Driving myself crazy
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Join Date: Jun 2019
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Driving myself crazy
I posted a few days ago about my AH. He travels a lot, three days a week for the last couple of years. This afternoon, he said his company sent him to Netherlands and he will be back tomorrow. How can a company send someone at the last minute for a day’s trip?! I smell a lie. He has never lied about something this big before.
it is driving me crazy. And I know all of those years of his lying, and absolute denial, even if we both know he is lying, has made me this sick in the head of getting caught up in the web of truth and lies. Of wanting to catch him in this lie. And as humbling as it would be to find the contrary (that maybe he DID get sent on a one day trip to Netherlands), I want to know the truth.
I have been reading so many threads on this forum tonight to find some solace. Something to hold on to.
I am am so terribly, terribly sad. When do they shift from ok alcoholic (oxymoron, I’m sure) to a mad person? He doesn’t drink everyday. He’s not always stumbling drunk. I don’t know. i don’t know what I want to say here or what I am asking people to say to me. I’m afraid that my husband, whom I still love very much, is slipping and sliding into his alcoholism. And maybe this is the beginning of that descent into oblivion.
it is driving me crazy. And I know all of those years of his lying, and absolute denial, even if we both know he is lying, has made me this sick in the head of getting caught up in the web of truth and lies. Of wanting to catch him in this lie. And as humbling as it would be to find the contrary (that maybe he DID get sent on a one day trip to Netherlands), I want to know the truth.
I have been reading so many threads on this forum tonight to find some solace. Something to hold on to.
I am am so terribly, terribly sad. When do they shift from ok alcoholic (oxymoron, I’m sure) to a mad person? He doesn’t drink everyday. He’s not always stumbling drunk. I don’t know. i don’t know what I want to say here or what I am asking people to say to me. I’m afraid that my husband, whom I still love very much, is slipping and sliding into his alcoholism. And maybe this is the beginning of that descent into oblivion.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,609
Hi Asy, I'm sorry this has happened.
That's (part) of the tragedy of addiction. He may well be slipping down the rabbit hole and you have no control over that.
Time and again people post their stories here (as you have read) where either a social drinker or a heavy drinker crosses the line in to alcoholism at some point and they are left wondering where their wonderful husband/wife went.
As you also know, there are no non-painful answers. That said the only person you can control is you. If this is not what you want for your life, what other options do you think you could pursue?
That's (part) of the tragedy of addiction. He may well be slipping down the rabbit hole and you have no control over that.
Time and again people post their stories here (as you have read) where either a social drinker or a heavy drinker crosses the line in to alcoholism at some point and they are left wondering where their wonderful husband/wife went.
As you also know, there are no non-painful answers. That said the only person you can control is you. If this is not what you want for your life, what other options do you think you could pursue?
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Join Date: Jun 2019
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Trailmix, I have read a lot of threads here about getting ready for separation/divorce.
im stressing out- we just bought a house, and I am financially tied to it for at least five years or the financial repercussions are significant. But I think I can deal with the financial aspect.
the bigger part is the custody of my child. I definitely need to consult lawyer for advice. UK is strict about custody and leans towards giving parents equal rights to access to the child. As an international couple, I don’t know how that would be. My whole family is in the US, and if our marriage is dissolved, I would want to return to the states with my family. Challengjng, I imagine.
i don’t even know what I would say to him tomorrow. Pretend I didn’t check for his passport? Wait for another lie? What I really want to do is throw his things out of our house and change the locks.
im stressing out- we just bought a house, and I am financially tied to it for at least five years or the financial repercussions are significant. But I think I can deal with the financial aspect.
the bigger part is the custody of my child. I definitely need to consult lawyer for advice. UK is strict about custody and leans towards giving parents equal rights to access to the child. As an international couple, I don’t know how that would be. My whole family is in the US, and if our marriage is dissolved, I would want to return to the states with my family. Challengjng, I imagine.
i don’t even know what I would say to him tomorrow. Pretend I didn’t check for his passport? Wait for another lie? What I really want to do is throw his things out of our house and change the locks.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
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Sorry, I didn't read that he was away overnight in your original post.
Where do you think he is?
I wouldn't pretend anything, I would say - you forgot your passport. The thing is, there is no excuse, no reason that is ok.
Where do you think he is?
I wouldn't pretend anything, I would say - you forgot your passport. The thing is, there is no excuse, no reason that is ok.
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Join Date: Jun 2019
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Yes. He was supposed to come back today, and that’s when he texted me to say he was going to Netherlands. Even gave me a flight number and the cost of the airfare. I can believe he lied, but at the same time I can’t.
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Join Date: Jun 2019
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Originally Posted by trailmix 
Sorry, I didn't read that he was away overnight in your original post.
Where do you think he is?
I wouldn't pretend anything, I would say - you forgot your passport. The thing is, there is no excuse, no reason that is ok.
Where do you think he is?
I wouldn't pretend anything, I would say - you forgot your passport. The thing is, there is no excuse, no reason that is ok.
i hate this person that I’ve become. Since I started going to al-Anon, I’ve been better at not sniffing, looking, controlling. And now I’m back to snooping, playing detective.
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 293
Bringing up the very logical observation that he needs his passport for such a trip and how did he manage without it is not an unreasonable question.
Maybe at this point it doesn't matter anyway.
Giving yourself a solid game plan as you prepare to detach will help make it more real and maybe bring you some feeling of control over the situation.
You are certainly not in denial and understand that there really is nothing you can do but save yourself and child.
I am very sorry you are facing this. Addiction is so cruel and relentless.
Maybe at this point it doesn't matter anyway.
Giving yourself a solid game plan as you prepare to detach will help make it more real and maybe bring you some feeling of control over the situation.
You are certainly not in denial and understand that there really is nothing you can do but save yourself and child.
I am very sorry you are facing this. Addiction is so cruel and relentless.
Blue Belt
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Soberville, USA
Posts: 4,174
99 percent of the folks I know don't understand addiction.
Most active addicts dont and, best I can tell, many recovering addicts still don't understand it.
All the rationalization, lies, anger, happiness etc etc associated with addiction are at like the scab or the blood oozing from the injury.
The damage is deep in the brain within the central nervous system. Booze immediately alters, damages, the brain and causes folks to crave it. It also changes their ability to normally feel emotions. It is all about dopamine.
The damage is slow acting, insidious. It takes decades for folks to eventually go clinically insane from booze. But, there are tell tale signs that the addict is on the way to 5150 land.
The physical ramifications are more obvious.
I feel if more folks understood the science behind the results of drinking, they could better weather the suffering it takes to recover and maintain a non drinking life style.
Thanks.
Most active addicts dont and, best I can tell, many recovering addicts still don't understand it.
All the rationalization, lies, anger, happiness etc etc associated with addiction are at like the scab or the blood oozing from the injury.
The damage is deep in the brain within the central nervous system. Booze immediately alters, damages, the brain and causes folks to crave it. It also changes their ability to normally feel emotions. It is all about dopamine.
The damage is slow acting, insidious. It takes decades for folks to eventually go clinically insane from booze. But, there are tell tale signs that the addict is on the way to 5150 land.
The physical ramifications are more obvious.
I feel if more folks understood the science behind the results of drinking, they could better weather the suffering it takes to recover and maintain a non drinking life style.
Thanks.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains
Posts: 816
Is part of your misery not being able to speak with him and
know he is ok, or are you used to not speaking when he's traveling?
For me it was very anxiety provoking when AH would not answer
phone when traveling. He got to where he would call before he
started drinking so I would know he had gotten to his destination.
Don't be so hard on yourself. The family disease of alcoholism is
like having a tornado in your living room everyday - quite enough
to bring anyone to their knees. It takes time to implement all the
alanon teachings and we all stumble at times. Take a deep breath
and try to let it go for the night. You will be better tomorrow.
(((hugs)))
know he is ok, or are you used to not speaking when he's traveling?
For me it was very anxiety provoking when AH would not answer
phone when traveling. He got to where he would call before he
started drinking so I would know he had gotten to his destination.
Don't be so hard on yourself. The family disease of alcoholism is
like having a tornado in your living room everyday - quite enough
to bring anyone to their knees. It takes time to implement all the
alanon teachings and we all stumble at times. Take a deep breath
and try to let it go for the night. You will be better tomorrow.
(((hugs)))
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,609
I personally don't think that's actually crazy. He lied to you. When someone lies to you and you think they may be you generally go look for the facts (the passport).
That seems logical to me. But, as with alcoholism, now you know. He is lying to you. The only question is, what do you do with that information?
That really is entirely up to you. Sadly the choices are to accept this the way it is or not. He doesn't seem to want to quit drinking at this point.
I'm so sorry this is happening Asy. I know it causes you a lot of pain.
That seems logical to me. But, as with alcoholism, now you know. He is lying to you. The only question is, what do you do with that information?
That really is entirely up to you. Sadly the choices are to accept this the way it is or not. He doesn't seem to want to quit drinking at this point.
I'm so sorry this is happening Asy. I know it causes you a lot of pain.
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Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 66
Here's the big question that may be lurking in the back of your mind...
Besides the drinking problem... is he "alone"?
Perhaps you can express to him your unease, and to put your mind at rest have him enable the gps tracking on his phone so you can verify he is where he says he is?
Besides the drinking problem... is he "alone"?
Perhaps you can express to him your unease, and to put your mind at rest have him enable the gps tracking on his phone so you can verify he is where he says he is?
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: The Beach
Posts: 1,106
Originally Posted by trailmix
I wouldn't pretend anything, I would say - you forgot your passport. The thing is, there is no excuse, no reason that is ok.
The Old Me would have asked, " I know you weren't in the Netherlands. Where were you?" and when he lied to me I'd whip out the passport and say, "Try again..."
But the New Me knows that it doesn't matter, because he would just tell another lie, and us both knowing that he was lying wouldn't change the situation. My righteousness would feel hollow because his deceptive behavior has been happening and is going to continue. That's the dysfunction in a relationship with an addict. It's such a sick and painful cycle of existence.
I used to live that life. I decided that was not the quality of spouse or life that I wanted. This is really rough stuff Asy, I'm sorry you are dealing with it.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains
Posts: 816
With an active alcoholic you are always involved in a toxic
"dance".
A huge part of this dance is arguing about anything and everything
because it serves the purpose of taking the focus off the alcoholic.
You may want to consider stopping dancing. No questions, no
accusations, just let him talk.
And say things like - interesting. Hmmmm. Really.
I remember the first time I stopped the toxic dance. I
sort of enjoyed watching his uneasiness because I
wouldn't engage.
"dance".
A huge part of this dance is arguing about anything and everything
because it serves the purpose of taking the focus off the alcoholic.
You may want to consider stopping dancing. No questions, no
accusations, just let him talk.
And say things like - interesting. Hmmmm. Really.
I remember the first time I stopped the toxic dance. I
sort of enjoyed watching his uneasiness because I
wouldn't engage.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
from mylifeismine: Don't be so hard on yourself. The family disease of alcoholism is
like having a tornado in your living room everyday - quite enough
to bring anyone to their knees. It takes time to implement all the
alanon teachings and we all stumble at times. Take a deep breath
and try to let it go for the night. You will be better tomorrow.
(((hugs)))
Yeah this!
Asy14 I agree with others that you certainly don't ignore or pretend everything is OK. So what does that look/sound like? When we've been living in denial and glossing over things the feelings and the words of normal truth in a normal relationship are unfamiliar and can feel alarming. We would rather avoid "confrontation." In the A home we have been trained to minimize conflict, because until we wake up to addiction reality, we are enabling and playing for Team Alcohol without even realizing we were recruited to the team!
Practice saying the truth as calmly as you can. Use "I" statements. Be sober and serious, because you know the score. Remember an alcoholic will stand in front of you with a bottle in their hand and deny they have been drinking, so be prepared for some untruth to come back at you.
It doesn't feel good to be lied to in an intimate relationship. In a normal relationship issues like distrust and lying are faced and gotten to the bottom of. Normies understand this and work out relationship difficulties with honesty...alcoholics do not do that, they will often spin wilder and wilder tales, especially ones designed to invoke our sympathy for "their struggles" with alcohol.... a lot of words can come at us to distract us from the reality of their actions. And let me just say - obviously - not all normies have healthy intimate relationships - not by a longshot - but if your bff was telling you this story, minus alcoholism, what would you tell her? It sure as heck ain't OK and it needs to be addressed.
Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean. "Your passports are here. So I know you lied to me about being sent to NL. That really hurts me and alarms me. Is there something you need to tell me?"
Just be ready - he may pick a fight and do all kinds of verbal or emotional gymnastics to deflect. You can choose not to engage at all, I like people's suggestions of just saying, "Hmmmmm." or "OK." or "I see." Try not to get caught up and let him make it an argument with you or about you. Also lower any expectations you may be hoping for that revealing his lie will have any effect on his behavior. Regardless of his choices you can choose to live in truth.
Tough stuff. Sending (((hugs)))
Peace,
B.
like having a tornado in your living room everyday - quite enough
to bring anyone to their knees. It takes time to implement all the
alanon teachings and we all stumble at times. Take a deep breath
and try to let it go for the night. You will be better tomorrow.
(((hugs)))
Yeah this!
Asy14 I agree with others that you certainly don't ignore or pretend everything is OK. So what does that look/sound like? When we've been living in denial and glossing over things the feelings and the words of normal truth in a normal relationship are unfamiliar and can feel alarming. We would rather avoid "confrontation." In the A home we have been trained to minimize conflict, because until we wake up to addiction reality, we are enabling and playing for Team Alcohol without even realizing we were recruited to the team!
Practice saying the truth as calmly as you can. Use "I" statements. Be sober and serious, because you know the score. Remember an alcoholic will stand in front of you with a bottle in their hand and deny they have been drinking, so be prepared for some untruth to come back at you.
It doesn't feel good to be lied to in an intimate relationship. In a normal relationship issues like distrust and lying are faced and gotten to the bottom of. Normies understand this and work out relationship difficulties with honesty...alcoholics do not do that, they will often spin wilder and wilder tales, especially ones designed to invoke our sympathy for "their struggles" with alcohol.... a lot of words can come at us to distract us from the reality of their actions. And let me just say - obviously - not all normies have healthy intimate relationships - not by a longshot - but if your bff was telling you this story, minus alcoholism, what would you tell her? It sure as heck ain't OK and it needs to be addressed.
Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean. "Your passports are here. So I know you lied to me about being sent to NL. That really hurts me and alarms me. Is there something you need to tell me?"
Just be ready - he may pick a fight and do all kinds of verbal or emotional gymnastics to deflect. You can choose not to engage at all, I like people's suggestions of just saying, "Hmmmmm." or "OK." or "I see." Try not to get caught up and let him make it an argument with you or about you. Also lower any expectations you may be hoping for that revealing his lie will have any effect on his behavior. Regardless of his choices you can choose to live in truth.
Tough stuff. Sending (((hugs)))
Peace,
B.
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Southern US
Posts: 510
Originally Posted by endofmyrope65
Here's the big question that may be lurking in the back of your mind...
Besides the drinking problem... is he "alone"?
Perhaps you can express to him your unease, and to put your mind at rest have him enable the gps tracking on his phone so you can verify he is where he says he is?
Besides the drinking problem... is he "alone"?
Perhaps you can express to him your unease, and to put your mind at rest have him enable the gps tracking on his phone so you can verify he is where he says he is?
Also, things might be different in your country, but I can log onto my husband's cell phone account and see his text messages. Even if he deletes it off his phone, it will be on the phone provider's log. (We use Verizon) He knows I can do this; again....part of the regaining trust agreement.
Dr. Phil has a great quote that I live by: "Those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing."
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 35
Thank you all so much for your advice. This is such a big, learning process. Very eye-opening and painful too. His trip “got extended” another day and he said he will go home tomorrow. Lots of texts from him this morning, and radio silence rest of day. I was very bothered by this. But I chose to spend the afternoon by myself and enjoy the sunshine, and for a few hours, it felt nice to just enjoy the day. Of course, when I got home and started thinking about him, I got angry and hurt all over again.
It is such a rollercoaster. When does the ride end?
It is such a rollercoaster. When does the ride end?
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Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 395
Personally, tracking someone is just as obsessive as counting booze bottles. Both are extremely unhealthy, in my opinion. And what good will it do? But drive you insane... and for what? Ok so he/she lied. That’s what alcoholics do!!! And it only gets worse.
I’d seriously be in a mental institution if I started doing that... I was already obsessed enough over my ex.
There’s a bigger picture here... regardless of when and where his lies started or are now. Netherlands or a bar downtown. It doesn’t matter. He lied, he’s gonna do it again & again... drink more, etc.
Let’s take the focus completely off him.
I’d seriously be in a mental institution if I started doing that... I was already obsessed enough over my ex.
There’s a bigger picture here... regardless of when and where his lies started or are now. Netherlands or a bar downtown. It doesn’t matter. He lied, he’s gonna do it again & again... drink more, etc.
Let’s take the focus completely off him.
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: East Coast
Posts: 1,235
Several thoughts come to mind...
1) He may be losing more of his "functional" brain if he can't cover his tracks. This does not bode well for work.
2) He may not be alone - and if he is conducting an affair with a co-worker he is really asking for trouble especially if his affair partner is a subordinate.
3) The US Embassy in the UK has a list of attorneys/solicitors on their website, including those who specialize in family law. The list is not an endorsement, but it's a start.
1) He may be losing more of his "functional" brain if he can't cover his tracks. This does not bode well for work.
2) He may not be alone - and if he is conducting an affair with a co-worker he is really asking for trouble especially if his affair partner is a subordinate.
3) The US Embassy in the UK has a list of attorneys/solicitors on their website, including those who specialize in family law. The list is not an endorsement, but it's a start.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,609
All we know is that he is an active alcoholic that lies about his drinking.
Asy I'm glad that you were able to have a few happier hours this afternoon. There is nothing good in this, it's painful for you. The ride stops when you hop off, not before really.
That said, is that an option for you, is this something you are thinking about? At this point it doesn't appear that he is thinking about stopping his drinking.
Asy I'm glad that you were able to have a few happier hours this afternoon. There is nothing good in this, it's painful for you. The ride stops when you hop off, not before really.
That said, is that an option for you, is this something you are thinking about? At this point it doesn't appear that he is thinking about stopping his drinking.
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