Not sure if I am giving up too easily
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You need not be ashamed that you decided to go visit him at rehab. This is your life & you have to do what you have to do. No different than me & the rest of forum members.
As example - I detached from her in June of 2017. Over the next year we only interacted several times by text and or voice. Im not sure exactly why but I decided in June 2018 that I wanted to see her. We set up a convenient time to meet (during the week after my work). She showed up about an hour & half late which is typical for her. Her hair had wild color highlights. I was mad by the time she arrived. While there she had absolutely nothing meaningful to say. I only stayed for like 20 minutes then said I was tired & had to go. Was a total waste of my time. But it was something I felt I needed to do.
I hope you don't load yourself up with too much pressure fixing parts of your life which you are not happy with. As I read it, I didn't see anything which is of life or death importance. I do think its good you recognize what needs to be fixed.
As example - I detached from her in June of 2017. Over the next year we only interacted several times by text and or voice. Im not sure exactly why but I decided in June 2018 that I wanted to see her. We set up a convenient time to meet (during the week after my work). She showed up about an hour & half late which is typical for her. Her hair had wild color highlights. I was mad by the time she arrived. While there she had absolutely nothing meaningful to say. I only stayed for like 20 minutes then said I was tired & had to go. Was a total waste of my time. But it was something I felt I needed to do.
I hope you don't load yourself up with too much pressure fixing parts of your life which you are not happy with. As I read it, I didn't see anything which is of life or death importance. I do think its good you recognize what needs to be fixed.
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^ Hardlessons, interesting how getting some distance can bring such clarity, especially when you see the person again after some time apart. Also funny sometimes what ends up being the straw that broke the camel’s back; how often it can just end up being some random or “nothing” incident. “Nothing”, as in not anything a person didn’t put up with or experience before, but all of a sudden it feels like such profound bs, and you decide enough is enough. :/
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pdm22
Before her & I met at this last meeting, she was considerate enough to tell me & send some pictures of this crazy hair color. She didn't want it to be a complete shock to my system She is so thoughtful. LOL
That was the last time I saw her & close to the last time I spoke to her. FYI that meeting wasn't the straw that broke the camel's back. Camel had been broken down long before that last meeting.
Heaps of profound BS - yes for years. Doesn't wash off quickly.
Distance away from our addicts does bring clarity.
Before her & I met at this last meeting, she was considerate enough to tell me & send some pictures of this crazy hair color. She didn't want it to be a complete shock to my system She is so thoughtful. LOL
That was the last time I saw her & close to the last time I spoke to her. FYI that meeting wasn't the straw that broke the camel's back. Camel had been broken down long before that last meeting.
Heaps of profound BS - yes for years. Doesn't wash off quickly.
Distance away from our addicts does bring clarity.
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Join Date: Nov 2019
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Hi all
Keeping myself a little bit more busy. Meditating again and easing my way back into work again. Just thought I would quickly reply
@trailmix:many thanks for the wishes! I actually did look back on it and was grateful. It wasn't hiw I envisioned it but that is okay. I am very lucky. That was the reason why I wanted to not see him for 6 months. I am in no state to be a reasonable girlfriend at this time. I also know I won't heal whilst he is around because my focus and worries will return to him and that will just take away from my own wellbeing for now. I am taking your advice from a previous post about 6 months to see and then another 6 months if I want. I can see he is changing already so he may not even want to be with me in 6 months but that is the risk I have to take because clearly what we were doing was not working.
@hardlessons:thank you, it just feels a bit like I am hiding my own addiction to him. Everyone keeps telling me how strong I am when I really just feel weak at the momey. I hope your Q has found some peace (I read your past threads).
@ pdm: that is what I am leaving to the universe, I might not want to be with him in 6 months and vice versa but either way I hope we will be better people regardless of the outcome.
@trailmix:many thanks for the wishes! I actually did look back on it and was grateful. It wasn't hiw I envisioned it but that is okay. I am very lucky. That was the reason why I wanted to not see him for 6 months. I am in no state to be a reasonable girlfriend at this time. I also know I won't heal whilst he is around because my focus and worries will return to him and that will just take away from my own wellbeing for now. I am taking your advice from a previous post about 6 months to see and then another 6 months if I want. I can see he is changing already so he may not even want to be with me in 6 months but that is the risk I have to take because clearly what we were doing was not working.
@hardlessons:thank you, it just feels a bit like I am hiding my own addiction to him. Everyone keeps telling me how strong I am when I really just feel weak at the momey. I hope your Q has found some peace (I read your past threads).
@ pdm: that is what I am leaving to the universe, I might not want to be with him in 6 months and vice versa but either way I hope we will be better people regardless of the outcome.
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Originally Posted by Kokoro 
it just feels a bit like I am hiding my own addiction to him. Everyone keeps telling me how strong I am when I really just feel weak
Now does that mean you are healing or progressing or moving forward or does it mean you have self-discipline in not calling or texting.
Well, the second part, not contacting is just control, nothing more (and it's tough! and you do have to steel yourself). The result is that clear time to start healing and evaluating. So that's not pretending, to me. You are controlling contact, you are making progress, all is well (well as well as can be expected at this point).
All others see is that you are on your own right now, not talking to him. No one sees the meditation, the journaling the forced walk to get out of your head or trying to sleep or make yourself eat something, or when you just sit and cry (or stare at a wall) and would like nothing more than to just talk to him.
Where you question whether you are abandoning him or doing the right thing.
But it's all progress and you actually are strong, stronger than you think.
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Kokoro
If you went back & read my threads then hopefully you learned something of what not to do.
Its beyond my comprehension to understand how she will ever find peace. Her additions totally rule over her life. In spite of how utterly destructive it all is, she loves her addictions more than anything. Its really all she knows. She cant relate to a so called normal life.
Just between you & I - I still love her & care about her. I also well know it wasn't all her fault. I don't blame her for being who & what she is. I had a naďve hope & fools dream that I could help her.
Bottom line down to earth reality - there was nothing I could do to help her change her life. All that I did resulted in absolutely nothing. That's a harsh reality.
If you went back & read my threads then hopefully you learned something of what not to do.
Its beyond my comprehension to understand how she will ever find peace. Her additions totally rule over her life. In spite of how utterly destructive it all is, she loves her addictions more than anything. Its really all she knows. She cant relate to a so called normal life.
Just between you & I - I still love her & care about her. I also well know it wasn't all her fault. I don't blame her for being who & what she is. I had a naďve hope & fools dream that I could help her.
Bottom line down to earth reality - there was nothing I could do to help her change her life. All that I did resulted in absolutely nothing. That's a harsh reality.
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Struggling
Hi all,
Let me first respond
@trailmix: thanknyou for your kind words. I feel battered and bruised but everyone words are helping.
@hardlessons:still being love is my biggest fear if I leave altogether. I am weirdly a commitment phobe but when I find people I click with I rarely let them go.
I saw him for the friends and family meeting as part of our therapy. He looks...tired but centred. I don't know how to describe it other than that. He has made friends there. I even made a friend myself in the friends and family group which was really great. I struggled wih alanon because most people were older but I am going to try again wih a friend in tow his time.
In alanon I heard the phrase when the pain is greater staying than leaving, it's time to go and I really struggle with this. Where I honestly am is that it is 50:50 either way which really sucks. I am trying to be comfortable with the uncomfortable but with a lot of difficulty.
I also watched a TED talk about addiction (recommended to me by someone in SMART) and it just made me feel all kinds of guilty. The premise was that the opposite of addiction is connection and I had felt so so awful following that. I know personally how it feels to be lonely, and so I just cried for my poor darling, knowing I can't help him.
I am still resolute that I need space away from him. My reserves are running low and I am no position to entertain a relationship right now.
It's been a hard day.
Let me first respond
@trailmix: thanknyou for your kind words. I feel battered and bruised but everyone words are helping.
@hardlessons:still being love is my biggest fear if I leave altogether. I am weirdly a commitment phobe but when I find people I click with I rarely let them go.
I saw him for the friends and family meeting as part of our therapy. He looks...tired but centred. I don't know how to describe it other than that. He has made friends there. I even made a friend myself in the friends and family group which was really great. I struggled wih alanon because most people were older but I am going to try again wih a friend in tow his time.
In alanon I heard the phrase when the pain is greater staying than leaving, it's time to go and I really struggle with this. Where I honestly am is that it is 50:50 either way which really sucks. I am trying to be comfortable with the uncomfortable but with a lot of difficulty.
I also watched a TED talk about addiction (recommended to me by someone in SMART) and it just made me feel all kinds of guilty. The premise was that the opposite of addiction is connection and I had felt so so awful following that. I know personally how it feels to be lonely, and so I just cried for my poor darling, knowing I can't help him.
I am still resolute that I need space away from him. My reserves are running low and I am no position to entertain a relationship right now.
It's been a hard day.
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Originally Posted by Kokoro
I also watched a TED talk about addiction (recommended to me by someone in SMART) and it just made me feel all kinds of guilty. The premise was that the opposite of addiction is connection and I had felt so so awful following that. I know personally how it feels to be lonely, and so I just cried for my poor darling, knowing I can't help him.
I am still resolute that I need space away from him. My reserves are running low and I am no position to entertain a relationship right now.
It's been a hard day.
You may be helping him tremendously by going no-contact as much as possible. This creates the space for others, with better potential to help him, to step in.
When I went through this (similar but not exactly the same)
I figured if I got to the end of the day without shooting myself nor calling him, it was a successful day. I also left the Northern Hemisphere to get as far away from him is possible.
What you are doing is super-human. Keep getting through the days as best you can. If you have to set your sites on getting through the next 15 minutes then do that instead.
Stick close you fine person. Make no mistake, you are living an olympian effort right now.
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I agree. Both of you being apart will let him work on him, and you work on you without being emmeshed with each other. I like what you said. Hopefully 6 months from now you will both be different people, but that is up to each of you individually.
Big hugs.
Big hugs.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
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I've watched that TED talk as well and I think it has value. I also think that loving people when they are in trouble (well all the time) is not a wrong thing to do.
The trouble comes when loving that person, closely, starts to interfere with your own mental and physical well-being, which it certainly does when living or spending a lot of time with a person in active addiction.
We are not trained to look at this with a clinical eye and to be able to separate ourselves from the situation emotionally, certainly not long term. So where does that leave us?
I think it leaves us with love for another person (from a distance) to protect our own sanity and well being. That's not selfish. If there is some way to be of help (driving them to rehab for instance) I see nothing wrong with that, but short of that, we must protect ourselves.
The trouble comes when loving that person, closely, starts to interfere with your own mental and physical well-being, which it certainly does when living or spending a lot of time with a person in active addiction.
We are not trained to look at this with a clinical eye and to be able to separate ourselves from the situation emotionally, certainly not long term. So where does that leave us?
I think it leaves us with love for another person (from a distance) to protect our own sanity and well being. That's not selfish. If there is some way to be of help (driving them to rehab for instance) I see nothing wrong with that, but short of that, we must protect ourselves.
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Kokoro, a few years ago I posted a reading here b/c it was the best piece about compassion that I've ever seen. It really helped me understand what it meant to be compassionate. I'll copy that reading here in the hopes that it helps you and maybe others, too.
"Compassion is the act of giving from your heart in a way that touches others on a heart level. This may include assisting them in some way that they cannot assist themselves in the moment - a hug, a kind word, a meal, helping out at their home, raising funds, reaching out afar to allow others the privilege of helping. Compassion allows others the right to feel their pain but not be allowed to become stuck in the pattern of it. That is collusion. Compassion will assist the individual in rising out of the situation, to see in a new way why the situation occurred and to learn from it. When we can assist another in the lesson of the struggle, the suffering, the difficulty, then we have used our compassionate heart to raise the level of love, not only in that particular situation, but in the overall, Universal way.
Compassion is not feeling sorry for other's suffering - it is using the love for that person to assist them with comfort and healing. When someone is stuck in a lifelong pattern of self-suffering, to allow that behavior to continue through pity is not compassionate. To hold that person in love and allow them the gift of that long-term suffering until they are ready to release it and move on is compassion. Just hold them in love but do not collude in the suffering as then you will also suffer which is not being compassionate to yourself. Very often we can be compassionate from a distance simply by coming from the heart and holding the energy of that love for the individual. Then it is up to them to either accept it as a gift or turn it away as a rejection of their story. But as long as you are truly holding them with love, the outcome does not matter. Whenever you expect an outcome, then you are not being compassionate, you are trying to control another's life. True compassion is selfless."
"Compassion is the act of giving from your heart in a way that touches others on a heart level. This may include assisting them in some way that they cannot assist themselves in the moment - a hug, a kind word, a meal, helping out at their home, raising funds, reaching out afar to allow others the privilege of helping. Compassion allows others the right to feel their pain but not be allowed to become stuck in the pattern of it. That is collusion. Compassion will assist the individual in rising out of the situation, to see in a new way why the situation occurred and to learn from it. When we can assist another in the lesson of the struggle, the suffering, the difficulty, then we have used our compassionate heart to raise the level of love, not only in that particular situation, but in the overall, Universal way.
Compassion is not feeling sorry for other's suffering - it is using the love for that person to assist them with comfort and healing. When someone is stuck in a lifelong pattern of self-suffering, to allow that behavior to continue through pity is not compassionate. To hold that person in love and allow them the gift of that long-term suffering until they are ready to release it and move on is compassion. Just hold them in love but do not collude in the suffering as then you will also suffer which is not being compassionate to yourself. Very often we can be compassionate from a distance simply by coming from the heart and holding the energy of that love for the individual. Then it is up to them to either accept it as a gift or turn it away as a rejection of their story. But as long as you are truly holding them with love, the outcome does not matter. Whenever you expect an outcome, then you are not being compassionate, you are trying to control another's life. True compassion is selfless."
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Originally Posted by honeypig
Just hold them in love but do not collude in the suffering as then you will also suffer which is not being compassionate to yourself.
The part above, I remember one day I was with a friend that was going through a hard time, they were upset and as I sat there watching and listening I thought, I don't really "feel" anything here in particular, do I not have compassion for this person?
So I stopped and I let those feelings in. I felt horrible, sad, I just wanted to sit and cry. Then I thought, ok, you can relate and you can feel this BUT as is said in the writing HP posted, if I collude in that I am hurting myself and honestly not able to help the other person at all. In order to be of help, I need to keep a clear head and calm.
Hang in there, more will be revealed and you will find clarity.
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Won't stop messaging me
@honeypig: I really really like that piece so thanknyou. It actually does speak to me and I have tried distancing myself from what his feelings are on the matter and I'm trying to focus on me.
@trailmix: I bloody hope something reveals to me sometime :p I feel really spent.
I think me going to the friends and family group had set me back a bit emotionally. I decided to see my GP and get some meds along with asking work for time off (I am very fortunate to be in a position where I can work flexibly). I actually had a stomach bug over the past few days which has also tanked me even more mentally.
I had actually told him to not get in contact with me and he agreed. He said he would wait for me to get in contact. I thought great he is getting it!
His short term memory is ridiculously bad (? Possible alcohol related...) because he just keeps sending me "updates"every few days or so. I have tried to be non chalant but today I called him up and said "please just leave me alone, when I asked for space I meant it!". I actually got more annoyed at how he seemed annoyed at my phonecall. Argh, I am beginning to understand the whole recovering alcoholics are selfish schtick!
@trailmix: I bloody hope something reveals to me sometime :p I feel really spent.
I think me going to the friends and family group had set me back a bit emotionally. I decided to see my GP and get some meds along with asking work for time off (I am very fortunate to be in a position where I can work flexibly). I actually had a stomach bug over the past few days which has also tanked me even more mentally.
I had actually told him to not get in contact with me and he agreed. He said he would wait for me to get in contact. I thought great he is getting it!
His short term memory is ridiculously bad (? Possible alcohol related...) because he just keeps sending me "updates"every few days or so. I have tried to be non chalant but today I called him up and said "please just leave me alone, when I asked for space I meant it!". I actually got more annoyed at how he seemed annoyed at my phonecall. Argh, I am beginning to understand the whole recovering alcoholics are selfish schtick!
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because he just keeps sending me "updates"every few days or so. I have tried to be non chalant but today I called him up and said "please just leave me alone, when I asked for space I meant it!"
the only person who is required to honor your boundaries is you.
no one else is obligated to do so, regardless of what you tell them. if someone violates your boundaries of No Contact and then you pick up the phone and contact THEM, you are the one who has violated your own boundary.
it's about who gets the power. it's about the power you have and if you choose to keep it or let others take it. if you have not blocked him, why? do so now. raise the shields. force fields on.
the only person who is required to honor your boundaries is you.
no one else is obligated to do so, regardless of what you tell them. if someone violates your boundaries of No Contact and then you pick up the phone and contact THEM, you are the one who has violated your own boundary.
it's about who gets the power. it's about the power you have and if you choose to keep it or let others take it. if you have not blocked him, why? do so now. raise the shields. force fields on.
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@anvilhead Sigh I know you're right. I guess I am just disappointed he hasn't respected those boundaries. I didn't want to be completely "heartless" and block him but I will if I need to.
The way I see it is this is the only way I can see the relationship mending in any way. He is recovering. I too need to recover and right now together we will just be toxic to each other. And maybe after time apart we will both realise we really are no good for each other. But now, we definitely cannot. Leaving it to the universe for now.
The way I see it is this is the only way I can see the relationship mending in any way. He is recovering. I too need to recover and right now together we will just be toxic to each other. And maybe after time apart we will both realise we really are no good for each other. But now, we definitely cannot. Leaving it to the universe for now.
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Been a week of no contact
Hi all,
Just an update. I am doing better..I think? I am not crying everyday now and seem to be just getting on with life. Going no contact has helped. Been looking after myself and it seems to be working.
He is coming out tomorrow and I have been "white knuckling" not contacting him. Help?
Just an update. I am doing better..I think? I am not crying everyday now and seem to be just getting on with life. Going no contact has helped. Been looking after myself and it seems to be working.
He is coming out tomorrow and I have been "white knuckling" not contacting him. Help?
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If you’ve been doing better in no contact...
Just try not to lie to yourself? It’s so easy to do. He’s going to contact you and he’s going to want something from you...anywhere from resuming the relationship at status quo to just being his unpaid therapist while he unloads...but what do YOU really want, that you know you have control over?
Be your own advocate, above all else.
P.S. Quoting you, from your first post:
“And then he got cross, accusing me of not believing him, I had a moment of clarity. I could see my future and it was this endless cycle of him drinking, him lying, me getting annoyed and on and on it goes the merry-go-round. I can see myself becoming a broken woman. I am a happy positive person with a zest for life...and he was going to lead me to becoming a bitter shell. ”
Just try not to lie to yourself? It’s so easy to do. He’s going to contact you and he’s going to want something from you...anywhere from resuming the relationship at status quo to just being his unpaid therapist while he unloads...but what do YOU really want, that you know you have control over?
Be your own advocate, above all else.
P.S. Quoting you, from your first post:
“And then he got cross, accusing me of not believing him, I had a moment of clarity. I could see my future and it was this endless cycle of him drinking, him lying, me getting annoyed and on and on it goes the merry-go-round. I can see myself becoming a broken woman. I am a happy positive person with a zest for life...and he was going to lead me to becoming a bitter shell. ”
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It hasn't been that long and I'm so glad you are feeling a bit better. Different for different individuals but it takes me like 4-6 months, minimum to start really feeling myself again (rough estimate lol).
You have to make a decision for yourself. Are you in or are you out. No pussyfooting around on this one. If you do, if you go back and forth, then you are no further ahead and all will have been for nothing.
But, as Aries said, you need to ask yourself what you want for yourself. Are you prepared to go back on that particular rollercoaster ride again? It could turn out like that, you just don't know.
If so, I would really recommend just being friends for at least 6 months so he can get a firm footing in his sobriety. Then, no real talk of future plans until he is a solid year in to his recovery. Anything short of that is too risky for you don't you think?
Above all, protect yourself.
You have to make a decision for yourself. Are you in or are you out. No pussyfooting around on this one. If you do, if you go back and forth, then you are no further ahead and all will have been for nothing.
But, as Aries said, you need to ask yourself what you want for yourself. Are you prepared to go back on that particular rollercoaster ride again? It could turn out like that, you just don't know.
If so, I would really recommend just being friends for at least 6 months so he can get a firm footing in his sobriety. Then, no real talk of future plans until he is a solid year in to his recovery. Anything short of that is too risky for you don't you think?
Above all, protect yourself.
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He is coming out tomorrow and I have been "white knuckling" not contacting him. Help?
sorry, what does that mean exactly? the Coming Out part.
how do you know this?
and if you did make/break contact, what payoff are YOU looking to get out of it. because trust me, it wouldn't be for HIS benefit - you have a need you think he can fill. so get honest with yourself.
sorry, what does that mean exactly? the Coming Out part.
how do you know this?
and if you did make/break contact, what payoff are YOU looking to get out of it. because trust me, it wouldn't be for HIS benefit - you have a need you think he can fill. so get honest with yourself.
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