Oh man, this HURTS.
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Oh man, this HURTS.
AH moved out one week ago. He refuses to drink and drive (thankfully!), and he knows he has to be sober to see our son, so he has not been drinking during the day like he usually does. He has spent time with Kiddo every day, and that has really helped Kiddo adjust. I am beyond grateful for that, although I am wary that this might just be like a ‘grace’ period or something. He has been easy to get along with, almost to a fault. He picked Kiddo up from my parents’ house yesterday, and my mother told me how odd it was, that AH talked to her like everything was perfectly normal and acted like nothing has changed. For that matter, he acts like it’s a perfectly normal thing for him to pick Kiddo up from day camp... never mind the fact that the only reason Kiddo is enrolled in day camp is because AH could not stay sober enough to have Kiddo at home!
We haven’t really had any major discussions, but he still firmly stands by his assertion that our major problem is that I’m not okay with his drinking - not that his drinking has affected his family life to the point that he was pretty much forced to move out. Today I talked to him very briefly and said, “You don’t have any desire to give up drinking, do you?” He didn’t even have to think about it. He told me that he missed us (me and Kiddo), but that he couldn’t live with someone who would try to control his drinking. He said he knew his “levels” had gotten screwed up but that he had a lot going on that he was stressed about, that’s why he drank more, blah blah blah. I replied that it really didn’t sound like he wanted to work on our marriage at all and he said, “if that’s the way you see it. I’m still going to drink. At some point I may not, but I can’t promise that.” My heart pretty much just fell out of my chest and broke all over the floor. I guess I appreciate the honesty, but it makes me wonder... when did he stop loving me? How long has it been??
He continues to be the “fun” parent. But when I suggested that he could maybe pay half for kiddo’s school supplies, he looked at me like I had three heads. He literally never thought of it, because I have always taken care of school supplies. I asked him what his thoughts were on Kiddo having a human growth and development class, because the school sent home a paper offering the course on a voluntary basis. AH looked like a deer in headlights and said, “Well, whatever you think, I guess.” If it were up to him, Kiddo would have holey underwear, too-small shoes, threadbare bedsheets, and a PlayStation 4. When it comes to the actual responsibilities of parenting, or life in general, he defers to me. I feel like I’m dealing with an overgrown kid who wants all of the fun in life and none of the responsibilities.
This just hurts so much, because this is not who my husband used to be at all. He used to be my partner and my best friend. I could depend on him, for the big things and the small things. Our relationship wasn’t perfect, I don’t mean to paint that picture, but we were a team. We decided things together; we had an actual MARRIAGE.
I just feel completely lost and heartbroken.
We haven’t really had any major discussions, but he still firmly stands by his assertion that our major problem is that I’m not okay with his drinking - not that his drinking has affected his family life to the point that he was pretty much forced to move out. Today I talked to him very briefly and said, “You don’t have any desire to give up drinking, do you?” He didn’t even have to think about it. He told me that he missed us (me and Kiddo), but that he couldn’t live with someone who would try to control his drinking. He said he knew his “levels” had gotten screwed up but that he had a lot going on that he was stressed about, that’s why he drank more, blah blah blah. I replied that it really didn’t sound like he wanted to work on our marriage at all and he said, “if that’s the way you see it. I’m still going to drink. At some point I may not, but I can’t promise that.” My heart pretty much just fell out of my chest and broke all over the floor. I guess I appreciate the honesty, but it makes me wonder... when did he stop loving me? How long has it been??
He continues to be the “fun” parent. But when I suggested that he could maybe pay half for kiddo’s school supplies, he looked at me like I had three heads. He literally never thought of it, because I have always taken care of school supplies. I asked him what his thoughts were on Kiddo having a human growth and development class, because the school sent home a paper offering the course on a voluntary basis. AH looked like a deer in headlights and said, “Well, whatever you think, I guess.” If it were up to him, Kiddo would have holey underwear, too-small shoes, threadbare bedsheets, and a PlayStation 4. When it comes to the actual responsibilities of parenting, or life in general, he defers to me. I feel like I’m dealing with an overgrown kid who wants all of the fun in life and none of the responsibilities.
This just hurts so much, because this is not who my husband used to be at all. He used to be my partner and my best friend. I could depend on him, for the big things and the small things. Our relationship wasn’t perfect, I don’t mean to paint that picture, but we were a team. We decided things together; we had an actual MARRIAGE.
I just feel completely lost and heartbroken.
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Join Date: Feb 2019
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I’m sorry. This completely sucks. Honestly, I would expect that this is a grace period of him trying to act cool, because his whole pitch is that you are the unreasonable one, so if he was falling over drunk and unable to see his kid on the first day he has a “nag free” environment, it would prove immediately that the problem is deeper than you disliking his totally reasonable habit.
I would guess that you’re going to start seeing him juuuuuust a little drunk when he supposed to get his kid, and then a lot drunk once he’s passed whatever test he has that for himself on what it takes to prove that you were the problem. Be vigilant would be my recommendation.
i’m sorry you have to be the grown-up all the time. I can imagine that sucks even more for someone like you who used to feel like you had a real partner. But you were doing the right thing for your kid, and at least you will have space to feel your feelings and process all of this.
hugs.
I would guess that you’re going to start seeing him juuuuuust a little drunk when he supposed to get his kid, and then a lot drunk once he’s passed whatever test he has that for himself on what it takes to prove that you were the problem. Be vigilant would be my recommendation.
i’m sorry you have to be the grown-up all the time. I can imagine that sucks even more for someone like you who used to feel like you had a real partner. But you were doing the right thing for your kid, and at least you will have space to feel your feelings and process all of this.
hugs.
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I’m sorry, sweetie. It’s a nightmare right now...but don’t forget this is the guy who blacked out while taking care of your child...twice. That is not casual use. Nor is letting his family dissolve over an occasional beverage.
This isn’t about you controlling him. This is about addiction controlling him.
You have to be the adult here because your son needs a parent, a real parent, not just the good-times guy.
“I feel like I’m dealing with an overgrown kid who wants all of the fun in life and none of the responsibilities.”
You are, and right now it sucks. But more will be revealed, yes?
Sending you strength and a hug.
This isn’t about you controlling him. This is about addiction controlling him.
You have to be the adult here because your son needs a parent, a real parent, not just the good-times guy.
“I feel like I’m dealing with an overgrown kid who wants all of the fun in life and none of the responsibilities.”
You are, and right now it sucks. But more will be revealed, yes?
Sending you strength and a hug.
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Originally Posted by saudade8277 
We haven’t really had any major discussions, but he still firmly stands by his assertion that our major problem is that I’m not okay with his drinking - not that his drinking has affected his family life to the point that he was pretty much forced to move out.
His actions and words really point to how attached he is to alcohol. If he were having one beer after work every night, you wouldn't be on this forum posting. That's not the case. Clearly alcohol has become his number one focus, as it does with addiction.
It doesn't mean he doesn't love you or that he ever stopped but to him you are asking him to give up what he feels he cannot, his priority is alcohol. It does not make sense unless you are an addict. No logic can be applied to someone leaving their family for a drink, but it happens every day. It's what his mind tells him he needs, it's his comfort and his escape.
It is a defense. It's not him, it's not the alcohol, it's your judgement of the alcohol.
How someone who has blacked out twice while his child was alone in his care can come to that conclusion is unimaginable, but such is the insanity of alcoholism.
Try not to take it personally.
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saudade…...I doubt that your husband "stopped loving you".And, it is really awful for you to torture yourself, believing that.
He is an alcoholic....and he is doing and thinking like an alcoholic. This is about you, only, that you have interfered with his drinking and, thereby, became the "enemy". Anyone who comes between the alcoholic and their drink becomes the enemy...even their loved ones.
For the alcoholic...to give up drinking forever....feels like a death sentence. to function without alcohol seems unfathomable....and, fills them with great fear...//Like, if you asked a fish to give up water.....
It probably just seems like a simple, logical decision, to you....but, you aren't an alcoholic, and can never know what it feels like....
In other news...this world is filled with men who know nothing about childcare and children's needs....because they were never expected to learn....I don't think we can lay ignorance, in that area on alcohol....because this is just as common with men who don't drink.....If we don' require men to care for the children, from the beginning, we are, also, guilty for enabling their incompetence.....
Take me, for instance...I know nothing about operating heavy moving equipment. Nobody ever taught me, and, nobody ever required me to learn to do it. Only one time--I tried to landscape our yard with a rented backhoe with a number 11 blade...and, it was a total disaster...lol.....
Seriously....I don't think this is about love or lack of love...You and your husband have a basic disagreement---He doesn't feel that he can live without alcohol...and, you can't live with it.
And, it does hurt like absolute Hell, to have to accept that fact....
You each have a right to your own feelings....
It reminds me of the following song lyrics …..
https://www.bing.com/search?q=youtub...A&pc=EUPP_UE04
He is an alcoholic....and he is doing and thinking like an alcoholic. This is about you, only, that you have interfered with his drinking and, thereby, became the "enemy". Anyone who comes between the alcoholic and their drink becomes the enemy...even their loved ones.
For the alcoholic...to give up drinking forever....feels like a death sentence. to function without alcohol seems unfathomable....and, fills them with great fear...//Like, if you asked a fish to give up water.....
It probably just seems like a simple, logical decision, to you....but, you aren't an alcoholic, and can never know what it feels like....
In other news...this world is filled with men who know nothing about childcare and children's needs....because they were never expected to learn....I don't think we can lay ignorance, in that area on alcohol....because this is just as common with men who don't drink.....If we don' require men to care for the children, from the beginning, we are, also, guilty for enabling their incompetence.....
Take me, for instance...I know nothing about operating heavy moving equipment. Nobody ever taught me, and, nobody ever required me to learn to do it. Only one time--I tried to landscape our yard with a rented backhoe with a number 11 blade...and, it was a total disaster...lol.....
Seriously....I don't think this is about love or lack of love...You and your husband have a basic disagreement---He doesn't feel that he can live without alcohol...and, you can't live with it.
And, it does hurt like absolute Hell, to have to accept that fact....
You each have a right to your own feelings....
It reminds me of the following song lyrics …..
https://www.bing.com/search?q=youtub...A&pc=EUPP_UE04
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Join Date: May 2018
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Ye.. I was pretty stunned by the 'acting as if everything is normal', it's cruel and terribly selfish. It's all part of the denial. God forbid he looks at a situation in his life and says.. My drinking problem caused that. So they deny the situation.. Deny your emotion by ignoring it.
Until the pain of his life is worse than the pain of never drinking again.. This won't change. I've been saying in recent post that my EXAH goes round with this everything is awesome mentality. I saw him with his enabler today... And he is not a man in love. He looked bored and hung over.
I looked wild and free!
Until the pain of his life is worse than the pain of never drinking again.. This won't change. I've been saying in recent post that my EXAH goes round with this everything is awesome mentality. I saw him with his enabler today... And he is not a man in love. He looked bored and hung over.
I looked wild and free!
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Join Date: Jun 2019
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I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. It’s like alcohol gives these men scripts - it was just a few months ago that almost word for word my AH had the conversation you outlined above where he explicitly chooses alcohol over his family and blamed the entire bad situation on my need to control him. His tune only started to change when he spent quite a bit of time away from us and reality hit.
I hope your AH has a reality check soon. To me it sounds like he’s playing it cool for sure, especially because he’s clearly putting on an acting job for you and your mom.
I’m no expert here, that’s for sure. But I can certainly empathize with your situation.
I hope your AH has a reality check soon. To me it sounds like he’s playing it cool for sure, especially because he’s clearly putting on an acting job for you and your mom.
I’m no expert here, that’s for sure. But I can certainly empathize with your situation.
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One other helpful thing I’ve continued to remind myself of is that none of this is a matter of love or how much he loves you or if he loves you. It’s simply him choosing alcohol over no alcohol as everyone here keeps reminding me. Difficult for you and I to comprehend, but something that helps when I’m staring at the person I married and his words and choices are making zero sense to me.
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Originally Posted by saudade8277
.....his assertion that our major problem is that I’m not okay with his drinking......
...... he couldn’t live with someone who would try to control his drinking.
...... he couldn’t live with someone who would try to control his drinking.
Right now you are taking care of the kiddo and taking care of business, and VERY WELL.
The quotes above, on the other hand, are the essence of why we work our own recovery program as family members. The goal for us, more precisely, is not to be OKAY with their drinking, but dispassionate about it. I doubt that this is ever possible while we still live with someone in active addiction.
Keep coming back. We are here to support you!!!
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I certainly agree with fwn (and Eauch, too)...that it takes some practice at detachment to wrap your head around the idea that it is not about love or not----it is what alcoholics feel compelled to do....to drink.
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Whew guys, thank you. You all are amazing at firmly and gently refocusing my perspective. I am a planner, and like for things to be organized in an orderly fashion - first A, then B, followed by C. I’m a nurse and this is the course I try to help set for my patients, too. And as nuts as it sounds, even though it was chaotic with AH living here and drinking, I had acclimated in a way. This situation is so new and uncharted, and my normal ability to focus and prioritize has been obliterated for the time being. I feel so bad because I just come here, completely spaz out on you guys, read your answers and get my perspective readjusted again, lol... and then wash, rinse, repeat. I’m so sorry that I’m being so spazzy and so needy.
I’m also still struggling with the fact that AH’s behavior is actually almost completely textbook alcoholic behavior. I keep thinking of him as my husband first and alcoholic second. Like it’s a relationship problem first and then an addiction problem. I really have to get that through my head somehow. Dandylion, those song lyrics you posted are spot on, lol. That’s exactly the way it is.
And I’ve got to get a handle on my expectations. It’s literally only been one week (which feels like an eternity, honestly!) and I think I’m getting too wrapped up in each individual interaction with him, trying to wring every drop of meaning out of it. Not real proud to admit this, lol... but I guess there was a part of me that was thinking that after one or two nights away from us, AH would be completely devastated and knocking on my door, maybe with a boom box and a bouquet of flowers, ready to promise me and Kiddo the world. Realistically I KNOW that’s absurd, and I’m fighting the urge to delete that, lol... but the truth is the truth. Even when it embarrasses the daylights out of me.
I’m also still struggling with the fact that AH’s behavior is actually almost completely textbook alcoholic behavior. I keep thinking of him as my husband first and alcoholic second. Like it’s a relationship problem first and then an addiction problem. I really have to get that through my head somehow. Dandylion, those song lyrics you posted are spot on, lol. That’s exactly the way it is.
And I’ve got to get a handle on my expectations. It’s literally only been one week (which feels like an eternity, honestly!) and I think I’m getting too wrapped up in each individual interaction with him, trying to wring every drop of meaning out of it. Not real proud to admit this, lol... but I guess there was a part of me that was thinking that after one or two nights away from us, AH would be completely devastated and knocking on my door, maybe with a boom box and a bouquet of flowers, ready to promise me and Kiddo the world. Realistically I KNOW that’s absurd, and I’m fighting the urge to delete that, lol... but the truth is the truth. Even when it embarrasses the daylights out of me.
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Originally Posted by saudade8277
I’m also still struggling with the fact that AH’s behavior is actually almost completely textbook alcoholic behavior. I keep thinking of him as my husband first and alcoholic second. Like it’s a relationship problem first and then an addiction problem. I really have to get that through my head somehow.
In the Addiction, Lies and relationships articles that I link to often, there is a part in there about how alcoholism in the later stages can be considered as debilitating as schizophrenia. The difference, as they say, is while schizophrenia might be much easier to see, define and assess, alcoholism is not. I think that is where many people struggle.
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saudade…..I think you hit on an important point....that so many other people do, also....that, they assume that it is a relationship problem, first, rather than an alcoholism problem, first.
And, even if relationship problems do exist, they can't really be addressed until or unless the alcoholism is put into remission....
And, even if relationship problems do exist, they can't really be addressed until or unless the alcoholism is put into remission....
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Saudade - I had that same mental block for SO LONG. Years. Thinking this was all a relationship problem, talking it out, even marriage counseling where I’d back him when he insisted he wasn’t an alcoholic and we just needed to work something out as a couple. Hearing the same “I’ll do betters” and “I’m sorrys” thinking that he’s really change things THIS time. It eventually drove me out of my MIND. And led me here to SR.
Now I am 100% certain that this is NOT a marriage problem and there is zero I can do make him change his behavior. All I can do is tell him we will no longer agree to live with an alcoholic and let him decide his own path from there.
I’m sure a week feels like an eternity, but things will get better I just know it. Focus on you, start doing some things differently for yourself. Maybe do dinners with girlfriends every other week, take your son on long “exploration” walks, start some new traditions that you guys look forward to together instead of thinking about AH. He’s going to do what he’s going to do and you’re better off starting a new version of your life without him in order to keep your sanity.
Now I am 100% certain that this is NOT a marriage problem and there is zero I can do make him change his behavior. All I can do is tell him we will no longer agree to live with an alcoholic and let him decide his own path from there.
I’m sure a week feels like an eternity, but things will get better I just know it. Focus on you, start doing some things differently for yourself. Maybe do dinners with girlfriends every other week, take your son on long “exploration” walks, start some new traditions that you guys look forward to together instead of thinking about AH. He’s going to do what he’s going to do and you’re better off starting a new version of your life without him in order to keep your sanity.
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I think it's significant that you recognize that this is classic alcoholic behavior - it's like these guys (and gals and non-binary pals) all have the same textbook that they're reading from. Recognizing that he is pretty generic and not particularly original or special can help you avoid the trap of "terminal uniqueness" - my situation is so far out of the range of known human behavior that the resources or help or support that other people seek out couldn't possibly be relevant to me.
I understand that many alcoholics consider themselves terminally unique because it helps to justify their drinking - well yes I do drink a lot, but nobody has suffered like I have/nobody understands the stresses I'm under/nobody has as much to deal with as I do, and therefore nobody can criticize me. I also know how dizzying it can be when you realize that the wonderful person you married is being replaced by a basic alcoholic.
I also know how much it sucks to be the responsible parent - the one who's not as much fun as a barrelful of monkeys and who actually keeps track of limits, bedtimes, attendance slips, etc. I try to console myself by thinking okay, I wasn't the permissive loads-of-laughs parent, but at the end of the day I am the one who has really raised Kid up to be whatever it is that she becomes - which is a pretty big accomplishment that the fun parent will have the honor of experiencing.
I understand that many alcoholics consider themselves terminally unique because it helps to justify their drinking - well yes I do drink a lot, but nobody has suffered like I have/nobody understands the stresses I'm under/nobody has as much to deal with as I do, and therefore nobody can criticize me. I also know how dizzying it can be when you realize that the wonderful person you married is being replaced by a basic alcoholic.
I also know how much it sucks to be the responsible parent - the one who's not as much fun as a barrelful of monkeys and who actually keeps track of limits, bedtimes, attendance slips, etc. I try to console myself by thinking okay, I wasn't the permissive loads-of-laughs parent, but at the end of the day I am the one who has really raised Kid up to be whatever it is that she becomes - which is a pretty big accomplishment that the fun parent will have the honor of experiencing.
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but I guess there was a part of me that was thinking that after one or two nights away from us, AH would be completely devastated and knocking on my door, maybe with a boom box and a bouquet of flowers, ready to promise me and Kiddo the world.
that actually is NOT an unreasonable thought or expectation....if we are dealing with normal or non-addiction involved situation. in that normal situation if one partner told the other - look, this thing you do (be it spitting sunflower seeds on the carpet, or using the front yard as a race track for his souped up dirt bike) REALLY has to STOP cuz i can't take it anymore......it's reasonable to assume the other invested party would GET it and say oh ok.....i can make those changes without sacrificing my manhood OR sense of autonomy. i can do that because it is important to me that we both feel safe and understood.
but with addiction it's like setting fire to the dining room table.....every day. it's obvious to everyone but the guy holding the matches.
it could be that your AH just topped out on how far he wanted to go with the Grown Up thing. that really cramps self-indulgence. and addiction is ALL about SELF indulgence. what will happen over time is their world gets smaller and smaller as fewer and fewer tolerate the nonsense and BS. addiction wants to rid their lives of anything and anyone that gets in the way. slowly, insidiously, ruthlessly.
as you stated, being the responsible parent is overwhelming. it's not optional. it's not convenient. we have to do a bit more than know how to get to level 42 of Grand Theft Auto. we don't do it because we HAVE to, we do it because we GET to. we get to be the stable guiding influence in our children's lives. we get to protect them, and watch them grow, give them boundaries, help them learn, stay up late working on the science experiment, or bake those 35 cupcakes they didn't tell us about til 430pm. we get to see them grown into lovely young men and women. and set off out into the world to do great things. or small things.
that actually is NOT an unreasonable thought or expectation....if we are dealing with normal or non-addiction involved situation. in that normal situation if one partner told the other - look, this thing you do (be it spitting sunflower seeds on the carpet, or using the front yard as a race track for his souped up dirt bike) REALLY has to STOP cuz i can't take it anymore......it's reasonable to assume the other invested party would GET it and say oh ok.....i can make those changes without sacrificing my manhood OR sense of autonomy. i can do that because it is important to me that we both feel safe and understood.
but with addiction it's like setting fire to the dining room table.....every day. it's obvious to everyone but the guy holding the matches.
it could be that your AH just topped out on how far he wanted to go with the Grown Up thing. that really cramps self-indulgence. and addiction is ALL about SELF indulgence. what will happen over time is their world gets smaller and smaller as fewer and fewer tolerate the nonsense and BS. addiction wants to rid their lives of anything and anyone that gets in the way. slowly, insidiously, ruthlessly.
as you stated, being the responsible parent is overwhelming. it's not optional. it's not convenient. we have to do a bit more than know how to get to level 42 of Grand Theft Auto. we don't do it because we HAVE to, we do it because we GET to. we get to be the stable guiding influence in our children's lives. we get to protect them, and watch them grow, give them boundaries, help them learn, stay up late working on the science experiment, or bake those 35 cupcakes they didn't tell us about til 430pm. we get to see them grown into lovely young men and women. and set off out into the world to do great things. or small things.
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Anvil... yes, exactly!! Being the ‘responsible’ parent is overwhelming, but it is a priceless gift I’ve been blessed with. My son is my whole heart, and while I know that I fail daily, every decision I make is with his best interest at heart. I think you’re 100% right about AH topping out on the whole adulting thing, honestly. When Kiddo was smaller AH was an amazing father and was there for all of it, the fun and the not so fun. As Kiddo has gotten older and more self-sufficient, it’s almost as if AH sees him more as a peer now or something. Kiddo is very mature for his age, but he is still a ten year old boy who needs a strong adult influence. He needs consistency, and boundaries, and guidance... someone to set the course for him and help him learn to navigate it. That’s actually one of the main things that finally helped me to say ‘enough’. Our routine at home completely orbited around AH and his drinking.
And Sasha, I think you are spot on about the ‘terminal uniqueness’. AH would always bring up how beer was medicine, and how he spends so much of his time riddled with anxiety and beer is the only thing that helps him relax. Through the years I have watched his ability to cope with any type of stressor almost completely vanish. If he is tired, he’s not just tired, he’s exhausted. If he’s hurting, it’s apocalyptic and no one understands how bad it is. As our child has gotten older, the focus has shifted completely from “how to I show my son how to react to this situation?” to “I can’t handle this situation and that takes precedence over everything else.” And yes, it is completely blitzkrieging me to realize that my loving, kind, wonderful husband is being replaced by Alcoholic v1.0.
And Sasha, I think you are spot on about the ‘terminal uniqueness’. AH would always bring up how beer was medicine, and how he spends so much of his time riddled with anxiety and beer is the only thing that helps him relax. Through the years I have watched his ability to cope with any type of stressor almost completely vanish. If he is tired, he’s not just tired, he’s exhausted. If he’s hurting, it’s apocalyptic and no one understands how bad it is. As our child has gotten older, the focus has shifted completely from “how to I show my son how to react to this situation?” to “I can’t handle this situation and that takes precedence over everything else.” And yes, it is completely blitzkrieging me to realize that my loving, kind, wonderful husband is being replaced by Alcoholic v1.0.
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