thequest

What everyone else mentioned-denial and part of the reason for their consumption.

I've seen them suffer physical consequences and they say the doctors know they 'like' to drink so they don't try to get them to stop. Talk about denial. They also got upset that a dui program knew about their previous duis even decades ago and said they needed rehab or counseling which they appealed/talked themselves out of. It's denial. After a certain period of time of getting away with excessive drinking and not getting caught or fully suffering a consequence they get a bad case of 'not me' syndrome. Not only are they in denial medically but legally as well, they think they can get away with just about anything after a certain point.

pdm22

...usually yes, unless you have a particularly manipulative person on your hands who has learned how play things in such a way to make things believable (unless you are on the ball and can sniff this out).

For example, admitting to it, knowing that for lots of people denial, and having trouble with admitting to having a problem, is the norm & rather common. Playing it like “wow, look how honest I am. My “rigorous honesty”. Then, lying through their teeth about other things, but you’re supposed to believe whatever they tell you, because they were “honest” about having a problem.

Just throwing that out there, I’ve been in a situation like that before. It can be tricky, and it might take some experience to learn how to spot that, and dig yourself out of the bs, because it’s insidious, and layered.

trailmix

So true.

I was just reading about denial actually. We tend of think of denial as something we do from a place of deceit. IE: I'll have this cake but it won't FULLY throw me off my diet, knowing full well the calories in that cake will throw it off for 2 days minimum. Making that choice really knowing the consequences but a denial none the less (bad example but you get my drift).

Conscious denial.

Then there is unconscious denial. An in-built defense mechanism where the defense is believed and backed up by the brain and emotions. Where the non-truth becomes reality.

This, it would seem is the case for many in addiction. While sometimes, on the surface it would seem a simple case of "lying" in fact to them it's not, it is their truth.

Ringside

I did that. It was manipulative and it was effective and it even got me some sympathy. An especially nasty little trick some of us have up our sleeves.

trailmix

Thanks for your reply Ringside, that's helpful.

Can you tell me, when you would be manipulative like that, was there ever a repercussion for you?

I mean being manipulative and aware of it, did you ever feel remorse or guilt or - well whatever it is?

Ringside

That's a good question.

Sitting here now after some time working a solid recovery program, I certainly feel guilty and just...bad about it. I hate that I did that to someone I love.

In those moments, I don't know that I was consciously being manipulative or if doing it just came naturally because, well, I was in the habit of being manipulative. Perhaps a little of both: I knew it would take some pressure off, and I really wanted that more than anything, and knew the best (only?) way to achieve that was to discuss my "problem" in sincere and sometimes emotional terms. So I guess I would say that at that time I did not feel remorse or guilt, and I think that is fairly typical of an active alcoholic - we are self-centered to the extreme, so there isn't much room for thinking about how our actions impact other people. We just want to drink how we want to drink, and the end justifies the means.

My recommendation in dealing with someone like that is to look past the words and see if he or she is actually doing something different in life to get healthy. If nothing changes, nothing changes, as they say.

I hope that helps...sometimes an active alcoholic's thoughts and motivations can be a little blurry and it can be hard to describe.

pdm22

^Thank you for sharing that, Ringside.

The person I have in mind would do something similar at times (admit to having a problem while still actively drinking).

Also he would admit to the problem, but go on these supposed health /finding himself kicks- but really, he was creating distance because he was screwing around with multiple people, and you didn’t really know for sure what was real or not with the substance abuse (because of the distance).

But he presented himself as “honest”, so you were just supposed to believe him about everything else, I guess? A mess for sure. I think you’re right, though- look for what the person is actually doing. Are they in active, consistent recovery, with some kind of support? Otherwise it is the self centeredness to the extreme that you are dealing with/ seeing.

trailmix

Yes, thanks Ringside, that's kind of how I understood it but hearing it from someone who has actually experienced it is important I think.

I know dredging it up is not exactly fun but it helps clarify things here so thanks again.

I'm glad you are in recovery!