What do you make of this?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 36
What do you make of this?
Something really brief -- I've been struggling with my AH's behavior (and am stressing out ). He did apologize to the people at post office and said he wasn't feeling himself that day, but when I asked him later what he meant, he said he doesn't want me to ask him ANY QUESTIONS EVER AGAIN ABOUT ANYTHING.
Me: No questions ever about anything? What's that supposed to mean?
AH: WHAT DID I JUST SAY? NOTHING!!
Okie-dokie. It's very bizarre and hurtful, but whatever.
So....someone called me to tell me that this happened after my AH's AA meeting the other day and that they were very surprised at his reaction.
My AH was outside talking to someone, when another person said to him, "Have a nice day!" and my AH starts yelling at him, "What are you, my wife? Don't tell me what to do!!!"
What do you all make of that? I don't know if he meant it as a joke, but it doesn't seem very funny to me. :0(
Me: No questions ever about anything? What's that supposed to mean?
AH: WHAT DID I JUST SAY? NOTHING!!
Okie-dokie. It's very bizarre and hurtful, but whatever.
So....someone called me to tell me that this happened after my AH's AA meeting the other day and that they were very surprised at his reaction.
My AH was outside talking to someone, when another person said to him, "Have a nice day!" and my AH starts yelling at him, "What are you, my wife? Don't tell me what to do!!!"
What do you all make of that? I don't know if he meant it as a joke, but it doesn't seem very funny to me. :0(
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,637
sheepherder, alcoholism is progressive, the alcoholic that you know now is not necessarily who he will be in 6 months, a year, 10 years from now.
Alcohol damages the brain. It interrupts functions, it changes them (it's also why the craving is so strong for more alcohol). That's a nutshell version.
So first flying off the handle and yelling at everyone at the end of August and now this. Hurtful, mean, completely shutting you out. Your opinion on anything is now no longer required.
You know he's not kidding, I can tell by what you have written.
In a healthy relationship, the other person, by and large, has your back. Has he got your back?
Do you feel like you know what a healthy relationship really looks like? Is that what you want for yourself?
Alcohol damages the brain. It interrupts functions, it changes them (it's also why the craving is so strong for more alcohol). That's a nutshell version.
So first flying off the handle and yelling at everyone at the end of August and now this. Hurtful, mean, completely shutting you out. Your opinion on anything is now no longer required.
You know he's not kidding, I can tell by what you have written.
In a healthy relationship, the other person, by and large, has your back. Has he got your back?
https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/b...y-relationship
"Caring, kindness, support, encouragement, and empathy are the watchwords of a good and loving relationship. There is simply no room for rudeness, meanness, jealousy, insulting, degrading, blaming, guilting, criticizing, judging, or physically acting out, especially when the object is one's partner. Those boundaries cannot be crossed.
Remember: When you decide to join your life with another person, it’s about embarking on a journey together, for years to come. You don’t give up who you are and neither does your partner. You each retain your individuality, joining the best of who you are for your common good, and if you so decide, for your family".
"Caring, kindness, support, encouragement, and empathy are the watchwords of a good and loving relationship. There is simply no room for rudeness, meanness, jealousy, insulting, degrading, blaming, guilting, criticizing, judging, or physically acting out, especially when the object is one's partner. Those boundaries cannot be crossed.
Remember: When you decide to join your life with another person, it’s about embarking on a journey together, for years to come. You don’t give up who you are and neither does your partner. You each retain your individuality, joining the best of who you are for your common good, and if you so decide, for your family".
Member
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 471
Wow. There's a lot going on in his head. Many a true word said in jest...
I have many things I cant talk to AH about because they will be met with a belittling or nasty comment. You should not have to walk on eggshells. Life is not meant to be that way.
I have many things I cant talk to AH about because they will be met with a belittling or nasty comment. You should not have to walk on eggshells. Life is not meant to be that way.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 190
What do you all make of that?
My honest opinion? He sounds like an a$$hole.
How do I know? Because my AXBF was a grade-A a$$hole, too. He was in constant feuds with co-workers, but he was never the problem. I was always told to "just let him do his thing," because he was never the problem.
Your husband, between yelling at postal workers, trying to shut up his significant other, and now yelling at complete strangers, sounds like a problem. My heart goes out to you. You do not have to tolerate this behavior.
My honest opinion? He sounds like an a$$hole.
How do I know? Because my AXBF was a grade-A a$$hole, too. He was in constant feuds with co-workers, but he was never the problem. I was always told to "just let him do his thing," because he was never the problem.
Your husband, between yelling at postal workers, trying to shut up his significant other, and now yelling at complete strangers, sounds like a problem. My heart goes out to you. You do not have to tolerate this behavior.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
is it that much of a surprise that the same man who was an out of control drunk is now an out of control not-drinking-at-the-moment jerk?
so many people, on both sides, think that everything will instantly get better if they would JUST.STOP.DRINKING. like all problems will be solved and the universe will shower them with gifts and abundance.
there is a very good reason why many long term recovering alcoholics continue to attend AA on a regular basis. 30 years later and they STILL show up. it ain't for the coffee.
alcoholism is an illness that effects all parts of the human biology - the brain, the body, the spirit. the alcoholic brain has a warped sense of reality, spotty memory, crazy beliefs. one's very comprehension of their existence on the planet is twisted, inflated, convoluted. simply not pouring any more alcohol IN does nothing to repair that, it only stops making the problem worse.
remember the Deepwater Horizon disaster? the problems were not solved when they finally sealed off the leak. that was only the BEGINNING of the recovery efforts. 4 million barrels of crude had already poured into the ocean.
so many people, on both sides, think that everything will instantly get better if they would JUST.STOP.DRINKING. like all problems will be solved and the universe will shower them with gifts and abundance.
there is a very good reason why many long term recovering alcoholics continue to attend AA on a regular basis. 30 years later and they STILL show up. it ain't for the coffee.
alcoholism is an illness that effects all parts of the human biology - the brain, the body, the spirit. the alcoholic brain has a warped sense of reality, spotty memory, crazy beliefs. one's very comprehension of their existence on the planet is twisted, inflated, convoluted. simply not pouring any more alcohol IN does nothing to repair that, it only stops making the problem worse.
remember the Deepwater Horizon disaster? the problems were not solved when they finally sealed off the leak. that was only the BEGINNING of the recovery efforts. 4 million barrels of crude had already poured into the ocean.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,426
How are you coping / insulating yourself against such toxic behavior?
This is the kind of thing that can make you physically ill and mentally fragile.
Do you think an exit plan which is “date stamped “ would be helpful to get you some traction out of this situation?
This is the kind of thing that can make you physically ill and mentally fragile.
Do you think an exit plan which is “date stamped “ would be helpful to get you some traction out of this situation?
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,637
Sorry sheepherder, I kind of missed the fact that he is attending AA now - so he's not drinking or slowing down or?
If he is not drinking or slowing down then he is just white knuckling it and the behaviour is pretty standard - anger.
That doesn't help you at all, of course. Until such time as he really embraces recovery all you have is an alcoholic without a drink and that never goes well.
I know you were struggling with detaching but it will save your sanity. I hope you are attending Al-Anon?
If he is not drinking or slowing down then he is just white knuckling it and the behaviour is pretty standard - anger.
That doesn't help you at all, of course. Until such time as he really embraces recovery all you have is an alcoholic without a drink and that never goes well.
I know you were struggling with detaching but it will save your sanity. I hope you are attending Al-Anon?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 36
So this is the thing about my AH. Since I met him 40 years ago, he's always gone to AA. I can't remember a day when he's not been at an AA meeting other than when he's been deathly sick. On Saturdays he goes twice a day. (Yes, even that day when we were out and he was so crazy, he went to a meeting at 8 a.m. and at 6 p.m.)
I met him when I was 18 and he was 27. I left high school a year early to start college and met him when he was giving a talk about drug use and alcohol to a group that I attended for what they called college and career aged people at a local church. He was given his first alcoholic drink at age 5, and started using cocaine when he was 16. He was horrifically abused as a child and young person. By the time I met him, he was three years sober.
We married two years later when I was 20. He sponsored many people in the past in AA and had his own sponsor. He's talked at speaker meetings. I've sat there and listened to him and cried my eyes out listening to his story. Every last one of his friends when he was a drug user/drunk are all dead today. Every single one. When we would hear of someone passing away, he would say, "There but for the grace of God go I." I guess that's exactly right. The first time I saw him drunk I was 47 years old. 30 years of sobriety and he starts drinking? I can't understand it. I know that can happen, but it's so unfathomable to me. He knows exactly how to stop drinking. Now he goes to an AA meeting, and on the way home stops at the liquor store to buy beer. I asked him at one point why he's going to AA if he leaves the meeting and drinks, and he said it helps to hear people's stories. Does it?
This afternoon he came to me and seemingly sincerely apologized for his recent behavior and said he knows it is unacceptable, that he wants to be a better person, but that I am partly culpable. Am I? That was the wrong thing to say to me. Where was the duct tape? I just got more upset with him. Then he proceeded to tell me part of the problem is that he needs something to do all day as he only works two hours at night. He's decided to take a job as a delivery person for a local deli during lunch hours so he'll need the car back. I started immediately crying (I didn't really want to, it just came out). I felt totally out of control. I said no freaking way. He said this is the problem, that I'm trying to control him, that I am too opinionated (!!) and I am too emotional. I said, No, I am the only sane person in the room and I'm trying to protect everyone from him. He said he would never drive drunk again. I said that, Well, the best predictor of future behavior is the past, and he said if I'm always bringing up his past, he has no chance of making things right because I'm always predicting failure.
I run my business out of my home. I told him it would be so helpful to me if he would be more active in the business, as he used to be. I am exhausted and overworked lately. I have deadlines/trial dates/presentations/meetings to attend. He said he didn't want me to be his boss and tell him what to do. I said, I don't want to be his boss. I want a sober partner. How about that, you jerk (oops)? I had to go out to calm down. A little retail therapy never hurts.
When I got in later, he apologized again and said he thought about it and wouldn't take the delivery job since he could see how upset I was (doh) and would help me out, but he'd like a date certain for getting the car back. I said how about getting sober first since he was drunk yesterday, and then we'll talk about it. He said I'm always and forever persecuting him. I was speechless. That's where we left it.
Working at home and seeing him getting drunk outside or in the basement throughout the day is not helpful for the efficiency of my job to say the least. Some days I am so distracted I can't get any work done.
I'm going to Al-Anon twice a week. It makes me very emotional. I am losing sleep over this. This past week I was nervous and nauseous. Next week I'm going to a spa with a girlfriend for the weekend. I need to clear my head.
I met him on his 27th birthday on 9/1/79. We went on our first date tomorrow forty years ago, 9/15/79. What a crazy life it turned out to be.
Thanks for all your input. I really do appreciate it.
I met him when I was 18 and he was 27. I left high school a year early to start college and met him when he was giving a talk about drug use and alcohol to a group that I attended for what they called college and career aged people at a local church. He was given his first alcoholic drink at age 5, and started using cocaine when he was 16. He was horrifically abused as a child and young person. By the time I met him, he was three years sober.
We married two years later when I was 20. He sponsored many people in the past in AA and had his own sponsor. He's talked at speaker meetings. I've sat there and listened to him and cried my eyes out listening to his story. Every last one of his friends when he was a drug user/drunk are all dead today. Every single one. When we would hear of someone passing away, he would say, "There but for the grace of God go I." I guess that's exactly right. The first time I saw him drunk I was 47 years old. 30 years of sobriety and he starts drinking? I can't understand it. I know that can happen, but it's so unfathomable to me. He knows exactly how to stop drinking. Now he goes to an AA meeting, and on the way home stops at the liquor store to buy beer. I asked him at one point why he's going to AA if he leaves the meeting and drinks, and he said it helps to hear people's stories. Does it?
This afternoon he came to me and seemingly sincerely apologized for his recent behavior and said he knows it is unacceptable, that he wants to be a better person, but that I am partly culpable. Am I? That was the wrong thing to say to me. Where was the duct tape? I just got more upset with him. Then he proceeded to tell me part of the problem is that he needs something to do all day as he only works two hours at night. He's decided to take a job as a delivery person for a local deli during lunch hours so he'll need the car back. I started immediately crying (I didn't really want to, it just came out). I felt totally out of control. I said no freaking way. He said this is the problem, that I'm trying to control him, that I am too opinionated (!!) and I am too emotional. I said, No, I am the only sane person in the room and I'm trying to protect everyone from him. He said he would never drive drunk again. I said that, Well, the best predictor of future behavior is the past, and he said if I'm always bringing up his past, he has no chance of making things right because I'm always predicting failure.
I run my business out of my home. I told him it would be so helpful to me if he would be more active in the business, as he used to be. I am exhausted and overworked lately. I have deadlines/trial dates/presentations/meetings to attend. He said he didn't want me to be his boss and tell him what to do. I said, I don't want to be his boss. I want a sober partner. How about that, you jerk (oops)? I had to go out to calm down. A little retail therapy never hurts.
When I got in later, he apologized again and said he thought about it and wouldn't take the delivery job since he could see how upset I was (doh) and would help me out, but he'd like a date certain for getting the car back. I said how about getting sober first since he was drunk yesterday, and then we'll talk about it. He said I'm always and forever persecuting him. I was speechless. That's where we left it.
Working at home and seeing him getting drunk outside or in the basement throughout the day is not helpful for the efficiency of my job to say the least. Some days I am so distracted I can't get any work done.
I'm going to Al-Anon twice a week. It makes me very emotional. I am losing sleep over this. This past week I was nervous and nauseous. Next week I'm going to a spa with a girlfriend for the weekend. I need to clear my head.
I met him on his 27th birthday on 9/1/79. We went on our first date tomorrow forty years ago, 9/15/79. What a crazy life it turned out to be.
Thanks for all your input. I really do appreciate it.
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Northwest
Posts: 4,215
I’m so sorry...good for you for standing firm on his getting the car back, but this really is like a nightmare you can’t wake up from.
The real question is whether you’re willing to spend anymore years participating in this charade. It’s not going to get better, obviously, and living a lie is so terribly destructive.
Sending you a big hug. Remember, it really has nothing to do with you, no matter what nonsense he’s hurling your way.
My sympathies, sweetie. I hope you can get some rest.
The real question is whether you’re willing to spend anymore years participating in this charade. It’s not going to get better, obviously, and living a lie is so terribly destructive.
Sending you a big hug. Remember, it really has nothing to do with you, no matter what nonsense he’s hurling your way.
My sympathies, sweetie. I hope you can get some rest.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,637
I guess he could be going to AA hoping it will click or maybe just because it's his routine and there are people there he knows.
Honestly it doesn't sound like he is in recovery at all.
Him blaming you for the whole drinking/car thing is a bunch of - twisted thinking. You take the car away from him because he is drinking and driving. When he drinks he drives with no hesitation. That's a fact, period.
A few weeks later well, he's turned over a new leaf and will never do it again, give him the car back.
Huh.
It's partly your fault he drinks because he's bored but wouldn't be if he had the car and this delivery job.
Is that the only job available? Or is it the best job available that gives an excuse to get the car back so he can get out to get alcohol and to the bar during the day?
Anyway, all sounds like pure manipulation tactics. I'm sorry you're not feeling well. Unfortunately this kind of stress does have a physical toll as well. The only way out of it is to separate or separate yourself from your emotional investment here - detach. I'm glad you are holding your boundaries and really glad you are off to the spa next weekend!
Honestly it doesn't sound like he is in recovery at all.
Him blaming you for the whole drinking/car thing is a bunch of - twisted thinking. You take the car away from him because he is drinking and driving. When he drinks he drives with no hesitation. That's a fact, period.
A few weeks later well, he's turned over a new leaf and will never do it again, give him the car back.
Huh.
It's partly your fault he drinks because he's bored but wouldn't be if he had the car and this delivery job.
Is that the only job available? Or is it the best job available that gives an excuse to get the car back so he can get out to get alcohol and to the bar during the day?
Anyway, all sounds like pure manipulation tactics. I'm sorry you're not feeling well. Unfortunately this kind of stress does have a physical toll as well. The only way out of it is to separate or separate yourself from your emotional investment here - detach. I'm glad you are holding your boundaries and really glad you are off to the spa next weekend!
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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sheepherder...….I seem to remember you saying something about your husband being off his medication for depression.....? But, I can't find it, anywhere in your other postings....Am I imagining this?
What I am wondering about is that I see that he has consitently gone to AA, over the years...but, I don't see anything about him being to rehab or therapy since he has returned to drinking these last 9 years...….
I am wondering if he might not have a co-occurring condition that is not adequately addressed by just AA, alone. This is not u n common. If there is a co-occurring condition, and it is not treated, along with the alcoholism, then, neither condition is dealt with.
You have mentioned his alcoholic family and abusive childhood....and, I would think that he would need intensive and long term therapy from those who are qualified to treat abuse. Neglect by neglect, sexual, physical, emotional abuse, etc.... These scars, when they exist, do not go away and do require specialized treatment. I think that the group "Adult Children of Alcoholics" and their literature would be valuable to him, also (in addition to AA)…..
I wonder if he might not be depressed, now, on top of it all.
I am wondering, also, if he would be ameanable to rehab., followed by some months in a sober living house for a substantial period of time, while he gets his teeth into some appropriate therapy? Of course, at his age, he would have to be detoxed first, before rehab...unless he went to a place that does detox, before rehab begins....(that is done in some places). I would be afraid for him to go sober, cold turkey--as it is so dangerous.
It appears that it is getting to the point that you can't tolerate living like this, much longer.....things seem to be getting worse on all counts....It looks like you both are suffering, mightily...…
I think you could, also, use a long break...while he gets sorted out. Thing appear to have gotten so bad, that I think it will take some strong measures and change to make a difference, for both of you.
I don't think that this is a time for half-measures....as it would be too thin of a gruel to be effective....
Drastic times call for drastic measures....
From where I sit...I think that the best person to talk to your husband (and you)...would be an experienced psychiatrist (as they are medical doctors)….to evaluate your husband and guide him through detox and get him into a good rehab and screen him for co-occurring conditions.....He really does need wholistic approach, in my thinking.....
I am just sharing my own thoughts, as I think about the situation. I have worked with many alcoholics, over the years, as well as worked in psychiatry, also.....and, I have seen many, many very sick people.
I believe that your husband can be helped, as well as yourself, with the right kinds of professional treatment ……..
What I am wondering about is that I see that he has consitently gone to AA, over the years...but, I don't see anything about him being to rehab or therapy since he has returned to drinking these last 9 years...….
I am wondering if he might not have a co-occurring condition that is not adequately addressed by just AA, alone. This is not u n common. If there is a co-occurring condition, and it is not treated, along with the alcoholism, then, neither condition is dealt with.
You have mentioned his alcoholic family and abusive childhood....and, I would think that he would need intensive and long term therapy from those who are qualified to treat abuse. Neglect by neglect, sexual, physical, emotional abuse, etc.... These scars, when they exist, do not go away and do require specialized treatment. I think that the group "Adult Children of Alcoholics" and their literature would be valuable to him, also (in addition to AA)…..
I wonder if he might not be depressed, now, on top of it all.
I am wondering, also, if he would be ameanable to rehab., followed by some months in a sober living house for a substantial period of time, while he gets his teeth into some appropriate therapy? Of course, at his age, he would have to be detoxed first, before rehab...unless he went to a place that does detox, before rehab begins....(that is done in some places). I would be afraid for him to go sober, cold turkey--as it is so dangerous.
It appears that it is getting to the point that you can't tolerate living like this, much longer.....things seem to be getting worse on all counts....It looks like you both are suffering, mightily...…
I think you could, also, use a long break...while he gets sorted out. Thing appear to have gotten so bad, that I think it will take some strong measures and change to make a difference, for both of you.
I don't think that this is a time for half-measures....as it would be too thin of a gruel to be effective....
Drastic times call for drastic measures....
From where I sit...I think that the best person to talk to your husband (and you)...would be an experienced psychiatrist (as they are medical doctors)….to evaluate your husband and guide him through detox and get him into a good rehab and screen him for co-occurring conditions.....He really does need wholistic approach, in my thinking.....
I am just sharing my own thoughts, as I think about the situation. I have worked with many alcoholics, over the years, as well as worked in psychiatry, also.....and, I have seen many, many very sick people.
I believe that your husband can be helped, as well as yourself, with the right kinds of professional treatment ……..
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Location: ohio
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A person who is blaming another (you) for his drinking is NOT in recovery. He is suiting up and showing up for AA, which is a plus, but he’s clearly not taking any actual dare I say... STEPS in the program.
You have every right to stand firm. I hope you can do more things to help you feel better, and hopefully you’ll have an easier time not getting sucked into his vortex of quackery.
He’s recovered before, I hope he gets back in the train.
You have every right to stand firm. I hope you can do more things to help you feel better, and hopefully you’ll have an easier time not getting sucked into his vortex of quackery.
He’s recovered before, I hope he gets back in the train.
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Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 573
Simply going to AA meetings doesn't mean a person is in recovery any more than standing in a garage makes you a car. There is an active, ongoing process involved that requires work, and a dedication. It's not just about being sober. AA is about me becoming the best version of me possible, not according to myself, but according to a very specific set of principals that are meant to be lived by. The saying that "recovery looks like recovery" is very true. When it's genuine, ppl around you KNOW it. He may be going to meetings, but I can tell just by how you're explaining things about him that he isn't doing the work. Which is common. A lot of ppl that go to AA don't have the stomach for the really hard stuff. YOU aren't "culpable" for anything. That's a cop out he's using to keep from dealing with his nasty s**t. There's an old AA saying "remember that when you look in the mirror, you're looking at the problem".
Hugs to you. You don't have to put up with his half a**ed effort. And that's exactly what it is.
Hugs to you. You don't have to put up with his half a**ed effort. And that's exactly what it is.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 36
He went to rehab before I met him, a ninety-day stint. I wish he would go to sober living, but he'd never agree to it. He's recommended people in the past to sober living and knows different places in the area, but when I brought it up, he says it's not for him (probably because you can't bring alcohol there).
He's on depression medication, but it does nothing for him as he's drinking.
I've recently asked him if he would think about going to counseling, but he says he doesn't have presently have any issues (!!!!), and he's dealt with his past long ago and doesn't want to revisit it because things are too painful. (Yet in the last few weeks he's been talking about little else but the past which is another strange behavior.)
Yesterday he told me when he was young, it was much easier to overcome his addiction, but now that he's "old," it's much more difficult. What an excuse for doing nothing, no?
He's on depression medication, but it does nothing for him as he's drinking.
I've recently asked him if he would think about going to counseling, but he says he doesn't have presently have any issues (!!!!), and he's dealt with his past long ago and doesn't want to revisit it because things are too painful. (Yet in the last few weeks he's been talking about little else but the past which is another strange behavior.)
Yesterday he told me when he was young, it was much easier to overcome his addiction, but now that he's "old," it's much more difficult. What an excuse for doing nothing, no?
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,637
Originally Posted by sheepherder 
(Yet in the last few weeks he's been talking about little else but the past which is another strange behavior.)
"When the addictive process has lasted long enough and penetrated deeply enough into the life and mind of the addict, the empty space left by the losses caused by progressive, destructive addiction is filled up with regrets, if-onlys and could-have-beens. In early addiction the addict tends to live in the future; in middle and late addiction he begins to dwell more and more in the past. And it is usually an unhappy, bitterly regretted past".
Addiction, Lies and Relationships
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
sheepherder.....rehab before you met him would be ? over 40yrs. ago.
If he is on antidepressants....he must have a doctor that writes the prescription....I would assume?
What about detox under that doctor's supervision, followed by rehab, now.....
If he trusts his current doctor....perhaps his doctor could talk to him....or, even, to the two of you, together...…..
If he is on antidepressants....he must have a doctor that writes the prescription....I would assume?
What about detox under that doctor's supervision, followed by rehab, now.....
If he trusts his current doctor....perhaps his doctor could talk to him....or, even, to the two of you, together...…..
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