Self esteem

Old 07-26-2019, 07:28 PM
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Self esteem

when my AH came back from treatment today, he told me they asked him his goals. He said he wanted to work on coping skills and building his self esteem. I said nothing, even tho he asked my opinion. But what I think he should be working in is humility ....he is an arrogant you know what. More self esteem and he will go from monster to more monster. He just wants some of this guilt and shame to leave him...I think it’s thru humility he thinks it’s thru self esteem. Self esteem for what? For being a liar? For being a heartbreak? I’m staying out of it and working my own step, I’m powerless over people places and things...
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Old 07-26-2019, 09:06 PM
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Hi Dazed, I'll say that both of you are right. Let's talk about self-esteem first. Most people lacking in this tend to try to make themselves feel better about themselves by making someone feel like they are lesser. Now if a person that is lacking self esteem tends to feel better about themselves then they no longer need to try to put another beneath them.

Humility means a modest or low view of ones own importance.

To me they are intertwined. If you are feeling better about yourself, then you are no longer looking at your own importance and you can see and hear others in your life.

Just keep taking care of yourself and do what you need to do so that you can be happy. He can say whatever he wants to, but until he shows actions, there really isn't anything to think about.

(((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))
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Old 07-26-2019, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Dazedandconfus View Post
I’m staying out of it and working my own step, I’m powerless over people places and things...
Good for you Dazed. Keep your head down and your brain focused on your own program. More will be revealed with time.
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Old 07-26-2019, 11:02 PM
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Underneath any addiction can be a lot of shame. Whether that's an addiction to food, heroin or gambling. When you live with shame for years, when you berate yourself constantly it can certainly do a job on your self esteem, so he's probably right that it would be a solid goal.

You probably don't really know why he drinks, it may not even be something he understands yet.

You are powerless over his addiction. I know you know that logically but probably are still struggling with it emotionally? I think that's pretty normal, it's early days and you are really hurt.

It may be best to let him know you would prefer not to discuss it. Say what you mean just don't say it mean? Him discussing it with you at this point probably just causes resentment.

Hang in there.
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Old 07-27-2019, 04:03 AM
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Originally Posted by trailmix View Post
Underneath any addiction can be a lot of shame. Whether that's an addiction to food, heroin or gambling. When you live with shame for years, when you berate yourself constantly it can certainly do a job on your self esteem, so he's probably right that it would be a solid goal.

You probably don't really know why he drinks, it may not even be something he understands yet.

You are powerless over his addiction. I know you know that logically but probably are still struggling with it emotionally? I think that's pretty normal, it's early days and you are really hurt.

It may be best to let him know you would prefer not to discuss it. Say what you mean just don't say it mean? Him discussing it with you at this point probably just causes resentment.

Hang in there.
thank you. I get the say what you mean thing but at this point I feel like he can take his resentments and shove it. I have my own resentments. He’s the one that has to talk about alcohol all the time: drinking it, recovering from it, hiding it, buying it, drinking it, cleaning up after it...he’s all about alcohol. It’s a shame, inside and out. I get it, he says “I have a disease” oh boo freaking hoo, he’s had so much love, chances and support to deal with his “disease”. He just loves alcohol and to drink. Resentments, yeah I have them too. He’s a big fat lying baby who needs his bottle. And he will not take me down with his sinking pathetic “poor me” ship.
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Old 07-27-2019, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Dazedandconfus View Post
... I feel like he can take his resentments and shove it. I have my own resentments.
With this, you are most assuredly pointed in the right direction.

This is a huge factor in the benefit of both partners having their own programs. There's a myth that good partners should be able to share everything and that's just not so. Good partners (even good separated or divorced partners) allow each other to be different. The only way to get to a more peaceful place with this kind of allowing is to not focus on what we think the other person needs and to work our own wellness program. It can be challenging when the whole tenor of our relationship has been to be involved with each other's emotional business (to the point of enmeshment for many of us.) This is why most AlAnon meetings begin with the statement "In Al-Anon we discover that no situation is really hopeless and that it is possible for us to find contentment and even happiness, whether the alcoholic is still drinking or not." Focusing on our own resentments and allowing the alcoholic to focus on his own resentments is an enormous healing step, whether the relationship continues on as spouses or exes or friends. Focusing on our own resentments is what we do for ourselves and for our own healing, no matter what the alcoholic is choosing to do or think.
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Old 07-27-2019, 06:33 AM
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Recovery is a difficult transition in a relationship for so many reasons.

You are on the right path with your own recovery though My RAH
(9 months) is very involved in AA and I in alanon. I don't discuss much
with him about his struggles and I see how much better it is for him to
bring it to meetings or his sponsor. I detached in the beginning and
used the medium chill technique. I have come to believe the "poor
me" is just a facet of the "look at me, look at me" and all the chaos
and drama alcoholics seems to require in their lives- and need to
let go of. The folks at his meetings will cut through that cr-- much
better than I ever could or would want to. The same way I can
cut through my cr-- at alanon.
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Old 07-27-2019, 07:14 AM
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A while back I read this article about self esteem vs self respect, but I can’t seem to find the specific one I’m thinking of. But they talked about how self respect is about what you do/ your actions, and if you focus on that, you will naturally have self esteem because you are trying to be a good person and do the right thing.

They did talk about that self esteem for no reason thing, like if you’re being an a**hole, yet everyone is telling you how wonderful you are, or you’re telling yourself how wonderful you are, and how just creates a headache for everyone. A**holes do actually usually have high self esteem, as do criminals (despite what they thought they were going to find when they first started doing studies on that!).

No clue about your person, but it sounds to me like you are respecting yourself by doing what’s right for you and working on your own stuff. I think if you have dignity and self respect, and good boundaries, you can create distance from the people who aren’t treating you well, and also it becomes easier to not let unhealthy people in to begin with. Sounds to me like you are on a good path .
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Old 07-27-2019, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by pdm22 View Post
A while back I read this article about self esteem vs self respect, but I can’t seem to find the specific one I’m thinking of. But they talked about how self respect is about what you do/ your actions, and if you focus on that, you will naturally have self esteem because you are trying to be a good person and do the right thing.

They did talk about that self esteem for no reason thing, like if you’re being an a**hole, yet everyone is telling you how wonderful you are, or you’re telling yourself how wonderful you are, and how just creates a headache for everyone. A**holes do actually usually have high self esteem, as do criminals (despite what they thought they were going to find when they first started doing studies on that!).

No clue about your person, but it sounds to me like you are respecting yourself by doing what’s right for you and working on your own stuff. I think if you have dignity and self respect, and good boundaries, you can create distance from the people who aren’t treating you well, and also it becomes easier to not let unhealthy people in to begin with. Sounds to me like you are on a good path .
thank you. This past year I started on a journey of self respect and parenting my inner child who has so many wounds. Because of that a lot of “friends” dropped away; it was the final hoo ha with my AH. Even tho I’m going thru with the divorce, a part of me hopes he will stay in recovery and we can remain friends. I’m not going to put myself or my feelings second any more. I matter, if to no one else but me. Big hugs.
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Old 07-27-2019, 08:10 AM
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pdm22...….regarding your article about self esteem vs. self respect....I can remember reading that same thing in a psychology textbook,in the section on adolescent development, quite a while back......The example that it gave was "school-yard bullies". That they often do have a very favorable opinion of themselves...and, seem to revel in that...
I remember that I was quite surprised to learn that!
It does sound counter-intuitive.....
LOl...I, now, feel motivated to go digging for more on that subject.....
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Old 07-27-2019, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by dandylion View Post
pdm22...….regarding your article about self esteem vs. self respect....I can remember reading that same thing in a psychology textbook,in the section on adolescent development, quite a while back......The example that it gave was "school-yard bullies". That they often do have a very favorable opinion of themselves...and, seem to revel in that...
I remember that I was quite surprised to learn that!
It does sound counter-intuitive.....
LOl...I, now, feel motivated to go digging for more on that subject.....
Yup, exactly like that! I don’t know why I can’t seem to find the exact articles I’m thinking of at the moment, but there was also one I read about the self esteem movement in the US (started in 1986), and how they did some global studies later. They found that American teenagers had the highest self esteem regarding their math scores, even though they scored the worst on the tests compared to kids from other countries. Eeeek...and how damaging that can be in the real world, because it really is important to have an accurate assessment of your abilities (coupled with self compassion though).

Stay on your own side of the street and focus on your own character flaws and all of that, but I think we probably all have known someone who was either raised like this, or was just maybe naturally that way, who was basically grandiose for no reason, and it’s no fun when you’re side by side with someone like that at work or something..

(This isn’t it, but this was an interesting one I came across when I was trying to find those articles:

https://filipinofreethinkers.org/201...o-be-assholes/ )
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Old 07-27-2019, 09:34 AM
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pdm22......I have a great example of curiously misplaced self esteem.....
If you have ever seen singing talent shows...like "American Idol", or, "X Factor"....and seen some of the auditions....
Some of the audition wannabes are just so terrifying awful...by any standard...and, are, often enraged....enraged....when they are told that they "are not a good fit"...
The contestant and their family and friends seem so shocked that they were not on the fast track to stardom. sometimes, the judges ask them about who told them that they were good singers...and, they assure the judges that ALL of their friends and family have assure the m that they are "fabulous".
One will, often, see a parent or friend telling the crest-fallen contestant that...."Don't worry...we can come back next year...these judges don't know what they are talking about....you are going to make it!"....
Actually, you can go to facebook and type in "bad voice auditions"...and, you can find a tons of these unbelievable auditions...lol....

I suppose that we tend to believe what significant people tell us about ourselves...…!?
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Old 07-27-2019, 09:45 AM
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Its like the pendulum has swung the other way, and it’s crippling in a different sort of way :/

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...herapy/308555/


This was the article I was originally thinking of, that talks about self esteem vs self respect, that I personally found to be helpful:


https://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/selfrespect.htm
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Old 07-27-2019, 10:54 AM
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pdm….just read the first link...about implicit and explicit self esteem....
Very thought provoking.....

Now...on to the next ones...lol....
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Old 07-27-2019, 01:35 PM
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pdm…...o.k. Just read your last 2 links. Both articles are very thought provoking, also.
The one on parents who are obsessed with keeping their kids happy, all of the time, is an article that the parents of growing children would, especially, appreciate....

***A thought related to self esteem---I know we are not allowed to talk about politics, here....but, in general, and with the airwaves filled with the political candidates, these days---I often wonder just what kind of self esteem it takes to run for President?! To have the kahunas to run for the most powerful and visible office, in the World....and, to stand up and tell all people that "I am the BEST person for this job"...(and, mean it)….I just cannot imagine....lol.....
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Old 07-27-2019, 01:52 PM
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Pdm…..along these lines.....I recommend, to you, one of the most thought provoking books that I have ever read on the subject....(it covers self esteem and more)…..It is very scholarly and thoroughly researched book....and, hit the psychology world like a bomb.....It was a runner-up for the Pulitzer Prize.....
I think you would enjoy it....
lOL….like everything else, I read it when my children were already grown up!....sigh....
It would be fascinating reading for anyone who is raising children, I think.....and, especially for the reason that everything that happens with our children doesn't and shouldn't be laid on the mother (or parents) alone....there is a LOT more, to it....

the title is "The Nurture Assumption--Why Children Turn Out The Way That They Do"....by Judith Rich Harris....
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Old 07-27-2019, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Dazedandconfus View Post

thank you. I get the say what you mean thing but at this point I feel like he can take his resentments and shove it. I have my own resentments. He’s the one that has to talk about alcohol all the time: drinking it, recovering from it, hiding it, buying it, drinking it, cleaning up after it...he’s all about alcohol. It’s a shame, inside and out. I get it, he says “I have a disease” oh boo freaking hoo, he’s had so much love, chances and support to deal with his “disease”. He just loves alcohol and to drink. Resentments, yeah I have them too. He’s a big fat lying baby who needs his bottle. And he will not take me down with his sinking pathetic “poor me” ship.
What I posted wasn't really clear, I'm not concerned with his resentments either lol

I meant yours, only because it doesn't serve a good purpose for you, nothing more.
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Old 07-27-2019, 02:44 PM
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I get it, he says “I have a disease”
Your AH tossing this statement out in light of the situation reeks of misunderstanding on his part. When I admit the disease of alcoholism, I'm not using it as an excuse for my behavior but rather an acknowledgement that I have a condition that needs to be dealt with, treated on a day to day basis. It's not to be used as justification for being a selfish tool. It's meant to be positive motivation for deep, honest and permanent change. It's pretty obvious your AH isn't grasping that concept. That being said, kudos to you for not falling for his "poor me"" bulls**t. Practicing alcoholics love to pull that card out. Don't fall for it. Hugs.
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Old 07-27-2019, 03:39 PM
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No, he hasn't got it yet, but then again he has only been seeking "recovery" for about 15 minutes.
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Old 07-27-2019, 03:57 PM
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I like his goals. I think that when we love someone we can support their personal goals and take care of ourselves at the same time. With making self care number one. There are many paths to recovery , I don’t think , and based on research I’m aware of, piling extra shame and self-contempt on top of what’s already there is not particularly helpful.
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