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Join Date: Apr 2018
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I can still put language in the separation agreement that states we will be sober when the kid is in our care.
he would not agree to a breathalyzer.
Something has to be agreed to in order to prove sobriety for this part of the agreement to be verified. It's not personal.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Englewood
Posts: 76
What he’s stated is that I can call any time and if I suspect that he’s loaded, I call the police and we all show up at the door and the cops can give him a breathalyzer. And then I can take my kid.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,629
Well isn't that dramatic.
He said that because he knows you won't (because who would!) unless he was totally drunk.
If he has 3-4 beers how on earth could you tell on the phone and what are you going to do, call the police and say I think my ex-husband had a few beers, can you go breathalyze him? Are you going to call him at 11 PM? If you do and he doesn't answer the phone is he sleeping or drinking.
What do you think of his remark?
He said that because he knows you won't (because who would!) unless he was totally drunk.
If he has 3-4 beers how on earth could you tell on the phone and what are you going to do, call the police and say I think my ex-husband had a few beers, can you go breathalyze him? Are you going to call him at 11 PM? If you do and he doesn't answer the phone is he sleeping or drinking.
What do you think of his remark?
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
What he’s stated is that I can call any time and if I suspect that he’s loaded, I call the police and we all show up at the door and the cops can give him a breathalyzer. And then I can take my kid.
take a few moments and imagine being THE CHILD in all of this.
imagine being a child and spending "time" with your father, who is drinking, and mom calls, and then the police come banging on the door and storm in.
is THAT what you want for your child? this isn't about what the AH wants.....this is, or should be, about what is the very best for the child. you adults can take care of yourselves - the child has NO choice in whatever the parents decide to do..........you HAVE to be that child's advocate.
take a few moments and imagine being THE CHILD in all of this.
imagine being a child and spending "time" with your father, who is drinking, and mom calls, and then the police come banging on the door and storm in.
is THAT what you want for your child? this isn't about what the AH wants.....this is, or should be, about what is the very best for the child. you adults can take care of yourselves - the child has NO choice in whatever the parents decide to do..........you HAVE to be that child's advocate.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Englewood
Posts: 76
I think really that’s the best I’m going to get. I don’t think I’ll be successful if I push for full custody or breathalyzer or UAs. I think I’ll spend a **** ton of money and won’t achieve anything. He only has that one safety call since then and no arrests or duis or anything. He’s very clever and controlled. And I can’t tell when he’s drinking.
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Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 223
Ugh. That sucks. I was in that position when I settled with my ex. People say “get full custody” but most places today you just won’t get full custody without serious current proof he’s dangerous. Even then it is a crap shoot.
I was lucky (lucky?) my ex couldn’t even pretend to be sober. And he was also someone I never could tell whether he was drunk but as he went down the tubes he lost the magic power to pretend to be normal. Also I think when you are around less you may notice more... So be vigilant, work with your kid, get them a cell phone if they are at least 5 so they can call you if they need help or dad gets “weird” and I hope you can get the ammo you need and no one gets hurt in the process. Sorry you are in this spot.
I was lucky (lucky?) my ex couldn’t even pretend to be sober. And he was also someone I never could tell whether he was drunk but as he went down the tubes he lost the magic power to pretend to be normal. Also I think when you are around less you may notice more... So be vigilant, work with your kid, get them a cell phone if they are at least 5 so they can call you if they need help or dad gets “weird” and I hope you can get the ammo you need and no one gets hurt in the process. Sorry you are in this spot.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
He said the only people who can prove would be the cops.
this is what HE said.
it is not fact.
it is not true.
there are multiple scientifically tested methods to check level of soberness or not.
if there is even a CHANCE that the person watching over your precious child was consuming alcohol, would you allow it? the babysitter? your niece? brother? you have someone holding a SIGN saying "irresponsible drinker, incapable of making anything or anyone else a priority over drinking" would you hire them to watch your kid?
i know i sound harsh, but dangit this has to stop being about what King Baby AH wants...............
this is what HE said.
it is not fact.
it is not true.
there are multiple scientifically tested methods to check level of soberness or not.
if there is even a CHANCE that the person watching over your precious child was consuming alcohol, would you allow it? the babysitter? your niece? brother? you have someone holding a SIGN saying "irresponsible drinker, incapable of making anything or anyone else a priority over drinking" would you hire them to watch your kid?
i know i sound harsh, but dangit this has to stop being about what King Baby AH wants...............
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Englewood
Posts: 76
Yes Anvilhead, I know there are ways to test sobriety. I can’t force X to agree to them. He will either agree or not. Right now he’s not agreeing. He absolutely refuses to do something like that and nothing *I* say will make him change his mind.
He’s also living in my house and has to sign a quit claim in order for me to take possession. And he has not (yet) demonstrated any sort of behavior considered dangerous or negligent by the law. Unless my lawyer comes up with an idea to force him to comply I see no way of doing it.
Of course I would never hire or immediately fire an employee who was demonstrating that amount of irresponsibility- but he’s my x husband and my kids father and he has rights.
He’s also living in my house and has to sign a quit claim in order for me to take possession. And he has not (yet) demonstrated any sort of behavior considered dangerous or negligent by the law. Unless my lawyer comes up with an idea to force him to comply I see no way of doing it.
Of course I would never hire or immediately fire an employee who was demonstrating that amount of irresponsibility- but he’s my x husband and my kids father and he has rights.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,424
I mean you both take breathalyzer tests on exchange of kid. If you are willing to do it too, it takes away his stigma BS argument.
I wouldn't give up just because he doesn't like it. I grew up with a drunk parent and it is dangerous, scary, and unstable.
I wouldn't give up just because he doesn't like it. I grew up with a drunk parent and it is dangerous, scary, and unstable.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
If you have an agreement and nothing to verify or steps in place for what happens next, it really means nothing. Said from someone who has that and it means...nothing really. It set my children up to police their own father. Stressful and awful. Don't do it.
Also think about your child in the future. Being with dad on every weekend may be hard on them and hard on you.
Just my two cents for what it's worth.
Also think about your child in the future. Being with dad on every weekend may be hard on them and hard on you.
Just my two cents for what it's worth.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Englewood
Posts: 76
Thank you all. This is good stuff to think about. Nothing has presented itself either in lawful solution or a resolution of my will. To me it’s a sign that I should sit chilly for a little bit. Thank you all.
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 674
I hope you will take a moment to realize the significance of finding that bottle. People always say, "more will be revealed". You were meant to find it, the universe or whatever power you believe in meant for you to find it so that you could re-group, and re-consider. You are doing just that, and I can see that you feel helpless, but you will figure out the best way to handle this information, and I hope that your attorney can think of something. So hard...so sorry you have to deal with this.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Englewood
Posts: 76
Well, I’ve thought about it and meditated and done some reading on it. It seems as though the courts, lawyers, mediators and arbitrators get highly suspicious when someone refuses a sobriety test. So, I've squinted past all of his huffing and puffing to see that he may be ordered by an authority higher than me to prove his sobriety.
I got some dates for a mediator and suggested them to x, and of course he didn’t agree to any dates- stating that he wasn’t going to submit to my bullying and roll over for me.
Its freaky weird that whenever he accuses me of something it’s generally what he’s doing himself. Master of projection.
I’ve also talked with my therapist. when I told her that ex was flying out to be with his “special lady friend” this weekend she said “he’s having an affair?” And I was like, well, *I* didn’t call it that, she said “yes, it’s an affair.” So, I don’t know how much behavior factors into divorce, custody or division of assets but it certainly is a bizarre pattern of behavior.
I’d love to hear any anecdotal story about something similar. Thanks again all.
I got some dates for a mediator and suggested them to x, and of course he didn’t agree to any dates- stating that he wasn’t going to submit to my bullying and roll over for me.
Its freaky weird that whenever he accuses me of something it’s generally what he’s doing himself. Master of projection.
I’ve also talked with my therapist. when I told her that ex was flying out to be with his “special lady friend” this weekend she said “he’s having an affair?” And I was like, well, *I* didn’t call it that, she said “yes, it’s an affair.” So, I don’t know how much behavior factors into divorce, custody or division of assets but it certainly is a bizarre pattern of behavior.
I’d love to hear any anecdotal story about something similar. Thanks again all.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
not really that bizarre - he's being an obstinate self entitled jerk. and is not willing to give you an inch.
this is where i think mediation might not be the best route. if we think of mediation as COMPROMISE, you need both sides to play and play fair. i also think that by YOU communicating all this legal stuff to HIM, he still thinks he can snow you, bully you, cow you.
he's not likely to agree to much of anything. which means that mediation is an uphill battle. can you communicate less? do you each have legal representation? let THEM duke it out. and prepare for the long haul.
curious why you won't call it an affair? i don't think he's going to see her paint samples for the living room..........
this is where i think mediation might not be the best route. if we think of mediation as COMPROMISE, you need both sides to play and play fair. i also think that by YOU communicating all this legal stuff to HIM, he still thinks he can snow you, bully you, cow you.
he's not likely to agree to much of anything. which means that mediation is an uphill battle. can you communicate less? do you each have legal representation? let THEM duke it out. and prepare for the long haul.
curious why you won't call it an affair? i don't think he's going to see her paint samples for the living room..........
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Thursdays.....Sorry, I don't have a similar story.....although my first husband, that I divorced, was/is a jerk with narcissistic tendencies....
My suggestion would be this----I would contact a lawyer who has a close relationship with your local domestic abuse organization....and, get a second opinion from them. They are more likely to have dealt, a lot, with this kind of horrible situation with a Krazy ex....and, those with out of control alcoholism and addictions...
It seems that your lawyer ought to have a better creative imagination.
It has been my impression that mediation works best with those people who have the capacity to co-operate.....? Your ex doesn't sound very co-operative.
I understand that it is recommended that one have their own lawyer to, at least, look over any agreements reached, in mediation.....to make sure you aren't getting screwed....
I am a zero source of legal advice....
but, there is something that I Do know...which I learned from direct experience...
for a narcissistic person or just a stone cold jerk...…
1. Never play the role of "nice guy" with them. It doesn't work withthem...they will knife you in the back, with no guilt...
And, while being a nice person with other people can get you some good strokes.....there will be no stars in your crown for being nice and reasonable with a narcissist.
2. Strong, iron clad boundaries is the only thing that they will respond to (if you are lucky)….
3. ***They thrive on getting a reaction out of you...it actually encourages them.
Never...never....let them see you sweat.....or cry.....
4. "If you offer your hand...they will take your arm"...…
Thursdays..if you don't have a thick rhino skin...I suggest you start g r owing one...lol...
My suggestion would be this----I would contact a lawyer who has a close relationship with your local domestic abuse organization....and, get a second opinion from them. They are more likely to have dealt, a lot, with this kind of horrible situation with a Krazy ex....and, those with out of control alcoholism and addictions...
It seems that your lawyer ought to have a better creative imagination.
It has been my impression that mediation works best with those people who have the capacity to co-operate.....? Your ex doesn't sound very co-operative.
I understand that it is recommended that one have their own lawyer to, at least, look over any agreements reached, in mediation.....to make sure you aren't getting screwed....
I am a zero source of legal advice....
but, there is something that I Do know...which I learned from direct experience...
for a narcissistic person or just a stone cold jerk...…
1. Never play the role of "nice guy" with them. It doesn't work withthem...they will knife you in the back, with no guilt...
And, while being a nice person with other people can get you some good strokes.....there will be no stars in your crown for being nice and reasonable with a narcissist.
2. Strong, iron clad boundaries is the only thing that they will respond to (if you are lucky)….
3. ***They thrive on getting a reaction out of you...it actually encourages them.
Never...never....let them see you sweat.....or cry.....
4. "If you offer your hand...they will take your arm"...…
Thursdays..if you don't have a thick rhino skin...I suggest you start g r owing one...lol...
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Englewood
Posts: 76
Originally Posted by AnvilheadII 
not really that bizarre - he's being an obstinate self entitled jerk. and is not willing to give you an inch.
this is where i think mediation might not be the best route. if we think of mediation as COMPROMISE, you need both sides to play and play fair. i also think that by YOU communicating all this legal stuff to HIM, he still thinks he can snow you, bully you, cow you.
he's not likely to agree to much of anything. which means that mediation is an uphill battle. can you communicate less? do you each have legal representation? let THEM duke it out. and prepare for the long haul.
curious why you won't call it an affair? i don't think he's going to see her paint samples for the living room..........
this is where i think mediation might not be the best route. if we think of mediation as COMPROMISE, you need both sides to play and play fair. i also think that by YOU communicating all this legal stuff to HIM, he still thinks he can snow you, bully you, cow you.
he's not likely to agree to much of anything. which means that mediation is an uphill battle. can you communicate less? do you each have legal representation? let THEM duke it out. and prepare for the long haul.
curious why you won't call it an affair? i don't think he's going to see her paint samples for the living room..........
I wish he would stay there. It would make things a lot easier.
So I don’t know about the process at all. Can we skip mediation and go right to arbitration? Is that possible? Is it something I should ask my lawyer? Is there any way that a skilled mediator could help him agree to do sobriety test? Would mediation be in any way helpful to me? I’m not sure. Would the fact that I tried mediation and he did not help me at all?
God when I texted him the dates today he was all “ok, so it’ll be straight down the line, we will have to sell the house!” Sad face.
and I didn’t budge- I said “nope, I’m not selling the house, I’ll buy you out, but I’m not selling it.”
And i I got a little smarter this time- I didn’t tell him that I won’t budge on sobriety tests I just told him there were some things I didn’t want to negotiate on.
his lawyer has told him how he’s entitled to more money and less debt. But I don’t think he knows that he is not the only one who decides how things are split and that if it comes to it, an arbitrator will do that not him, so he thinks that if we go mediation that he will “get more” and I will “suffer.” And he “didn’t want to do that to me” but now “he must.”
What sucks so much is that he is still in my space and still in my face and still not working.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,629
Where I live there is a difference when filing an uncontested divorce vs a divorce that has involved adultery.
An uncontested divorce requires a year of separation before filing. Where there is proven adultery, it can be filed immediately.
I never had this occur but I read about it when filing my own divorce.
Now, you either have to prove it (ie: you or someone else had to actually see the act) or the person has to sign an affidavit admitting it.
Anyway, you may or may not have the same kind of law in your area but I would have expected your lawyer to mention that?
I actually find her calling it an "affair" a bit odd. Legally it's adultery - an affair tends to be more of an emotional / relationship description. Also, if there is no law with regard to adultery in your state (whether that be as described above or it has no affect on monetary awards), who cares! You don't, so what does it matter.
An uncontested divorce requires a year of separation before filing. Where there is proven adultery, it can be filed immediately.
I never had this occur but I read about it when filing my own divorce.
Now, you either have to prove it (ie: you or someone else had to actually see the act) or the person has to sign an affidavit admitting it.
Anyway, you may or may not have the same kind of law in your area but I would have expected your lawyer to mention that?
I actually find her calling it an "affair" a bit odd. Legally it's adultery - an affair tends to be more of an emotional / relationship description. Also, if there is no law with regard to adultery in your state (whether that be as described above or it has no affect on monetary awards), who cares! You don't, so what does it matter.
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