Coparenting with an alcoholic is hard
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Coparenting with an alcoholic is hard
Guys, he’s gone nuts. I wish I could see the full picture sometimes but I know it’s best for my sanity to be removed from it. He has the kids 15% of the time and still can’t make it work. He is on court ordered alcohol monitoring and goes on several month spurts of doing well and then BOOM. In the last months he has blown positive twice, one occurrence of last minute quacking excuses, and one occurrence of “I had mouth wash so I might blow positive but hopefully not”.
If he just acknowledged his drinking and moved on it would be one thing. But instead every occurrence results in him lashing out at me, me being labeled unreasonable, endless excuses, a remaining sense of entitlement, etc.
Its exhausting guys. And his alcohol monitoring Was only up until March and ain’t no way in hell is that happening so back to court, which means more $$ too.
Im tired.
If he just acknowledged his drinking and moved on it would be one thing. But instead every occurrence results in him lashing out at me, me being labeled unreasonable, endless excuses, a remaining sense of entitlement, etc.
Its exhausting guys. And his alcohol monitoring Was only up until March and ain’t no way in hell is that happening so back to court, which means more $$ too.
Im tired.
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Hey batchel, I can only imagine, it is hard that's for sure.
I know you use soberlink, so why does he get a chance to have a go at you when he blows positive? If he is submitting his test just before he comes to pick them up, you shouldn't have to speak to him at all?
That could perhaps be a new boundary? If he blows positive then there is no discussion, no visit, period. That is the agreement so no, he shouldn't get a chance to vent his anger on you, you don't have to take it.
Will that work for you at all?
I know you use soberlink, so why does he get a chance to have a go at you when he blows positive? If he is submitting his test just before he comes to pick them up, you shouldn't have to speak to him at all?
That could perhaps be a new boundary? If he blows positive then there is no discussion, no visit, period. That is the agreement so no, he shouldn't get a chance to vent his anger on you, you don't have to take it.
Will that work for you at all?
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Originally Posted by trailmix 
Hey batchel, I can only imagine, it is hard that's for sure.
I know you use soberlink, so why does he get a chance to have a go at you when he blows positive? If he is submitting his test just before he comes to pick them up, you shouldn't have to speak to him at all?
That could perhaps be a new boundary? If he blows positive then there is no discussion, no visit, period. That is the agreement so no, he shouldn't get a chance to vent his anger on you, you don't have to take it.
Will that work for you at all?
I know you use soberlink, so why does he get a chance to have a go at you when he blows positive? If he is submitting his test just before he comes to pick them up, you shouldn't have to speak to him at all?
That could perhaps be a new boundary? If he blows positive then there is no discussion, no visit, period. That is the agreement so no, he shouldn't get a chance to vent his anger on you, you don't have to take it.
Will that work for you at all?
This past time he would have missed the weekend with this kids and his result was positive but not much. So he immediately called (which I ignored, but then ended texting with him) a time to get the kids when he did blow compliant. His supervisor mom was there so he wanted the kids to ride with her, then he wanted to get them like 2 hours later when he was fine. I maintained the next day at 9am.
i just don’t know what to do other than tolerate it and keep waiting for something to change.
i do limit all phone convo with him, and keep all correspondence as minimal as I think I can but still trying to coparent to some extent.
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Originally Posted by trailmix
Hey batchel, I can only imagine, it is hard that's for sure.
I know you use soberlink, so why does he get a chance to have a go at you when he blows positive? If he is submitting his test just before he comes to pick them up, you shouldn't have to speak to him at all?
That could perhaps be a new boundary? If he blows positive then there is no discussion, no visit, period. That is the agreement so no, he shouldn't get a chance to vent his anger on you, you don't have to take it.
Will that work for you at all?
I know you use soberlink, so why does he get a chance to have a go at you when he blows positive? If he is submitting his test just before he comes to pick them up, you shouldn't have to speak to him at all?
That could perhaps be a new boundary? If he blows positive then there is no discussion, no visit, period. That is the agreement so no, he shouldn't get a chance to vent his anger on you, you don't have to take it.
Will that work for you at all?
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,609
Yes, I can see you are trying to be reasonable and make sure the kids get their time with their Dad etc, and that's really honorable.
However, you left him for a reason and you also deserve a peaceful life. That is good for you and also good for the kids.
If he were reasonable and reliable (and sober) none of this would be going on,
The rules laid out in your agreement are clear. He doesn't get to negotiate them every time he decides he wants a drink.
Hang in there, you are doing well under extremely trying circumstances batchel!
However, you left him for a reason and you also deserve a peaceful life. That is good for you and also good for the kids.
If he were reasonable and reliable (and sober) none of this would be going on,
The rules laid out in your agreement are clear. He doesn't get to negotiate them every time he decides he wants a drink.
Hang in there, you are doing well under extremely trying circumstances batchel!
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Trailmix- he doesn’t even acknowledge his drinking. It’s painfully clear to everyone else (or at least me....who knows what his parents and new gf think) that he’s drinking. I end up back to the “what is best for the kids” and that’s where I end up letting some negotiation happen I think. The kids really want to see their dad. So is the right answer to really take their entire weekend visit from them when he was able to blow compliant within 2 hours of scheduled pickup time? I dunno, I struggle.
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My XAH will spiral due to it being the holidays. It always happens. He likes to pretend it won't. I have learned to stay very matter of fact about it. I don't blow up or get mad or even talk to him about it. I say nothing and if he asks if kid is coming for the weekend, I simply say no. If he says why, I say something along the lines of we both know why and now is not a good time to talk about it. Then I don't answer anymore texts. It's stressful, but much better than engaging for sure.
I send you big hugs!
I send you big hugs!
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Originally Posted by batchel9
Trailmix- he doesn’t even acknowledge his drinking. It’s painfully clear to everyone else (or at least me....who knows what his parents and new gf think) that he’s drinking. I end up back to the “what is best for the kids” and that’s where I end up letting some negotiation happen I think. The kids really want to see their dad. So is the right answer to really take their entire weekend visit from them when he was able to blow compliant within 2 hours of scheduled pickup time? I dunno, I struggle.
in the moment, it sucks for your kid to be disappointed. No question. But think about the precident you set if you don’t cancel the visit when he fails. It means he can get away with it, you aren’t sticking to the terms of the agreement, and the kids may be kicked up as planned, or as planned plus 1,2,3 hours? Or more?
Over time, you create less consistency for them if you are flexible. If you follow the terms, it happens or it doesn’t, per dad’s own actions or decisions on standards he is fully aware of. What if if you say “ok come back in two hours” and the next time he is still drunk then? You are in the net of his alcohol related decisions, and you all get jerked around.
My ex was an ******* about it when I shut him down when he didn’t pass. But eventually, he’d either be sober at pickup or have “an emergency” and cancel. You can’t make him be responsible but you can hold him to the bare minimum and if there are consequences for him failing to do so, he might just stop drinking 2 hours earlier on days he’s supposed to be sober for pickup.
And even if it makes no difference and he does the same thing, he is doing this to the kids, not you, and I think modeling responsibility and consistency is lore important than any given Saturday with a dad who managed to stop being drunk 10 seconds before a two hour late pickup. I’m guessing those are not his best parenting moments.
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Originally Posted by batchel9
So is the right answer to really take their entire weekend visit from them when he was able to blow compliant within 2 hours of scheduled pickup time? I dunno, I struggle.
In scenario A - He shows up and can't blow compliant but it looks like he could in say an hour or two and has plans with the kids and they are ready to go. So you let them go when he can blow cleanly. What they know is that Dad can't live up to his obligations (and can't be bothered to show up to their visitation sober, but he will be given a pass shortly).
In scenario B - He can't blow compliant and you shut it all down right there and then - no visitation this time and no discussion. Children are sad and disappointed but with your guidance can understand that there are consequences when you do not live up to your side of a bargain.
In both cases everything is centered around the alcoholic and the alcoholism. There is absolutely no way around that. That will never ever be ideal, but it is what you have to work with.
The only thing I can see here that might have even a little bit of hope in it for you is by standing your ground (boundary). If scenario A continues then what is his motivation for not showing up kinda - sorta drunk for visitation? None. There is no consequence so it's kinda - sorta enabling (I hate saying that by the way because I absolutely know that is not your intention at all).
By holding your boundary the kids are disappointed, he is disappointed/angry and you are standing there looking like the bad guy, the truth is you are not. You are the responsible parent following the rules, that has to count for something. You can't change his behaviour (of course) and none of this may put a dent in it, ie: he will still show up with a BAC that is not zero, so all you are left with is to do the next right thing. It is your decision what that is.
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What Trailmix said. If you let it slide or keep accommodating his being not sober, you are removing the direct, predictable consequences of his drinking and bearing the burden of them yourself. Sounds a whole lot like enabling to me, even if he’s directly and literally bringing it to your doorstep. Ugh.
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Originally Posted by batchel9
Trailmix- he doesn’t even acknowledge his drinking. It’s painfully clear to everyone else (or at least me....who knows what his parents and new gf think) that he’s drinking. I end up back to the “what is best for the kids” and that’s where I end up letting some negotiation happen I think. The kids really want to see their dad. So is the right answer to really take their entire weekend visit from them when he was able to blow compliant within 2 hours of scheduled pickup time? I dunno, I struggle.
Yes.
He is pushing boundaries to see what will happen - will you cave, will you negotiate (and thereby provide him with lots of the attention he craves), or will you hold firm. My experience is that while holding firm is stressful, it is the only ay to deal with an alcoholic who’s still drinking.
Remember that you are not taking his weekend away, he is throwing it away by choosing to drink when he knows he is not supposed to.
My lawyer used to talk about “mechanical consequences” of actions - in my case, if ex did anything other than provide a clean breath sample at the time specified, the consequence that followed mechanically was that there was no visit. I didn’t have any decision to make, I wasn’t in the position of choosing whether or not to allow the visit. If Event X happened, Consequence Y followed. Impersonal and objective.
This is hard for kids to grasp because they are so concrete - well, Dad’s not drunk any more so why can’t we go see him? They don’t understand that the larger problem is that Dad can’t be trusted, not that Dad is or it’s not hammered right now. Over time I believe they’ll figure it out.
The alternative (letting the visit proceed even when the conditions have not been met) is demonstrating to both Dad and the kids (if they’re aware of the conditions of his visits) that promises and commitments (and court orders) don’t matter. You’re also setting a precedent for departing from court orders which could come back to bite you. (My lawyer was also really big on emphasizing that both parties are equally bound by agreements - I couldn’t set the requirement for compliant testing aside even if I wanted to).
This really, really sucks. But I think holding firm is the best of the not-great options in front of you.
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you cannot CO-parent with an active alcoholic.
co-parenting implies TWO parents working together for the benefit of the children.
that is not happening here.
letting him slip and slide and getting around THE RULES is enabling. and contrary to what you think it is NOT to the benefit of the children. sure they may want to see their dad, but they also would like ice cream for breakfast. as they are children, they do not get to make the rules, or call the shots or get what they want just cuz they want it.
boundaries, batchel. boundaries.
HE is the one not conforming to the rules.
HE is the one unable to set aside alcohol for the sake of sober visits with his children.
HE is the one saying JUMP - it is up to you to quit asking How High??
we don't let our kids run in traffic.
we don't let them wander off with strangers.
we don't leave them in the care of intoxicated, inebriated or drug addled persons - EVER.
co-parenting implies TWO parents working together for the benefit of the children.
that is not happening here.
letting him slip and slide and getting around THE RULES is enabling. and contrary to what you think it is NOT to the benefit of the children. sure they may want to see their dad, but they also would like ice cream for breakfast. as they are children, they do not get to make the rules, or call the shots or get what they want just cuz they want it.
boundaries, batchel. boundaries.
HE is the one not conforming to the rules.
HE is the one unable to set aside alcohol for the sake of sober visits with his children.
HE is the one saying JUMP - it is up to you to quit asking How High??
we don't let our kids run in traffic.
we don't let them wander off with strangers.
we don't leave them in the care of intoxicated, inebriated or drug addled persons - EVER.
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While testing is designed to keep our kids safe, it can be tiring constantly holding the alcoholic responsible for whatever the test states.
When my XAH would test, it was done with an OTC breathalyzer that I purchased. I would get constant excuses when he wouldn't pass... the breathalyzer is cheap, mouthwash, etc. I would blow into it and the reading always came back with zeros. Seemed accurate to me! I hated the process as the XAH would try to lie and manipulate his way around it. I understand it wears on you as a parent trying to do the best you can for your kids and constantly being berated for it.
May I ask at what point is considered a fail on his part? Is it zero or fail? Is it under the legal limit?
When my XAH would test, it was done with an OTC breathalyzer that I purchased. I would get constant excuses when he wouldn't pass... the breathalyzer is cheap, mouthwash, etc. I would blow into it and the reading always came back with zeros. Seemed accurate to me! I hated the process as the XAH would try to lie and manipulate his way around it. I understand it wears on you as a parent trying to do the best you can for your kids and constantly being berated for it.
May I ask at what point is considered a fail on his part? Is it zero or fail? Is it under the legal limit?
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Originally Posted by pookielou
While testing is designed to keep our kids safe, it can be tiring constantly holding the alcoholic responsible for whatever the test states.
When my XAH would test, it was done with an OTC breathalyzer that I purchased. I would get constant excuses when he wouldn't pass... the breathalyzer is cheap, mouthwash, etc. I would blow into it and the reading always came back with zeros. Seemed accurate to me! I hated the process as the XAH would try to lie and manipulate his way around it. I understand it wears on you as a parent trying to do the best you can for your kids and constantly being berated for it.
May I ask at what point is considered a fail on his part? Is it zero or fail? Is it under the legal limit?
When my XAH would test, it was done with an OTC breathalyzer that I purchased. I would get constant excuses when he wouldn't pass... the breathalyzer is cheap, mouthwash, etc. I would blow into it and the reading always came back with zeros. Seemed accurate to me! I hated the process as the XAH would try to lie and manipulate his way around it. I understand it wears on you as a parent trying to do the best you can for your kids and constantly being berated for it.
May I ask at what point is considered a fail on his part? Is it zero or fail? Is it under the legal limit?
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Yes I probably need to hold to the order should this happen again and not allow him any parenting time. I kind of panicked this one because it was the first time it had happened. He has blown positive for his weekday tests several times but never when he and his mother (the supervisor) were sitting in the drive way for a weekend visit. I called all of the shots without having a time to read all of the language. Awkward and bad.
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Try not to be so hard on yourself, I personally think you are doing wonderfully. This must be so hard. Attempting co-parenting with a non-alcoholic is not particularly fun or easy - doing this with an alcoholic is just really asking too much - but of course it has to be done.
One off-shoot you may want to prepare for is when he is given a choice between drinking or visitation you might find that the visitation drops off significantly.
One off-shoot you may want to prepare for is when he is given a choice between drinking or visitation you might find that the visitation drops off significantly.
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In my circumstances, which were very similar to yours, I came to think of my adventures fending off the ex as buying time for Kid to grow up with minimal exposure to the traumatizing effects of an addicted parent, while waiting for ex to either get his act together and stop drinking or to disintegrate completely and take himself out of the picture. It wasn’t “co-parenting” in any sense, it was carving out space and time for Kid to grow up with as little craziness as possible.
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Originally Posted by Sasha1972
In my circumstances, which were very similar to yours, I came to think of my adventures fending off the ex as buying time for Kid to grow up with minimal exposure to the traumatizing effects of an addicted parent, while waiting for ex to either get his act together and stop drinking or to disintegrate completely and take himself out of the picture. It wasn’t “co-parenting” in any sense, it was carving out space and time for Kid to grow up with as little craziness as possible.
Yeah.. I'm just trying to give my kids a safe place to grow knowing their dad is slowly spiralling. It's sad to see how he's regressed back to exactly where he was last year and dragged the kids with him.
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Originally Posted by Sasha1972
In my circumstances, which were very similar to yours, I came to think of my adventures fending off the ex as buying time for Kid to grow up with minimal exposure to the traumatizing effects of an addicted parent, while waiting for ex to either get his act together and stop drinking or to disintegrate completely and take himself out of the picture. It wasn’t “co-parenting” in any sense, it was carving out space and time for Kid to grow up with as little craziness as possible.
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