how do you forgive
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 2
how do you forgive
yourself for leaving.
my partner of 20 years is struggling with her alcoholism. i only recognized she was an alcoholic about 5 years ago. she was an accomplished hider....missing liquor, hidden bottles, caught lies, etc. she went to rehab, regular meetings, etc. and was sober about 2 years and then started to relapse, skipping work, more lies, wrecked car, etc. finally had to ask her to leave ... more rehab and now she doesn't live with me. shes lost her job about a month out of rehab. she regularly attends meetings, shes read all the books, but she just cant kick it. shes lost everything. i cant help her, its the worst feeling. i feel like i am helpless. she is so fragile. i feel like i am making it worse by leaving her but i just cant keep watching. i dont know how to forgive myself.
my partner of 20 years is struggling with her alcoholism. i only recognized she was an alcoholic about 5 years ago. she was an accomplished hider....missing liquor, hidden bottles, caught lies, etc. she went to rehab, regular meetings, etc. and was sober about 2 years and then started to relapse, skipping work, more lies, wrecked car, etc. finally had to ask her to leave ... more rehab and now she doesn't live with me. shes lost her job about a month out of rehab. she regularly attends meetings, shes read all the books, but she just cant kick it. shes lost everything. i cant help her, its the worst feeling. i feel like i am helpless. she is so fragile. i feel like i am making it worse by leaving her but i just cant keep watching. i dont know how to forgive myself.
Life is good
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,036
i feel like i am helpless.
Serenity Prayer
“God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
courage to change the things I can,
and wisdom to know the difference.”
It's been a part of 12 step recovery groups for a reason. It works. I started by saying it often throughout the day.
Sitting with some quiet time, reading it slowly, repeating each word several times and sometimes with a dictionary to look up all the individual word meanings have had great benefits for me.
Regarding the book The Way of Serenity: Finding Peace and Happiness in the Serenity Prayer by Jonathan Morris:
"This book has beyond helpful. We lost our son 7 years ago to alcoholism and since then I've struggled with grief, pain, guilt and anger. Although being very familiar with The Serenity Prayer, I've never taken it apart and actually applied it to my life. I've copied many of Father Morris's prayers at the end of the chapters onto small cards and I carry them with me. Questioning God and the taking of our son has been an ongoing struggle. While reading the book, I began to feel relieved, unburdened and refreshed. Thank you, Father Morris, for this wonderful gift." - online review
I'm sorry for what you're going through. I wish you peace. I'm glad you're here.
Serenity Prayer
“God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
courage to change the things I can,
and wisdom to know the difference.”
It's been a part of 12 step recovery groups for a reason. It works. I started by saying it often throughout the day.
Sitting with some quiet time, reading it slowly, repeating each word several times and sometimes with a dictionary to look up all the individual word meanings have had great benefits for me.
Regarding the book The Way of Serenity: Finding Peace and Happiness in the Serenity Prayer by Jonathan Morris:
"This book has beyond helpful. We lost our son 7 years ago to alcoholism and since then I've struggled with grief, pain, guilt and anger. Although being very familiar with The Serenity Prayer, I've never taken it apart and actually applied it to my life. I've copied many of Father Morris's prayers at the end of the chapters onto small cards and I carry them with me. Questioning God and the taking of our son has been an ongoing struggle. While reading the book, I began to feel relieved, unburdened and refreshed. Thank you, Father Morris, for this wonderful gift." - online review
I'm sorry for what you're going through. I wish you peace. I'm glad you're here.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 980
I tried everything to help my addict. After years of trying, in the end it all boiled down to save myself or die continuing with her. For sure I was not helping her at all. Nothing got better in her life.
I didn't cause anything with her. She did it all - of her own free will. She alone makes her life choices. For the good or bad of it. It is what it is.
After leaving her, there are a lot of residual issues which I deal with. I never felt any need to forgive my self for leaving. It had become a very destructive situation. I had to leave.
Maybe you had no choice left but to leave. If that's the case then you need to step way back & look at your relationship from a different perspective.
I didn't cause anything with her. She did it all - of her own free will. She alone makes her life choices. For the good or bad of it. It is what it is.
After leaving her, there are a lot of residual issues which I deal with. I never felt any need to forgive my self for leaving. It had become a very destructive situation. I had to leave.
Maybe you had no choice left but to leave. If that's the case then you need to step way back & look at your relationship from a different perspective.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,629
Hi fdsa, I'm sorry for what brings you here, glad you found SR though.
Yes, what a terrible feeling that must be.
Obviously you feel protective of her and I understand that. The words - You didn't Cause it, can't Control it, can't Cure is (the 3 c's) might sound trite right now but they are true.
Sadly, if you have a SO, friend, family member with some type of mental illness, whether that is depression, anxiety, OCD or alcoholism, we all want to help, if that person wants help. Barring that we hope to support them in some way. The kicker with alcoholism is that it is so very destructive, to the alcoholic and to all those that surround him or her.
That's the biggest challenge.
How long can a person support another person whereby their very support might be a real negative in their getting well and seeking help? What a terrible spot to be in. To top it off, alcoholism affects everyone in its vicinity. I'm sure you have been through the wringer.
As for the guilt perhaps the best way to look at it is, imagine you just stayed and hung on. Where would you be a year from now, two years, five years? What would your mental health look like? Above everything, you must look after and protect yourself. Throwing yourself under the bus to cope with someone's addiction serves absolutely no one, not them and not you.
Every one of us has a limit to how much abuse of our mental well being we can take. You obviously reached yours. There is no shame in that, no reason to reprimand yourself and really nothing to forgive.
Does she have mental health support? Therapy, psychiatrist? I ask because alcoholism is a complicated disorder. Most alcoholics don't get to be alcoholics for no reason. I think it's rare that you just happen to be a partier and oops get addicted to alcohol. I'm sure it happens but people who have a compulsion to over-drink who then become addicts, there is usually a reason (self medicating depression for instance or for anxiety, social anxiety etc).
Getting is sober is great, healing, getting in to recovery is a different matter.
Now, whether this is something you can help steer her toward, that's your call of course and only you know whether that is even worth trying at this point, but it is perhaps something you can help with if you think it is truly helpful (without getting emotionally involved in it).
Bottom line, what are you trying to forgive? Saving yourself?
Yes, what a terrible feeling that must be.
Obviously you feel protective of her and I understand that. The words - You didn't Cause it, can't Control it, can't Cure is (the 3 c's) might sound trite right now but they are true.
Sadly, if you have a SO, friend, family member with some type of mental illness, whether that is depression, anxiety, OCD or alcoholism, we all want to help, if that person wants help. Barring that we hope to support them in some way. The kicker with alcoholism is that it is so very destructive, to the alcoholic and to all those that surround him or her.
That's the biggest challenge.
How long can a person support another person whereby their very support might be a real negative in their getting well and seeking help? What a terrible spot to be in. To top it off, alcoholism affects everyone in its vicinity. I'm sure you have been through the wringer.
As for the guilt perhaps the best way to look at it is, imagine you just stayed and hung on. Where would you be a year from now, two years, five years? What would your mental health look like? Above everything, you must look after and protect yourself. Throwing yourself under the bus to cope with someone's addiction serves absolutely no one, not them and not you.
Every one of us has a limit to how much abuse of our mental well being we can take. You obviously reached yours. There is no shame in that, no reason to reprimand yourself and really nothing to forgive.
Does she have mental health support? Therapy, psychiatrist? I ask because alcoholism is a complicated disorder. Most alcoholics don't get to be alcoholics for no reason. I think it's rare that you just happen to be a partier and oops get addicted to alcohol. I'm sure it happens but people who have a compulsion to over-drink who then become addicts, there is usually a reason (self medicating depression for instance or for anxiety, social anxiety etc).
Getting is sober is great, healing, getting in to recovery is a different matter.
Now, whether this is something you can help steer her toward, that's your call of course and only you know whether that is even worth trying at this point, but it is perhaps something you can help with if you think it is truly helpful (without getting emotionally involved in it).
Bottom line, what are you trying to forgive? Saving yourself?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 2
thanks for your honest replies. it is just so hard to cut ties with her. i know i am a strong person and she is not. she is a good person and i want to be her rock. i want to protect her. i am having a hard time accepting that in this situation i am helpless and i cannot. i am having a harder time accepting that she is helpless.
but i can see that one road leads to nowhere. i have to take a new path. i am taking that path. its just so hard to swim away while she is drowning.
she is currently attending daily aa meetings, has a sponsor, and is attending intensive outpatient therapy. I have asked her to seek council/ a psychologist. She had one at one point, but doesnt currently have one. also, she just lost her job so she will lose her health care coverage which will severely limit her options.
but i can see that one road leads to nowhere. i have to take a new path. i am taking that path. its just so hard to swim away while she is drowning.
she is currently attending daily aa meetings, has a sponsor, and is attending intensive outpatient therapy. I have asked her to seek council/ a psychologist. She had one at one point, but doesnt currently have one. also, she just lost her job so she will lose her health care coverage which will severely limit her options.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,629
Ugh, what a time to lose her job.
You know, you can read other's previous posts and view which threads they have started by clicking on their name (right above their avatar/picture if they have one) and choosing their threads or posts.
I would really recommend that you read Hardlesson's threads. That man tried everything for the woman he wanted to protect, I would say short of getting a kitchen sink but he did that too.
I'll let you read it and decide what you think, but it really is eye opening and perhaps you can relate to it a bit.
I don't know if she receives any mental health care at outpatient or if it's all sobriety focused but that probably will never be enough. I don't know what stage she is at but is it possible she might attend an ER and asked to be admitted for a psych evaluation? Maybe that is what it will take, maybe she needs to be in that kind of environment with that kind of help.
Again, you didn't Cause it, can't Control and cant Cure it and I am in no way suggesting that any of this is your obligation. If you are ready to walk away you are ready to walk away and that is that, you really, really do need to look after yourself, that is job 1.
While you may be very strong even you have you limits right? Sounds like you may have reached them.
You know, you can read other's previous posts and view which threads they have started by clicking on their name (right above their avatar/picture if they have one) and choosing their threads or posts.
I would really recommend that you read Hardlesson's threads. That man tried everything for the woman he wanted to protect, I would say short of getting a kitchen sink but he did that too.
I'll let you read it and decide what you think, but it really is eye opening and perhaps you can relate to it a bit.
I don't know if she receives any mental health care at outpatient or if it's all sobriety focused but that probably will never be enough. I don't know what stage she is at but is it possible she might attend an ER and asked to be admitted for a psych evaluation? Maybe that is what it will take, maybe she needs to be in that kind of environment with that kind of help.
Again, you didn't Cause it, can't Control and cant Cure it and I am in no way suggesting that any of this is your obligation. If you are ready to walk away you are ready to walk away and that is that, you really, really do need to look after yourself, that is job 1.
While you may be very strong even you have you limits right? Sounds like you may have reached them.
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Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 980
Our addicts are not helpless. All they have to do is seriously choose to get help & seriously choose to change their life. There is tons of help out there for them today.
Mine didn't want help. She didn't want to change anything. She did at times to placate the legal authorities appear to be getting help. It was no more than a smoke screen on her part.
Because she truly doesn't want to change - does that make her helpless? I think not. She might be hopeless - but helpless no!
Mine didn't want help. She didn't want to change anything. She did at times to placate the legal authorities appear to be getting help. It was no more than a smoke screen on her part.
Because she truly doesn't want to change - does that make her helpless? I think not. She might be hopeless - but helpless no!
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
fdsa…….your staying for 20 years did not prevent her from drinking.
There is, also, the fact/[possibility that she may have a dual diagnosis.....some other issues,in addition to the alcoholism, that she has not addressed....
This is not uncommon....to have a dual diagnosis....sometimes, called "co-occurring diagnosis"...…
If this is true...and, BOTH conditions are not treated....then, the prognosis is fr more dim.....
As an example....a frequent issue is sexual abuse in the past. If not properly addressed, through the right kinds of therapy, the damage is ongoing. Many people self treat with alcohol or drugs.
This is even more true of men alcoholics. And, they are even more inclined to never tell anyone or seek treatment.....
I know that you feel responsible for her...but, remember that you also have responsibility to take care of yourself. Do you think that it is the right thing for you to martyr yourself for a person's alcoholism?
You are entitled to have happiness in your life....
It is normal and human to feel sad for another person's suffering....no matter what the reason....
Just because it feels very sad, doesn't mean that yiou have done the wrong thing....
Even if you sacrificed yourself and stayed with her.....you would still feel sad that she is destroying her life with alcohol....
There is, also, the fact/[possibility that she may have a dual diagnosis.....some other issues,in addition to the alcoholism, that she has not addressed....
This is not uncommon....to have a dual diagnosis....sometimes, called "co-occurring diagnosis"...…
If this is true...and, BOTH conditions are not treated....then, the prognosis is fr more dim.....
As an example....a frequent issue is sexual abuse in the past. If not properly addressed, through the right kinds of therapy, the damage is ongoing. Many people self treat with alcohol or drugs.
This is even more true of men alcoholics. And, they are even more inclined to never tell anyone or seek treatment.....
I know that you feel responsible for her...but, remember that you also have responsibility to take care of yourself. Do you think that it is the right thing for you to martyr yourself for a person's alcoholism?
You are entitled to have happiness in your life....
It is normal and human to feel sad for another person's suffering....no matter what the reason....
Just because it feels very sad, doesn't mean that yiou have done the wrong thing....
Even if you sacrificed yourself and stayed with her.....you would still feel sad that she is destroying her life with alcohol....
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
there is a term in the Big Book of AA: an easier, softer way.
what you see as failure and destruction in her life might just be her choosing the easier, softer way. to you, to most "regular" folk it seems like the wheels are coming off and she's cartwheeling downhill straight to the ditch. but for her? not having a job, not having a partner, not having much in the way of responsibility or obligation, for her there may be something quite comfortable in all that. no one expects much of her. drinking again won't be a surprise to anyone. it is perhaps HER easier, softer way.
getting sober, facing the wreckage of one's life choices, rebuilding trust and reputation and bank account, not drinking no matter come what may - THAT is a tough row to hoe. getting sober might be the easiest part - STAYING sober, well that's is indeed another thing.
there is a solution. she can find it if she looks earnestly. but she may not see the benefits of the trade off. some do, some do not.
what you see as failure and destruction in her life might just be her choosing the easier, softer way. to you, to most "regular" folk it seems like the wheels are coming off and she's cartwheeling downhill straight to the ditch. but for her? not having a job, not having a partner, not having much in the way of responsibility or obligation, for her there may be something quite comfortable in all that. no one expects much of her. drinking again won't be a surprise to anyone. it is perhaps HER easier, softer way.
getting sober, facing the wreckage of one's life choices, rebuilding trust and reputation and bank account, not drinking no matter come what may - THAT is a tough row to hoe. getting sober might be the easiest part - STAYING sober, well that's is indeed another thing.
there is a solution. she can find it if she looks earnestly. but she may not see the benefits of the trade off. some do, some do not.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 122
It's hard
I'm not a regular AA goer (I prefer SMART F&F) but I do like the 3 Cs. I echo what everyone else here to just keep reminding yourself that.
I was terrified my ex was going to commit suicide the first week after I broke up. Infact he did try to...twice. I don't know whether it was serious but none the less I was really shaken. I am still dealing with the feelings of abandonment (something which my ex did insinuate prior to breaking up which he knew would get to me).
Like what hardlessons had said though, there is plenty of help out there and like alot of other mental health issues unless they want to do something about it earnestly (and I mean earnestly, not just a quick fix to get you back) you can't do anything.
You have a right to a good and healthy life too, remember that. It is not selfish to want that. Take care.
I was terrified my ex was going to commit suicide the first week after I broke up. Infact he did try to...twice. I don't know whether it was serious but none the less I was really shaken. I am still dealing with the feelings of abandonment (something which my ex did insinuate prior to breaking up which he knew would get to me).
Like what hardlessons had said though, there is plenty of help out there and like alot of other mental health issues unless they want to do something about it earnestly (and I mean earnestly, not just a quick fix to get you back) you can't do anything.
You have a right to a good and healthy life too, remember that. It is not selfish to want that. Take care.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 395
It’s very rough. Unfortunately takes time and firm boundaries. For me, lots of therapy too. I suffered so much guilt! I left my ex girlfriend 7 months ago, at midnight as she was screaming suicidal threats & had massive seizures the week prior! She was in a drunken rage. I was done & left with nothing. But that guilt... kept stabbing my soul!
Wish I could say something to ease your pain.
It just takes time and lots of self healing.
Wish I could say something to ease your pain.
It just takes time and lots of self healing.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
Nothing much to add to what others have said, except that it is really true that you can do nothing to help someone who has decided to organize their life around continued drinking. I know that it's debatable whether losing your job, getting kicked out of your house, etc., can be seen as conscious, voluntary choices, but as long as the actions she is taking are actions which preserve her ability to drink at all costs - you (we) are helpless.
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,966
Ask yourself; If she cheated on you with another person(multiple times) would you be so 'forgiving'? At the end of the day, it's basically the same thing. You are being 'robbed' from the person who you fell in love with and that's not cool, nor acceptable behavior. Some call it a disease but, at the end of the day it's a choice between getting/working with help to get 'better' or actively choosing to continue to do it.
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: maine
Posts: 1,546
Originally Posted by fdsa 
i feel like i am making it worse by leaving her but i just cant keep watching.
We had a man at work, I'll call him Robert. There was something off about him, he was a bully, treated his subordinates badly, that kind of thing. The owner had given him tons of chances to shape up, over literally, years. Finally, Robert was fired. Things went downhill for Robert, fast. Girlfriend threw him out, Car dealership calling work because he was defaulting on his loan. Mental illness had overtaken him.
In hindsight (because that's always 20/20) I've wondered what would have happened if the Owner hadn't been so understanding? If there had been real consequences years sooner in his decline, maybe it would have been different. He ended up getting electroconvulsive therapy (Yes, it's still done) and spending some months living with a relative, and then was moved to a homeless shelter. That's the last I heard.
If, when Owner said, "Get some help Robert, of you're fired," he actually backed that up and fired him two years sooner, or five? Would Robert have gotten the help he needed while he was still functional enough to make a go of it? I don't know.
Anvilhead's explanation makes sense, too.
Last edited by velma929; 12-02-2019 at 05:12 AM. Reason: I can spell if my fingers aren't too fat
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