Dealing with alcoholic ex wife and in laws
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I would recommend the family not be the supervisors if they act that way. You are doing the right steps, good for you. Protect your children. Block them from contact and let them know if they want it to be that way you won't be speaking to them. Constructive conversation about children only, if they cannot do that, they are out. Just my two cents.
So sorry for what brings you here, but glad you are here.
So sorry for what brings you here, but glad you are here.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 17
Quick update:
Tricky situation now. The woman who comes over to clean the house said she saw AW at the supermarket one Sunday afternoon (when she was still in care of the girls). 1st alarm bell is AW was alone. Her mum is there to supervise her, not the children, but was home with the girls (me eldest confirmed this).
My friend said she approached AW to say hello, but quickly changed her mind as she was "obviously on something". Her hands were trembling too much for her to pick up the cake she had gone to buy, and was visibly angry that she couldn't control her body. My friend has offered to put this in writing.
Torn now as I had literally just had an email from my solicitor telling me to try my hardest not to cut off wife's contact completely as the court would frown on a mother being totally deprived of contact with her children, and it honestly would break my heart as well.
However, for all her faults my MIL is the last person I trusted to supervise and then I get news like this, showing even her supervision is inadequate.
Solicitors have also agreed that the new BF should be denied any access to the children.
Been to my 3rd Al Anon meeting and really struggling to see the point. Need some advice from others further along if possible.
it's not just the religious/spiritual aspect that makes me uncomfortable (though it does), it's that during my 2nd meeting I was asking/being told something helpful by another member, when yet another member rudely raised her hands to both of us and said, "sorry this sounds like a conversation". She then turned to me and explained that in Al Anon there is no advice/no conversations
Well, what is the point then? So I can vent? I can do that with my friends/family, I was told to go to Al Anon as they've specifically there to help relatives of alcoholics. If they can't give advice then what are they there for? Sorry but I didn't even speak in my last meeting as I honestly felt worse since starting there. I will continue to do at least 6 meetings as recommended but not sure past that...
Tricky situation now. The woman who comes over to clean the house said she saw AW at the supermarket one Sunday afternoon (when she was still in care of the girls). 1st alarm bell is AW was alone. Her mum is there to supervise her, not the children, but was home with the girls (me eldest confirmed this).
My friend said she approached AW to say hello, but quickly changed her mind as she was "obviously on something". Her hands were trembling too much for her to pick up the cake she had gone to buy, and was visibly angry that she couldn't control her body. My friend has offered to put this in writing.
Torn now as I had literally just had an email from my solicitor telling me to try my hardest not to cut off wife's contact completely as the court would frown on a mother being totally deprived of contact with her children, and it honestly would break my heart as well.
However, for all her faults my MIL is the last person I trusted to supervise and then I get news like this, showing even her supervision is inadequate.
Solicitors have also agreed that the new BF should be denied any access to the children.
Been to my 3rd Al Anon meeting and really struggling to see the point. Need some advice from others further along if possible.
it's not just the religious/spiritual aspect that makes me uncomfortable (though it does), it's that during my 2nd meeting I was asking/being told something helpful by another member, when yet another member rudely raised her hands to both of us and said, "sorry this sounds like a conversation". She then turned to me and explained that in Al Anon there is no advice/no conversations
Well, what is the point then? So I can vent? I can do that with my friends/family, I was told to go to Al Anon as they've specifically there to help relatives of alcoholics. If they can't give advice then what are they there for? Sorry but I didn't even speak in my last meeting as I honestly felt worse since starting there. I will continue to do at least 6 meetings as recommended but not sure past that...
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,629
I'm absolutely not an Al Anon expert but my understanding of meetings is that sharing is something that happens after the meeting.
I can see how you would think of that as counter intuitive but it's not like other meetings where there is cross-sharing etc, it's a standard format.
Afterwards there is usually a list of people's phone numbers that you can call to talk to or if you stick around afterward there might be discussion or someone might approach you with their number, or feel free to ask someone about it.
"It is your choice to speak or not during the meetings. Newcomers are welcomed to meetings, usually provided with literature and a local meeting list, and invited to listen and learn. Some meetings offer beginners’ meetings, specifically for newcomers. Members are available to answer questions before or after the meetings".
https://al-anon.org/newcomers/faq/
I can see how you would think of that as counter intuitive but it's not like other meetings where there is cross-sharing etc, it's a standard format.
Afterwards there is usually a list of people's phone numbers that you can call to talk to or if you stick around afterward there might be discussion or someone might approach you with their number, or feel free to ask someone about it.
"It is your choice to speak or not during the meetings. Newcomers are welcomed to meetings, usually provided with literature and a local meeting list, and invited to listen and learn. Some meetings offer beginners’ meetings, specifically for newcomers. Members are available to answer questions before or after the meetings".
https://al-anon.org/newcomers/faq/
Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Southern US
Posts: 510
chmalcom1, in the absence of a convenient alanon meeting near me (until recently), I would use this app and listen to speakers and stories: https://audiojoy.com/alanon-audio-co...vices-app.html
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,629
Originally Posted by chmalcolm1 
Thanks it might just be that particular meeting as there's no talking before/after everyone gets there at the last minute and heads straight off after
Each meeting has a different tone probably. What you experienced is the polar opposite of what I did.
When I entered the meeting a very nice woman kind of took me under her wing, told me briefly what to expect and not to worry about the religious part of the meeting if that wasn't my thing.
I was told to just pass if I didn't want to do the reading that was passed around and share or not if I didn't feel like it.
There was a list on the table of people's numbers and that same woman gave me her number and told me to call her anytime.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
chmalcolm1--
AlAnon is made up of people so, like any group, you might click with one group and not another. However there is a good reason for no conversation-type sharing or no "cross'talk."
The way AlAnon works (or is supposed to work, but again it's just a group of people doing their best!) is for members to share their own experiences.
The last thing you'd want is a room of codependents giving advice to one another on what they think another person should do!! OMG. That's the habit members are trying to break free of.
When people simply share their experiences members are free to "take what they can use and leave the rest."
Members are always free to chat after the meeting, ask each other specific questions, or exchange phone numbers etc. And if you begin to work the steps with a sponsor your experience will become very specific to YOU, which is the main goal of AlAnon, get the focus on yourself.
I had to try at least 3 or 4 meetings before I found 2 that were a great fit for me. I'm lucky to live in an urban area with lots of options, I know it's completely different for people in suburban or country areas.
Just my take on it - your mileage may vary.
Peace,
B
AlAnon is made up of people so, like any group, you might click with one group and not another. However there is a good reason for no conversation-type sharing or no "cross'talk."
The way AlAnon works (or is supposed to work, but again it's just a group of people doing their best!) is for members to share their own experiences.
The last thing you'd want is a room of codependents giving advice to one another on what they think another person should do!! OMG. That's the habit members are trying to break free of.
When people simply share their experiences members are free to "take what they can use and leave the rest."
Members are always free to chat after the meeting, ask each other specific questions, or exchange phone numbers etc. And if you begin to work the steps with a sponsor your experience will become very specific to YOU, which is the main goal of AlAnon, get the focus on yourself.
I had to try at least 3 or 4 meetings before I found 2 that were a great fit for me. I'm lucky to live in an urban area with lots of options, I know it's completely different for people in suburban or country areas.
Just my take on it - your mileage may vary.
Peace,
B
Member
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 70
One overall comment - the level of emotion and drama here is quite high - and I'd really try to defuse things as much as possible while protecting your children where you can. Its really hard on you - the sane person - to keep being sucked into the alcoholic drama vortex. With that in mind ... a few thoughts below:
- Why are you talking to the in-laws at all? Don't. Tell them all communications about the children have to come from your ex-wife, as that's her job as a parent. Then, block them from all methods of contacting you. However, they are trying and trying (and succeeding) at pulling you into their drama. Just stop playing. You don't need it.
- Who is in charge of providing supervision per the social services order? And, what is the definition of an appropriate supervisor? If you can afford it, I would pay for a neutral third-party supervisor (no one from family) so that 1) proper supervision is given and 2) there's no bias charges (ie. 'he just doesn't like my mother - but she's really just great at supervising the kids!). The goal here should be to ensure your kids are protected and that you have a third party who can serve as a witness for why you should retain custody (assuming your ex-wife is incapable of cleaning herself up).
- I would recommend an addiction therapist to help you individually in addition to al-anon and/or some other kind of group therapy. Also, my therapist recommended Al-Anon and said that different Al-Anon groups have different personalities - you may have to go to a few to find one that works for your personality.
- Stop engaging with your ex-wife on anything other than the children. Request all asks to see the children be done in writing via email or text, unless its a last-minute thing. Then - if you must talk to her in person - do not allow the conversation to turn to other topics and, if she tries (and she will), practice saying things like "I'm sorry you feel that way. I've got to go to an appointment." Don't ask her or answer any personal questions, including "how was your day?" "are you in therapy?" Do NOT at all discuss anything involving the violence from her to you or you to her - its entirely inappropriate to be discussing such things amongst yourselves.
- One last thing - as you work to pull yourself out of the drama vortex ... you are changing family patterns that have been in place for a long, long time. Expect there to be increasing attempts to further pull you into the drama ... learn to recognize them for what they are ... and ignore them.
- Why are you talking to the in-laws at all? Don't. Tell them all communications about the children have to come from your ex-wife, as that's her job as a parent. Then, block them from all methods of contacting you. However, they are trying and trying (and succeeding) at pulling you into their drama. Just stop playing. You don't need it.
- Who is in charge of providing supervision per the social services order? And, what is the definition of an appropriate supervisor? If you can afford it, I would pay for a neutral third-party supervisor (no one from family) so that 1) proper supervision is given and 2) there's no bias charges (ie. 'he just doesn't like my mother - but she's really just great at supervising the kids!). The goal here should be to ensure your kids are protected and that you have a third party who can serve as a witness for why you should retain custody (assuming your ex-wife is incapable of cleaning herself up).
- I would recommend an addiction therapist to help you individually in addition to al-anon and/or some other kind of group therapy. Also, my therapist recommended Al-Anon and said that different Al-Anon groups have different personalities - you may have to go to a few to find one that works for your personality.
- Stop engaging with your ex-wife on anything other than the children. Request all asks to see the children be done in writing via email or text, unless its a last-minute thing. Then - if you must talk to her in person - do not allow the conversation to turn to other topics and, if she tries (and she will), practice saying things like "I'm sorry you feel that way. I've got to go to an appointment." Don't ask her or answer any personal questions, including "how was your day?" "are you in therapy?" Do NOT at all discuss anything involving the violence from her to you or you to her - its entirely inappropriate to be discussing such things amongst yourselves.
- One last thing - as you work to pull yourself out of the drama vortex ... you are changing family patterns that have been in place for a long, long time. Expect there to be increasing attempts to further pull you into the drama ... learn to recognize them for what they are ... and ignore them.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 17
Hi sorry for another late reply
Went to the next Al anon meeting, much better this time. The person who interrupted wasn't there this time and things flowed much better, and felt better speaking so will definitely continue. Sorry for my angry tone last post.
Wheelsup just to clarify because of AW's restraining order against me all our child contact has to be done through a 3rd party, currently MIL.
interesting interaction with the in laws this week.
First MIL messaged to say AW wanted clarification on my concerns about her new boyfriend, plus my demand for her to be supervised in writing from my solicitor, "as promised". I pointed out to MIL that I had not promised anything, and that my solicitors had refused to write to her as they had already explained the situation. I also pointed out I have letters from my solicitor and the police supporting me in keeping the boyfriend away from the children, and I would be submitting these in court.
MIL then forwarded a message from AW directly to me. Unsurprisingly her 1st contact with me since February had nothing to with us/our children, but about how wonderful the BF is and there was no need for me to be jealous, and that I was making it impossible for her to move on.
Used to her insanity now and it doesn't upset me like it used to. I simply told MIL I wouldn't discuss it any further.
the need for supervision though became apparent when she asked to take our middle daughter to her 1st day of school. I agreed but because she was unsupervised I would follow from a distance in case she acted bizarrely.
Which she did.
1 of the other mothers approached me later and said that despite my daughters jumping and talking at her with excitement, she wasn't interested, too busy texting, which she couldn't do as once again her hands were trembling too much and she was
agitated again at her own inability to control herself. Luckily the girls didn't seem to notice.
like I said I'm fairly calm these days in the face of her and her family's behaviour, and communication outside of her text, is being kept to a minimum on both sides.
I am however incredibly anxious about family court, and AW putting on some sort of act, getting custody or even unsupervised access, which I honestly believe would be dangerous.
Has anyone her been through UK family court in this type of situation? Any advice on what will happen, how I can prepare would be appreciated (and cheaper than asking my solicitors who seem determined to get my internal organs at this point)
Thanks and sorry for yet another long story
Went to the next Al anon meeting, much better this time. The person who interrupted wasn't there this time and things flowed much better, and felt better speaking so will definitely continue. Sorry for my angry tone last post.
Wheelsup just to clarify because of AW's restraining order against me all our child contact has to be done through a 3rd party, currently MIL.
interesting interaction with the in laws this week.
First MIL messaged to say AW wanted clarification on my concerns about her new boyfriend, plus my demand for her to be supervised in writing from my solicitor, "as promised". I pointed out to MIL that I had not promised anything, and that my solicitors had refused to write to her as they had already explained the situation. I also pointed out I have letters from my solicitor and the police supporting me in keeping the boyfriend away from the children, and I would be submitting these in court.
MIL then forwarded a message from AW directly to me. Unsurprisingly her 1st contact with me since February had nothing to with us/our children, but about how wonderful the BF is and there was no need for me to be jealous, and that I was making it impossible for her to move on.
Used to her insanity now and it doesn't upset me like it used to. I simply told MIL I wouldn't discuss it any further.
the need for supervision though became apparent when she asked to take our middle daughter to her 1st day of school. I agreed but because she was unsupervised I would follow from a distance in case she acted bizarrely.
Which she did.
1 of the other mothers approached me later and said that despite my daughters jumping and talking at her with excitement, she wasn't interested, too busy texting, which she couldn't do as once again her hands were trembling too much and she was
agitated again at her own inability to control herself. Luckily the girls didn't seem to notice.
like I said I'm fairly calm these days in the face of her and her family's behaviour, and communication outside of her text, is being kept to a minimum on both sides.
I am however incredibly anxious about family court, and AW putting on some sort of act, getting custody or even unsupervised access, which I honestly believe would be dangerous.
Has anyone her been through UK family court in this type of situation? Any advice on what will happen, how I can prepare would be appreciated (and cheaper than asking my solicitors who seem determined to get my internal organs at this point)
Thanks and sorry for yet another long story
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 17
Hi sorry for posting again so quick but solicitors have asked me to
They're trying to gather evidence for an emergency contact order to keep the new BF away from the girls.
Does anyone know anythinanything"13th steppers", term for sex predators in AA?
We're working under the assumption that she met him in AA, and if she did what criteria would you use to assess whether he took advantage of her.
it doesn't need to be anything concrete, but if we can present evidence that he took advantage of his "position" (further along in the program) then it should be grounds for the order.
does anyone here know much or had much experience with 13 stepping?
They're trying to gather evidence for an emergency contact order to keep the new BF away from the girls.
Does anyone know anythinanything"13th steppers", term for sex predators in AA?
We're working under the assumption that she met him in AA, and if she did what criteria would you use to assess whether he took advantage of her.
it doesn't need to be anything concrete, but if we can present evidence that he took advantage of his "position" (further along in the program) then it should be grounds for the order.
does anyone here know much or had much experience with 13 stepping?
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,629
You might want to ask this in the Alcoholism forum as well:
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/alcoholism/
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/alcoholism/
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,122
Your AW may have the shakes from severe withdrawals which means she MAY not be using currently. It’s also extremely dangerous she be left alone with the children. Is it possible to bring up these observations to the court? I’m not sure what country you are in but here in the US a social worker should be involved.
Even if your AW was super kind and loving and not at all violent, her withdrawals are incredibly dangerous. She may have a seizure and the children cannot be subjected to that even under supervision.
Im wondering if the courts can order her to mandatory medical detox if she wants any custody at all?
And they probably do notice she shakes but are so use to it they think it’s normal.
Even if your AW was super kind and loving and not at all violent, her withdrawals are incredibly dangerous. She may have a seizure and the children cannot be subjected to that even under supervision.
Im wondering if the courts can order her to mandatory medical detox if she wants any custody at all?
And they probably do notice she shakes but are so use to it they think it’s normal.
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