Am I the betrayer now?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 134
Am I the betrayer now?
So...I finally went to my first al anon meeting last night. Yay and nay is how Im feeling now. It was not what I expected, and am still not sure it’s for me but I will go again and give it a chance. I didn’t speak, just listened to their stories and watched. I suppose it didn’t help that my AH called me on my way there and I almost turned around. Our conversation went a lot like:
Me: I’m going to a support group meeting
AH: What type of support?
Me: al anon, to try and help me understand and deal with what’s happening in our lives etc.
AH: WOW your really making this a bigger problem than it is. You really enjoy talking bad about me and telling everyone about my problems.
Me: No it’s....
AH: Blah blah blah (all I heard is your dumb basically)
Have fun, Bye
Im sure this is typical response but once again I allowed him to ruin my whole experience and make me feel like I was betraying him by doing something for myself. I sit here now overthinking things once again. A little proud that I at least followed thru and went but also knowing my AH will surely have more to say next time we talk. Why do I feel so weak and meager to this man? I wish I could just not care what he thinks or says. Why do I doubt myself so much!!?? I read others stories here and become inspired to take time for me and to come out of this fortress I’ve built around myself. And in one sentence my AH has me right back inside those walls.
Okay pity parties over 🙃
Me: I’m going to a support group meeting
AH: What type of support?
Me: al anon, to try and help me understand and deal with what’s happening in our lives etc.
AH: WOW your really making this a bigger problem than it is. You really enjoy talking bad about me and telling everyone about my problems.
Me: No it’s....
AH: Blah blah blah (all I heard is your dumb basically)
Have fun, Bye
Im sure this is typical response but once again I allowed him to ruin my whole experience and make me feel like I was betraying him by doing something for myself. I sit here now overthinking things once again. A little proud that I at least followed thru and went but also knowing my AH will surely have more to say next time we talk. Why do I feel so weak and meager to this man? I wish I could just not care what he thinks or says. Why do I doubt myself so much!!?? I read others stories here and become inspired to take time for me and to come out of this fortress I’ve built around myself. And in one sentence my AH has me right back inside those walls.
Okay pity parties over 🙃
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 73
As he tries to keep the status quo, more venom will spill out his mouth, you’ll find you will have had enough and it will strengthen your resolve to detach more. Keep going to an-anon, and read their book, they should have given you a book
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
farmhousegal…...to respond to your question of "Why do I doubt myself so much?"......I propose that, in a nutshell, it is a sign of low self esteem.
Lowered self esteem generally has its seeds sown in one's growing up years--usually sown by our primary caretakers, in some way. So, it is likely that being married to your husband has only served to beat your sense of self and confidence down, even more.....
By the way...when he starts the "inquisition"....remember not to JADE (unless you want to, of course)…
J...justify. A...argue. D...defend. E....explain.
Because, it just leads to stupid exchanges that you will never "win"...and cause you to feel stymied, once again!
Because you wanted to go to the alanon meeting is all the reason that you have to give anyone. Your needs are just as important as anyone else's. You are entitled to your own wants and needs...because you have free will.
Remember. always, that you are his equal....he is not superior to you....and his opinion of you---no matter how demeaning---does, not in any way, diminish your value. Your value is granted by God--or, The Universe.
One of the ways to grow in your own self esteem is to do esteemable things. One way to begin, I believe, is to be with others who value you and validate your feelings. Alanon is on way to begin that. Those who understand and do not sit in judgement. We need the connection others, in a real way. As humans we are wired for that, and we need it....
Another way is to honor your own wants and needs...no matter how tiny....
At baseline...marriage should be a relationship based on mutual equality---with respect and trust as the foundation.
Garmhousegal….another way to view l ast night's exchange is this.....you went to an alanon meeting...and he got mad. So what. Nobody was hurt and nobody died. Today, the earth is still spinning on its own axis, and the locusts did not come. He can stay mad until he gets glad. Nobody can stay in one continuous mood forever. He will just find something else to be p***ed off about, eventually. He will just chase his tail, round and round.
Lowered self esteem generally has its seeds sown in one's growing up years--usually sown by our primary caretakers, in some way. So, it is likely that being married to your husband has only served to beat your sense of self and confidence down, even more.....
By the way...when he starts the "inquisition"....remember not to JADE (unless you want to, of course)…
J...justify. A...argue. D...defend. E....explain.
Because, it just leads to stupid exchanges that you will never "win"...and cause you to feel stymied, once again!
Because you wanted to go to the alanon meeting is all the reason that you have to give anyone. Your needs are just as important as anyone else's. You are entitled to your own wants and needs...because you have free will.
Remember. always, that you are his equal....he is not superior to you....and his opinion of you---no matter how demeaning---does, not in any way, diminish your value. Your value is granted by God--or, The Universe.
One of the ways to grow in your own self esteem is to do esteemable things. One way to begin, I believe, is to be with others who value you and validate your feelings. Alanon is on way to begin that. Those who understand and do not sit in judgement. We need the connection others, in a real way. As humans we are wired for that, and we need it....
Another way is to honor your own wants and needs...no matter how tiny....
At baseline...marriage should be a relationship based on mutual equality---with respect and trust as the foundation.
Garmhousegal….another way to view l ast night's exchange is this.....you went to an alanon meeting...and he got mad. So what. Nobody was hurt and nobody died. Today, the earth is still spinning on its own axis, and the locusts did not come. He can stay mad until he gets glad. Nobody can stay in one continuous mood forever. He will just find something else to be p***ed off about, eventually. He will just chase his tail, round and round.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Originally Posted by dandylion 
farmhousegal…...to respond to your question of "Why do I doubt myself so much?"......I propose that, in a nutshell, it is a sign of low self esteem.
Lowered self esteem generally has its seeds sown in one's growing up years--usually sown by our primary caretakers, in some way. So, it is likely that being married to your husband has only served to beat your sense of self and confidence down, even more.....
By the way...when he starts the "inquisition"....remember not to JADE (unless you want to, of course)…
J...justify. A...argue. D...defend. E....explain.
Because, it just leads to stupid exchanges that you will never "win"...and cause you to feel stymied, once again!
Because you wanted to go to the alanon meeting is all the reason that you have to give anyone. Your needs are just as important as anyone else's. You are entitled to your own wants and needs...because you have free will.
Remember. always, that you are his equal....he is not superior to you....and his opinion of you---no matter how demeaning---does, not in any way, diminish your value. Your value is granted by God--or, The Universe.
One of the ways to grow in your own self esteem is to do esteemable things. One way to begin, I believe, is to be with others who value you and validate your feelings. Alanon is on way to begin that. Those who understand and do not sit in judgement. We need the connection others, in a real way. As humans we are wired for that, and we need it....
Another way is to honor your own wants and needs...no matter how tiny....
At baseline...marriage should be a relationship based on mutual equality---with respect and trust as the foundation.
Farmhousegal….another way to view l ast night's exchange is this.....you went to an alanon meeting...and he got mad. So what. Nobody was hurt and nobody died. Today, the earth is still spinning on its own axis, and the locusts did not come. He can stay mad until he gets glad. Nobody can stay in one continuous mood forever. He will just find something else to be p***ed off about, eventually. He will just chase his tail, round and round.
Lowered self esteem generally has its seeds sown in one's growing up years--usually sown by our primary caretakers, in some way. So, it is likely that being married to your husband has only served to beat your sense of self and confidence down, even more.....
By the way...when he starts the "inquisition"....remember not to JADE (unless you want to, of course)…
J...justify. A...argue. D...defend. E....explain.
Because, it just leads to stupid exchanges that you will never "win"...and cause you to feel stymied, once again!
Because you wanted to go to the alanon meeting is all the reason that you have to give anyone. Your needs are just as important as anyone else's. You are entitled to your own wants and needs...because you have free will.
Remember. always, that you are his equal....he is not superior to you....and his opinion of you---no matter how demeaning---does, not in any way, diminish your value. Your value is granted by God--or, The Universe.
One of the ways to grow in your own self esteem is to do esteemable things. One way to begin, I believe, is to be with others who value you and validate your feelings. Alanon is on way to begin that. Those who understand and do not sit in judgement. We need the connection others, in a real way. As humans we are wired for that, and we need it....
Another way is to honor your own wants and needs...no matter how tiny....
At baseline...marriage should be a relationship based on mutual equality---with respect and trust as the foundation.
Farmhousegal….another way to view l ast night's exchange is this.....you went to an alanon meeting...and he got mad. So what. Nobody was hurt and nobody died. Today, the earth is still spinning on its own axis, and the locusts did not come. He can stay mad until he gets glad. Nobody can stay in one continuous mood forever. He will just find something else to be p***ed off about, eventually. He will just chase his tail, round and round.
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Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Virginia
Posts: 469
Farmhousegal,
I am proud of you that you continued to the meeting. I'm sorry it was spoiled by you AH. You are not betraying him by getting help you need for yourself. He has no clue what Al-Anon is and how it's not about the alcoholic. It's about helping you. Don't worry about not speaking. Most people there first few meeting just listen and get a feel for what it is all about. Just the fact that you were there in a safe place where you didn't have to put up walls for an hour is good.
He will do anything he can to keep you under his control. That's what the alcoholic mind does. Unfortunately the alcohol has him under its control. If it didn't you AH would see how much this is affecting you and see that it is a big deal. You need to put up your boundaries and be strong. You need help just as much as he does. Alcoholism is a family disease.
I'm glad that you are going to go try another meeting. They really help me feel better. I attend a small group usually 12-20 people. they are all good people that I'm starting to get to know and open up to.
I hope you have a good day today. We are here for you. You are not alone in this journey. Be Strong.
I am proud of you that you continued to the meeting. I'm sorry it was spoiled by you AH. You are not betraying him by getting help you need for yourself. He has no clue what Al-Anon is and how it's not about the alcoholic. It's about helping you. Don't worry about not speaking. Most people there first few meeting just listen and get a feel for what it is all about. Just the fact that you were there in a safe place where you didn't have to put up walls for an hour is good.
He will do anything he can to keep you under his control. That's what the alcoholic mind does. Unfortunately the alcohol has him under its control. If it didn't you AH would see how much this is affecting you and see that it is a big deal. You need to put up your boundaries and be strong. You need help just as much as he does. Alcoholism is a family disease.
I'm glad that you are going to go try another meeting. They really help me feel better. I attend a small group usually 12-20 people. they are all good people that I'm starting to get to know and open up to.
I hope you have a good day today. We are here for you. You are not alone in this journey. Be Strong.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: The Beach
Posts: 1,106
Originally Posted by FarmhouseGal
I allowed him to ruin my whole experience and make me feel like I was betraying him by doing something for myself. I sit here now overthinking things once again. A little proud that I at least followed thru and went but also knowing my AH will surely have more to say next time we talk. Why do I feel so weak and meager to this man? I wish I could just not care what he thinks or says. Why do I doubt myself so much!!?? I read others stories here and become inspired to take time for me and to come out of this fortress I’ve built around myself. And in one sentence my AH has me right back inside those walls.
First , and most of important of all, I am so glad you went to the alanon meeting despite his manipulative words and your own doubts. I am also glad you plan to give it another shot!
I think it is very important that you acknowledge the fact that you allowed his words to affect you the way they did. That is actually a very big step in the right direction. It took me a very long (and painful) time to realize that most of the harm my AXH did to me were things that I had allowed him to bring into my life, even if passively, by "simply" turning a blind eye to bad behavior.
Active alcoholics are selfish and manipulative. It is part of the disease and it is how they protect their right to live the way they choose. He said what he said, because #1 in his mind everything revolves around him and his alcohol, and #2 he wanted you to feel just exactly the way you did... it's important that he keep YOU in check to protect HIMSELF.
A sober and mentally healthy spouse would encourage you to do anything positive that was about you gaining back your own strength. Meetings, counselling, medication, whatever... However an addict spouse, seeks first to shelter their disease and then will throw anyone who gets in their way under the bus. This forum is full of people who have been under that bus.
You don't HAVE to talk to your husband about your alanon meetings, but if you choose to do that, you can always explain that your alanon meetings are about YOU, not about HIM.
Learning how to erect and enforce my personal boundaries is what really helped me get my own feet back under me. It wasn't easy, it took some practice, but it was worth it. Reading here on this forum and reading the book, "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie taught me how to do that.
Just because he has you where he wants you doesn't mean you have to stay there. Keep working on you. If you keep doing that, soon his words wont have quite the same negative effects.
*hugs*
Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Wareham, Mass
Posts: 7,067
Hi, FG.
Very, very common for the addict to think that the partner is going to dish out all the bad behavior.
That does happen, don’t get me wrong, but, IMO, it’s in the context of a newcomer to the group telling his or her story.
While Al-Anon members, again, IMO, don’t discourage the personal, at least, in the beginning, the goal is to share members’ experience, strength, and hope to all.
Keep going, find different meetings, hang in there. Could be a game changer for you.
Very, very common for the addict to think that the partner is going to dish out all the bad behavior.
That does happen, don’t get me wrong, but, IMO, it’s in the context of a newcomer to the group telling his or her story.
While Al-Anon members, again, IMO, don’t discourage the personal, at least, in the beginning, the goal is to share members’ experience, strength, and hope to all.
Keep going, find different meetings, hang in there. Could be a game changer for you.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 134
J...justify. A...argue. D...defend. E....explain.
👆🏼 I have never heard this before. I’ve reread it several times and this is exactly what I’ve been doing. I’m starting to see all the subtle ways AH’s been doing this to me. As for low self esteem I reckon this has been building slowly and I know I have this problem. I had a wonderful childhood, youngest of 4 girls who are all now my best friends. I do blame my AH for my low self esteem. Years of little comments: why are you putting make up on?, you can’t wear that, who are you trying to impress? Thinking back to our wedding day, I got up to leave our head table and he actually said “sit back down, don’t leave me sitting here alone” and of course I did. I still remember how that made me feel. And it was out of character for him at the time to talk to me like that. You get the picture. I am going to order some of the recommended books today and get my glasses out.
As for Al Anon I can see how they are all close friends and share a bond. I will go again. I’m not sure our marriage can be saved but I do want him to get better, get help, anything but how he’s living now. If not for me then for our children. Thank you all for the kind words and encouragement ☀️
👆🏼 I have never heard this before. I’ve reread it several times and this is exactly what I’ve been doing. I’m starting to see all the subtle ways AH’s been doing this to me. As for low self esteem I reckon this has been building slowly and I know I have this problem. I had a wonderful childhood, youngest of 4 girls who are all now my best friends. I do blame my AH for my low self esteem. Years of little comments: why are you putting make up on?, you can’t wear that, who are you trying to impress? Thinking back to our wedding day, I got up to leave our head table and he actually said “sit back down, don’t leave me sitting here alone” and of course I did. I still remember how that made me feel. And it was out of character for him at the time to talk to me like that. You get the picture. I am going to order some of the recommended books today and get my glasses out.
As for Al Anon I can see how they are all close friends and share a bond. I will go again. I’m not sure our marriage can be saved but I do want him to get better, get help, anything but how he’s living now. If not for me then for our children. Thank you all for the kind words and encouragement ☀️
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,617
Originally Posted by FarmhouseGal
I’m not sure our marriage can be saved but I do want him to get better, get help, anything but how he’s living now. If not for me then for our children. Thank you all for the kind words and encouragement
“sit back down, don’t leave me sitting here alone” and of course I did. I still remember how that made me feel.
That should be your focus. Not how badly he has treated you all these years (although that should be kept in mind) but how you were before. I'm guessing you had normal self-esteem and were a fairly happy person? Close with your family and friends.
Why are you meek with him? Well, if you are a kind person, it's easy to get stuck in that role really. As you mentioned, out of the blue, in behaviour that wasn't the norm, he tells you to "sit down" at your wedding. It caught you off-guard with a person you didn't think you would need to have your guard up with.
Slowly, over the years he has chipped away at your self-worth and self-esteem.
Even after all that you mention you want HIM to get better.
Perhaps it is time to take the focus off him completely, you are the one that needs help to regain your life and yourself and only you are going to do that, he will be of zero help.
Not sure if you have read the Quackers thread, but his diatribe last night about you going to Al-Anon is just that, quack quack quack, no need to take it seriously, he is just focusing on the number 1 person in his life - him.
Keep doing what you are doing, you are on the right path.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 62
Just takes practice. But I can see how one little thing can bring it all back. My week has been exactly that. I love that we can all post on here and we have this support. Being in these types of relationships is really in a world of its own. When I doubt myself, I stop on this forum and remind myself that we are all going through the same things. Even though I have never met any of you I think of you in those times. So strange. Keep posting. Keep going to your meetings. You do matter. Hugs
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,617
I don't know if you've read the Gaslighting thread on that is on the forum right now but there is a link there to an article you might find interesting:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...k-your-reality
If you think about it, your AH is living in his own world of right and wrong and he is right and everyone and everything else is wrong. You don't need to be in that tornado of alcoholism with him.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...k-your-reality
If you think about it, your AH is living in his own world of right and wrong and he is right and everyone and everything else is wrong. You don't need to be in that tornado of alcoholism with him.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
i'm curious - in your Alanon meeting last night - how much trash talking did you hear? any? was it as your AH views it a "b1tch and moan" session - OR were people talking about THEMSELVES, their feelings, their fears, their hopes?
i agree that i would not divulge future attendance. no need. just fuels HIS fire. for him, it hits too close to home - you are pulling his covers, so to speak. and he will be on the attack.
Why do I feel so weak and meager to this man? <<that deserves a LOT of attention.
i agree that i would not divulge future attendance. no need. just fuels HIS fire. for him, it hits too close to home - you are pulling his covers, so to speak. and he will be on the attack.
Why do I feel so weak and meager to this man? <<that deserves a LOT of attention.
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Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 395
My ex girlfriend used to call me obsessively DURING my Al-Anon meetings!! Grrrrrrr
I still become angry even thinking about it!
She knew I was there... & was trying to control me/my thoughts. I get what you went/are going through!
Yeah, agree w/others... best to not mention when you’re going to meetings. It’s just your private healing time. Honestly an active alcoholic will turn everything you do... that is healing... upside down and then throw it right in your face!
Alcoholics prey on the weaknesses of others. He knew his words would upset you. My ex knew exactly how to hurt me. When you truly understand this... it begins to hurt less.
I think emotional strength comes from taking all these little steps. Being on this forum is a step. All of this takes courage! You’ve gotta start taking pride in all the little things you do... and soon the powerful being inside... will empower you, not him!
I still become angry even thinking about it!
She knew I was there... & was trying to control me/my thoughts. I get what you went/are going through!
Yeah, agree w/others... best to not mention when you’re going to meetings. It’s just your private healing time. Honestly an active alcoholic will turn everything you do... that is healing... upside down and then throw it right in your face!
Alcoholics prey on the weaknesses of others. He knew his words would upset you. My ex knew exactly how to hurt me. When you truly understand this... it begins to hurt less.
I think emotional strength comes from taking all these little steps. Being on this forum is a step. All of this takes courage! You’ve gotta start taking pride in all the little things you do... and soon the powerful being inside... will empower you, not him!
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Farmhousegal…….about your wedding....I thought of another aspect.....
I live in the States, and, at one time, many of the wedding ceremonies actually had the words "love, honor. and, OBEY" in the wedding vows. Now, the word "obey" has been pretty much eliminated from the ceremony.....
But...at one time, that word "obey" was taken quite literally in marriages....this is well documented by my own mother and grandmother and tons of literature on the subject. That very patriarchal view of marriage is still observed in some locations. The male is the head and leader of the household, kind of thing....
I am wondering if your husband had a patriarchal view of marriage--or still holds that attitude, now? Is it possible that remnants of this older view of marriage roles could have been passed on to you through various ways, in the general culture? That a good wife should "please" the husband? that the proper role for the wife is to be the supportive, more passive one in the relationship.....
I am sharing these thoughts for your consideration......food for thought.....
I live in the States, and, at one time, many of the wedding ceremonies actually had the words "love, honor. and, OBEY" in the wedding vows. Now, the word "obey" has been pretty much eliminated from the ceremony.....
But...at one time, that word "obey" was taken quite literally in marriages....this is well documented by my own mother and grandmother and tons of literature on the subject. That very patriarchal view of marriage is still observed in some locations. The male is the head and leader of the household, kind of thing....
I am wondering if your husband had a patriarchal view of marriage--or still holds that attitude, now? Is it possible that remnants of this older view of marriage roles could have been passed on to you through various ways, in the general culture? That a good wife should "please" the husband? that the proper role for the wife is to be the supportive, more passive one in the relationship.....
I am sharing these thoughts for your consideration......food for thought.....
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Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 135
This scenario sounds all too familiar. My AH flipped his lid the first time I told him I was going to Al-Anon. Seems that our conversation might have even been the same. I hope that you can find some peace and hope in the meetings. This blog is a great source of experience in all stages. I sometimes come here just to read. I remain in that same "meek" stage so I am not here to offer any advice. Just a simple (although unfortunate) reminder that we are not alone in this fight.
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