why do they forget us so easily?
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if i got help when i NEEDED help, i would have gotten it when i took my first drink at 13. help doesnt work when its NEEDED for an alkie.shove it down their throats, lock em up with nothing but help around em and it wont help. it has to be WANTED,which is why i didnt get sober until i was 36.
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Honestly... sometimes the more I analyze alcoholism & addiction... the more I go crazy! It’s just plain insanity to me... so frustrating... agree, “live & let live”!!! Easier said than done when you’re up close & personal with chaos... or even reflecting back on the insanity that once controlled your life. I’m still healing... it’s only been a few months of NC but yeah I do often wonder... did she really love me? Does she miss me? Then again, she was my very first love so I think I’d be thinking that even if she wasn’t an alcoholic. But what they think doesn’t really matter in the end... hard to say because we all look for validation. Everyone wants to feel and be loved. Everyone wants to know their life mattered, to someone. It’s human nature. Unfortunately it’s nearly impossible to find any truth, amongst lies... order, within chaos... peace, within madness. Much love to everyone today...
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Originally Posted by LifeChangeNYC 
Honestly... sometimes the more I analyze alcoholism & addiction... the more I go crazy! It’s just plain insanity to me... so frustrating... agree, “live & let live”!!! Easier said than done when you’re up close & personal with chaos... or even reflecting back on the insanity that once controlled your life. I’m still healing... it’s only been a few months of NC but yeah I do often wonder... did she really love me? Does she miss me? Then again, she was my very first love so I think I’d be thinking that even if she wasn’t an alcoholic. But what they think doesn’t really matter in the end... hard to say because we all look for validation. Everyone wants to feel and be loved. Everyone wants to know their life mattered, to someone. It’s human nature. Unfortunately it’s nearly impossible to find any truth, amongst lies... order, within chaos... peace, within madness. Much love to everyone today...
If only they could somehow be honest from day one and say how they are and what their main LOVE is (first, second and for many of them last too, i suppose), none of us would even have these issues to begin with!?
Now that I think of it, my X fiance even metioned something at the beginning, such as 'i like to have a drink every now and then' or somewhere along those lines. I suppose that is what he called honesty. But of course, I didnt have a clue what that meant at that time.
It would be so nice if they could just stay completely SINGLE then, and not involve decent people in their chaos. Its the honesty thing alright tho, and its whats missing with people in active addiction. As to be honest with others, you have to first be honest with yourself. And we all know thats not whats 'on the menu' for them.
Btw, Im just thinking how all the people in this forum have an amazing writing skills lol. We should all form some group or something along those lines, write a few 'forum books' on the subject etc.
I am in awe with insights and all the awesomeness that goes on here- seriously!!
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If someone is in a relationship with you, it's your life, too--yes, BUT. You choose to be there. A healthy response to a partner who is engaging in behavior with consequences that affect you too is to get out of the relationship, not to stay in and try to change the other person into someone who doesn't do those things.
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TOTALLY AGREE again, SparkleKitty. 
But you have to figure out the problem first, and then get out. As soon as I was SURE what the problem was, I did get out. However, it took some real time, and I wasnt aware of lot of what was going on behind the scenes, so to speak. Also, I didnt want to accuse anyone of anything nor label them before IM 100 percent sure. As I dont think that would be fair either. SO... when I did get out finally, that doesnt mean I didnt get emotionally involved in the meantime. Which IS a hard pill to swallow alright, and which is why im in this forum now too- to just try to mourn the lost relationship that turned out to be a disaster.
But you have to figure out the problem first, and then get out. As soon as I was SURE what the problem was, I did get out. However, it took some real time, and I wasnt aware of lot of what was going on behind the scenes, so to speak. Also, I didnt want to accuse anyone of anything nor label them before IM 100 percent sure. As I dont think that would be fair either. SO... when I did get out finally, that doesnt mean I didnt get emotionally involved in the meantime. Which IS a hard pill to swallow alright, and which is why im in this forum now too- to just try to mourn the lost relationship that turned out to be a disaster.
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Originally Posted by fionamccarthy
So im wondering- do they think about us at all, or are they ready immediately to move on and find the next 'victim' so to speak!?
In my experience (as a drunk, not an FoF), when I left or was kicked out, I moved on to something new as fast as possible and drowned all thoughts of past loves or dreams in liquor or drugs. To remember would mean to look at myself -- and I hated myself -- though it mightn't look so from the outside. The more love others had offered me, the scarier it was, and the faster I ran towards any other distraction.
Did I ever think about the lovers I left behind? Not if I could possibly help it.
I'm sorry.
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Join Date: Apr 2018
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Not sure if I missed one of your threads, but how do you know he’s doing great and not thinking about you?
Is it possible you might be doing some mind reading/ negative mind reading (thinking you know what someone else is feeling or thinking, without getting the information directly from them). And furthermore, assuming the worst (the person doesn’t care or think about me).
If that’s not the case, and you’re getting information from him, or about him through someone else (or eeek.. social media), is it possible to try to limit or eliminate your exposure to that?
Anyways, I know when I find myself doing that (about anything), it helps to stop and examine, how do I really know? Oftentimes the answer is I just don’t..
The mind reading/ negative mind reading is one of thought processes examined in CBT Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, by the way..
Is it possible you might be doing some mind reading/ negative mind reading (thinking you know what someone else is feeling or thinking, without getting the information directly from them). And furthermore, assuming the worst (the person doesn’t care or think about me).
If that’s not the case, and you’re getting information from him, or about him through someone else (or eeek.. social media), is it possible to try to limit or eliminate your exposure to that?
Anyways, I know when I find myself doing that (about anything), it helps to stop and examine, how do I really know? Oftentimes the answer is I just don’t..
The mind reading/ negative mind reading is one of thought processes examined in CBT Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, by the way..
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Join Date: Apr 2019
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“A healthy response to a partner who is engaging in behavior with consequences that affect you too is to get out of the relationship...”
Yes, and no... in my opinion. It’s not like all relationships don’t have a level of insanity or difficulty to them. I don’t blame myself, or regret trying to work things out (initially). It’s just knowing when enough is ENOUGH.
Life is hard. People are complex. Relationships take work. And there’s no cookie cutter definition of how things will evolve... obviously everyone is different.
A few examples... a good friend of mine has a severe eating disorder. Her husband stuck by her side... even though, at times... it was a nightmare. She’s now better and their marriage is rock solid. They openly talk about it... and are so thankful they stuck it out.
My uncle smoked for 25 years and my aunt hated it... but loved him deeply. He eventually stopped. It was unhealthy... for everyone but they are both so thankful they stuck it out as well.
Those are just 2 positive examples in my life. Both relationships were a nightmare at times... but they didn’t leave. They worked on it.
Now I have a long list of other examples of addicts in my life that were horrible... all their relationships failed...
My point is... there are so many factors that make up whether a relationship will succeed or fail. It’s not just the addict. It’s a complex combination of things.
For me... that is why I tried all those times. I loved her harder than anyone... ever in my life. Were there red flags, yes. Did I truly understand addiction, not fully. Do I regret trying, absolutely not. Cause it could have gone the other way.
We may like to say... it’s as simple as... ok, they’re an addict... goodbye! But it’s not that easy, nor should it be.
Yes, and no... in my opinion. It’s not like all relationships don’t have a level of insanity or difficulty to them. I don’t blame myself, or regret trying to work things out (initially). It’s just knowing when enough is ENOUGH.
Life is hard. People are complex. Relationships take work. And there’s no cookie cutter definition of how things will evolve... obviously everyone is different.
A few examples... a good friend of mine has a severe eating disorder. Her husband stuck by her side... even though, at times... it was a nightmare. She’s now better and their marriage is rock solid. They openly talk about it... and are so thankful they stuck it out.
My uncle smoked for 25 years and my aunt hated it... but loved him deeply. He eventually stopped. It was unhealthy... for everyone but they are both so thankful they stuck it out as well.
Those are just 2 positive examples in my life. Both relationships were a nightmare at times... but they didn’t leave. They worked on it.
Now I have a long list of other examples of addicts in my life that were horrible... all their relationships failed...
My point is... there are so many factors that make up whether a relationship will succeed or fail. It’s not just the addict. It’s a complex combination of things.
For me... that is why I tried all those times. I loved her harder than anyone... ever in my life. Were there red flags, yes. Did I truly understand addiction, not fully. Do I regret trying, absolutely not. Cause it could have gone the other way.
We may like to say... it’s as simple as... ok, they’re an addict... goodbye! But it’s not that easy, nor should it be.
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Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 868
Originally Posted by LifeChangeNYC
“A healthy response to a partner who is engaging in behavior with consequences that affect you too is to get out of the relationship...”
Yes, and no... in my opinion. It’s not like all relationships don’t have a level of insanity or difficulty to them. I don’t blame myself, or regret trying to work things out (initially). It’s just knowing when enough is ENOUGH.
Life is hard. People are complex. Relationships take work. And there’s no cookie cutter definition of how things will evolve... obviously everyone is different.
A few examples... a good friend of mine has a severe eating disorder. Her husband stuck by her side... even though, at times... it was a nightmare. She’s now better and their marriage is rock solid. They openly talk about it... and are so thankful they stuck it out.
My uncle smoked for 25 years and my aunt hated it... but loved him deeply. He eventually stopped. It was unhealthy... for everyone but they are both so thankful they stuck it out as well.
Those are just 2 positive examples in my life. Both relationships were a nightmare at times... but they didn’t leave. They worked on it.
Now I have a long list of other examples of addicts in my life that were horrible... all their relationships failed...
My point is... there are so many factors that make up whether a relationship will succeed or fail. It’s not just the addict. It’s a complex combination of things.
For me... that is why I tried all those times. I loved her harder than anyone... ever in my life. Were there red flags, yes. Did I truly understand addiction, not fully. Do I regret trying, absolutely not. Cause it could have gone the other way.
We may like to say... it’s as simple as... ok, they’re an addict... goodbye! But it’s not that easy, nor should it be.
Yes, and no... in my opinion. It’s not like all relationships don’t have a level of insanity or difficulty to them. I don’t blame myself, or regret trying to work things out (initially). It’s just knowing when enough is ENOUGH.
Life is hard. People are complex. Relationships take work. And there’s no cookie cutter definition of how things will evolve... obviously everyone is different.
A few examples... a good friend of mine has a severe eating disorder. Her husband stuck by her side... even though, at times... it was a nightmare. She’s now better and their marriage is rock solid. They openly talk about it... and are so thankful they stuck it out.
My uncle smoked for 25 years and my aunt hated it... but loved him deeply. He eventually stopped. It was unhealthy... for everyone but they are both so thankful they stuck it out as well.
Those are just 2 positive examples in my life. Both relationships were a nightmare at times... but they didn’t leave. They worked on it.
Now I have a long list of other examples of addicts in my life that were horrible... all their relationships failed...
My point is... there are so many factors that make up whether a relationship will succeed or fail. It’s not just the addict. It’s a complex combination of things.
For me... that is why I tried all those times. I loved her harder than anyone... ever in my life. Were there red flags, yes. Did I truly understand addiction, not fully. Do I regret trying, absolutely not. Cause it could have gone the other way.
We may like to say... it’s as simple as... ok, they’re an addict... goodbye! But it’s not that easy, nor should it be.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
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Originally Posted by SparkleKitty
If someone is in a relationship with you, it's your life, too--yes, BUT. You choose to be there. A healthy response to a partner who is engaging in behavior with consequences that affect you too is to get out of the relationship, not to stay in and try to change the other person into someone who doesn't do those things.
I'm glad that in certain cases, like those NYC mentioned, all works out well but there is a price to pay. The 20 years you wait for someone to quit smoking or overcome their eating disorder or depression or whatever the case may be can take a toll for sure, on both people.
How miserable to have someone disapprove of you for 20 years.
Bottom line is, there is no guarantee it will work out either.
Acceptance. If you are going to live with a smoker or a drinker/alcoholic or heck a meth user, the only healthy way to approach it, in my opinion is to accept it.
I think it is disrespectful to expect someone to change because you don't like something about them. Small changes as courtesy, of course, maybe your spouse always leaves the bread bag open, those are easy fixes and ways we get along with living under the same roof. However if you meet an addict and expect and insist they change - that's a huge gamble.
At the end of the day all that matters is that you can deal with it. If you are happy living with an addict I say go for it (truly). Being with an alcoholic/addict is not always the end of a relationship, some people can just get along fine, so why not!
But if you are confused, hurt, bordering on or have PTSD, your self esteem and self worth has been trampled to the ground, your happiness has gone by the wayside, you are being gaslighted and lied to - that's a problem to deal with.
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Join Date: May 2019
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Yes ,I also agree- its certainly not black and white. And I did also have undeniably great times (no doubt about it) with my partner, and we exchanged lot of meaningful moments as well over the years.
And I did love him alright, from the bottom of my heart. But now that I think of it, it was pretty much one way. Even if he did say he loved me on many occasions. And dont get me wrong- not that I regret loving him (I gave something because I believed in it so not needing anything in return)... but what courage2 confirmed in her post above- they cant really love, even if they say they do, as they are not really facing themselves while in active addiction (many of them not even years after). So they instead go from one person to the next (from one distraction to the next) who would at least partially and for some brief moment provide some sort of illusion of connection and real life (that is, until that person realises how serious this issue is and thus cant be in it any longer due to their own health being affected by it etc.) After which they go back to their first love- alcohol! Sad but true....There are always those who do manage to heal fully and get away from it all tho. But no other person can do squat about it-this is what i fully realised alright! It has to be them making that decision.
And I did love him alright, from the bottom of my heart. But now that I think of it, it was pretty much one way. Even if he did say he loved me on many occasions. And dont get me wrong- not that I regret loving him (I gave something because I believed in it so not needing anything in return)... but what courage2 confirmed in her post above- they cant really love, even if they say they do, as they are not really facing themselves while in active addiction (many of them not even years after). So they instead go from one person to the next (from one distraction to the next) who would at least partially and for some brief moment provide some sort of illusion of connection and real life (that is, until that person realises how serious this issue is and thus cant be in it any longer due to their own health being affected by it etc.) After which they go back to their first love- alcohol! Sad but true....There are always those who do manage to heal fully and get away from it all tho. But no other person can do squat about it-this is what i fully realised alright! It has to be them making that decision.
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Originally Posted by fionamccarthy
tomsteve can I ask you, what made you WANT it at the age of 36? Thanks!!
get help or suicide.
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Join Date: May 2019
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tomsteve wow, thats really insightful, thanks a lot for sharing! And I suppose, that only confirms to all us others that no matter what we said or did to support our partners and 'love them' out of their addiction, there is no chance that they could have done it solely based on our help.
They need to face their own deepest shadow I suppose, and only THEY can do that.
They need to face their own deepest shadow I suppose, and only THEY can do that.
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some people do accept the END of something easier than others. it isn't just an addict trait, or because they are heartless, souless scum of the earth bastards. they may care a great deal. they just don't wear it like a hairshirt. they don't take the break up as a shot to the ego, rejection or abandonment....they just accept and agree and move on.
most of the pain felt during a break up is due to NOT accepting what is. not getting far enough thru the grief process to see the other side. to the letting GO part.
i hear a lot in this thread about defending how much a person LOVED the other person. and how that was supposed to fix everything so that they would have exactly what they want exactly how and when they wanted it. that's not love, that's possession. that is wanting to make someone into our own image of what they SHOULD be. never really ever accepting the other AS they are.
sometimes acceptance means letting go. in order for me to really be ok with you being you, i gotta back away and let you be. <<that is love.
most of the pain felt during a break up is due to NOT accepting what is. not getting far enough thru the grief process to see the other side. to the letting GO part.
i hear a lot in this thread about defending how much a person LOVED the other person. and how that was supposed to fix everything so that they would have exactly what they want exactly how and when they wanted it. that's not love, that's possession. that is wanting to make someone into our own image of what they SHOULD be. never really ever accepting the other AS they are.
sometimes acceptance means letting go. in order for me to really be ok with you being you, i gotta back away and let you be. <<that is love.
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Anvil once again, I definitely agree and I believe i get what you're saying.
However, love is not the same as being in a relationship, in my opinion. I think mature relationship is equal give and take, and so, there is nothing shameful in actually EXPECTING for the other person to also invest their time and make certain efforts, and also compromises too (of course) in order for something to work out. I dont believe any relationship can be successful without it. SO, its only normal for people who expect for normal relationships to happen in their lives, to also have certain hopes of working together with another for common goals and have a partner who also puts in actual WORK. Once this is compromised tho (due to addiction), it becomes a disappointment alright. And there is nothing shameful about it either.
I admit- I AM dissapointed at the end of the day. But I do also take my part of the responsibility alright. For like I said, I should have probably moved on earlier, did I have less tolerance for ********, and more respect for my quality time and how i spend it ...so there!
For example in my case, I had truly realistic expectations of both myself and him who i thought is also a mature individual. But I didnt get this right obvisouly...
My point is, while love is certainly unconditional, relationships certainly arent. And they require actual more or less continuous work.....
Thanks a lot for your comments btw-they make all the difference
However, love is not the same as being in a relationship, in my opinion. I think mature relationship is equal give and take, and so, there is nothing shameful in actually EXPECTING for the other person to also invest their time and make certain efforts, and also compromises too (of course) in order for something to work out. I dont believe any relationship can be successful without it. SO, its only normal for people who expect for normal relationships to happen in their lives, to also have certain hopes of working together with another for common goals and have a partner who also puts in actual WORK. Once this is compromised tho (due to addiction), it becomes a disappointment alright. And there is nothing shameful about it either.
I admit- I AM dissapointed at the end of the day. But I do also take my part of the responsibility alright. For like I said, I should have probably moved on earlier, did I have less tolerance for ********, and more respect for my quality time and how i spend it ...so there!
For example in my case, I had truly realistic expectations of both myself and him who i thought is also a mature individual. But I didnt get this right obvisouly...
My point is, while love is certainly unconditional, relationships certainly arent. And they require actual more or less continuous work.....
Thanks a lot for your comments btw-they make all the difference
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Originally Posted by fionamccarthy
But you have to figure out the problem first, and then get out. As soon as I was SURE what the problem was, I did get out. However, it took some real time, and I wasnt aware of lot of what was going on behind the scenes, so to speak. Also, I didnt want to accuse anyone of anything nor label them before IM 100 percent sure. As I dont think that would be fair either. SO... when I did get out finally, that doesnt mean I didnt get emotionally involved in the meantime. Which IS a hard pill to swallow alright, and which is why im in this forum now too- to just try to mourn the lost relationship that turned out to be a disaster.
Self-care is never wrong. If I had had enough self-care and self-compassion for myself I would have left considerably earlier.....regardless of my loved one's disease.
When I substituted out his feelings for alcohol, with my feelings for him I oddly felt better. His addiction was his, because of his addictions he could not be in relationship in the way I wanted.
In other words alcohol was a third person in my relationship in many ways. I was threatening that core relationship.
I felt about him the way he felt about alcohol.....he was my addiction in many ways and for me it was why leaving that relationship was so painful. In a similar fashion it was not a big deal for me to leave alcohol.
It is resaonable to ask for a relationship that is balanced and equal. In my case he could not provide that, but I kept expecting that out of him. That was unreasonable on my part as he repeatedly showed me who he was.
It if fair to have expectations of how you will be treated....you cannot make any one individual treat you that way though. That took me FOREVER to learn, like decades.
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