Should I reach out?
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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wll…...so many who are on this forum have been exactly in your shoes....with their hearts and homes torn asunder.....me, also, although mine was from a family member.....
We understand how it feels....don't let the term "co-dependent" throw you---yes...I know, it has a very "clinical" sound....I suggest that you think of it as being enmeshed into the family disease of alcoholism.....Alcoholism is called "a family disease"....because, every single person in the family takes a "hit" from it.....as well as the alcoholic, themselves.
I don't think anyone was trying to be personally judgemental of you....just trying to enlighten you as to the reality of this disease.....and, the reality of it really is hard!
It is so easy to lose one's self by trying to control the progression of this terrible disease....by pouring every ounce of energy and concern onto the alcoholic.....Very common.
We understand how it feels....don't let the term "co-dependent" throw you---yes...I know, it has a very "clinical" sound....I suggest that you think of it as being enmeshed into the family disease of alcoholism.....Alcoholism is called "a family disease"....because, every single person in the family takes a "hit" from it.....as well as the alcoholic, themselves.
I don't think anyone was trying to be personally judgemental of you....just trying to enlighten you as to the reality of this disease.....and, the reality of it really is hard!
It is so easy to lose one's self by trying to control the progression of this terrible disease....by pouring every ounce of energy and concern onto the alcoholic.....Very common.
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Northwest
Posts: 4,215
IMHO, asking that question was completely understandable. Expecting any kind of answer you could believe or trust...maybe not so much?
What happens when you stop listening to her words and start focusing on her actions?
Have her actions said she wants to recommit herself to you and fully commit to recovery? I’m not talking about how she sweet talks you into bed every time you pull away a bit. That’s a tactic.
Even if she did say she loves you...it’s still just a word. Words without deeds aren’t worth staking your daughter’s and your wellbeing on.
I hope you can get some rest.
What happens when you stop listening to her words and start focusing on her actions?
Have her actions said she wants to recommit herself to you and fully commit to recovery? I’m not talking about how she sweet talks you into bed every time you pull away a bit. That’s a tactic.
Even if she did say she loves you...it’s still just a word. Words without deeds aren’t worth staking your daughter’s and your wellbeing on.
I hope you can get some rest.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 276
Thank you.
Rest is not forthcoming yet...
You are BANG ON about actions as opposed to words.
Let's see:
1. Today all words..nothing tangible;
2. I tracked her down in the hospital....she didn't even consider to reach out;
3. She told me I could not come to her tent trailer two weeks ago and had been drinking all the time. Called me only when drunk. Only time she wanted me was when she wanted sex.
So good point...her actions are not pointing to wishing to be with me.
Rest is not forthcoming yet...
You are BANG ON about actions as opposed to words.
Let's see:
1. Today all words..nothing tangible;
2. I tracked her down in the hospital....she didn't even consider to reach out;
3. She told me I could not come to her tent trailer two weeks ago and had been drinking all the time. Called me only when drunk. Only time she wanted me was when she wanted sex.
So good point...her actions are not pointing to wishing to be with me.
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
I'm going to guess that in her world you are a source of "supply" - the validation, excitement and drama that she craves, not another person with emotions, rights and needs that are as important as hers. Asking her to consider you as a person is like asking a fish to fly - she literally can't, because she doesn't have the capacity to really see another person. Maybe she had it once and the alcohol has destroyed it, or maybe it was never there. Asking her to be honest with you is like asking a fish to sing Jonas Brothers songs - ditto.
I agree with something that an earlier poster said about your daughter - if she hasn't figured it out already, she will soon - her mother has abandoned her in favor of alcohol. Maybe her mother likes the idea of being a "good mom" and will do things like make a big deal about wanting to see her daughter, but liking the idea of being a mom and actually being a good mom are very different. Your daughter needs to know that she is very, very important to at least one person in the world, and your wife has taken herself out of the running, so it falls to you to be the good parent.
I am thinking that being a good parent in this situation means not exposing your daughter to more of the craziness that inhabits your wife. It may also means being fully present for your daughter yourself, which might mean that you have to cut your wife loose and let her go off and live in tents and attempt booty calls and rack up frequent flyer miles in the local ERs and detoxes while you get on with life.
I agree with something that an earlier poster said about your daughter - if she hasn't figured it out already, she will soon - her mother has abandoned her in favor of alcohol. Maybe her mother likes the idea of being a "good mom" and will do things like make a big deal about wanting to see her daughter, but liking the idea of being a mom and actually being a good mom are very different. Your daughter needs to know that she is very, very important to at least one person in the world, and your wife has taken herself out of the running, so it falls to you to be the good parent.
I am thinking that being a good parent in this situation means not exposing your daughter to more of the craziness that inhabits your wife. It may also means being fully present for your daughter yourself, which might mean that you have to cut your wife loose and let her go off and live in tents and attempt booty calls and rack up frequent flyer miles in the local ERs and detoxes while you get on with life.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,634
Well there is the catch - just as the alcoholic doesn't have to stop drinking, you don't have to live in limbo. You are making that choice. Now whether that is a good choice or a bad choice for you, that's up to you.
By leaving it I guess you are talking about divorce and the financial burden of that? Again, no need to rush in to anything and perhaps that is the least of your worries right now?
It sucks, nothing good about this situation in general but you do have an opportunity to jump off the crazy train, what if you just leave her alone?
No one is going to give her a gold statue for getting sober, if she does. There is no parade, so I'm not sure where you are getting that from. It just sounds like resentment and that's understandable. The problem with resentment is that it helps no one, especially you.
By leaving it I guess you are talking about divorce and the financial burden of that? Again, no need to rush in to anything and perhaps that is the least of your worries right now?
It sucks, nothing good about this situation in general but you do have an opportunity to jump off the crazy train, what if you just leave her alone?
No one is going to give her a gold statue for getting sober, if she does. There is no parade, so I'm not sure where you are getting that from. It just sounds like resentment and that's understandable. The problem with resentment is that it helps no one, especially you.
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Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 543
Hi, listen up...she is getting on with her life, she is an ex...that means you are free to go get on with your life. She is responsible for herself...she doesnt worry about your happiness....SO why not try to turn the focus around and put it on yourself. Make yourself happy! You only get one life...dont use it fretting about an "ex" it should be spent looking after YOU.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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w.ll…...a question----I note that you did call her the "EXAW" in this thread...and, other threads, referred tp her as "AW".....
I didn't see anything about a divorce proceedings in your posts.
LOL...can you clear up my confusion on this?
I didn't see anything about a divorce proceedings in your posts.
LOL...can you clear up my confusion on this?
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
She has been actively using for at least 10 years, with minimal periods of sobriety (3 months max, unverified).
this has been your reality for the past ten years. virtually all of your young daughter's life.
but a part of me hangs on....
hangs on to........what? i don't ask that to be flippant....but it helps if we can clearly identify and verbalize what we think our motives are. she's been lost in addiction for a decade or so........there is your body of evidence.
this has been your reality for the past ten years. virtually all of your young daughter's life.
but a part of me hangs on....
hangs on to........what? i don't ask that to be flippant....but it helps if we can clearly identify and verbalize what we think our motives are. she's been lost in addiction for a decade or so........there is your body of evidence.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 276
I hang on because I believed we were a good team. We had a very strong, physical and intense connection. But that may have been the chaos...
I wanted to believe that I, our family was worth fighting for as I have fought for her and when all was falling apart I had to do the responsible thing and put a wall between us, take over everything and manage the aftermath on my own. I want to believe I am a good person and that the person I married loved me enough to at least show something...I feel like a total failure and ya, when I look at the facts...how she still calls the affair partner...that shows me something.
I wanted to believe that I, our family was worth fighting for as I have fought for her and when all was falling apart I had to do the responsible thing and put a wall between us, take over everything and manage the aftermath on my own. I want to believe I am a good person and that the person I married loved me enough to at least show something...I feel like a total failure and ya, when I look at the facts...how she still calls the affair partner...that shows me something.
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Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 868
Originally Posted by woodlandlost 
I hang on because I believed we were a good team. We had a very strong, physical and intense connection. But that may have been the chaos...
I wanted to believe that I, our family was worth fighting for as I have fought for her and when all was falling apart I had to do the responsible thing and put a wall between us, take over everything and manage the aftermath on my own. I want to believe I am a good person and that the person I married loved me enough to at least show something...I feel like a total failure and ya, when I look at the facts...how she still calls the affair partner...that shows me something.
I wanted to believe that I, our family was worth fighting for as I have fought for her and when all was falling apart I had to do the responsible thing and put a wall between us, take over everything and manage the aftermath on my own. I want to believe I am a good person and that the person I married loved me enough to at least show something...I feel like a total failure and ya, when I look at the facts...how she still calls the affair partner...that shows me something.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,634
From the desk of Melody Beattie
"After learning about codependency and the behaviors involved with it, and then working on choosing different behavioral options such as detaching, letting go, feeling my emotions and setting and enforcing boundaries – including saying no — I began to feel … ashamed for having been so blatantly codependent.
I’d been the poster girl for the hand-wringing, anxiety-ridden, people-pleasing, controlling and obsessive stereotype often associated with people identifying themselves as “codependent.”
It (being codependent) wasn’t glamorous. It wasn’t something I was proud of.
Then I began to understand: there’s no shame in being codependent or having been that way.
The real root of the word “codependent” and the original definition came from the legal use of the word in contracts and documents. It (codependent) meant that an action was mutually dependent on or influenced by something else – someone or something besides the original factor or persons involved.
Codependent defined certain legal terms in agreements, contracts or decisions.
Then, in the 80’s, when codependency came out as a word used to describe (mostly) dysfunctional relationships, it took on a new meaning for many of us – but not a completely new one.
When making decisions and choices, we all take into consideration various factors: our choice’s impact on people we love, the results of that choice on our (and other people’s lives) and other considerations.
Being “Codependent No More” (or at least “Not as Much”) doesn’t mean we’re crazy. And isn’t cause for embarrassment.
It means we’re now consciously considering the motivations for our decisions. For many of us, it means that instead of making our choices solely to please others – or to try to control them – we’re considering all our options, and finally (for many of us), understanding the impact of our decisions and behaviors on ourselves. We learned that we matter too.
There’s no need to be embarrassed to be (and stay) Codependent No More.
No need to be ashamed to have gone through the process of allowing codependency (in a negative way) to impact our lives, and then learning to stop trying to do what’s impossible (control others) and start focusing on the possible: taking good care of ourselves. Consciously and in a way that takes others and (at last) ourselves into consideration when making decisions.
Feeling embarrassed about different stages of life we experience on the way to becoming who we are now is no different from cringing when we see pictures of how we wore our hair 25 years ago. We can feel that way; but it isn’t necessary. We were doing what we thought best – at that time.
We weren’t crazy – even at the height of our obsessing and controlling. We were codependent on unhealthy factors in our decisions and behaviors.
To many millions of us, that revelation was and still is a huge relief. We set ourselves free to live our lives in a way that was and still is in our best interests.
No shame in that".
"After learning about codependency and the behaviors involved with it, and then working on choosing different behavioral options such as detaching, letting go, feeling my emotions and setting and enforcing boundaries – including saying no — I began to feel … ashamed for having been so blatantly codependent.
I’d been the poster girl for the hand-wringing, anxiety-ridden, people-pleasing, controlling and obsessive stereotype often associated with people identifying themselves as “codependent.”
It (being codependent) wasn’t glamorous. It wasn’t something I was proud of.
Then I began to understand: there’s no shame in being codependent or having been that way.
The real root of the word “codependent” and the original definition came from the legal use of the word in contracts and documents. It (codependent) meant that an action was mutually dependent on or influenced by something else – someone or something besides the original factor or persons involved.
Codependent defined certain legal terms in agreements, contracts or decisions.
Then, in the 80’s, when codependency came out as a word used to describe (mostly) dysfunctional relationships, it took on a new meaning for many of us – but not a completely new one.
When making decisions and choices, we all take into consideration various factors: our choice’s impact on people we love, the results of that choice on our (and other people’s lives) and other considerations.
Being “Codependent No More” (or at least “Not as Much”) doesn’t mean we’re crazy. And isn’t cause for embarrassment.
It means we’re now consciously considering the motivations for our decisions. For many of us, it means that instead of making our choices solely to please others – or to try to control them – we’re considering all our options, and finally (for many of us), understanding the impact of our decisions and behaviors on ourselves. We learned that we matter too.
There’s no need to be embarrassed to be (and stay) Codependent No More.
No need to be ashamed to have gone through the process of allowing codependency (in a negative way) to impact our lives, and then learning to stop trying to do what’s impossible (control others) and start focusing on the possible: taking good care of ourselves. Consciously and in a way that takes others and (at last) ourselves into consideration when making decisions.
Feeling embarrassed about different stages of life we experience on the way to becoming who we are now is no different from cringing when we see pictures of how we wore our hair 25 years ago. We can feel that way; but it isn’t necessary. We were doing what we thought best – at that time.
We weren’t crazy – even at the height of our obsessing and controlling. We were codependent on unhealthy factors in our decisions and behaviors.
To many millions of us, that revelation was and still is a huge relief. We set ourselves free to live our lives in a way that was and still is in our best interests.
No shame in that".
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Northwest
Posts: 4,215
Originally Posted by woodlandlost
I hang on because I believed we were a good team. We had a very strong, physical and intense connection. But that may have been the chaos...
Chaos and drama can make for great sex. That’s why “breakup sex” is so common.
But chaos and drama make life pretty miserable otherwise. And they’re absolutely terrible for raising an emotionally healthy child.
That “intense” sex is your leash and she keeps yanking it to keep you enmeshed. I don’t know you, but you don’t seem like one of those people who can just view sex as a pleasant recreational activity and walk away unaffected.
You did all you could and more than most would to try to keep this relationship together. That doesn’t make you a bad guy...it makes you human.
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Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 868
Originally Posted by Ariesagain
Bingo.
Chaos and drama can make for great sex. That’s why “breakup sex” is so common.
But chaos and drama make life pretty miserable otherwise. And they’re absolutely terrible for raising an emotionally healthy child.
That “intense” sex is your leash and she keeps yanking it to keep you enmeshed. I don’t know you, but you don’t seem like one of those people who can just view sex as a pleasant recreational activity and walk away unaffected.
You did all you could and more than most would to try to keep this relationship together. That doesn’t make you a bad guy...it makes you human.
Chaos and drama can make for great sex. That’s why “breakup sex” is so common.
But chaos and drama make life pretty miserable otherwise. And they’re absolutely terrible for raising an emotionally healthy child.
That “intense” sex is your leash and she keeps yanking it to keep you enmeshed. I don’t know you, but you don’t seem like one of those people who can just view sex as a pleasant recreational activity and walk away unaffected.
You did all you could and more than most would to try to keep this relationship together. That doesn’t make you a bad guy...it makes you human.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 276
Thank you all for responding today. I am at a very low point. DD is on a play date so I can try and wrestle myself together. I had a good connection through AA who was kinda supporting me and now that my EXAW is back on the island and recently in the hospital (well I told that AA lady that) and she told me she can't support me now...after being there for me for 4 months so I feel gutted. I don't have a lot to fall back on here, exception being a few people in A;-Anon, one lady is having her own struggles with their child so isn't available. I feel like I am spinning.
I understand how AXW can't be there for me...I just am so utterly hurt by the loss...how we have been divided by this. And on top of it all, the spouse, must examine themselves and take on the burden of blame. Aren't all relationships work, don't we all struggle, don't we all have to trim the branches and encourage new growth...isn't that natural?
I am so sad. Sitting across from that person who I loved so much and have them not even be able to love me anymore...who can't actually be able to give me some comfort after all the hurt without making me feel like I am being selfish. I am not asking her to fulfil my emotional needs...but it hurts double when someone blows that off.
I understand how AXW can't be there for me...I just am so utterly hurt by the loss...how we have been divided by this. And on top of it all, the spouse, must examine themselves and take on the burden of blame. Aren't all relationships work, don't we all struggle, don't we all have to trim the branches and encourage new growth...isn't that natural?
I am so sad. Sitting across from that person who I loved so much and have them not even be able to love me anymore...who can't actually be able to give me some comfort after all the hurt without making me feel like I am being selfish. I am not asking her to fulfil my emotional needs...but it hurts double when someone blows that off.
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Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 573
WL, you didn't fail. And you're not less of a person if your relationship doesn't work out. Everyone wants what you wanted. Nobody wants to wind up divorced, or see a relationship fall apart. But the fact is that sometimes it happens, and despite everything that we do to keep things together, it just doesn't work out. You're not selfish for wanting clarity from her or for wanting her to try to work things out and get her life back in order, but if she cannot or will not do those things, you can't make her. It seems very much as tho she just cannot give you want you want from her right now. So the question remains..how much of your life are you going to waste waiting for someone else to determine your happiness?
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Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
looking at the person who hurt us to then turn around and heal us is like expecting the hammer we just smashed our thumb with to turn into a bandage.
at some point you will have to start seeing her for WHO SHE IS more clearly. not who you thought she was, who you wanted her to be, hoped she'd be, encouraged her to be. the sooner you can see it and accept it, the more "honor" you give to the person she actually is.
and once you can see her more clearly, the other pieces will fall into place.
i'm sorry that a few of your recent support contacts are not there for you. i do find it interesting that both were women............
at some point you will have to start seeing her for WHO SHE IS more clearly. not who you thought she was, who you wanted her to be, hoped she'd be, encouraged her to be. the sooner you can see it and accept it, the more "honor" you give to the person she actually is.
and once you can see her more clearly, the other pieces will fall into place.
i'm sorry that a few of your recent support contacts are not there for you. i do find it interesting that both were women............
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 276
How so interesting? My Al-Anon group is all women...I am the lone man. And the way in which I met the AA lady was that she showed up to our house 4 months ago, wanting to see how my wife was and she kinda offered to help lend support to me and my daughter.
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wll…….I think you are, most probably, in the grieving process....and, necessarily so. You have suffered a significant loss....the loss of what you wanted the relationship to be and to play out.....
No wonder you feel like you are spinning....grief is one of the hardest feelings for a person to bear....words can't really do it justice....And, we can't do anything but just manage to get through it....
You DO need human support....I feel that it is the most important factor in surviving the grief and the pain....along with the knowledge that, eventually, it won't feel this way.....
No wonder you feel like you are spinning....grief is one of the hardest feelings for a person to bear....words can't really do it justice....And, we can't do anything but just manage to get through it....
You DO need human support....I feel that it is the most important factor in surviving the grief and the pain....along with the knowledge that, eventually, it won't feel this way.....
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Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 395
This is tough. I really feel for you. You’re in a lot of pain... I know.
But honestly the main relationship issue here isn’t even her alcoholism (in my opinion)... you both have broken up & she’s with someone else (& has been). And you’re asking her about the relationship & then having sex with her??? (Correct me if I misread this)...
I went through hell & back with my ex but no way in hell would I have sex with her if she was seriously dating someone else. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
You are walking right into the fire.
WL, my heart aches the most for your daughter. She is learning and watching some very alarming actions by BOTH her parents.
I don’t mean to offend. Grieving is torture. Breakups are painful. But somehow all this chaos is completely blinding what your #1 priority should be: being a father.
You can get through this!... you can do this!!!
Just stay away from the fire & give yourself more time to grieve & heal.
But honestly the main relationship issue here isn’t even her alcoholism (in my opinion)... you both have broken up & she’s with someone else (& has been). And you’re asking her about the relationship & then having sex with her??? (Correct me if I misread this)...
I went through hell & back with my ex but no way in hell would I have sex with her if she was seriously dating someone else. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
You are walking right into the fire.
WL, my heart aches the most for your daughter. She is learning and watching some very alarming actions by BOTH her parents.
I don’t mean to offend. Grieving is torture. Breakups are painful. But somehow all this chaos is completely blinding what your #1 priority should be: being a father.
You can get through this!... you can do this!!!
Just stay away from the fire & give yourself more time to grieve & heal.
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