Perspective is everything
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
fwn…...I get it that you have a burning desire to know what the future holds for you and your family, in regards to alcoholism.....you want security and to be able to get this burden off of your mental back....
That is normal and human, I think....who wouldn't want that for their marriage and with a young, growing family.....?
Safety and security is a basic fundamental for a normal and happy family existence.....
Oh, if we could have some gurantees in our life...at least, about the important stuff!
but, we don't get any....just like we don't get any warranties when we bring a baby home from the hospital....
About the program he is in...I don't know any way that you can know what they are presenting to the clients unless you actually see their program....and, I can't think of any way of you doing that....
There ae so many kinds of programs....For example,,,one time, a while back, I ran some meetings for the program that all of the DUI folks were court ordered to attend...to get their licenses back. (it was on the side and I was trying to save some extra money). ***The goal of that program was NOT on abstainence...but, to prevent "drunk driving". As long as the clients didn't get into a car drunk...that was considered a "success" by that program. the clients were required to attend a certain number of AA meetings...to see what it was like. And, the subject of "alcoholism" was mentioned...and they were informed that a definite alcoholic could never safely take a single drink....
But, that was not the focus of the program.
On the other hand, I have been the co-ordinator of alcoholism program where absolute abstainence..for a lifetime....was the absolute goal....It was an intensive and well monitored program.....
AA and the principles were an integral part of that program....
So, yeah...there can be a big difference between programs...and, one would have to examine each program with discerning eye, to know what the differences are....
I don't think you are going to get any answers that will satisfy you...give you the security that you are seeking....No matter if you did know what a program is presenting....you can't know what is going on in your husband's head....aside from what you can surmise by watching actions....
right now, there is likely a war going on in his head....24/7....
It is still sooo early.
I think that you are going to have to trust yourself....trust that you will face the future and do what is best for you and your kids....no matter how it unfolds....
(here comes the Serenity Prayer)….
One think that I can tell you, for sure,,,,and, that I have learned, the hard way...
Too Much future tripping can drive you Krazy….fears are not necessarily facts....
I found it best to l ive in small segments of time....and, to stay in the present....especially when feeling overwhelmed by fears.....
That is normal and human, I think....who wouldn't want that for their marriage and with a young, growing family.....?
Safety and security is a basic fundamental for a normal and happy family existence.....
Oh, if we could have some gurantees in our life...at least, about the important stuff!
but, we don't get any....just like we don't get any warranties when we bring a baby home from the hospital....
About the program he is in...I don't know any way that you can know what they are presenting to the clients unless you actually see their program....and, I can't think of any way of you doing that....
There ae so many kinds of programs....For example,,,one time, a while back, I ran some meetings for the program that all of the DUI folks were court ordered to attend...to get their licenses back. (it was on the side and I was trying to save some extra money). ***The goal of that program was NOT on abstainence...but, to prevent "drunk driving". As long as the clients didn't get into a car drunk...that was considered a "success" by that program. the clients were required to attend a certain number of AA meetings...to see what it was like. And, the subject of "alcoholism" was mentioned...and they were informed that a definite alcoholic could never safely take a single drink....
But, that was not the focus of the program.
On the other hand, I have been the co-ordinator of alcoholism program where absolute abstainence..for a lifetime....was the absolute goal....It was an intensive and well monitored program.....
AA and the principles were an integral part of that program....
So, yeah...there can be a big difference between programs...and, one would have to examine each program with discerning eye, to know what the differences are....
I don't think you are going to get any answers that will satisfy you...give you the security that you are seeking....No matter if you did know what a program is presenting....you can't know what is going on in your husband's head....aside from what you can surmise by watching actions....
right now, there is likely a war going on in his head....24/7....
It is still sooo early.
I think that you are going to have to trust yourself....trust that you will face the future and do what is best for you and your kids....no matter how it unfolds....
(here comes the Serenity Prayer)….
One think that I can tell you, for sure,,,,and, that I have learned, the hard way...
Too Much future tripping can drive you Krazy….fears are not necessarily facts....
I found it best to l ive in small segments of time....and, to stay in the present....especially when feeling overwhelmed by fears.....
Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 821
Originally Posted by Hawkeye13 
FA, your are spot on in that early recovery is a hard time, and intentions may be fulfilled or not, but I disagree that the OP should just wait around in limbo walking on eggs for him to only later let her know moderation was his plan all along.
Hence, the phrase at the beginning of every AlAnon meeting: "We, too, were lonely and frustrated, but in Al-Anon we discover that no situation is really hopeless and that it is possible for us to find contentment, and even happiness, whether the alcoholic is still drinking or not." Nobody ever has to wait around in limbo or walk on eggshells, waiting for someone else to come through. It's just not necessary to live that way. If someone is, (and I have been that someone plenty of times,) there is a lot that we can do about it, but nothing good comes of asking the alcoholic (especially in early recovery) what s/he intends. Not drinking today is really all that any alcoholic can honestly say about intentions. If we're insecure about that, the alcoholic isn't in a position to give us security. We've got to find that for ourselves.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,424
In post #24, the OP states she feels as though she is walking on eggshells.
I'm sorry if my post implied you said that--I was just responding to the context of the conversation as a whole.
But that's why I think that getting some idea of her AH's initial goals for sobriety will help her make her best decision whether to stay or get some distance from the day-to-day anxiety of early sobriety.
FA, I think you are an outstanding example of what Al Anon can do when one works the program and finds recovery, but if one isn't there yet, and is in the midst of a highly stressful situation in advanced pregnancy, the tactics may need to be a bit more short term for immediate relief.
I'm sorry if my post implied you said that--I was just responding to the context of the conversation as a whole.
But that's why I think that getting some idea of her AH's initial goals for sobriety will help her make her best decision whether to stay or get some distance from the day-to-day anxiety of early sobriety.
FA, I think you are an outstanding example of what Al Anon can do when one works the program and finds recovery, but if one isn't there yet, and is in the midst of a highly stressful situation in advanced pregnancy, the tactics may need to be a bit more short term for immediate relief.
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Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 821
Originally Posted by Hawkeye13
...if one isn't there yet, and is in the midst of a highly stressful situation in advanced pregnancy, the tactics may need to be a bit more short term for immediate relief.
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
dandylion's post (#41) is excellent. It's plain you want security, and moreover you want security from him. It's understandable, given your circumstances.
It just isn't something one can reasonably suspect from someone in early recovery...and your post calls into question whether he is even in that.
There will never be any guarantees when it comes to addiction.
It just isn't something one can reasonably suspect from someone in early recovery...and your post calls into question whether he is even in that.
There will never be any guarantees when it comes to addiction.
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,899
You will drive yourself insane focusing on whether or not he is drinking and then confronting him about it. You know what you know and you don't have to convince him you know. You know he will lie about it. I think that is where you are tripping up...making sure he knows that you know. Totally unnecessary as far as your boundaries go.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
considering how much and how often he is still actively drinking, i'd say we can take that "recovery" word off the table...........
he's not like a pan of jiffy pop where you just have to keep swirling while the burner gets hot and then suddenly things start jumping around and happening!!! what you have shared of his words/statements and actions sound nowhere near in the realm of someone knocked on their butt by their addiction and embracing Step 1 - We admitted we were powerless of alcohol/addiction, and that our lives had become unmanageable. he is still way too full himself, too willing to lie, sneak, hide, protect his drinking, and way way too comfy living in pretend land with a house and a wife, two kids with one on the way. this could go on for years, decades.
he's not like a pan of jiffy pop where you just have to keep swirling while the burner gets hot and then suddenly things start jumping around and happening!!! what you have shared of his words/statements and actions sound nowhere near in the realm of someone knocked on their butt by their addiction and embracing Step 1 - We admitted we were powerless of alcohol/addiction, and that our lives had become unmanageable. he is still way too full himself, too willing to lie, sneak, hide, protect his drinking, and way way too comfy living in pretend land with a house and a wife, two kids with one on the way. this could go on for years, decades.
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 534
FWN said:" I haven't asked much about the outpatient program other than 'how was it' and let him tell me what he wants to tell me. So far it sounds like he's 1 of 4 in a group. They've talked about coping mechanisms and ways to better yourself. He asked me last night if I had any thoughts on ways he can better himself... I don't know if I should let him figure this out on his own, or what. The first thing that always comes to mind for me is exercise and eating right. He's trying to eat right so that's something. He's talked a couple of times about the importance of keeping his hands busy in the evening, and trying to break the association between work in the garage and drinking a beer. And the association between relaxing and drinking. He says his biggest problem over the years is that he's gotten into this habit of coming home after work and requiring a drink to relax and he thinks that's where his problem stems from.
As far as coping mechanisms and ways to better yourself, what else do you guys think? He's taken up baseball with the boys recently, we're going on hour long family walks in the mornings on the weekend. I've been cooking healthy meals in the evening with him helping or playing with the boys. Not sure what else I can suggest, glad he's asked but I've come up empty."
You are doing great. Being supportive yet not enabling him.
He sounds like me....I got into a habit of drinking with The Spouse every night. It's how we relaxed, caught up on stuff, etc.
Except, my body couldn't handle it and I truly almost died, went into a 30 day rehab and am clinging onto sobriety like crazy. Spouse still drinks. That's hard, but I'm learning I can't control that and most importantly, I can't sneak drinks.
One thing that might help him is, during those afternoons or Saturdays by the pool, is to mix it up. The walks are great!
"Replace a drink with a drink" is what they told us at rehab so I would make myself a juice and soda water. It helped with the HABIT of reading or watching TV and reaching for a drink.
Kind of like smokers who carry a pencil in their hands at first.
Maybe, since he associates the garage with beer, he doesn't work in the garage for a while.
Don't worry about his weight now. Sugar helped me a lot. I gained 10 lbs. but now have lost 20 and Spouse and I work out 3-4 times a week together.
I'd cut out pool parties too unless there is ZERO alcohol around.
I'm on both sides of this. I feel for both of you.
Hugs, hugs, hugs!
As far as coping mechanisms and ways to better yourself, what else do you guys think? He's taken up baseball with the boys recently, we're going on hour long family walks in the mornings on the weekend. I've been cooking healthy meals in the evening with him helping or playing with the boys. Not sure what else I can suggest, glad he's asked but I've come up empty."
You are doing great. Being supportive yet not enabling him.
He sounds like me....I got into a habit of drinking with The Spouse every night. It's how we relaxed, caught up on stuff, etc.
Except, my body couldn't handle it and I truly almost died, went into a 30 day rehab and am clinging onto sobriety like crazy. Spouse still drinks. That's hard, but I'm learning I can't control that and most importantly, I can't sneak drinks.
One thing that might help him is, during those afternoons or Saturdays by the pool, is to mix it up. The walks are great!
"Replace a drink with a drink" is what they told us at rehab so I would make myself a juice and soda water. It helped with the HABIT of reading or watching TV and reaching for a drink.
Kind of like smokers who carry a pencil in their hands at first.
Maybe, since he associates the garage with beer, he doesn't work in the garage for a while.
Don't worry about his weight now. Sugar helped me a lot. I gained 10 lbs. but now have lost 20 and Spouse and I work out 3-4 times a week together.
I'd cut out pool parties too unless there is ZERO alcohol around.
I'm on both sides of this. I feel for both of you.
Hugs, hugs, hugs!
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Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
Originally Posted by Hawkeye13
FA, I think you are an outstanding example of what Al Anon can do when one works the program and finds recovery, but if one isn't there yet, and is in the midst of a highly stressful situation in advanced pregnancy, the tactics may need to be a bit more short term for immediate relief.
I realize it's impossible to stop ruminating over it all in our minds overnight just because we want to, just because we know it's healthier if we do. We really have to move incrementally - baby-steps, right?
dandy's points about safety & security are spot-on, fwn. If you sit back & think about what those things mean to you & in what ways you feel vulnerable about them, it'll help you figure out what to "fix" on your side. How can you replace/redefine that vulnerability so that you feel more in control? With the baby coming, I could totally see the need for short-term & long-term steps.
Right now, it sounds like you're white-knuckling through this, waiting to let him lead so you can follow. I could be over-interpreting here, so apologies if I'm way off base... if not though, it's worth examining.
I also think you might get a lot out of reading in the Newcomer's & Alcoholism forums here at SR for a better idea of what goes on in the minds of those in or considering recovery vs talking to your husband. It can really help to widen your view of addiction & get educated while de-personalizing it a bit because it's not "your" story.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 316
Thank you everyone for the responses! You have no idea how valuable your insight is, you help me see things from a different point of view instead of me being stuck in my head.
I did end up bringing this up to him, asking what his intentions were and his ultimate goal in this outpatient program. His response was he is going into this outpatient program open minded, with the intention not to drink for the 2 months he's in it while learning more about alcoholism and himself. He says he'd love to learn to moderate but at this point he's not sure that's possible for him. He says he's unsure if he can even make it these 2 months without drinking (alluding to him trying to prove something to himself here) and if he could that he'd want to evaluate the possibility of trying to moderate. I told him very clearly that I'm not open to that solution and that he'd be choosing to split off from the family if he went that route. I know he cannot moderate, it's all he's ever tried to prove to me and it always ends up in failure. I couldn't believe the look of surprise in his eyes when I told him that... as if he had never heard it before. He got a little upset and said 'well it sounds like you'd be the one deciding to break up our family' and I very clearly told him I'd simply be choosing NOT to live with an AH.
I ended up reading him my entire 'journal' so to speak because he was trying to convince me our who marriage hasn't been that bad. When I was done reading it to him, his only comment was that it was clearly one sided trying to tell a single story and that he knows I'm not always miserable and that there have definitely been good times in our relationship. Of course he's not wrong, but the alcoholism clouds the good. There are so many family photos I can look at right this second that have a gray cloud above them from him drinking before or there being some alcohol related incident that upset me.
These past 2 weeks without him drinking have been so wonderful for my emotional well being. I'm not going through this cycle of just complete hate for the person who chose to drink, having to hear and accept his apology hoping he means it, and then be disappointed all over again when I've worked up the ability to act normal again. Do I want to go back to that? NO WAY. I deserve an even keeled emotionally healthy marriage. And for so long that's not what this is. So if he wants to go back there, I'm not going with him. I want to wake up happy each morning, or at least without anger and dread and resentment from whatever alcohol related disappointment we went through the night before.
That's the update. Honestly I'm feeling good no matter which way this sways. I cannot force him to decide not to want to drink when all is said and done. And I don't want to even try. Taking into consideration the logistics, finances, etc. I know we'll be okay either way. And I feel fortunate that that's the case.
I did end up bringing this up to him, asking what his intentions were and his ultimate goal in this outpatient program. His response was he is going into this outpatient program open minded, with the intention not to drink for the 2 months he's in it while learning more about alcoholism and himself. He says he'd love to learn to moderate but at this point he's not sure that's possible for him. He says he's unsure if he can even make it these 2 months without drinking (alluding to him trying to prove something to himself here) and if he could that he'd want to evaluate the possibility of trying to moderate. I told him very clearly that I'm not open to that solution and that he'd be choosing to split off from the family if he went that route. I know he cannot moderate, it's all he's ever tried to prove to me and it always ends up in failure. I couldn't believe the look of surprise in his eyes when I told him that... as if he had never heard it before. He got a little upset and said 'well it sounds like you'd be the one deciding to break up our family' and I very clearly told him I'd simply be choosing NOT to live with an AH.
I ended up reading him my entire 'journal' so to speak because he was trying to convince me our who marriage hasn't been that bad. When I was done reading it to him, his only comment was that it was clearly one sided trying to tell a single story and that he knows I'm not always miserable and that there have definitely been good times in our relationship. Of course he's not wrong, but the alcoholism clouds the good. There are so many family photos I can look at right this second that have a gray cloud above them from him drinking before or there being some alcohol related incident that upset me.
These past 2 weeks without him drinking have been so wonderful for my emotional well being. I'm not going through this cycle of just complete hate for the person who chose to drink, having to hear and accept his apology hoping he means it, and then be disappointed all over again when I've worked up the ability to act normal again. Do I want to go back to that? NO WAY. I deserve an even keeled emotionally healthy marriage. And for so long that's not what this is. So if he wants to go back there, I'm not going with him. I want to wake up happy each morning, or at least without anger and dread and resentment from whatever alcohol related disappointment we went through the night before.
That's the update. Honestly I'm feeling good no matter which way this sways. I cannot force him to decide not to want to drink when all is said and done. And I don't want to even try. Taking into consideration the logistics, finances, etc. I know we'll be okay either way. And I feel fortunate that that's the case.
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