Down the Rabbit Hole
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Down the Rabbit Hole
Hi everyone. I have posted here a few times about separating from my ex AH. He appeared to be taking recovery seriously and we agreed to a few nights a week of overnight time with our kid. Someone reached out to me and told me he was drinking a few weeks ago but I didn’t feel I had enough to go on.
Well. Last night he couldn’t handle the kid and called me to pick her up. When I got there he was visibly drunk, large mostly empty liquor bottle out. Breath reeking of booze, stumbling.
So I am terrified. I was up all night and today told him he cannot have overnight visits, only daytime w breathalyzer before and after, and eventually I will consider resuming them with alcohol testing at intervals while he has her. I can’t force him to comply but I said if he picks her up for overnight I go right to court to file for emergency custody.
I got hours and hours of lies and manipulation. It was his girlfriends vodka (a new girl he allegedly dumped this morning that my kid never saw). He was on new meds that made him slur. He had a non alcoholic beer. He hasn’t had a drink in 8 months. I told him I knew it was a lie and so did he so how about we cut the crap. But it went on and on and on. I am taking the only thing that he has in his life. That everyone thinks I am unfair and overreacting by divorcing him. He will die without his kid. I am abusing him and he knows he can’t beat me so he will submit to my rules because he has no choice. He was sooooo committed to the lie that he hasn’t had a single drink.
I felt like I had to listen because I needed to get him to agree. Honestly I don’t know that I could prove it in court sufficiently to get full custody but I realized that I wouldn’t be doing my job for my little if I didn’t fight like hell for her so if he calls me on it I pray I can get the woman who saw all the drinking to back me up in court.
But for today, my kid sleeps here, I am fighting for her. And I know everything he says is totall b***** designed to make me feel bad and guilty. Unfortunately I do, even if I know it’s BS. But, I am fighting for my kid and I am fighting for me. And as miserable as I am today it’s better than my marriage and I don’t have the knot in my chest like I did for years
Well. Last night he couldn’t handle the kid and called me to pick her up. When I got there he was visibly drunk, large mostly empty liquor bottle out. Breath reeking of booze, stumbling.
So I am terrified. I was up all night and today told him he cannot have overnight visits, only daytime w breathalyzer before and after, and eventually I will consider resuming them with alcohol testing at intervals while he has her. I can’t force him to comply but I said if he picks her up for overnight I go right to court to file for emergency custody.
I got hours and hours of lies and manipulation. It was his girlfriends vodka (a new girl he allegedly dumped this morning that my kid never saw). He was on new meds that made him slur. He had a non alcoholic beer. He hasn’t had a drink in 8 months. I told him I knew it was a lie and so did he so how about we cut the crap. But it went on and on and on. I am taking the only thing that he has in his life. That everyone thinks I am unfair and overreacting by divorcing him. He will die without his kid. I am abusing him and he knows he can’t beat me so he will submit to my rules because he has no choice. He was sooooo committed to the lie that he hasn’t had a single drink.
I felt like I had to listen because I needed to get him to agree. Honestly I don’t know that I could prove it in court sufficiently to get full custody but I realized that I wouldn’t be doing my job for my little if I didn’t fight like hell for her so if he calls me on it I pray I can get the woman who saw all the drinking to back me up in court.
But for today, my kid sleeps here, I am fighting for her. And I know everything he says is totall b***** designed to make me feel bad and guilty. Unfortunately I do, even if I know it’s BS. But, I am fighting for my kid and I am fighting for me. And as miserable as I am today it’s better than my marriage and I don’t have the knot in my chest like I did for years
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Join Date: Nov 2016
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You shouldn't feel guilty for one minute. You protected your child, that should never make you feel guilt.
What he is saying is a bold faced lie, you know that, if anyone should be feeling guilty it's him.
I don't know how old your child is but it would be traumatic for any child to be around someone so drunk and out of control. At LEAST he had the decency to call you to come and get her.
Stay the course, you are absolutely doing the right thing, your strength here is commendable.
What he is saying is a bold faced lie, you know that, if anyone should be feeling guilty it's him.
I don't know how old your child is but it would be traumatic for any child to be around someone so drunk and out of control. At LEAST he had the decency to call you to come and get her.
Stay the course, you are absolutely doing the right thing, your strength here is commendable.
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so if the babysitter had called you while you were at dinner and sounded totally snoot faced and asked you to come get your child, what would you do?
and how would you react?
and how much TIME would you spend listening the rants and raves and excuses for getting that drunk while your precious baby was in their care?
HE doesn't get a pass because his name tag says DAD.
and how would you react?
and how much TIME would you spend listening the rants and raves and excuses for getting that drunk while your precious baby was in their care?
HE doesn't get a pass because his name tag says DAD.
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They do know they’re lying, right? I have gone from feeling bad to feeling really angry about how much emotional energy went into trying to manipulate me into letting him parent drunk, and all of it is based on the lie that he hasn’t been drinking at all. Denial about how bad your situation is is one thing, but his commitment to the flatly impossible story as to why he wasn’t drunk (hasn’t had a drop since October!) he has to know is a giant pile of crap. Right?
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Originally Posted by DiggingForFire 
he has to know is a giant pile of crap. Right?
It's kind of impossible to say really. Addicts can be in their own world, does he believe it or is it simply a defense.
No way to know, only he knows and maybe he doesn't even know.
http://www.bma-wellness.com/papers/A..._Lies_Rel.html
First the addict lies to himself about his addiction, then he begins to lie to others. Lying, evasion, deception, manipulation, spinning and other techniques for avoiding or distorting the truth are necessary parts of the addictive process. They precede the main body of the addiction like military sappers and shock troops, mapping and clearing the way for its advance and protecting it from hostile counterattacks.
Because addiction by definition is an irrational, unbalanced and unhealthy behavior pattern resulting from an abnormal obsession, it simply cannot continue to exist under normal circumstances without the progressive attack upon and distortion of reality resulting from the operation of its propaganda and psychological warfare brigades. The fundamentally insane and unsupportable thinking and behavior of the addict must be justified and rationalized so that the addiction can continue and progress.
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A year into the breakdown and many years into dealing with the alcoholic, it still shocks and appalls me.
I watched him lie constantly about everything for years. I have no reason to be persuaded by his deeply earnest tone. He’s basically a psychopath.
If if I am right, which I am, he will dead within a year. He has decompensated cirrhosis. He had some improvement when he stopped drinking but he would have been considered for a transplant in October if he wasn’t drinking and this disqualified. As much as he hurts me and his kid by being such a disaster, it is him that will die from his own lies.
I watched him lie constantly about everything for years. I have no reason to be persuaded by his deeply earnest tone. He’s basically a psychopath.
If if I am right, which I am, he will dead within a year. He has decompensated cirrhosis. He had some improvement when he stopped drinking but he would have been considered for a transplant in October if he wasn’t drinking and this disqualified. As much as he hurts me and his kid by being such a disaster, it is him that will die from his own lies.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,617
Originally Posted by DiggingForFire
A year into the breakdown and many years into dealing with the alcoholic, it still shocks and appalls me.
I watched him lie constantly about everything for years. I have no reason to be persuaded by his deeply earnest tone. He’s basically a psychopath.
If if I am right, which I am, he will dead within a year. He has decompensated cirrhosis. He had some improvement when he stopped drinking but he would have been considered for a transplant in October if he wasn’t drinking and this disqualified. As much as he hurts me and his kid by being such a disaster, it is him that will die from his own lies.
I watched him lie constantly about everything for years. I have no reason to be persuaded by his deeply earnest tone. He’s basically a psychopath.
If if I am right, which I am, he will dead within a year. He has decompensated cirrhosis. He had some improvement when he stopped drinking but he would have been considered for a transplant in October if he wasn’t drinking and this disqualified. As much as he hurts me and his kid by being such a disaster, it is him that will die from his own lies.
"The fundamentally insane and unsupportable thinking and behavior of the addict"
It's not just for effect, it's real and that's what you are witnessing.
I'm sorry this is happening in your life DiggingForFire, I'm sure it is very hurtful for you.
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Thank you all so much for your kind words.
we were supposed to meet up today. I told him I had gotten the breathalyzer and he can blow and then he can spend some time with the kid and I will pick her up later.
At 6 o’clock this morning he texted me about an emergency family meeting out of town so we have to wait until Sunday. Lo and behold, the family meeting is made up.
So of course I was right, he cannot prove sobriety at 9 o’clock in the morning long enough to hang out with his kid. Despite the fact that according to him he was literally going to die if he didn’t get to see her for overnights. I am relieved the meeting is fake because that means the things I have witnessed and refuse to lie about aren't up for a giant discussion. I imagine he will make up excuses a few times and then insist that I am crazy for testing him and try to get time with her without me breathalysing him. At which point we will go to court, and I will have even more of a basis for my request.
we were supposed to meet up today. I told him I had gotten the breathalyzer and he can blow and then he can spend some time with the kid and I will pick her up later.
At 6 o’clock this morning he texted me about an emergency family meeting out of town so we have to wait until Sunday. Lo and behold, the family meeting is made up.
So of course I was right, he cannot prove sobriety at 9 o’clock in the morning long enough to hang out with his kid. Despite the fact that according to him he was literally going to die if he didn’t get to see her for overnights. I am relieved the meeting is fake because that means the things I have witnessed and refuse to lie about aren't up for a giant discussion. I imagine he will make up excuses a few times and then insist that I am crazy for testing him and try to get time with her without me breathalysing him. At which point we will go to court, and I will have even more of a basis for my request.
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Join Date: Jun 2019
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wowee kazowee!
How did you find out it was made up?
How did you find out it was made up?
Originally Posted by DiggingForFire
Thank you all so much for your kind words.
we were supposed to meet up today. I told him I had gotten the breathalyzer and he can blow and then he can spend some time with the kid and I will pick her up later.
At 6 o’clock this morning he texted me about an emergency family meeting out of town so we have to wait until Sunday. Lo and behold, the family meeting is made up.
So of course I was right, he cannot prove sobriety at 9 o’clock in the morning long enough to hang out with his kid. Despite the fact that according to him he was literally going to die if he didn’t get to see her for overnights. I am relieved the meeting is fake because that means the things I have witnessed and refuse to lie about aren't up for a giant discussion. I imagine he will make up excuses a few times and then insist that I am crazy for testing him and try to get time with her without me breathalysing him. At which point we will go to court, and I will have even more of a basis for my request.
we were supposed to meet up today. I told him I had gotten the breathalyzer and he can blow and then he can spend some time with the kid and I will pick her up later.
At 6 o’clock this morning he texted me about an emergency family meeting out of town so we have to wait until Sunday. Lo and behold, the family meeting is made up.
So of course I was right, he cannot prove sobriety at 9 o’clock in the morning long enough to hang out with his kid. Despite the fact that according to him he was literally going to die if he didn’t get to see her for overnights. I am relieved the meeting is fake because that means the things I have witnessed and refuse to lie about aren't up for a giant discussion. I imagine he will make up excuses a few times and then insist that I am crazy for testing him and try to get time with her without me breathalysing him. At which point we will go to court, and I will have even more of a basis for my request.
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This, this, this!
Your child deserves an advocate, and that is just what you did. Bravo!!!!
Good job Momma!
Your child deserves an advocate, and that is just what you did. Bravo!!!!
Good job Momma!
Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
so if the babysitter had called you while you were at dinner and sounded totally snoot faced and asked you to come get your child, what would you do?
and how would you react?
and how much TIME would you spend listening the rants and raves and excuses for getting that drunk while your precious baby was in their care?
HE doesn't get a pass because his name tag says DAD.
and how would you react?
and how much TIME would you spend listening the rants and raves and excuses for getting that drunk while your precious baby was in their care?
HE doesn't get a pass because his name tag says DAD.
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Originally Posted by pizza67
wowee kazowee!
How did you find out it was made up?
How did you find out it was made up?
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Hi All. Just a brief update. I took the kid to my XAH’s place as planned on Sunday morning. At 8:30 AM he blew a .08. He was acting like it was a miracle of science since he hadn’t been drinking. Told some story about someone he knew in sober living who got a positive result on a breathalyzer when they haven’t been drinking. I stuck around and went to breakfast with him and the kid, so that he could at least see her since their alone time wasn’t going to happen as planned. He completely ignored her and spent the entire time crying at me about how sad his life is now. I guess I asked for that. And give me the opportunity to retest him after a little bit more than an hour, and lo and behold he was at .05, consistent with metabolizing alcohol and not that the first one was miraculously wrong.
because I do not have a court order preventing him from seeing her if he is not sober, I’m trying to tread lightly in terms of appearing as reasonable as possible. But I told him it won’t happen again, she will not get out of the car until he has blown clean, and if he does not we just get in the car and leave. And at this point, I feel like I have something more than just my observation to go on if I have to go to court, so at this point, if I get any resistance to the testing and no overnight schedule that I had set out, I march right into court.
it’s been a really hard few days for me. That breakfast had me in the position of hearing all of the stuff I have completely refuse to let him dump on me for the last nine months. I had my reason for doing it, but it made me feel like ****. Of course, it was mostly lies or half truths twisted to make it sound like everything was unfairly terrible for him. But this very obvious relapse has made it so that I cannot completely disentangle myself because I have to be actively policing the custody issues, so even though I feel like I know what I need to do for my own best interest, I have to wallow around in the quagmire under the circumstances.
at this point, I will have no further substantive conversations with him. Pick up and drop off and testing only. At this point I feel like he has no leg to stand on, I have no reason to let him try to manipulate me, and if the current approach stops working, he can tell it to a judge.
I have to say, I was pretty impressed with the commitment to the lie that he would still deny having had anything to drink when his blood alcohol content was legally drunk. That’s pretty bold, dude .
because I do not have a court order preventing him from seeing her if he is not sober, I’m trying to tread lightly in terms of appearing as reasonable as possible. But I told him it won’t happen again, she will not get out of the car until he has blown clean, and if he does not we just get in the car and leave. And at this point, I feel like I have something more than just my observation to go on if I have to go to court, so at this point, if I get any resistance to the testing and no overnight schedule that I had set out, I march right into court.
it’s been a really hard few days for me. That breakfast had me in the position of hearing all of the stuff I have completely refuse to let him dump on me for the last nine months. I had my reason for doing it, but it made me feel like ****. Of course, it was mostly lies or half truths twisted to make it sound like everything was unfairly terrible for him. But this very obvious relapse has made it so that I cannot completely disentangle myself because I have to be actively policing the custody issues, so even though I feel like I know what I need to do for my own best interest, I have to wallow around in the quagmire under the circumstances.
at this point, I will have no further substantive conversations with him. Pick up and drop off and testing only. At this point I feel like he has no leg to stand on, I have no reason to let him try to manipulate me, and if the current approach stops working, he can tell it to a judge.
I have to say, I was pretty impressed with the commitment to the lie that he would still deny having had anything to drink when his blood alcohol content was legally drunk. That’s pretty bold, dude .
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Originally Posted by DiggingForFire
I have to say, I was pretty impressed with the commitment to the lie that he would still deny having had anything to drink when his blood alcohol content was legally drunk. That’s pretty bold, dude .
I've seen it before. It makes you shake your head.
You're doing really well in a trying situation DFF.
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DFF......It is not possible to overestimate the power of denial in alcoholism. It is the main defense....even in the face of obvious contradictory reality....
An alcoholic will have a drink in hand, in front of you...and, putting it to their mouth...and, swear, up and down that they are not drinking it....
I have seen that happen.....and, not just once.....
Yes, it is so frustrating that you can go blind with incredulousness …..
Factoid: You cannot fight denial with logic....or reality....It just doesn't work.....
lol...I have tried it....
This is why I think that you have to have strong...very strong boundaries...
Strong and consistent. That is where your protection lies....
You are up against the disease of alcoholism.....and, alcoholism is relentless....It controls and destroys the alcoholic, if not arrested, and it destroys those close to the alcoholic, also....if one lets it....
I think you are doing very well and working hard at it...but, do recognize that you are up against a mighty foe.....
You need to know everything...everything about alcoholism and how it behaves....."Know thine enemy"...…
You may have to grow a very thick rhino skin and grow some longer teeth....
If you give an inch...they will take a mile....and, you get no extra stars in your crown for being generous and nice up against an unreasonable foe.....
Lol...I know that I sound like a cod mean person....actually, I am pretty much a cream puff...but, I have been through the fire and I now believe in survival....
An alcoholic will have a drink in hand, in front of you...and, putting it to their mouth...and, swear, up and down that they are not drinking it....
I have seen that happen.....and, not just once.....
Yes, it is so frustrating that you can go blind with incredulousness …..
Factoid: You cannot fight denial with logic....or reality....It just doesn't work.....
lol...I have tried it....
This is why I think that you have to have strong...very strong boundaries...
Strong and consistent. That is where your protection lies....
You are up against the disease of alcoholism.....and, alcoholism is relentless....It controls and destroys the alcoholic, if not arrested, and it destroys those close to the alcoholic, also....if one lets it....
I think you are doing very well and working hard at it...but, do recognize that you are up against a mighty foe.....
You need to know everything...everything about alcoholism and how it behaves....."Know thine enemy"...…
You may have to grow a very thick rhino skin and grow some longer teeth....
If you give an inch...they will take a mile....and, you get no extra stars in your crown for being generous and nice up against an unreasonable foe.....
Lol...I know that I sound like a cod mean person....actually, I am pretty much a cream puff...but, I have been through the fire and I now believe in survival....
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yup, they can be standing there with a bottle of booze IN their hands and you are no more than 10 feet away - there are no clouds, mist, fog or other visual impediments and you can comment about the bottle in their hand and they will look you dead in the eye and say:
WHAT BOTTLE?
we can drive ourselves fruit loops trying to discern what things they say we CAN believe and which we cannot. it's really best to just assume it's ALL a load of hogwash. give none of it credence or value.
WHAT BOTTLE?
we can drive ourselves fruit loops trying to discern what things they say we CAN believe and which we cannot. it's really best to just assume it's ALL a load of hogwash. give none of it credence or value.
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Join Date: Nov 2010
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this is not a guilt trip, it is a request. knowing what you know, and I mean this very respectfully, please consider not exposing your child to him when you know him to be drunk. it's not fair to the child and they know and remember more than many people think. it does damage IMHO. the most important person in this whole equation is you, but only because you are responsible for the child's health and safety. the biological is a distant third and a grown-ass man who is fully and completely, without reservation, 100 percent responsible for himself, his life, and his sobriety. he's not qualified to be a parent right now in any way, short term or long term. he may never be. make decisions based on what is, not what might be, or what is wished it could be.
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