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They’re convinced Am I in another stage of denial? We are moving forward with divorce. It’s heart breaking. I haven’t really had time or space to grieve yet. I’m guessing I will after he leaves. We’ve reached a decent settlement but are still a little shaky on custod/visitation. He broke out in a flop sweat today at court. His hands were shaking. My lawyer said she’d bet money on him being hungover. My friend an A in recovery is 100% convinced he’s still drinking. I’m not. If he is he is SO GOOD at hiding it. He sounds so sober. He seems so sober. Friend thinks he’s using alcohol to just maintain normalcy at this point. STBX really balked at having language in the parenting agreement that states he will be sober when kiddo is in his care. He said he “didn’t want to be painted with a brush.” He was worried about it being on his permanent record. I got him to agree to write that we will both abstain from mind altering substances when kid is with us. We will both be able to call and communicate with each other and kid during overnights. My concern is that I am consigning my son to witnessing and being parented by a drunk person. And that my son will grow up with the same warped view of people that I did. I don’t know how to protect him from that without completely going full bore for full custody and having a terrible, awful divorce and chaos for months and months. |
I don't think it's denial, I think you don't know, that's all. How long has he been sober, according to him? |
Since the beginning of June he says. |
He broke out in a flop sweat today at court. His hands were shaking. My lawyer said she’d bet money on him being hungover. My friend an A in recovery is 100% convinced he’s still drinking. I’m not. if i read this right ya say youre not convinced hes drinking? those symptoms could have been a reaction to what was goin on and reality setting in. however if he has been sober and plans on staying sober it doesnt seem he would have balked at having language in the parenting agreement that states he will be sober when kiddo is in his care. if above is how im thinkin- youre not convinced hes drinkin, then why [I]My concern is that I am consigning my son to witnessing and being parented by a drunk person. And that my son will grow up with the same warped view of people that I did. I don’t know how to protect him from that without completely going full bore for full custody and having a terrible, awful divorce and chaos for months and months. withdrawl symptons can kick in at any time,too. |
Originally Posted by tomsteve
(Post 7244372)
He broke out in a flop sweat today at court. His hands were shaking. My lawyer said she’d bet money on him being hungover. My friend an A in recovery is 100% convinced he’s still drinking. I’m not. if i read this right ya say youre not convinced hes drinking? those symptoms could have been a reaction to what was goin on and reality setting in. however if he has been sober and plans on staying sober it doesnt seem he would have balked at having language in the parenting agreement that states he will be sober when kiddo is in his care. if above is how im thinkin- youre not convinced hes drinkin, then why withdrawl symptons can kick in at any time,too. Tomsteve- yes to both. I’m not convinced he’s drinking right now. BUT- given prior experiences I’m pretty damn sure he’s going to fall off his white knuckle wagon. I myself have quit drinking six years ago and haven’t picked up again. I am, however, in alanon, have a therapist and have a community. None of which he has. I’m worried that he will drink again. I’m pretty damn sure he’s still smoking pot. He did admit, earlier, that he did have a problem with alcohol but has done nothing to help himself in ways that I can see. He’s still isolated, not working, no friends, no working out or anything physical. He’s so stuck and it’s really hard to watch. We have done this dance before and I don’t want to do it again. |
What is your custody agreement? If you do find you have any suspicion that he is drinking later on, you can always pursue the full custody agreement or have a soberlink clause put in. For now, what can you do, you have zero proof really. I totally understand your worry, don't get me wrong, but what can you do with no proof? Since he is just white knuckling it, all you can do is be vigilant in observing him during drop off and pick up. How old is your child? Are there family members on his side that he has any communication with at all that you trust? |
Trail mix- thank you. We are still working on our custody agreement. It seems to be shaking out as this: the kid stays with me during the week. His school is walking distance and we both want him to have as much stability as possible. It seems as though the kiddo will go to x’s on Friday and Saturday nights and come back on Sunday. We haven’t yet worked out summers and spring breaks. I teach so I have more flexibility in the summer but do travel out of town occasionally. We both want to be flexible and open but of course want to protect the kid. He’s nine. The kid has a phone and is learning to keep in touch with me. We will also have a family calendar and can keep track of appointments and doctors and after school activities and whatnot. x doesn’t have any family members in town. And they’re all mad at me anyway. They don’t see his drinking as a concern. I’m not terribly surprised though. They love him and want to protect him. |
Well at least he is old enough to have a phone and use it, that right there is so important. I'm guessing he knows about drinking and that he needs to not be around people who are drinking? If not, that is going to have to be worked in to a conversation. He has to know so he can call you to come and pick him up if need be. It sounds like you have done as much as you can at this point don't you think? Until he steps out of line, what more can you do. |
I agreed to a 2/5 split when I had no evidence that XAH was drinking. Once he started again and/or made it obvious by his conduct, I took him to court and he now has a soberlink requirement, no overnights for now and one if he can test 100% sober for six months. it doesn’t always work out that way but it’s hard if you have no way to show he’s a threat to have them monitored. I had language in the settlement that I could have him tested if I had a reasonable belief he was using, which was pretty toothless but helped me show the court it was a pattern when I needed to. But it’s BS to claim he doesn’t want it on his “record”. Family law details aren’t public. I’d push back on that because mutual language won’t help you tell the story to the judge later if you have to. Good news is your kid is old enough to see if things aren’t ok and tell you about it so you can act. disclaimer- I am not a family law attorney. |
Thanks all. I really appreciate it. It’s been a pleasant weekend. X has found a new woman to talk to. As freaking weird (and kind of gross) as that sounds I am very peaceful with it. He’s taken his laser focus of misery off of me and the kid and there’s a little more peace in the house. We are looking at financials this week and moving forward. Hopefully HOPEFULLY everyone can maintain a somewhat even keel as we sail towards separation. |
And friend and lawyer were RIGHT. I just checked his usual hiding spot and there it was, a big ol’ bottle of vodka. Empty. That wasn’t there three weeks ago. I’ve emailed my lawyer to find out what options I have without hopefully losing everything I have. Ugh. This sucks giant balls. |
I'm sorry. It takes what it takes to break through our own denial. This disease of alcoholism hits the family in many ways, including deep denial. Recovery by whatever means it takes, for each of us. :grouphug: |
Right, but what kind of real life decisions do I make here? Am I risking the life of my kiddo if I let him drive in the car? Do I insist on all child care and raise suspicion and make my home life MORE difficult and dysfunctional? Which choice do I make? Wtf do I do? Arrrfhhfhfhghhg! |
Protect the minor child, not the feelings or "needs" of the adult alcoholic. Court hassles and dealing with angry defiant exAH, and losing money, and having to figure out ALL the childcare etc., is aggravating yes, but it is nothing compared to the safety of your child. That you will never regret. Peace, B. |
Whatever protects child and self. One step at a time. One day at a time. Al-Anon. Lawyers. Etc. What has been helping so far? |
EDIT! Sorry- what’s been helping so far has been NOT broaching the subject of his drinking and basically agreeing to all of his terms. They had seemed reasonable. I sent him my financials today and we were supposed to go over how much I pay him out to leave tomorrow. He would leave when he gets his cash. And we would sign a legal document stating when he would leave. Until then I’m just sort of holding my breath. We had our initial status conference last Friday. We have a separation agreement and we’re working on the parenting plan. Tonight I found the vodka bottle in one of his hiding spots. He’s still living in the house. He agreed to leave when he gets the cash from me buying him out. I’ve left kiddo home with him alone many times since he had said he’s quit drinking. Now I know he’s still drinking. |
Now that you know differently, you can do things differently. |
I haven't been through a child custody battle with an alcoholic (or anyone) so I'm just going to give you my opinion here. You are hoping to sit, quietly, on the fence until he gets his money and you can get him out of there. There is no reason, based on what you have said, that you can't still do that. I get that you don't want to rock the boat. First off, take a deep breath, I think you will find that visitation for an alcoholic isn't as pressing as it seems once they are off on their own. Right now it is at least a bargaining tool for him (I don't know what he's like so I'm guessing). If he is in fact an engaged Father (as much as an alcoholic can be), then he may truly care. Regardless, once he is free to drink at will, visitation will not seem that attractive probably (sadly). But all of this can wait a few days correct? Until you get those financial papers signed, as soon as possible. In the meantime, no, he shouldn't be driving your child anywhere, is there any way you can manage that? He should not be with your Son unsupervised. If he is looking after him at home (is this avoidable?), I would call every hour and speak to your Son. But how do you keep him out of the car. You may well have to have a talk with your stbxAH about it, I personally can't think of any other way, can you? Short of sending your Son away for a week to relatives for a holiday or something, until the financials are done - I don't know what options you might have? Once the financial agreement is signed and sealed, well before even, you can perhaps speak to your lawyer and get their legal opinion and help, that is really the only way to proceed. Perhaps soberlink would be a viable option. |
Yes well, I spoke with my lawyer and we are going forward with mediation and I still don’t have any hard evidence of his drinking. It’s got to be him breaking the law in some way. I can still put language in the separation agreement that states we will be sober when the kid is in our care. He would not agree to a UA, he would not agree to a breathalyzer. I’m stuck. It Sucks and the only thing I can do is watch and wait for something to go wrong and educate my poor kid. I feel so helpless. |
He would not agree to a UA, he would not agree to a breathalyzer. I’m stuck. you are not stuck. if he refuses to prove he is sober - which shouldn't be a problem if one IS sober - in order to have time with his CHILD, then play hardball. full custody, no visitation. unless he agrees to soberlink or some other such sober-proving device. don't WAIT until something bad happens to your child. be proactive. |
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