Smarie78

As some of you remember, I was a frequent flier on these message boards waxing on and on about the same problem with a very clear solution I was not willing to take. Fast forward to a year later after I finally pulled the trigger and have been living a quiet stress-free happy life. While I did have some challenges with him still texting me, I have blocked and happily moved on. Well, karma works in funny ways because it is now me having to constantly and consistently listen to and advise my sister who is going through her own crisis that can be completely eliminated by dumping both her husband and her mister. She often says she believes in karma because of how much grief she gave me in staying with XABF while now she too is involved with not only another man but a deadbeat husband to boot. Both making her positively miserable, while she has not taken steps to end either one of the relationships.

I sense in me such a frustration in talking to her, an annoyance at how she complains 24/7 and is miserable and depressed yet has the power to completely end it with both losers and live a pretty happy life. She's a gorgeous , successful VP at a large firm and seems to be hell bent on staying in this miserable situation as much as she can't stop telling me how much she wants to leave both these fools. I only bring up her looks and status bc it baffles me more that she would choose to waste it all. Anyway, this post isn't about her, but more about me and being now on the other side of being beyond frustrated at watching someone make the same toxic choice over and over again.

So I have to laugh a bit and wonder, how the hell did you stand it with me??! lol. When I talk to her I want to scream or hang up bc I am so tired of hearing the same sh** with no action! Then I say, wow Smarie, you were this person before so why have you no patience? I really have been supportive of her even when I felt like not answering the phone due to the drain it gives me, but I hate it that inside I am always so overwhelmingly drained at listening to her.

Did any of you feel like you grew more impatient with others once you got further into your healing?

SparkleKitty

On the contrary, the further into recovery I got, the more I found myself capable of compassion, meeting people where they were at (instead of where I wished they were), and detachment when I needed to refill my well.

You can't be there for others without first being there for you. It's okay to take a break from your sister's drama until you're ready to face her with compassion. Most of my resentments were (and are) over other people behaving exactly the way I once behaved--I think that's natural. And it can be overcome in time.

ladyscribbler

One of my biggest challenges in recovery has been learning to navigate relationships with my fellow codies, especially in my foo. Detaching from my ex's business was way easier.

My brother and I grew up in the same alcoholic household, and share a lot of dysfunctional coping mechanisms. I'm in active recovery, and he is not. My refusal to engage in old patterns actually seems to have helped him as well. I've noticed a difference, anyway.

It's hard, isn't it? So easy to see where others are going haywire when we have that crucial bit of distance. I found that setting boundaries helped me a lot more than giving advice.

Giving advice felt more satisfying in the moment; I was doing something. But it always led me to frustration and resentment in the long run, when my (really good!) advice was ignored, or executed improperly, or whatever. It's better for me to keep the discussion along the lines of 'what are you going to do about X' vs. 'you should do (insert good advice here).'

FireSprite

Sort of - but like the others, I eventually developed a larger sense of compassion & an understanding that I couldn't make them "see" things through my recovering view.

At first I just kept trying to explain myself better & share resources they weren't receptive to. I mean, who WOULDN'T want to benefit from all my hard work & learning???? Then I realized it showed me a whole lot about my former self & my mindset & used it as a mirror for my own internal work. What was riling me up? Is it certain topics, etc? Do I have unresolved resentments or fears around those things? What is this reflecting back to me, about me?

Personally, I often find unrecovering codies & those dealing with less-than-obvious dysfunctions far more difficult to deal with all around; so boundary setting & detachment are critical tools for me in all relationships - not just in dealing active addiction.

tomsteve

early on yes.then i learned the greatest words i dont always remember:
not my circus
not my monkey.

want to bitch,moan, and complain? go for it!
but not to or around me.

i took a look at why i allowed the chaos and drama around me, which accepting i was allowing it to happen was crucial.

hopeful4

Hi there SMarie! It's good to hear from you.

I get what you are saying. I believe it's so much more when it's your FOO involved. Much more sensitive. The bond of sisterhood can be a very tight one, and it would be hard to deal with that.

I have found myself to be a more compassionate person at times, but I definitely get frustrated too. I think that's normal to feel that way. I can definitely relate to others better, but I always have to remind myself they are on their own path, not the path that I think is right for them.

It's ok to draw boundaries and back away a bit if you get too frustrated. And to remember that just like it did for you, it is taking her time. Hopefully she will see the light, but only she can decide that.

Smarie78

Thanks everyone. Really insightful stuff. I am certainly very compassionate with her and I never let my irritation show. She always ends the conversation with "thank you so much I truly don't know what I would do without you". And it's great to know that I am showing her love and compassion. I think you helped me understand that it isn't the compassion I am struggling with showing, but the boundaries. She wants to discuss it every day at length on phone calls and there are times when I just feel tapped out. Like I can't physically listen to it anymore, and I have actually gotten good at saying 'i love being here for you but I just need to ensure my mind is healthy enough when we engage'...or something like that.

Another thing you all mentioned was resentment. I've no doubt I have it because when I was going through my own hell my sister wasn't there for me. She ostracized me a bit in fact and I never had her to go to when I was struggling. I don't hate her for it though bc she admitted to me that she just couldn't handle my toxic relationship with xabf bc it frightened her too much. She just couldn't cope with it.

Compassion with boundaries - I like that. I can do that :-)

Btw, she recently discovered she is a Codie! She said she had no idea she was just like me when for so long she was angry at me for being one. Why can't you be normal?? she'd say. Now she realizes, she's had these same issues buried all along. We are twins afterall

SmallButMighty

Hi Smarie, nice to see you again

My answer is... yes and no.

I have a lower tolerance for annoying behavior. If somebody is causing me to feel angry, anxious, stressed or some other negative emotion, I give myself permission to not have to deal with them. Sometimes that's short term... some extreme cases have been 100% cut from my life.

I still struggle with the FOG when it comes to a few family members. I do try to be understanding and compassionate, but I have learned that I can be those things without losing what's healthy for me in the process. I no longer feel responsible for how other people feel. I don't break my back bending over backwards trying to help people fix their lives anymore... it has cost me quite a few "friends" and some family too... but oh well.... my life is happy and calm while they are still out there somewhere stressed and chaotic.

For me, I don't think it's so much a lack of patience for others, as it is me recognizing behaviors that trigger me and "not going there".

hopeful4

Compassion with boundaries sounds like a winner to me! It's absolutely OK to tell her you cannot talk about it anymore at that time b/c it's not good for your own psyche. You don't love her any less, but just cannot hear it at that time.

That too may also help her focus on something else instead of ruminating on her own misery. When I was going through a really difficult time, my sister helpd me with this immensely. There was nothing she could do or say to fix anything, and I knew she was there for me. However, what she did do was help me move my focus onto more healthy things. And she sat with me.

I went through some pretty serious PTSD that I was terrified to be alone for a couple of months. She talked me through some of those dark times, and just her keeping me company is something that was absolutely invaluable.

You are doing great friend!!!

trailmix

Funny I was just watching an episode of Mom on TV and it was kind of about this very situation.

On Mom, they are all members of AA as well as being friends. In that group, one is the sponsor of another. The sponsee person had broken up with her boyfriend but was angry he was now dating someone else and etc etc and the Sponsor said, I just can't listen to this anymore - you never take my advice anyway - and she started to walk out, the other person caught up with her and they decided they would no longer be sponsor/sponsee.

Now the Sponsor had a lot of other things going on in her life and she hadn't had a sponsor for over a year.

When she came to share at a meeting (the former Sponsor) she said, she realized (due to a discussion with someone else) that she knows that she needs a sponsor and that this program wasn't meant to be done alone.

Anyway! The question this brought to mind, from your post is, who do you talk to? Who do you share your stuff with, including this?

PeacefulWater12

In my early recovery, I went through a time of impatience with others. This was on me not them.

As my recovery time has grown, I don't get impatient, I feel compassion BUT (and this is the important part), I express my compassion to them briefly and then move on with my life. I don't dwell on other people now.

Their business not mine.

Another bit realisation for me was that some people want to remain stuck where they are. They are not ready to make the changes that might help them. Like alkies can't quit until they are ready, codies can't change until they are ready.

Some people are comfortable where they are. A place which to other people might appear dreadful.

So I retired my Wonder Woman outfit and stopped flying in to save the world!

Life is much easier now for me and I am less of a nuisance to others.

velma929

Sometimes the solutions are rather obvious, but like Dorothy clicking her heels and saying "There's no place like home" people have to come to that, themselves. *Someone else* who thinks it with his brain or feels it with his heart just won't get the job done.

I think it's fine, when someone is stuck, to say, "I'll talk with you about anything else in the world. But we've discussed your lack of clean dishes to eat from, ad infinitum. We've gone over the options of washing the dishes you have or eating from disposable ones, and you're not willing to do either. So, how's your job going? Still fun?"

Eauchiche

Dear Smarie
You have always been a tower of strength and good example to me from the first time I came to these pages. One of the first things I noticed about you was your candor, almost to the point of "bluntness," a quality I have come to admire a LOT. I have never felt the least temptation to "put up" with you.

As for the above quote, I never cease to be amazed at the high intelligence found in some members of our community. Unfortunately which, like Alcoholism, does not make us immune to the disease of codependency.

I have avoided certain unrecovered folks during all stages of my own recovery. In the beginning, they would trigger me. Now I just don't see the need to waste valuable time listening to them bitch and not change.

pdm22

Not sure how you guys grew up, but sometimes when I see situations outside of my own family of origin that are similar to mine, things do kind of make sense when I relate it back. For example, currently I’m watching Transparent (a fictional show), and all 3 of the adult kids have trouble with intimacy and sabotage their relationships, even when they seem at times to be trying not to. Based on how they grew up, it does kind of make sense that they are the way they are.

For a real life example, they had an episode on the ID channel, interviewing the son of Theresa Knorr, a woman who was extremely abusive to her children, and killed 2 of them. One of the surviving daughters ended up in a mental institution and died in her early 40s, one son ended up in the prison system, and the one giving the interview was mandated into therapy. He seemed to have a pretty good understanding of child abuse and it’s affects, and was married with a child. Considering how he grew up, he seemed to be doing relatively well.

I didn’t have abuse to that extreme, but there was abuse and neglect, and I believe what would be considered parental mental illness/ distress that wasn’t addressed or handled well. You don’t come out of that kind of upbringing unscathed, as my sister and I both experienced. However, our personalities are very different, and unfortunately she never seemed to be interested in a “recovery” route. I know for me, the first exposure I had to any kind of therapy was age 20, and I’ve been doing various things ever since (she and I are both in our 40s now). At one point, maybe about 15 years ago, I had this book that was an inter- library loan from another state called “Understanding The Borderine Mother”, which I thought was excellent, and I asked her if she would like to read it before it was returned. Her response was “I don’t want to understand the Borderline mother”.

And there it was in a nutshell, she doesn’t want to understand. And even with the various therapies I had over the years, there are still things I struggle with sometimes, things that come up, so I try to remind myself that it does make sense why she is where she’s at, given that she refuses to look at herself or have any kind of therapy. Even if you have patience with others, something about siblings can be different (at least for me). I get sad for her, watching her deal with this POS that she almost lost her life over at one point, but she keeps taking him back and refuses to get any kind of help for herself. I just try to limit my exposure to that, but it’s difficult to watch, because it’s my sister and I love her. I also try to remind myself what it took to go no contact with people from my past and the follow through on that, and how hard it was, and maybe what comes up for her is another thing she doesn’t want to deal with. I don’t know..it’s sad, though.

Awal

I think you have to use the same detachment principles which you would use in any situation causing you stress. You can still care and you can still listen and be around her but inwardly you know this ISNT your responsibility or choice... it is hers. She will do what she needs to do when she reaches that point. She just needs to let off steam to someone she knows loves her. Just try to be there without offering advice or solutions, she knows the solution and will carry it through when she feels ready. You are a good sister X