Down the Rabbit Hole
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Originally Posted by Cyranoak 
this is not a guilt trip, it is a request. knowing what you know, and I mean this very respectfully, please consider not exposing your child to him when you know him to be drunk. it's not fair to the child and they know and remember more than many people think. it does damage IMHO. the most important person in this whole equation is you, but only because you are responsible for the child's health and safety. the biological is a distant third and a grown-ass man who is fully and completely, without reservation, 100 percent responsible for himself, his life, and his sobriety. he's not qualified to be a parent right now in any way, short term or long term. he may never be. make decisions based on what is, not what might be, or what is wished it could be.
I totally hear you and agree. Like I said I feel like I have to tread carefully because I don’t have a court order terminating his visitation but I will not let her out of the car again if he is over 0.
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Originally Posted by Cyranoak
this is not a guilt trip, it is a request. knowing what you know, and I mean this very respectfully, please consider not exposing your child to him when you know him to be drunk. it's not fair to the child and they know and remember more than many people think. it does damage IMHO. the most important person in this whole equation is you, but only because you are responsible for the child's health and safety. the biological is a distant third and a grown-ass man who is fully and completely, without reservation, 100 percent responsible for himself, his life, and his sobriety. he's not qualified to be a parent right now in any way, short term or long term. he may never be. make decisions based on what is, not what might be, or what is wished it could be.
There are parents who will try to misrepresent each other in order to get custody so there needs to be a certain level of proof. DFF seems to understand this.
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Originally Posted by Bekindalways
I agree with this Cyranok however DFF needs to be really careful with how she treats the situation and document what is happening as the courts will consider the father's rights.
There are parents who will try to misrepresent each other in order to get custody so there needs to be a certain level of proof. DFF seems to understand this.
There are parents who will try to misrepresent each other in order to get custody so there needs to be a certain level of proof. DFF seems to understand this.
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Originally Posted by DiggingForFire
Thank you. I am an attorney. Not family law but I am treading carefully for exactly this reason and have talked w a lawyer about it. If it comes to court before I am ready to really prove current problems, I could be the one who looks to be disobeying the custody order. The more of this crap he pulls the less obstructionist I look and the more real the problem. He has no duis in 20 years and never threatened to hit anyone so the default in my state is 50/50 and drinking isn’t illegal or necessarily unfit parenting.
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XAH failed the breathalyzer after driving 20+ miles on his way get his kid. 0.18 this time. And no alcohol still! Such a medical miracle, that man. He wanted me to drive her to his house if I wouldn’t put her in the car.
He isn’t going to cooperate much more. I have to go to court. I think I maybe have enough now at least. Cross your fingers for my kid that I can convince the court to get him on soberlink.
He isn’t going to cooperate much more. I have to go to court. I think I maybe have enough now at least. Cross your fingers for my kid that I can convince the court to get him on soberlink.
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Originally Posted by DiggingForFire
XAH failed the breathalyzer after driving 20+ miles on his way get his kid. 0.18 this time. And no alcohol still! Such a medical miracle, that man. He wanted me to drive her to his house if I wouldn’t put her in the car.
He isn’t going to cooperate much more. I have to go to court. I think I maybe have enough now at least. Cross your fingers for my kid that I can convince the court to get him on soberlink.
He isn’t going to cooperate much more. I have to go to court. I think I maybe have enough now at least. Cross your fingers for my kid that I can convince the court to get him on soberlink.
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I went back and read your other threads. The common denominator in his visits is how you have ruined his life and didn't give him enough chances etc and couldn't you just give him some more chances, ie: he wants to return to the status quo.
Is he an involved Father at all? You mentioned that it was no surprise she didn't want to go with him one time because you are the one that has always taken care of her while he was laid out drunk.
So I'm thinking not?
So if he hasn't spent a lot of time with her in the past and has been an absentee Father, basically, why all the interest in visitation now, except as a means to get to see you.
Insisting on soberlink now or taking it to court and having it enforced, based on his behaviour, may cut the visitation way down.
You might find his visits become few and far between without the opportunity to keep you in his sights.
Is he an involved Father at all? You mentioned that it was no surprise she didn't want to go with him one time because you are the one that has always taken care of her while he was laid out drunk.
So I'm thinking not?
So if he hasn't spent a lot of time with her in the past and has been an absentee Father, basically, why all the interest in visitation now, except as a means to get to see you.
Insisting on soberlink now or taking it to court and having it enforced, based on his behaviour, may cut the visitation way down.
You might find his visits become few and far between without the opportunity to keep you in his sights.
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Thanks all. He was a very hands off dad when we were together. Wanted us around him all the time but never put her to bed, took her to the park without me, read her a story, etc. I was shocked when he insisted we share custody after he got out of rehab.
I do think he loves her. I don’t think the insistence on her time is so much about me as about being a dad being the last thing between him and being a complete loser. He lost me, and with me both the look of a nice family life and the economic status (we both did ok financially at the time). He lost his job lying about why he was out for so long when he was in rehab. He lost all the mutual friends who were from my side (which was almost all of them). His family thinks he is the problem. So being a good dad seems like this thing he has latched on to. And he’s done way better until this episode (he has to for her to even be fed and clothed without me there).
He hasnt worked for more than a week and his new relationships (three i think in the 4 months since he finally understood hell would freeze over before I touch him again) haven’t stuck. But I figured once he has a life (job and a woman to torture/lie to) he will back off somewhat, because he never wanted to do the work of parenting before. But even yesterday he was talking about wanting 50/50 and asking for it once he has worked his new job for a few months and found a live in girlfriend (!!!!!!).
But I do think sober links would definitely decrease the visits because he clearly can’t stay sober past sunrise.
I feel like a jerk going to court but I can’t fight with him every time he blows drunk or wait for him to refuse and drive off w her.
And yeah, I got the whole I ruined his life song and dance while he cried for like half an hour before I told him to leave or i would call the cops and report the DUI even without the kid in the car making it reckless endangerment. If I have the law behind me when I just tell him to go, I step back from that crazy train again.
Oh please, judge, let me protect my child from this dangerous man.
I do think he loves her. I don’t think the insistence on her time is so much about me as about being a dad being the last thing between him and being a complete loser. He lost me, and with me both the look of a nice family life and the economic status (we both did ok financially at the time). He lost his job lying about why he was out for so long when he was in rehab. He lost all the mutual friends who were from my side (which was almost all of them). His family thinks he is the problem. So being a good dad seems like this thing he has latched on to. And he’s done way better until this episode (he has to for her to even be fed and clothed without me there).
He hasnt worked for more than a week and his new relationships (three i think in the 4 months since he finally understood hell would freeze over before I touch him again) haven’t stuck. But I figured once he has a life (job and a woman to torture/lie to) he will back off somewhat, because he never wanted to do the work of parenting before. But even yesterday he was talking about wanting 50/50 and asking for it once he has worked his new job for a few months and found a live in girlfriend (!!!!!!).
But I do think sober links would definitely decrease the visits because he clearly can’t stay sober past sunrise.
I feel like a jerk going to court but I can’t fight with him every time he blows drunk or wait for him to refuse and drive off w her.
And yeah, I got the whole I ruined his life song and dance while he cried for like half an hour before I told him to leave or i would call the cops and report the DUI even without the kid in the car making it reckless endangerment. If I have the law behind me when I just tell him to go, I step back from that crazy train again.
Oh please, judge, let me protect my child from this dangerous man.
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DFF, I think we married the same person ...
You sound like you are doing everything right, including making sure that you have PROOF that would be recognized in court as evidence that the other parent is doing things which are harmful. Lots of people parent while drunk - the question is whether the things they do when they're drunk expose the child to harm or neglect.
SoberLink was awesome for me and I hope you get it. The argument I used with my ex is that SoberLink is absolutely neutral and objective. It creates a bright-line distinction - either he tests positive or he doesn't, no argument about how drunk is too drunk. It works for him just like it works for me - if he really is sober all the time, he can use SoberLink to prove that he isn't drinking and that therefore my concerns about his parenting are unfounded.
You sound like you are doing everything right, including making sure that you have PROOF that would be recognized in court as evidence that the other parent is doing things which are harmful. Lots of people parent while drunk - the question is whether the things they do when they're drunk expose the child to harm or neglect.
SoberLink was awesome for me and I hope you get it. The argument I used with my ex is that SoberLink is absolutely neutral and objective. It creates a bright-line distinction - either he tests positive or he doesn't, no argument about how drunk is too drunk. It works for him just like it works for me - if he really is sober all the time, he can use SoberLink to prove that he isn't drinking and that therefore my concerns about his parenting are unfounded.
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“But even yesterday he was talking about wanting 50/50 and asking for it once he has worked his new job for a few months and found a live in girlfriend (!!!!!!).“
So he’s such a fabulous father that he can’t care for his daughter without first installing a live-in girlfriend, as yet to be identified?
Honestly, that’s pretty appalling on multiple levels and it will be worse if it somehow happens: some stranger chosen solely for her willingness to move in with him would be caring for your child?
By all means, take him to court. It doesn’t matter if “he loves her,” his lack of sense makes him completely unqualified to care for her.
Crossing all my fingers that the court will see that, too...
So he’s such a fabulous father that he can’t care for his daughter without first installing a live-in girlfriend, as yet to be identified?
Honestly, that’s pretty appalling on multiple levels and it will be worse if it somehow happens: some stranger chosen solely for her willingness to move in with him would be caring for your child?
By all means, take him to court. It doesn’t matter if “he loves her,” his lack of sense makes him completely unqualified to care for her.
Crossing all my fingers that the court will see that, too...
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Originally Posted by Sasha1972
DFF, I think we married the same person ...
You sound like you are doing everything right, including making sure that you have PROOF that would be recognized in court as evidence that the other parent is doing things which are harmful. Lots of people parent while drunk - the question is whether the things they do when they're drunk expose the child to harm or neglect.
SoberLink was awesome for me and I hope you get it. The argument I used with my ex is that SoberLink is absolutely neutral and objective. It creates a bright-line distinction - either he tests positive or he doesn't, no argument about how drunk is too drunk. It works for him just like it works for me - if he really is sober all the time, he can use SoberLink to prove that he isn't drinking and that therefore my concerns about his parenting are unfounded.
You sound like you are doing everything right, including making sure that you have PROOF that would be recognized in court as evidence that the other parent is doing things which are harmful. Lots of people parent while drunk - the question is whether the things they do when they're drunk expose the child to harm or neglect.
SoberLink was awesome for me and I hope you get it. The argument I used with my ex is that SoberLink is absolutely neutral and objective. It creates a bright-line distinction - either he tests positive or he doesn't, no argument about how drunk is too drunk. It works for him just like it works for me - if he really is sober all the time, he can use SoberLink to prove that he isn't drinking and that therefore my concerns about his parenting are unfounded.
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I’m just about ready to walk into court. We had another insane attempt to pick her up, this time w him in the passenger seat and a new girlfriend to drive so i wouldn’t say no. BAC was even higher. He threatened me. Veiled but still a threat.
I have the timing set for service and all that. Thinking about calling his dad 12 hours before I serve the papers so if he wants to come down and prevent his son from doing something very stupid between papers and hearing he will have a heads up. Not because I think that interfering will do anything about the alcoholism, just because I think the chance that my ex will try to find me and either be rate me or worse would be lower with the only person he has any respect for being around. I already have plans to vacate my house for a couple days.
I have the timing set for service and all that. Thinking about calling his dad 12 hours before I serve the papers so if he wants to come down and prevent his son from doing something very stupid between papers and hearing he will have a heads up. Not because I think that interfering will do anything about the alcoholism, just because I think the chance that my ex will try to find me and either be rate me or worse would be lower with the only person he has any respect for being around. I already have plans to vacate my house for a couple days.
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Originally Posted by DiggingForFire
I’m just about ready to walk into court. We had another insane attempt to pick her up, this time w him in the passenger seat and a new girlfriend to drive so i wouldn’t say no. BAC was even higher. He threatened me. Veiled but still a threat.
I have the timing set for service and all that. Thinking about calling his dad 12 hours before I serve the papers so if he wants to come down and prevent his son from doing something very stupid between papers and hearing he will have a heads up. Not because I think that interfering will do anything about the alcoholism, just because I think the chance that my ex will try to find me and either be rate me or worse would be lower with the only person he has any respect for being around. I already have plans to vacate my house for a couple days.
I have the timing set for service and all that. Thinking about calling his dad 12 hours before I serve the papers so if he wants to come down and prevent his son from doing something very stupid between papers and hearing he will have a heads up. Not because I think that interfering will do anything about the alcoholism, just because I think the chance that my ex will try to find me and either be rate me or worse would be lower with the only person he has any respect for being around. I already have plans to vacate my house for a couple days.
Are you vacating your house to avoid verbal abuse?
Please let us know how you get on and many many prayers for you and your family!
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Good for you, and good plan to vacate the house. Verbal abuse from drunks is not fun, and whether or not he does anything about his threats, you shouldn't have to worry about them.
If his father is a semi-reasonable person and has a clear idea of what his son is like, it is probably a good idea to let him know before the papers are served. If the father is an enabler/minimizer, probably not such a good idea. In either case, do you have a local friend or relative that you could tell about the papers being served? (what I'm suggesting is that you let a friend of yours know [in writing] that you are serving these papers and then leaving town for a few days, and set up a check-in call from you to your friend for the day after the papers are served. If your friend doesn't hear from you, they can alert the police. I know this sounds a bit paranoid, but it might provide some peace of mind as insurance in case things really go south).
Do you know the procedure in your area for obtaining a restraining order or emergency order of protection or whatever it's called where you are? Not saying that you need to obtain one right now, but it's good to know what to do in case there's an escalation.
It sounds like your ex is in the aggressive-boundary-pushing phase - creating a situation which is just on the line between acceptable and unacceptable behavior by showing up drunk to pick up the kid, but with the girlfriend driving so he's not technically driving drunk with the kid in the car. When you respond as any responsible person would (Super Dad is drunk, therefore he's not getting alone time with a child), he has a pretext for berating you, which is the point of the whole setup. From now on anything will become an excuse to get angry and belligerent with you, so unfortunately things will probably get worse before they get better.
You are absolutely doing the right thing.
If his father is a semi-reasonable person and has a clear idea of what his son is like, it is probably a good idea to let him know before the papers are served. If the father is an enabler/minimizer, probably not such a good idea. In either case, do you have a local friend or relative that you could tell about the papers being served? (what I'm suggesting is that you let a friend of yours know [in writing] that you are serving these papers and then leaving town for a few days, and set up a check-in call from you to your friend for the day after the papers are served. If your friend doesn't hear from you, they can alert the police. I know this sounds a bit paranoid, but it might provide some peace of mind as insurance in case things really go south).
Do you know the procedure in your area for obtaining a restraining order or emergency order of protection or whatever it's called where you are? Not saying that you need to obtain one right now, but it's good to know what to do in case there's an escalation.
It sounds like your ex is in the aggressive-boundary-pushing phase - creating a situation which is just on the line between acceptable and unacceptable behavior by showing up drunk to pick up the kid, but with the girlfriend driving so he's not technically driving drunk with the kid in the car. When you respond as any responsible person would (Super Dad is drunk, therefore he's not getting alone time with a child), he has a pretext for berating you, which is the point of the whole setup. From now on anything will become an excuse to get angry and belligerent with you, so unfortunately things will probably get worse before they get better.
You are absolutely doing the right thing.
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Originally Posted by DiggingForFire
Thanks. And yeah, I read your posts and think of you as the Ghost of Christmas Future.
I can say that from this vantage point, I don't regret anything I did while the alcoholic was still alive. I did the same things that you are doing - kept documenting his behavior for court, held a firm line about the presence of alcohol, refused to be goaded into anything regrettable by his belligerence, asked the court for SoberLink-monitored parenting. You won't regret it either.
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(A good counsellor or therapist could really help to reassure you and maintain your sanity through all of this - preferably one who has experience with addicts or domestic abuse/stalking. The dynamics here are very similar, even if his behavior isn't [yet] physically violent or meeting a dictionary definition of stalking).
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Thanks for your thoughts everyone. Yes, I vacated my house mostly to avoid verbal of use but I can’t rule out him trying to hurt me because this is probably the biggest bomb I have thrown. So far today he has lied about not getting the information about the court time, hid from the process server, and called me somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 times. He didn’t actually need to be personally served with the papers so I’m not super worried about it. And the court accepted my server’s declaration that we complied with everything and took my papers so if he wants to show up in court and lie that he didn’t have notice (which is an interesting position if he shows up in court) he is welcome to.
I am less stressed out in the middle of the storm than I was in anticipation, and I just need to keep my head together for the hearing tomorrow.
as far as a counselor, I’ve been trying to get one together for months, but I keep getting duds. The last one would nod a lot and then tell me to write a letter to him and burn it or go scream in a pillow. I feel like I could get that advice from Dr. Phil. So I will try one more time through my insurance or just pay an exorbitant amount for somebody better if the new person in a week does not seem better. But yeah, I am traumatized, scared, and still in a position of having to be the warrior when what I’d really like to be able to do is just focus on healing. I have some really good things in my life and all this BS is keeping the misery front and center even though it is not the main thread of my story. Hiding out in a hotel is making me think about having my kid in a hotel while I was by his side while he was in the hospital during his massive health crisis. It is not a pleasant association. I told her our AC was broken so we are going to stay somewhere with a pool. She is fine with it but it’s not hot today. I don’t think it’s constructive to tell a four-year-old we are hiding because her daddy is ******* terrifying and acting evil.
I am less stressed out in the middle of the storm than I was in anticipation, and I just need to keep my head together for the hearing tomorrow.
as far as a counselor, I’ve been trying to get one together for months, but I keep getting duds. The last one would nod a lot and then tell me to write a letter to him and burn it or go scream in a pillow. I feel like I could get that advice from Dr. Phil. So I will try one more time through my insurance or just pay an exorbitant amount for somebody better if the new person in a week does not seem better. But yeah, I am traumatized, scared, and still in a position of having to be the warrior when what I’d really like to be able to do is just focus on healing. I have some really good things in my life and all this BS is keeping the misery front and center even though it is not the main thread of my story. Hiding out in a hotel is making me think about having my kid in a hotel while I was by his side while he was in the hospital during his massive health crisis. It is not a pleasant association. I told her our AC was broken so we are going to stay somewhere with a pool. She is fine with it but it’s not hot today. I don’t think it’s constructive to tell a four-year-old we are hiding because her daddy is ******* terrifying and acting evil.
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