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Here again!

Old 11-10-2019, 04:53 AM
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Here again!

So a lot has happened since my last post. I left. Stayed with my parents with my kids. Had no contact for several days. Once we actually talked he made lots of promises. How he was gonna do better. Blah blah blah. I fell for it. And boom. Right back in the same mess. Things did go slightly better for a little bit. We are great when heís not drinking. Or not drinking so heavily. But immediately after having a drink. He is a totally different person. As am I. I just cringe when I know heís drinking. Which in turn makes him either mad or he tries harder to act like heís fine. Which just makes things worse. Itís just a crazy cycle. Anyways we had an argument Friday night. He had a bad day at work and of course came home and got trashed. The argument proceeded over to Saturday. And I said some really mean things. And told him he was out of control with his drinking. He said he would get some help. But he said even if he does quit drinking I wouldnít be happy. That I would always find something to nag him about. Iím worried maybe I wouldnít be happy. I have been dealing with this for years. What if I canít get past everything. I donít know. And then thereís the trouble he says. Of what kind of help he can get. He works full time and I just work a small job. Heís the breadwinner. He canít just take off work and go to rehab. What does he do?? He really needs to detox. I think if he could do that with medical supervision. It would be better. Maybe he could see clearly if he was sober? I donít know. Any advice on getting him help. If heís asking. I feel like I should try and help?
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Old 11-10-2019, 06:57 AM
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ďWhat does he do??Ē

Please donít take this the wrong way... but thatís not up to you. Itís not your body, life or decision... no matter how much you wish to help him, change him, heal him. The question is: What do you do!?
ó
ďHe really needs to detox. I think if he could do that with medical supervision. It would be better.Ē

He may need that. But trust me, detox doesnít solve anything. Itís just a very tiny step. But itís certainly no magic pill to recovery.
ó
ďMaybe he could see clearly if he was sober.Ē

Who knows? Maybe... maybe not. Seeing ďclearlyĒ takes years and years for an addict! It takes a very pro-active decision to change oneís life. You 100% canít make that decision for him.

I hope you can start putting your focus on yourself, your life, your financial situation, your future... not his! What can you do to become more financially independent?
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Old 11-10-2019, 07:07 AM
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My friend, there are about a million miles between someone saying they will get help and actually doing it.
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Old 11-10-2019, 08:13 AM
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More importantly maybe you could see clearer with a break from all of this?

It's so important to put the focus back on yourself. You didn't Cause it, cant' Control it, can't Cure it.

Perhaps things did go slightly better for a while, is that all you are wanting in a relationship? Looks like that is all that is on offer right now.

None of this is changing anytime soon. The question is not what is he going to do, the only question is what are you are going to do?
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Old 11-10-2019, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by SparkleKitty View Post
My friend, there are about a million miles between someone saying they will get help and actually doing it.
Fact of the day.
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Old 11-10-2019, 08:34 AM
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You'd be surprised how "in denial" an addict can be. For years, my ex had me thinking that his weed use was ok. (He was an alcoholic, near death many times but went to rehab for that particular madness). He remained unemployed for 4 years, because he could not pass a drug screen. This affected our relationship and in the end I left.

I don't think you can convince another person of the significance of their addiction. That "bottom" that they hit isn't necessarily what we would think the "bottom" is.

I don't want to repeat what others are saying, but you gotta take care of you. Changing the way you react and behave are the only control you have.. and when things are crazy it helps to remember that.

E
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Old 11-10-2019, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by SparkleKitty View Post
My friend, there are about a million miles between someone saying they will get help and actually doing it.
^^^^^^^ This. Short, to the point, accurate. I’m sorry for your pain.
My partner called rehabs for me, she helped me find a psychiatrist, she did her best.

I cringe when I think of it. I put her in a position where she thought she could (and should) save me. She couldn’t. I had to get help myself. That change of heart and mind can not come from you, no matter how awesome you are. It HAS to come from within him.
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Old 11-10-2019, 10:49 AM
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cloweryÖÖ..medical detox is usually just a few days....about 5 or less, for the majority of people (in the hospital)Ö..Of course, it depends on the individual person and what their medical status is.
If he has a doctor....it would be a good first step for him to talk to the doctor...and, you can be in the room, with his permission....and let the doctor examine him and make recommendations as to where to go, for detox, etc. That way, he will have the doctor to manage his medications, etc., after the detox.
Keep in mind, that "detox" is not the same as rehab. It just gets the patient to the point of being physically stable after their blood alcohol level has reached zero.
Then, he will need immediate support! Detox won't make him not want to drink....it will just make him more physically comfortable....
Immediate support in the form of AA meetings....every day, is the best idea. Some people do 90 meetings in 90 days.....
He will need his own counselor...and a sponsor, in AA. He may need a doctor to manage any medications that he needs.
He can go to rehab, if he wants to.....I have no idea of what the particulars, in terms of his work...or your insurance situation.
If you live in the United States....every county will have some sort of alcohol program and/or help for the alcoholic and their families, as well. You can google your county government and get the numbers for their alcohol and addiction services.....

Here is the sticky wicket....You are going to need as much help and assistance as he does....no matter what he does! If he wants to take the help, or not. I can tell, by what you have shared....that you and the kids have really taken a negative hit, by his alcoholism. It hurts the loved ones as much as the alcoholic.
You could use alanon ASAP. I can see that your self esteem and self confidence are at the bottom, right now....
As well, I think you are assuming a lot of things that are not facts......especially in the legal realm. You need to have legal advice....
He is filling your head with a lot of negativity and false information....as well as trying to scare you.....
There is a lot of help....you just need to seek it and reach out your hand....
We, on this forum, can help guide and support you.....your situation is not unusual, at all.....there are lots of people,here who have been in just your situation....

I am going to give you the following link to a website that you may appreciate, just now.....
It will help you to organize your questions and give you information, for when you talk to a lawyer....you will feel so much better by just knowing your rights and his rights, as well!!
the following site is informational and is arranged by state.....

www.womansdivorce.com
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Old 11-11-2019, 01:13 PM
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This is typical alcoholic B.S. Alcoholics only quit if they have a burning desire to do the hard work of recovery. A safe bet is to tell him to call when he's sober for a year. My heart goes out to you.
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Old 11-11-2019, 07:33 PM
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I was wrong. He doesnít really want help. He can now do it on his own and Iím now the bad guy for finding him a detox and outpatient program. How dare I think that he would do something like that. Lecture lecture blah blah blah. Iím the one that needs help. Iím at a loss. Really at a loss. I feel stupid. Like really stupid. I hear and understand what everyone has said. I know the answers. Iím just stupid enough to believe that things could actually change. Nothing will change and again itís turned around where Iím the bad guy. I just need to vent. I was so ready. I thought if he really will try and get help I will try and stay and make it work. If not I was leaving. Now heís not gonna get help and Iím still here. Why is it so hard. Why do I care so much. Why do I love him so much. I want it to work. I just had so much hope.
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Old 11-11-2019, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by clowery0508 View Post
Why do I care so much. Why do I love him so much. I want it to work. I just had so much hope.
That's understandable. There aren't many people that give up at the first sign of trouble (or heck much more than that).

Alcoholism is progressive. When you try to come between and alcoholic and his alcohol, you become the enemy.

He may have said - I can't go to rehab, how will I support us etc - what he was really saying (now you know) is - I can't go to rehab because I don't want to quit drinking.

He doesn't want to quit.

As has been said here often, hope is not a plan. He is going to do whatever he wants to do, he's a grown man and gets to make those decisions. Your only part is what you choose to do. You can stay and continue to live with an active alcoholic or you can leave.

Those are really your choices. Doesn't mean you need to completely give up on the relationship if you don't want to right now, you and the children could perhaps go and live with your parents for an extended period of time so you have time and distance to get clarity. Really hard to get clarity when you are in the eye of the storm.

Is that something you would consider?

You didn't Cause it, can't Control it and can't Cure it. Nothing you say will change him, he has to decide to make that change on his own.
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Old 11-11-2019, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by clowery0508 View Post
I was wrong. He doesnít really want help. He can now do it on his own and Iím now the bad guy for finding him a detox and outpatient program. How dare I think that he would do something like that. Lecture lecture blah blah blah. Iím the one that needs help. Iím at a loss. Really at a loss. I feel stupid. Like really stupid. I hear and understand what everyone has said. I know the answers. Iím just stupid enough to believe that things could actually change. Nothing will change and again itís turned around where Iím the bad guy. I just need to vent. I was so ready. I thought if he really will try and get help I will try and stay and make it work. If not I was leaving. Now heís not gonna get help and Iím still here. Why is it so hard. Why do I care so much. Why do I love him so much. I want it to work. I just had so much hope.
So so sorry Clowry. I pretty much second everything Trailmix said.

I'm sure someone saw what was coming and got out easily; I just personally have never heard of it. The situation is so damn complicated and laden with emotions that all of us here had to go through multiple "NO WAIT", "THERE HAS GOT TO BE A WAY" and "Maybe he will change". Your are absolutely not stupid. It is just one hell of a tangle to get one's head and heart around.

I hope you can get to an Alanon meeting and pick up a copy of Codependent No More.

Big hug to you.
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Old 11-12-2019, 09:49 AM
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I went to counseling today. I have never been. I googled and found a counselor called to make an appointment and someone had called and canceled so they told me to come on in. It felt so nice to just sit down and tell someone all my worries and cry and just let out all my emotions. I feel so much better right now. She of course told me basically everything that everyone here has been saying. But it felt so good to have a physical person to talk with. Iíve kept everything bottled up for so long. I go back next week. She gave me some things to work on. And how to handle some things. But I feel better taking a step for me and not for him.
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Old 11-12-2019, 09:58 AM
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That's so great that you took that step clowery.

I'm sure you've heard of Al-Anon as well. That might be something you also find really helpful. Small steps though, getting in to see the counsellor is a big step, it's brave too, I really mean that, it's hard to reach out sometimes.

I'm so glad you are feeling good about looking out for/after yourself.
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:50 AM
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Clowery,

I'm glad you were able to go see someone in person and express everything that you have had inside out. It's a good first step. You need to take it one day at a time and it will get better for you. I agree with trying and find an Al-Anon meeting. It has been very helpful for me to go and just share with other people that are going through the same thing.

You are not the bad guy or even stupid for even trying to find a place for him to get help and detox. . You are just being human. You want to help him. You love him, that's what you do when you love someone. You want to get them help. The problem with alcoholics is if they get help it means they can't drink any more. They are always looking for that next drink. So he argues with you and says I'm a big boy I can do it on my own. He is trying to make the time table of when he get sober on his terms. He gets to decide when he is going to start and he has himself to answer to. So he always is correct. It's not going to happened unless he decides to get outside help.

Just keep being strong and focusing your energy on you and not him. Keep coming back here for help, we are here for you. Have a great day.
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Old 11-13-2019, 06:44 AM
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Good for you! Face to face support is so very important. Glad you are taking that step to take good care of yourself!
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Old 11-13-2019, 07:21 AM
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Clowery, my AH deflects all blame onto me too. I've blown up our relationship due to menopause, depression, working too much, the way the wind is blowing, the alignment of Jupiter in Saturn's path in the new moon's phase...... Its all a convenient way for him to avoid facing his own issues. He won't acknowledge he has a problem with alcohol.
This is all pretty standard for me now.
I've come to realise that in a partnership I deserve love, respect, support, and meaningful communication. Unfortunately setting boundaries around how i will be treated is not going down well with him. He's becoming more sarcastic and nasty. Our own recovery is rocky, but I'm slowly moving forward. Im not stopping this process for me.
Have you put any boundaries in place for you? Are you still around him when he drinks, for example?
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Old 11-13-2019, 07:24 AM
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Thank you everyone for all your support. When I told him I went to a counselor he was at first a little agitated at me. He said I thought that was something we could do together. And I told him we can do it together but right now in this moment I need some help. I think he actually for the first time understood. And has agreed he would like to see a counselor by himself and then do some marriage counseling. I gave him some information about who I seen. But told him he had to make the appointment and choose who he wanted to see. Iím not making that decision because then he would just say I found someone to agree with me. If itís in his control he canít say that. And heís all about control right now. But if he is truly honest with a counselor then maybe they can offer some advice thatís not coming from me. And he will actually listen. Who knows. And he may not make an appointment. He has not been belligerent drunk the past few nights. And said he was trying to cut back. That he knew he had a serious problem and knew he was gonna die if he didnít get control. Iím just praying for him. But am not gonna focus and dwell on the drinking anymore. I have to be healthy and strong for my kids
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Old 11-13-2019, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by clowery0508 View Post
Thank you everyone for all your support. When I told him I went to a counselor he was at first a little agitated at me. He said I thought that was something we could do together. And I told him we can do it together but right now in this moment I need some help. I think he actually for the first time understood. And has agreed he would like to see a counselor by himself and then do some marriage counseling. I gave him some information about who I seen. But told him he had to make the appointment and choose who he wanted to see. Iím not making that decision because then he would just say I found someone to agree with me. If itís in his control he canít say that. And heís all about control right now. But if he is truly honest with a counselor then maybe they can offer some advice thatís not coming from me. And he will actually listen. Who knows. And he may not make an appointment. He has not been belligerent drunk the past few nights. And said he was trying to cut back. That he knew he had a serious problem and knew he was gonna die if he didnít get control. Iím just praying for him. But am not gonna focus and dwell on the drinking anymore. I have to be healthy and strong for my kids
You rocked this! Giving him some info, standing up and saying you need support...all boundaries for YOU. You have every right to look after yourself and be the best parent you can be.
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Old 11-13-2019, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by clowery0508 View Post
I’m not making that decision because then he would just say I found someone to agree with me. If it’s in his control he can’t say that.
I think this is very wise. Also not going in to marriage counselling. What is the point in couples counselling when he is still in active addiction.

As you mentioned, if you do go in to joint counselling there will probably be a lot of "he/she is just taking your side". You may have read that several times here at SR.

Alcoholics are manipulative, it's necessary to protect the addiction at all costs.

Another thing I think might be helpful is to take a few steps back and really look at what he is saying. He's lying to himself about wanting to get help for alcoholism and lying to you at the same time. Now, it might not be "lying" as you and I think of it because alcoholics tend to live in their own truth, their own world if you like, but it's not true either way.

Also when he became agitated when you mentioned you have found a therapist. That's not a normal reaction at all. Hi, I'm your loved one and I'm struggling so I'm seeking help.

Well let me get agitated about that.

Huh?

It becomes the norm in dysfunctional situations for reactions and behaviour which is truly not good or normal to become expected and normal. It's not.

You have your boundaries you are sticking to, that's wonderful clowery. You are moving toward a happier place.
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