What is the difference between going No-Contact and Ghosting someone?
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What is the difference between going No-Contact and Ghosting someone?
I realize of course that some people need to escape to a safe place without letting the addict know that they are leaving as some situations are truly dangerous (mostly for women but probably for some men too). However going No- Contact seems to be best instigated with a conversation with the alcoholic about what you are doing and why. Also good to let them know if they continue to contact you that you will block them.
My qualifier would often just disappear. I have seen other posters here struggle with the anxiety of having the alcoholic in their life disappear and not respond to any attempts to contact. This seems like a very different situation than setting up a time of no-contact.
Thoughts?
My qualifier would often just disappear. I have seen other posters here struggle with the anxiety of having the alcoholic in their life disappear and not respond to any attempts to contact. This seems like a very different situation than setting up a time of no-contact.
Thoughts?
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I agree. I would hope no-contact would have some kind of conversation preceding it.
The very thought of "ghosting" someone is horrendous I think.
I also think if you are involved with an addict, be that romantically or as a friend or a family member, them going silent for a period of time will happen. Now, how much you are willing to put up with that - well.
I think in all cases there has to be a reason given. Whether that is, I want to drink alone for 3 days or I want to BE alone for 3 days, these are things that have to be discussed beforehand so the person isn't left wondering ie: sometimes I just have to be alone. Ok, well then say so or at least answer an - are you ok - text.
But, alcoholics are unreliable and horribly self-centered (generally).
The very thought of "ghosting" someone is horrendous I think.
I also think if you are involved with an addict, be that romantically or as a friend or a family member, them going silent for a period of time will happen. Now, how much you are willing to put up with that - well.
I think in all cases there has to be a reason given. Whether that is, I want to drink alone for 3 days or I want to BE alone for 3 days, these are things that have to be discussed beforehand so the person isn't left wondering ie: sometimes I just have to be alone. Ok, well then say so or at least answer an - are you ok - text.
But, alcoholics are unreliable and horribly self-centered (generally).
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I guess I thought of ghosting as something that is done during the first dating period. If the first dates aren't going in the direction you would want some people choose to run away vs being up front.
If there was an actual relationship, and things end, and there are no children, there is no reason to stay in contact.
My EXAH told people I ghosted him. I'd told him numerous times that if we were to divorce I wouldn't stay friends with him. I had as much contact as was needed to complete the divorce. I guess he thought after years of abuse and infidelity I would stick around for more.
The A's disappear because that is what they do when things are hard (usually into a bottle).
If there was an actual relationship, and things end, and there are no children, there is no reason to stay in contact.
My EXAH told people I ghosted him. I'd told him numerous times that if we were to divorce I wouldn't stay friends with him. I had as much contact as was needed to complete the divorce. I guess he thought after years of abuse and infidelity I would stick around for more.
The A's disappear because that is what they do when things are hard (usually into a bottle).
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It's about intent. My mother would have called it "ghosting" (if she knew them term) when I went No Contact. A conversation about it was not possible in my circumstance, and even if it were, she would not have heard me.
Everyone has to do what they think is right, but they also have to do what is best for themselves. The alcoholic (or narcissist, or toxic friend, or emotional vampire, or whatever) is going to perceive it however they are going to perceive it, when you explain yourself or not.
Everyone has to do what they think is right, but they also have to do what is best for themselves. The alcoholic (or narcissist, or toxic friend, or emotional vampire, or whatever) is going to perceive it however they are going to perceive it, when you explain yourself or not.
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Its an interesting subject. I have found a quote that explains how i feel in relation to it the more i think of it, and which i strive for in that sense nowadays:
" The best day of your life is the one you decide your life is your own. No appologies or excuses. No one to lean on, rely on, or blame. The gift is yours-it is an amazing journey-and you alone are responsible for the quality of it. This is the day your life really begins."
" The best day of your life is the one you decide your life is your own. No appologies or excuses. No one to lean on, rely on, or blame. The gift is yours-it is an amazing journey-and you alone are responsible for the quality of it. This is the day your life really begins."
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I feel ghosting is suddenly breaking all contact and communication both active and passive with little to no warning or explanation. Intent tells whether this is a helpful or hurtful. Helpful reasons would be to protect yourself from abuse; emotional, verbal, and/or physical, manipulation, negative legal or financial ramifications. Harmful reasons would be to manipulate, scare, deprive non-harmful contact with children, or cause negative legal and financial hardships.
No contact would be seeking the above after a discussion or giving an explanation to the other party.
I briefly attempted to ghost my XAGF because I was angry towards her and I was afraid she would manipulate me into engaging with her. I failed quickly and she successfully engaged with me. I then tried to establish no contact after a brief explanation and she again manipulated me and then walked over my boundaries. I again tried no contact without having another discussion and it has worked so far.
I had to cease active communication via text and telephone and passive by suspending social media. If needed, you can ask friends and family to not update you or discuss that person around you. This was easy for me as she has essentially severed all contact with our friends and families.
No contact would be seeking the above after a discussion or giving an explanation to the other party.
I briefly attempted to ghost my XAGF because I was angry towards her and I was afraid she would manipulate me into engaging with her. I failed quickly and she successfully engaged with me. I then tried to establish no contact after a brief explanation and she again manipulated me and then walked over my boundaries. I again tried no contact without having another discussion and it has worked so far.
I had to cease active communication via text and telephone and passive by suspending social media. If needed, you can ask friends and family to not update you or discuss that person around you. This was easy for me as she has essentially severed all contact with our friends and families.
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@FosillHunter my X did the same-severed all contact with family and friends. Which however hurts me to this day, as i actually got alone nicely with everyone. He wasnt rude or anything i believe so, he just moved on thinking how its normal never to invite me again-to either hear about them nor contact them. And i was left pretty much isolated as I mainly was hanging out with his family and friends to begin with.
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To me... it doesn’t matter what you chose or label in terms of going NC, if it’s healthy for you and the alcoholic in your life is destroying your soul... do it!
Because here’s the deal... no words or explanation of why you need “space to heal” or why you need to leave/break up will EVER be good ENOUGH to an alcoholic!!
It’s a broken record!!
You can sit them down a hundred times “to talk”... leave beautifully written, emotional letters... endless emails explaining your current state of chaos/needing to leave... but does it ever really matter... stick in or change??? No, because they need to always suck you back in and usually they are too drunk during those conversations to even remember them.
Yes I’m sure there’s exceptions and maybe some ways are healthier than others but there’s always a breaking point.
My ex would probably still say that I never sat her down to explain why I left!? Hmmm... well, actually that conversation happened hundreds of times. I always said I would leave for the final time if her 24/7 drinking and our fighting continued. My point, they’ll always be angry if/when you go NC or leave suddenly. It’s sad... and unfortunate but you rarely... if ever... can do “normal” endings like leaving calmly/fairly with addicts. In my opinion, it’s rare and nearly impossible.
Sure ghosting someone isn’t ideal but living with an addict is torture. Sorry, just what I think and have lived through. And they know exactly that their drinking or drug use is out of control... sure they may scream otherwise but we’re adults... you don’t need to always have all the answers. If you hate your life, hate your relationship...... leave it & send them a postcard later with no return address!
Because here’s the deal... no words or explanation of why you need “space to heal” or why you need to leave/break up will EVER be good ENOUGH to an alcoholic!!
It’s a broken record!!
You can sit them down a hundred times “to talk”... leave beautifully written, emotional letters... endless emails explaining your current state of chaos/needing to leave... but does it ever really matter... stick in or change??? No, because they need to always suck you back in and usually they are too drunk during those conversations to even remember them.
Yes I’m sure there’s exceptions and maybe some ways are healthier than others but there’s always a breaking point.
My ex would probably still say that I never sat her down to explain why I left!? Hmmm... well, actually that conversation happened hundreds of times. I always said I would leave for the final time if her 24/7 drinking and our fighting continued. My point, they’ll always be angry if/when you go NC or leave suddenly. It’s sad... and unfortunate but you rarely... if ever... can do “normal” endings like leaving calmly/fairly with addicts. In my opinion, it’s rare and nearly impossible.
Sure ghosting someone isn’t ideal but living with an addict is torture. Sorry, just what I think and have lived through. And they know exactly that their drinking or drug use is out of control... sure they may scream otherwise but we’re adults... you don’t need to always have all the answers. If you hate your life, hate your relationship...... leave it & send them a postcard later with no return address!
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i think there is a big difference between slipping out the side door to go do what addicts do (get loaded) and any INTENT to cut off contact.
haven't we all let a call go to voicemail because right NOW we just don't wanna deal? haven't we ever taken a few days to reply to a friend's email because of our internal reaction to the content or problem?
making the choice to cease contact with another person is personal. and at no time does it REQUIRE a permission slip or statement of intent, especially given the wide array of circumstances that may call it. however if we are going to "claim" the right to cease contact with others, we have to allow that others also have that right - even if it is.............US who gets shut out.
haven't we all let a call go to voicemail because right NOW we just don't wanna deal? haven't we ever taken a few days to reply to a friend's email because of our internal reaction to the content or problem?
making the choice to cease contact with another person is personal. and at no time does it REQUIRE a permission slip or statement of intent, especially given the wide array of circumstances that may call it. however if we are going to "claim" the right to cease contact with others, we have to allow that others also have that right - even if it is.............US who gets shut out.
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I agree, it does not require anyone's permission. I think it's about your own personal values.
I would always let someone know and I would expect the same in return, I think that is just common human decency (I'm not talking about abuse etc, of course).
Ghosting, to me, is a hostile act.
I would always let someone know and I would expect the same in return, I think that is just common human decency (I'm not talking about abuse etc, of course).
Ghosting, to me, is a hostile act.
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Originally Posted by FionnaPerSe 
@FosillHunter my X did the same-severed all contact with family and friends. Which however hurts me to this day, as i actually got alone nicely with everyone. He wasnt rude or anything i believe so, he just moved on thinking how its normal never to invite me again-to either hear about them nor contact them. And i was left pretty much isolated as I mainly was hanging out with his family and friends to begin with.
NYC,
I think there is some situational dependence. Active destruction may need drastic and immediate action. Mine was a drawn out dissolution of our relationship that was leaving me hurting and full of unanswered questions.
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Like, Gingerpeach, I'd thought ghosting was tied to the early stages of couple-hood. And I thought that no-contact is specific to relationships where one member of the relationship is acutely invested in not respecting the other person's boundaries or feelings or being. (i.e. the person who goes no-contact is doing so because the other person's repeated hurtful behavior.)
Intent and perspective are interesting and sometimes very conflicting things, and when you throw addiction into the mix it changes the whole conversation. Intention isn't always obvious to others no matter how obvious it it to the person with the intention. What I would guess is someone's intention may be close to what they intended but I could still misunderstand part of it, or I could be completely off base. Neither person in the situation knows what the other's intention is unless there's a conversation that is actively engaged in by both parties and the intention is part of the discussion.
I think it's fairly rare that an alcoholic or addict who is active in their addiction is 100% engaged in any conversation that touches on how their drinking or using affects someone else. So even if the party trying to go no contact tries to have a conversation about it, the active A may still see no-contact as ghosting. Or ditching or not caring or just being mean or....
Intent and perspective are interesting and sometimes very conflicting things, and when you throw addiction into the mix it changes the whole conversation. Intention isn't always obvious to others no matter how obvious it it to the person with the intention. What I would guess is someone's intention may be close to what they intended but I could still misunderstand part of it, or I could be completely off base. Neither person in the situation knows what the other's intention is unless there's a conversation that is actively engaged in by both parties and the intention is part of the discussion.
I think it's fairly rare that an alcoholic or addict who is active in their addiction is 100% engaged in any conversation that touches on how their drinking or using affects someone else. So even if the party trying to go no contact tries to have a conversation about it, the active A may still see no-contact as ghosting. Or ditching or not caring or just being mean or....
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Originally Posted by theuncertainty
Like, Gingerpeach, I'd thought ghosting was tied to the early stages of couple-hood. And I thought that no-contact is specific to relationships where one member of the relationship is acutely invested in not respecting the other person's boundaries or feelings or being. (i.e. the person who goes no-contact is doing so because the other person's repeated hurtful behavior.)
Intent and perspective are interesting and sometimes very conflicting things, and when you throw addiction into the mix it changes the whole conversation. Intention isn't always obvious to others no matter how obvious it it to the person with the intention. What I would guess is someone's intention may be close to what they intended but I could still misunderstand part of it, or I could be completely off base. Neither person in the situation knows what the other's intention is unless there's a conversation that is actively engaged in by both parties and the intention is part of the discussion.
I think it's fairly rare that an alcoholic or addict who is active in their addiction is 100% engaged in any conversation that touches on how their drinking or using affects someone else. So even if the party trying to go no contact tries to have a conversation about it, the active A may still see no-contact as ghosting. Or ditching or not caring or just being mean or....
Intent and perspective are interesting and sometimes very conflicting things, and when you throw addiction into the mix it changes the whole conversation. Intention isn't always obvious to others no matter how obvious it it to the person with the intention. What I would guess is someone's intention may be close to what they intended but I could still misunderstand part of it, or I could be completely off base. Neither person in the situation knows what the other's intention is unless there's a conversation that is actively engaged in by both parties and the intention is part of the discussion.
I think it's fairly rare that an alcoholic or addict who is active in their addiction is 100% engaged in any conversation that touches on how their drinking or using affects someone else. So even if the party trying to go no contact tries to have a conversation about it, the active A may still see no-contact as ghosting. Or ditching or not caring or just being mean or....
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Originally Posted by Bekindalways
My qualifier would often just disappear. I have seen other posters here struggle with the anxiety of having the alcoholic in their life disappear and not respond to any attempts to contact. This seems like a very different situation than setting up a time of no-contact.
Regarding your qualifier disappearing, when I’ve been on the receiving end of that, I take that to mean I’m being ignored because the person is drunk or high, and their phone is shut off, or they are deliberately not looking at messages, because they don’t feel like dealing with anyone. Not sure that I think of this kind of behavior as “ghosting”? Being “back burnered” maybe?
I have a friend who struggles with some substance abuse stuff and she will do this, just shut off her phone and not respond to people for days. We’ve talked about this, and now I mostly don’t reach out too often first, and she comes to me instead. I know oftentimes it doesn’t end up being so amicable. I have another long time friend (long distance) who does thing kind of thing, and I don’t reach out as often anymore, I just got too sick of it.
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Thanks for all your thoughts on this. It is something I've been turning over mentally.
In the earlier of the many cycles of getting together and breaking up with my qualifier, I would always go talk to him to break up. At the time I was trying to do the right thing. However looking back, I'm not so sure it wasn't a bit of me trying to control a situation I couldn't. In the big picture with the addiction coming our way, it probably didn't matter what I did or how I did it as long as I got away from all contact with him.
After he got sober we were back in some contact. I never did any of the conversations about us; instead he would just eventually stop contacting me. Usually after some promise to call next weekend or something along those lines. I suppose this could be considered ghosting but I just knew this was how he was. It wasn't anything personal, he was just caught up in his own life and I wasn't a priority for him. In truth, there was no reason I should be a priority in his life.
Anyhow thanks again all for your thoughts. Alcoholism and codependency do put a different slant on relationships.
In the earlier of the many cycles of getting together and breaking up with my qualifier, I would always go talk to him to break up. At the time I was trying to do the right thing. However looking back, I'm not so sure it wasn't a bit of me trying to control a situation I couldn't. In the big picture with the addiction coming our way, it probably didn't matter what I did or how I did it as long as I got away from all contact with him.
After he got sober we were back in some contact. I never did any of the conversations about us; instead he would just eventually stop contacting me. Usually after some promise to call next weekend or something along those lines. I suppose this could be considered ghosting but I just knew this was how he was. It wasn't anything personal, he was just caught up in his own life and I wasn't a priority for him. In truth, there was no reason I should be a priority in his life.
Anyhow thanks again all for your thoughts. Alcoholism and codependency do put a different slant on relationships.
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My experience with prayer, mediation, playfulness, looking up words in dictionaries and stepping back a bit from a subject keeps bringing greater/deeper acceptance of there being many meanings, intents and ways to look at anything.
Ghosting, meaning from Urban dictionary:
When a person cuts off all communication with their friends or the person they're dating, with zero warning or notice before hand. You'll mostly see them avoiding friend's phone calls, social media, and avoiding them in public.
I haven't seen Tom in 3 months. I think he may be ghosting me.
That sounds much like simply going "no contact".
Thank you for this topic. I may start looking at ghosting in a more positive, playful way.
Having made use of No Contact as a part of my recovery from FOO, and for a long period in 2018 from my alcoholic husband, I'm very grateful for it!
Ghosting, meaning from Urban dictionary:
When a person cuts off all communication with their friends or the person they're dating, with zero warning or notice before hand. You'll mostly see them avoiding friend's phone calls, social media, and avoiding them in public.
I haven't seen Tom in 3 months. I think he may be ghosting me.
That sounds much like simply going "no contact".
Going No Contact means that you have had enough. You don't need to explain you're ending contact. No Contact means that you know there is no point going around in a three-ring circus of arguments anymore. It means that you know you have no choice other than to end the relationship, because it is not getting better, resolution isn’t ever going to be reached and that there is simply no point in trying – because nothing works.
More than this, No Contact is an act of self-love. It means, ‘I love me enough to save my life.'
More than this, No Contact is an act of self-love. It means, ‘I love me enough to save my life.'
Having made use of No Contact as a part of my recovery from FOO, and for a long period in 2018 from my alcoholic husband, I'm very grateful for it!
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Originally Posted by Bekindalways
Thanks for all your thoughts on this. It is something I've been turning over mentally.
In the earlier of the many cycles of getting together and breaking up with my qualifier, I would always go talk to him to break up. At the time I was trying to do the right thing. However looking back, I'm not so sure it wasn't a bit of me trying to control a situation I couldn't. In the big picture with the addiction coming our way, it probably didn't matter what I did or how I did it as long as I got away from all contact with him.
After he got sober we were back in some contact. I never did any of the conversations about us; instead he would just eventually stop contacting me. Usually after some promise to call next weekend or something along those lines. I suppose this could be considered ghosting but I just knew this was how he was. It wasn't anything personal, he was just caught up in his own life and I wasn't a priority for him. In truth, there was no reason I should be a priority in his life.
Anyhow thanks again all for your thoughts. Alcoholism and codependency do put a different slant on relationships.
In the earlier of the many cycles of getting together and breaking up with my qualifier, I would always go talk to him to break up. At the time I was trying to do the right thing. However looking back, I'm not so sure it wasn't a bit of me trying to control a situation I couldn't. In the big picture with the addiction coming our way, it probably didn't matter what I did or how I did it as long as I got away from all contact with him.
After he got sober we were back in some contact. I never did any of the conversations about us; instead he would just eventually stop contacting me. Usually after some promise to call next weekend or something along those lines. I suppose this could be considered ghosting but I just knew this was how he was. It wasn't anything personal, he was just caught up in his own life and I wasn't a priority for him. In truth, there was no reason I should be a priority in his life.
Anyhow thanks again all for your thoughts. Alcoholism and codependency do put a different slant on relationships.
I’ve known people like this too, where if they say they are going to call, it doesn’t mean that they will, they are just saying it. But I also know some that even if I’m not necessarily a priority, or in their every day bubble and life, if they say they are going to call me, they follow through and do it. It’s a nice quality, I appreciate and respect follow through in a person.
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Originally Posted by pdm22
That kind of thing I would consider lack of follow through, or maybe unreliability? But yeah, depending on the nature of the relationship and how things went, when you find yourself later dealing with things like that again, it just reinforces why you went no contact or broke up in the first place. It’s like, why am I dealing with this again, even on a “small” scale?
I’ve known people like this too, where if they say they are going to call, it doesn’t mean that they will, they are just saying it. But I also know some that even if I’m not necessarily a priority, or in their every day bubble and life, if they say they are going to call me, they follow through and do it. It’s a nice quality, I appreciate and respect follow through in a person.
I’ve known people like this too, where if they say they are going to call, it doesn’t mean that they will, they are just saying it. But I also know some that even if I’m not necessarily a priority, or in their every day bubble and life, if they say they are going to call me, they follow through and do it. It’s a nice quality, I appreciate and respect follow through in a person.
When he would stop communicating, I would not pursue him as it just didn't seem worth it. The upside of the situation was it saved me any heart burnings and the effort of having to break off things with him.
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^ yes the overall pattern of how people are, and being it back to self and how you would be in those situations. I personally wouldn’t expect anyone to put up with me if I wasn’t following through on phone calls or responding to them, or just treating someone badly overall. Sure we all have our moments where we might lapse and make mistakes, but when it becomes a habit, it’s a problem.
As far as people doing their best, I remember not that long ago watching Russell Brand interview someone on the topic of, are people doing their best? And the woman he was interviewing said that it was found in some study, that the most compassionate people were also found to be the ones with the strongest boundaries. Which makes sense, because if your boundaries are solid, you’re going to be viewing people’s behaviors from a detached place, and not getting pulled into their s**t*, or putting up with things that hurt you. So in that sense, I agree that good boundaries and compassion go hand-in-hand.
As far as the doing their best part, I’m reminded of a Barbara Walters interview with Mary Kay Letorneau from years back (remember her? The woman who went to prison for getting involved with her 12 year old student and everything that followed?), where she was asked “was it worth it” and Mary Kay said she didn’t look at life that way. She said she looks at it as whether she is doing her best or not, and said she feels like she does her best in every situation. So sometimes when I’m trying to wrap my mind around some really crazy behavior and asking myself that, is the person doing their best, I think well maybe, but maybe it’s like Mary Kay Letoreanu’s best? It’s really messed up, but maybe based with what they have to work with, or what they are dealing with, maybe that’s their best?
As far as people doing their best, I remember not that long ago watching Russell Brand interview someone on the topic of, are people doing their best? And the woman he was interviewing said that it was found in some study, that the most compassionate people were also found to be the ones with the strongest boundaries. Which makes sense, because if your boundaries are solid, you’re going to be viewing people’s behaviors from a detached place, and not getting pulled into their s**t*, or putting up with things that hurt you. So in that sense, I agree that good boundaries and compassion go hand-in-hand.
As far as the doing their best part, I’m reminded of a Barbara Walters interview with Mary Kay Letorneau from years back (remember her? The woman who went to prison for getting involved with her 12 year old student and everything that followed?), where she was asked “was it worth it” and Mary Kay said she didn’t look at life that way. She said she looks at it as whether she is doing her best or not, and said she feels like she does her best in every situation. So sometimes when I’m trying to wrap my mind around some really crazy behavior and asking myself that, is the person doing their best, I think well maybe, but maybe it’s like Mary Kay Letoreanu’s best? It’s really messed up, but maybe based with what they have to work with, or what they are dealing with, maybe that’s their best?
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