Whose responsibility is it?
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Join Date: Nov 2018
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Whose responsibility is it?
It’s been a long time since I’ve posted here. I’m out of the daily caring for an XABF, but still in contact. His health is failing in all the expected ways and my opinion is that he has brain damage from all the seizures and alcohol. His thinking is not rational. He’s completely run out of money now and will be homeless soon unless I step in financially. He’s sober - I think. I don’t really know as I no longer live in the same state. But regardless, the damage is done. He can’t work and it’s years before he can begin to collect social security.
So my question for the group is whose responsibility is it to keep him and people like him off the street? There are 60,000 homeless people in my city alone. I hear a lot of people say it’s not your responsibility to keep someone from being homeless. I don’t disagree. But whose responsibility is it? If everyone says it’s not my responsibility, then we have a situation that we have now. 60,000 people living in the street in one city. That just seems unacceptable in a country that claims to be the ‘richest’ in the world.
So my question for the group is whose responsibility is it to keep him and people like him off the street? There are 60,000 homeless people in my city alone. I hear a lot of people say it’s not your responsibility to keep someone from being homeless. I don’t disagree. But whose responsibility is it? If everyone says it’s not my responsibility, then we have a situation that we have now. 60,000 people living in the street in one city. That just seems unacceptable in a country that claims to be the ‘richest’ in the world.
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Join Date: Dec 2013
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Originally Posted by CakeLady4000 
I hear a lot of people say it’s not your responsibility to keep someone from being homeless. I don’t disagree. But whose responsibility is it? If everyone says it’s not my responsibility, then we have a situation that we have now. 60,000 people living in the street in one city. That just seems unacceptable in a country that claims to be the ‘richest’ in the world.
I live in New York City. We have a very extensive shelter system here and no one HAS to live on the street. There are programs even for able-bodied men to get them into subsidized housing, addiction programs and employment services -- all of these programs are free for the recipients -- they are paid for by government and by the tax payers.
In your exab's case, you say that he is sober? What do you think would help him? Can he get food stamps? Section 8 rent assistance? Are there any work assistance programs with your state's department of social services?
Those who take advantage of this type of help often do quite well; those who refuse help or who don't want to / are unable to deal with their addictions don't do so well.
Ultimately though, I would say that it is the responsibility of the homeless and / or addicted person to work on their situation. Actions have consequences. This is life. We can help help help till we're drained dry. But if a person chooses to overdo it with drink / drugs or many other things they will have bad outcomes, and there is nothing that we can do change this fact. Just read some of the stories on this board to see how absolutely twisted some peoples' lives get as they try to "help" their alcoholic / addict. They become even sicker than the alcoholic.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
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It is the same where I live, all those programs are available that needabreak mentioned. No one has to live on the street, although the only accommodation available might be a shelter.
I would recommend he go and see the salvation army.
I would recommend he go and see the salvation army.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
I agree with the replies above.
There is help.
He may need to be sober to access it. I know some shelters don't let people in who are obviously intoxicated. He can find sober living houses once he is detoxed. Churches and shelters and even hospitals can steer him toward help, but it's still 100% up to him.
If he wants to help himself, there are plenty of helping hands out there. They will all have some requests/requirements of him, and #1 will be show up straight.
Salvation Army has a free rehab program.
There is help.
He may need to be sober to access it. I know some shelters don't let people in who are obviously intoxicated. He can find sober living houses once he is detoxed. Churches and shelters and even hospitals can steer him toward help, but it's still 100% up to him.
If he wants to help himself, there are plenty of helping hands out there. They will all have some requests/requirements of him, and #1 will be show up straight.
Salvation Army has a free rehab program.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
Those 60,000 homeless in your city.
Are you suggesting that there is no help for them, because I don't believe that. I live in a large U.S. city. There are about 30,000 homeless. Most of them are likely addicts, although some of them are probably people just down on their luck or just people who cannot fit in and don't want to. There are many who want to live that way.
I offered jobs to three different homeless men when I had a business. None of them took me up on it.
I was homeless twice in my life; once due to my own inability to plan ahead and find a decent job, and once because of domestic abuse.
I managed to get myself out of that both times with no help from family, and it hasn't happened again in the last 40 years.
Are you suggesting that there is no help for them, because I don't believe that. I live in a large U.S. city. There are about 30,000 homeless. Most of them are likely addicts, although some of them are probably people just down on their luck or just people who cannot fit in and don't want to. There are many who want to live that way.
I offered jobs to three different homeless men when I had a business. None of them took me up on it.
I was homeless twice in my life; once due to my own inability to plan ahead and find a decent job, and once because of domestic abuse.
I managed to get myself out of that both times with no help from family, and it hasn't happened again in the last 40 years.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
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where i live we too have a huge (and growing) homeless problem. it's like it's becoming a THING. legal and illegal homeless camps everywhere, in every conceivable empty space. filth and human waste on city streets, drug deal and drug use out in the open, in broad daylight.
komo news made an excellent video Seattle is Dying. it's gritty and real and sad and asks the same question........who is responsible? how do we fix this?
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...n_seattle.html
komo news made an excellent video Seattle is Dying. it's gritty and real and sad and asks the same question........who is responsible? how do we fix this?
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...n_seattle.html
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I agree that there is work available for those who can do it. He can’t. He’s dying. He has food aid and medical aid. Housing is a 10 year waitlist. Yes, actions have consequences....but this is a disease, right? Would you tell someone dying of breast cancer to get a job?
I’m just playing devils advocate and running the script I constantly replay in my head. Believe me, I know the havoc that helping an addict can create and more often than not, it does absolutely no good for the addict and is often harmful. But I also know from experience with the system, that it is difficult to navigate with lots of hoops and dead ends to get through. I had difficulty navigating it...I can’t imagine doing it drunk.
Someone asked what kind of help I would like to see? I’d like to see safe well run compassionate public facilities paid for by state taxes for people who are too old or indigent to work. Or the social security age lowered to 60 years. I’m in good shape and don’t drink, but even I am not sure I’ll be able to work until 67.
I just really don’t want to pay for his apartment and I don’t want to send a dying person to the street. There just seems like no good options. I’m rambling. Forgive me. I hate this situation.
For those of you you not married with no kids, run run run as fast and far as you can immediately. Let go or be dragged...it’s the best thing I heard in Alanon.
I’m just playing devils advocate and running the script I constantly replay in my head. Believe me, I know the havoc that helping an addict can create and more often than not, it does absolutely no good for the addict and is often harmful. But I also know from experience with the system, that it is difficult to navigate with lots of hoops and dead ends to get through. I had difficulty navigating it...I can’t imagine doing it drunk.
Someone asked what kind of help I would like to see? I’d like to see safe well run compassionate public facilities paid for by state taxes for people who are too old or indigent to work. Or the social security age lowered to 60 years. I’m in good shape and don’t drink, but even I am not sure I’ll be able to work until 67.
I just really don’t want to pay for his apartment and I don’t want to send a dying person to the street. There just seems like no good options. I’m rambling. Forgive me. I hate this situation.
For those of you you not married with no kids, run run run as fast and far as you can immediately. Let go or be dragged...it’s the best thing I heard in Alanon.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
but this is a disease, right?
yup, but one that can be stopped dead in it's tracks by doing one thing - stop using.
i'm a former addict, i GET that it ain't as easy as clicking your heels and wishing the addiction away. but it can be done. other diseases don't have that type of remedy, which assures life long remission.
once mental illness or brain damage enters the picture, things get murky and solutions are not as easy to achieve. it does concern me that YOU still feel responsible and feel that if you do not intervene, his life is a one way ticket to homelessness. that you are truly his only solution. that's a monster sense of guilt and obligation to saddle oneself with..........
yup, but one that can be stopped dead in it's tracks by doing one thing - stop using.
i'm a former addict, i GET that it ain't as easy as clicking your heels and wishing the addiction away. but it can be done. other diseases don't have that type of remedy, which assures life long remission.
once mental illness or brain damage enters the picture, things get murky and solutions are not as easy to achieve. it does concern me that YOU still feel responsible and feel that if you do not intervene, his life is a one way ticket to homelessness. that you are truly his only solution. that's a monster sense of guilt and obligation to saddle oneself with..........
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
So my question for the group is whose responsibility is it to keep him and people like him off the street?
oll answer this with some questions:
is there any responsibility put on the people that are homeless for their situation? is someone else responsible for them ending up on the streets?
the video anvilhead has a link to says a LOT.
one thing that gets under my skin when i read it is people comparing alcoholism to cancer-ANY form of cancer. they are not comparable.
ill leave it at that before i go off.
greatful to be a cancer fighting mammer jammer who also chose to get help to get sober 1 year before the fight started.
i CHOSE to get help.
oll answer this with some questions:
is there any responsibility put on the people that are homeless for their situation? is someone else responsible for them ending up on the streets?
the video anvilhead has a link to says a LOT.
one thing that gets under my skin when i read it is people comparing alcoholism to cancer-ANY form of cancer. they are not comparable.
ill leave it at that before i go off.
greatful to be a cancer fighting mammer jammer who also chose to get help to get sober 1 year before the fight started.
i CHOSE to get help.
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Join Date: Nov 2018
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
but this is a disease, right?
yup, but one that can be stopped dead in it's tracks by doing one thing - stop using.
i'm a former addict, i GET that it ain't as easy as clicking your heels and wishing the addiction away. but it can be done. other diseases don't have that type of remedy, which assures life long remission.
once mental illness or brain damage enters the picture, things get murky and solutions are not as easy to achieve. it does concern me that YOU still feel responsible and feel that if you do not intervene, his life is a one way ticket to homelessness. that you are truly his only solution. that's a monster sense of guilt and obligation to saddle oneself with..........
yup, but one that can be stopped dead in it's tracks by doing one thing - stop using.
i'm a former addict, i GET that it ain't as easy as clicking your heels and wishing the addiction away. but it can be done. other diseases don't have that type of remedy, which assures life long remission.
once mental illness or brain damage enters the picture, things get murky and solutions are not as easy to achieve. it does concern me that YOU still feel responsible and feel that if you do not intervene, his life is a one way ticket to homelessness. that you are truly his only solution. that's a monster sense of guilt and obligation to saddle oneself with..........
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
The bottom for codependents is similar to that of addicts.
Have you had enough yet?
Because once I understood that I was causing all my own grief with addiction AND with codependency I then understood I could save myself.
Have you had enough yet?
Because once I understood that I was causing all my own grief with addiction AND with codependency I then understood I could save myself.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
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so how about you volunteer at one or some of the many agencies that DO have outreach and help others? check out United Way's Day of Caring (coming up soon here in my area). food banks. soup kitchens. packing school supplies for needy kids. hospitals spending time with patients.
get into the trenches and lend your time, talents and treasures. the rewards are immense and you ARE actually helping those who truly want help.
get into the trenches and lend your time, talents and treasures. the rewards are immense and you ARE actually helping those who truly want help.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,619
Originally Posted by CakeLady4000
I spent years in therapy trying to change it. The best I’ve managed to do is manage it and try to detach and avoid situations.
If he has no consequences, what motivation does he have to stop? Not saying you are the person that should bestow motivation on him, not at all, you actually are not responsible for him.
You may be hurting more than you are helping him?
I don't know this, I don't know enough about your situation to make that judgement, just throwing it out there.
Codependency is not about helping others. I think your approach is commendable, wanting to help others. Your motivation and the result of that is what needs to be looked at to decide who you are helping, them or you.
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
so how about you volunteer at one or some of the many agencies that DO have outreach and help others? check out United Way's Day of Caring (coming up soon here in my area). food banks. soup kitchens. packing school supplies for needy kids. hospitals spending time with patients.
get into the trenches and lend your time, talents and treasures. the rewards are immense and you ARE actually helping those who truly want help.
get into the trenches and lend your time, talents and treasures. the rewards are immense and you ARE actually helping those who truly want help.
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Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 15
Originally Posted by trailmix
I think though, you can get so involved you have to take a step back and say, am I actually helping?
If he has no consequences, what motivation does he have to stop? Not saying you are the person that should bestow motivation on him, not at all, you actually are not responsible for him.
You may be hurting more than you are helping him?
I don't know this, I don't know enough about your situation to make that judgement, just throwing it out there.
Codependency is not about helping others. I think your approach is commendable, wanting to help others. Your motivation and the result of that is what needs to be looked at to decide who you are helping, them or you.
If he has no consequences, what motivation does he have to stop? Not saying you are the person that should bestow motivation on him, not at all, you actually are not responsible for him.
You may be hurting more than you are helping him?
I don't know this, I don't know enough about your situation to make that judgement, just throwing it out there.
Codependency is not about helping others. I think your approach is commendable, wanting to help others. Your motivation and the result of that is what needs to be looked at to decide who you are helping, them or you.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Western US
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Originally Posted by CakeLady4000
Yup...it’s a heavy load of guilt that I either carry or throw money at to assuage. I think I was born this way. Human suffering has been a preoccupation of mine since I was a kid. I wanted to be a nun and work for Mother Theresa when I grew up. That makes me laugh now. I’m not even Catholic. I spent years in therapy trying to change it. The best I’ve managed to do is manage it and try to detach and avoid situations. Rationally I know that suffering is part of the human condition and inescapable, but it hurts my heart....it greatly hurts my heart. Yup, I’m a classic codependent. And one who is obviously backsliding at the moment.
Through lots of trial and error, I have come to think that myself and other do-gooders often do more harm than good when we step in. I absolutely still try to do good but I am a lot more skeptical of the value of what I'm doing when I try to help. Also I put a lot more value on doing things like meditation and yoga as at least there my good intentions are not laying down asphalt to the hot place for someone.
I actually worked at a homeless shelter for elderly in Puerto Rico. Most there were mentally ill or had been addicts who forgot the alcohol as they aged. My boss was the biggest bleeding heart I ever met; however she put the younger folks who were still using right back on the street.
I can see so many times how I can do good by just staying the heck out of situations. Also some of the drinkers want to live that way. They don't want to quit even if it means they will become homeless. I struggle with that but really try to respect others right to live however they want.
I don't mean to sound flippant here. Watching someone destroy themselves like your XABF is beyond heart breaking . . . even if you are miles away.
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The problem is all of ours....and none of ours.
I'm really so sorry about your XABF, and if he receives medical care and meals, at least he is on the radar of social services in your area. I hope that some solution will arise for his sake. The Salvation Army does wonderful work.
I do what I can to fight homelessness and hunger in my city through donations and volunteering as I can through organizations that help with this fight. I, alone, cannot offer up my home (I live alone) to random homeless people in order to keep any one homeless person off the streets. However, organizations have trained workers and the infrastructure in place to begin to make a dent in the problem--so that is where I place my energy and resources.
I'm really so sorry about your XABF, and if he receives medical care and meals, at least he is on the radar of social services in your area. I hope that some solution will arise for his sake. The Salvation Army does wonderful work.
I do what I can to fight homelessness and hunger in my city through donations and volunteering as I can through organizations that help with this fight. I, alone, cannot offer up my home (I live alone) to random homeless people in order to keep any one homeless person off the streets. However, organizations have trained workers and the infrastructure in place to begin to make a dent in the problem--so that is where I place my energy and resources.
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