Seeing the good

Old 06-19-2019, 11:32 PM
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Seeing the good

I just watched a Ted talk about what you speak about someone is what they become to you.
She suggested we are hardwired to find the faults in people, and we need to look for the good.
So while nobody in the hotel room is awake, I am trying to think of what I could say about AH, and what I used to say about him to others.
It is really hard. There always seems to be a 'but...'
Perhaps too much damage has been done.
He is generous, but that needs to be more than just about money.
He is spending more time with us, but that needs to continue once we get back from holidays.
But...he is drinking heavily each night and doing that night after night after night means that he is shutting us out and hurting himself.
Not sure what I am expecting from writing this...just needed to get it out of my head.
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Old 06-20-2019, 05:41 AM
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Sometimes when we're done we are simply done and we know it. Healing happens in many ways.

With my non-alcoholic FOO, 'seeing the good' is allowing an awareness of unhealthy behaviors and being able to say, 'I heal quickly with great support from people who understand these dynamics.'

Even as I kept No Contact with my husband through much of his active alcoholism in this part year, I had meditations that opened my awareness of both the good and the trauma I've experienced.

Allowing my emotions a voice, allowing myself to feel my feelings and then learning to direct my attention to the good in the day is a practice that's becoming easy.

Trusting my healthy instincts allows room for great self-care and then (second) room for healthy interactions with my husband. He is currently sober, in recovery and we are still living apart.

Positive words and outlooks are amazing in transforming my recovery! It opens me up to kindness for self and others. Through my recovery, what is kind is much different than I used to think. Allowing an awareness of trauma, past or present, is an important component. That is also a kindness for myself. To honor and be aware of what I've been through and am currently dealing with.

Namaste.

One day at a time.
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Old 06-20-2019, 06:13 AM
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Wombaticus…..in recovery circles, one learns about "staying on your side of the street"....and a connecting principle of "avoid taking other people's inventory"......this, in itself, will cut down on bad mouthing others.....lol...
However...I do think acknowledging how others may have hurt you...when talking to understanding others, is not a bad thing. I am talking about people in your own intimate circle, who care about your welfare....people who "have a need to know".....
I don't think you are under obligation to be his community cheerleader...and, neither would you benefit from cutting him down in the public square....
In general, the more you focus on issues inside your own hoola hoop....the less you will be talking about him, in general....
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Old 06-20-2019, 06:22 AM
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Hmmmm. I don't know that I agree with that. I think I say good thing about people who deserve it. Yes, every person has a good quality. However, some people are just a$$holes. If you do good people will talk good about you. If you act like a jerk, people will say you are a jerk. It's your actions that count.

My XAH is a prime example. He does have one or two redeeming qualities as everyone does, and I am willing to say that about him. However, I am not going to say those one or two redeeming qualities negate all the BS he puts the people in his life through on a regular basis. I don't even mean me or my kids. Take us out of the picture and it still happens. It's who he is and I have come to accept that.

Interesting and thought provoking post.
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Old 06-20-2019, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by hopeful4 View Post
Hmmmm. I don't know that I agree with that. I think I say good thing about people who deserve it. Yes, every person has a good quality. However, some people are just a$$holes. If you do good people will talk good about you. If you act like a jerk, people will say you are a jerk. It's your actions that count.

My XAH is a prime example. He does have one or two redeeming qualities as everyone does, and I am willing to say that about him. However, I am not going to say those one or two redeeming qualities negate all the BS he puts the people in his life through on a regular basis. I don't even mean me or my kids. Take us out of the picture and it still happens. It's who he is and I have come to accept that.

Interesting and thought provoking post.
I agree 100%. I could have written the same thing about my AXH.

There were many ways he was a good husband. Especially in all things physical, he kept a roof over my head, food in my belly, clothes on my back and a warm body in my bed...BUT that does not negate any of the mental and emotional damage he did to me with his alcoholic behaviors. Nor does it negate any of the horrible (sometimes illegal and/or destructive) things he things he did(does) either. His upbringing was unhealthy, so I have empathy because of that, but he could have chosen to rise above that which he was taught. He has chosen not to, instead he uses it as an excuse for the rotten things he does. I think that says a lot about his true character. For him to be aware what he is doing is wrong but to keep finding excuses to do that bad behavior is troublesome, and does not a good spouse make.

I've always said I will have love in my heart for the father of my children, but now I love him from a distance, it's much safer for my health. While I like the idea of focusing on the positive attributes in a person, I think that could be very dangerous if it leads to ignoring the negative behaviors.

Very interesting topic. Thanks!
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Old 06-20-2019, 08:26 AM
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If anyone is familiar with CBT/ Cognitive Behavior Therapy, this would fall into filtering and black/ white thinking. Focusing too much on either the good or bad in self, and others (black/ white), or filtering out the parts you don’t want to deal with. To me, the way I look at it, it’s a good idea look at the whole picture/ everything that you are dealing with:


https://positivepsychology.com/cbt-c...es-worksheets/
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Old 06-20-2019, 09:22 AM
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My AXGF was so many things to so many different people... some saw her as a manipulative & controlling drunk... some as a hard working corporate leader... some as a “sober” daughter (yes, her parents believed her lies that she was sober)... some as a caring woman... some as the life of the party... some as not even an alcoholic!!

“Seeing the good” in her is honestly what got me stuck in the first place... and then, what justified me returning all those times.

Such a good topic.

With my ex, yes she did and still does have some good in her. She loved entertaining... helping volunteer with the homeless... loved children... loved gardening... loved dogs with a passion. But it’s not consistent... it alters with different people... and her alcoholism simply CRUSHES anything “good” in its way.

Addiction destroys anything good in someone, in my opinion

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Old 06-20-2019, 10:15 AM
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She suggested we are hardwired to find the faults in people, and we need to look for the good
I’m the first to admit that I am guilty of trying too hard and wasting too much time on trying to find the good in some people that just isn’t there.

I no longer run the obstacle course trying to get around, work through and fix those RED FLAGS I see in some people. Now I do an about face the moment one begins to wave and retreat to peace and be thankful to have dodged another bullet in life.
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Old 06-20-2019, 10:36 AM
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Maybe we ARE "hard wired to find the faults in people" but is that a bad thing? Maybe that's on purpose.

If I had paid attention to my first instincts and acted appropriately, my life would never have gone as sideways as it did.
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Old 06-20-2019, 11:26 AM
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I think this is true as long as that is not all we ever see. I am a person who has a cup that is half full, not half empty, and I don't want that to change. I do think we all have gut instinct that we need to listen to!

Originally Posted by SmallButMighty View Post
Maybe we ARE "hard wired to find the faults in people" but is that a bad thing? Maybe that's on purpose.

If I had paid attention to my first instincts and acted appropriately, my life would never have gone as sideways as it did.
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Old 06-20-2019, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Wombaticus View Post
I just watched a Ted talk about what you speak about someone is what they become to you.
She suggested we are hardwired to find the faults in people, and we need to look for the good.
So while nobody in the hotel room is awake, I am trying to think of what I could say about AH, and what I used to say about him to others.
It is really hard. There always seems to be a 'but...'
Perhaps too much damage has been done.
He is generous, but that needs to be more than just about money.
He is spending more time with us, but that needs to continue once we get back from holidays.
But...he is drinking heavily each night and doing that night after night after night means that he is shutting us out and hurting himself.
Not sure what I am expecting from writing this...just needed to get it out of my head.
Maybe try replacing the "but" with "and also"? The good qualities and the bad qualities can coexist, one doesn't have negate the other. My ex could be very generous, and also could be self-centred to a mind-blowing degree. Because of my position in his life (spouse for 25 years and parent of his only child), I mainly experienced the second half of that sentence. But there were other people in his life whose experience of him had more of the first half of that sentence.

At his recent memorial service, former coworkers commented on what a great laugh he had and how funny he could be. He did have an infectious sense of humor and also could be mean, vindictive and hurtful.

I think that because addicts are so good at hiding their addictions and consequent dysfunctions, and at deceiving, manipulating and gaslighting people, when we F&F wake up to the severity of their problems, we want to establish what THE TRUTH is. We have seen the private side of the addict, which is often hard to square with what other people think of them. Using "and also" lets us acknowledge that our experiences of the alcoholic are valid and true, but don't exhaust everything that can be said about the alcoholic.
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Old 06-20-2019, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by LifeChangeNYC View Post


“Seeing the good” in her is honestly what got me stuck in the first place... and then, what justified me returning all those times.



"Seeing the good" in someone doesn't oblige you to do anything with that person. You can see that they have good qualities, and still decide to have nothing to do with them.
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Old 06-20-2019, 03:15 PM
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IME, staying focused on the good can keep one in a bad situation. We want to see the whole person in order to make choices in life. The bad can very easily be denied by a codependent. Or a wish to change can keep a person hooked.
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Old 06-21-2019, 02:00 PM
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Thanks everyone. I wish we could have discussed all of this over tea and scones! Its been interesting so far.
I really like sasha1972s 'and also".
He can be very generous and also very self centred.
He can be very affectionate and also very distant, want to spend a lot of time alone and only interact when it suits him.
I don't know how much I can turn my feelings back on as I have turned them off so much to protect my heart. The window of opportunity is closing fast as I focus more on what I need.
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Old 06-21-2019, 04:41 PM
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I think it was more about people who are slightly different but for the most part normal. I don't think it's about drinking alcoholics, terrorists, dictator's, or sex-offenders. They are what we think they are...
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Old 06-22-2019, 01:38 PM
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I've met many people in various recovery situations. Al-Anon, Celebrate Recovery, rehab centers, open AA and NA groups, ACA (Adult Children of Alcoholics and other dysfunctional families).

Lots of good people affected by the disease of addiction and other issues. Some not good people affected by it, too.

I attended a group recovery meeting this morning for family members and walked away unsure of how I felt about it. In the first few minutes I had gut instincts screaming "get up and leave"! Healthy gut instincts, not the illness of having addiction in my family that used to keep me away from recovery and getting help.

I stayed. I trust in taking things one moment at a time. Now reflecting on it after lunch, retail therapy and a bit of time in nature, I'm seeing --- and more importantly feeling --- all kinds of red flags.

The good in this: seeing a toxic person who's organized and is leading a 'recovery' group that isn't recovering. The 'kindness', 'hospitality' and 'caring' were not genuine. It felt off. Fake. Crafted.

Good: I believe my instincts.

Good: I have genuine recovery groups that may look like many things. Messy, real and authentic.

It may be weird to see that first part as good, yet it helps me trust my instincts and redirect to really good healthy things in life.
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Old 06-22-2019, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Mango212 View Post
I've met many people in various recovery situations. Al-Anon, Celebrate Recovery, rehab centers, open AA and NA groups, ACA (Adult Children of Alcoholics and other dysfunctional families).

Lots of good people affected by the disease of addiction and other issues. Some not good people affected by it, too.

I attended a group recovery meeting this morning for family members and walked away unsure of how I felt about it. In the first few minutes I had gut instincts screaming "get up and leave"! Healthy gut instincts, not the illness of having addiction in my family that used to keep me away from recovery and getting help.

I stayed. I trust in taking things one moment at a time. Now reflecting on it after lunch, retail therapy and a bit of time in nature, I'm seeing --- and more importantly feeling --- all kinds of red flags.

The good in this: seeing a toxic person who's organized and is leading a 'recovery' group that isn't recovering. The 'kindness', 'hospitality' and 'caring' were not genuine. It felt off. Fake. Crafted.

Good: I believe my instincts.

Good: I have genuine recovery groups that may look like many things. Messy, real and authentic.

It may be weird to see that first part as good, yet it helps me trust my instincts and redirect to really good healthy things in life.
Yes, Mango. Perhaps you didn't leave out of politeness? And you knew it was time-limited? Good for you. You saw red flags and kept your boundaries.
I married a fabulous person. I am proud of that. And our lives have been affected by alcohol. I can't be a passenger on that bus. I am keeping my boundaries and that is why the cracks in our marriage are deepening.
I am also proud of that in a way...that I am staying true to who I am and won't keep bending and twisting to fit in.
if acquaintances expected me to change, I would keep my distance, but still be friendly when I saw them. But I wouldn't be telling them my deepest secrets.
I am who I am. In the words of someone wise: "be yourself, everyone else is taken".
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Old 06-24-2019, 09:06 AM
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Just remember that many times recovery groups are led by people who don't have any credentials or training to go with it. Just because they say something does not make it so. And all recovery groups are not good ones.

Take what helps and leave the rest!
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Old 06-24-2019, 12:01 PM
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I think seeing the good is what has kept me in this marriage longer than I should. At some point, you become used to something that has become a new normal. Yet, it's not normal.

I am forever trying to weigh the good vs the bad. At what point, does the bad overcome the good? That's the point where you get out. That point has continuously shifted because I keep finding the good. I keep finding that justification. It's messed up.
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Old 06-24-2019, 01:21 PM
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This...

Originally Posted by LifeChangeNYC View Post
“Seeing the good” in her is honestly what got me stuck in the first place... and then, what justified me returning all those times... Addiction destroys anything good in someone, in my opinion
For me, I'd change it to: Seeing the "good” in her is honestly what got me stuck in the first place, and what I used to justify me returning all those times... Addiction neutralizes or destroys anything good in someone if and until they find long-term sobriety in my opinion. Only then will we know if any of the good survives.
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