. You are a role model for her....
The energy spent on the alcoholic spouse is best spent o n parenting the child.....After all, it is the children that are most affected by the alcoholism.....even more than you....!
I agree. detachment and re-realizing their behaviors are the result of a sick brain. Don't take anything he says personally. Sounds like you already have the necessary tools from past experiences.
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