How to characterize this behavior

Old 05-31-2019, 08:15 PM
  # 101 (permalink)  
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Well I guess he does. Your point?
Originally Posted by AnvilheadII View Post
and............who cares?
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:27 PM
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Medium chill, gray rock, detachment...I know about all of them. How can you do any of them when there’s kids involved and he creates fights involving or revolving around them and their behavior? You can’t just walk away.
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:52 PM
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my point was that he makes a big deal about this trip and you were asked why then bother to take him along?

Because “it’s an obligation”. Translation: I’ll look bad to your family if I don’t go.
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Originally Posted by trailmix View Post
If he hates it and you guys love it, why is he going?


he can feel whatever he feels at any time and any place. so what if he thinks your family thinks any certain thing? has he shown any concern about how you or the chidren feel?

let him be a big boy and feel however he wants and you and the kids GO and do something without dragging the angry elehant with you. surely he doesn't have that much control vou, does he?
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Old 05-31-2019, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Lunchbox1 View Post
Medium chill, gray rock, detachment...I know about all of them. How can you do any of them when there’s kids involved and he creates fights involving or revolving around them and their behavior? You can’t just walk away.
No you can't. That is indeed a no -win situation. No way to control it, no way around it. He has you exactly where he wants you. It's a bully's paradise.

As for the trip, I still don't get it. Why would he look bad to your family if he doesn't go? I mean I wouldn't even be concerned about it, personally, but I don't imagine your family is that enamoured with him either?
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Old 06-01-2019, 03:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Lunchbox1 View Post
Medium chill, gray rock, detachment...I know about all of them. How can you do any of them when there’s kids involved and he creates fights involving or revolving around them and their behavior? You can’t just walk away.
Lunchbox, in another thread you mentioned that you're a psychologist. Are you familiar with the family dynamics of codependency? There's never one problem person, there's always participation of several. With a lot less participation from you, especially all of this defeatist thinking, the codependent system weakens and health begins to take over. How familiar are you with the concept?
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Old 06-01-2019, 07:21 AM
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...


Originally Posted by FallenAngelina View Post
Lunchbox, in another thread you mentioned that you're a psychologist. Are you familiar with the family dynamics of codependency? There's never one problem person, there's always participation of several. With a lot less participation from you, especially all of this defeatist thinking, the codependent system weakens and health begins to take over. How familiar are you with the concept?
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Old 06-01-2019, 07:23 AM
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We aren’t from families that do things without spouses.


Originally Posted by trailmix View Post
No you can't. That is indeed a no -win situation. No way to control it, no way around it. He has you exactly where he wants you. It's a bully's paradise.

As for the trip, I still don't get it. Why would he look bad to your family if he doesn't go? I mean I wouldn't even be concerned about it, personally, but I don't imagine your family is that enamoured with him either?
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Old 06-01-2019, 07:24 AM
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So, your thought is that I have to leave?


[QUOTE=trailmix;7196053]No you can't. That is indeed a no -win situation. No way to control it, no way around it. He has you exactly where he wants you. It's a bully's paradise.


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Old 06-01-2019, 07:25 AM
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Hello Lunchbox,

It certainly sounds like a complicated dynamic. You are the only one in the middle of it and know your family best. You do care, and your decisions are based around that fact.

Whether or not any of you go on this vacation is entirely up to you. If you go, and he goes as well, then I hope you and the children can find a way to enjoy yourselves in spite of your husband's ill humor about the whole thing.

I hope today will be a peaceful one!
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Old 06-01-2019, 07:27 AM
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Thanks for the kind words.

Originally Posted by Seren View Post
Hello Lunchbox,

It certainly sounds like a complicated dynamic. You are the only one in the middle of it and know your family best. You do care, and your decisions are based around that fact.

Whether or not any of you go on this vacation is entirely up to you. If you go, and he goes as well, then I hope you and the children can find a way to enjoy yourselves in spite of your husband's ill humor about the whole thing.

I hope today will be a peaceful one!
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Old 06-01-2019, 09:07 AM
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"Medium chill, gray rock, detachment...I know about all of them."

Saying gently,
there is a difference between knowing something intellectually
and actually implementing it. You have posted many comments
by your h that don't have to do with the kids in which you
could begin to use these techniques. Anger and resentment
however, are the biggest obstacles to using them.

If your husband starts yelling at you and you said "I will not
stay in the same room when you are yelling. We can discuss
when we are calmer". What would he do?
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Old 06-01-2019, 09:55 AM
  # 112 (permalink)  
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So, your thought is that I have to leave?

it IS an option.
so is staying and continuing to be at the target end of his hostility and abuse. that means you and the kids. they don't really have any choice. you seem unwilling to make any changes. you come here and ask for advice, opinions, suggestions, but have shot down each and every one. you can't do this because.....you can't do that because.....or you know all about X and it doesn't work.............so what DO you want? as a psychologist what might you recommend to a patient?
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Old 06-01-2019, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Lunchbox1 View Post
So, your thought is that I have to leave?
No actually, that's not my thought. I believe I asked before if you could leave and you said to me that I don't know your situation.

So I'm assuming, based on what you said to me that it is not an option at all (for whatever reason).

What I am saying above is that if you are staying, you don't have an out, you do actually just have to put up with it.

I mean there are obvious things where if he starts on a rampage you just take the teens and the three of you go sit in a room (door locked) somewhere together away from him. If he then is the type of person that would follow you all and break down a door if it's locked, I see no way around that. So yes, there is no solution to the current situation.

You mention he attacks you verbally and if you won't play he turns to the kids. You have tried everything, as you have mentioned and none of it has worked. So short of leaving, do you see any way to stop him?

He won't change and you won't change (the situation). You are at an impasse.
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Old 06-01-2019, 10:54 AM
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As I said, I can't make any decisions for you--none of us can.

If you could voice it, what would you like to see happen in your marriage?

Given your own experiences with your husband, do you think that achieving that outcome is possible?

If achieving that outcome is not possible, is that acceptable to you--to your children?

If it's not acceptable, what options can you consider?

I don't need to know the answers to these questions, but they might, perhaps, be worth considering.
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Old 06-01-2019, 11:27 AM
  # 115 (permalink)  
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Lunchbox....I get a feeling, based on some of your comments, that there might be some cross-cultural issues concerning marriage.....? Even, perhaps, the cultural pressures of a particular community, or religion, or, even within your own family.
Cultural norms and expectations are very powerful, and we are all impacted by them....and, breaking from them can give rise to a lot of inner conflict and anxiety....
What I am wondering, is this---What if you family knew what kind of abuse you are suffering...would it matter, to them....? Would they have an understanding or compassion.....or, would they just take the "hard line".....?

I know that some families are rigid, and, it comes down to the individual to make the decision to make a break from the traditions in favor of individual survival or personal happiness....(To thine own self be true)….

I myself, came from a region, in the US, where there were very traditional values....and, I had to be the "first one" to ever have had a divorce....Fortunately, I lived several hundred miles away, at that time....
LOl….I remember, one time, many years ago, that I told my mother that I was coming to visit, and, bringing a guy that I was dating, so that she could meet him. My mother called me and said that we couldn't come because one of my cousins had made a big point that an unmarried woman should not travel with a man and certainly should not stay under the same roof, with him, overnight...even if in separate rooms. That my reputation was at stake and that no decent man would ever want me...with that stain on my reputation. (I was divorced, by that time, with three children)….
I told my mother that I was so sorry that they felt that way...but, that the culture in the nation's capitol (Wash,, D.C.)...was very different than that in the deep mountains, where she lived. I wasn't mean or harsh...but...I did tell her that I had hoped to see her, again,....some day. I told her that my reputation was completely in tact...and, that I was very respected, here.
Several months passed....and, finally, my mother said that we were welcome to come visit (and, she wouldn't tell my cousin)….She made the point that we would have separate bedrooms...and, that any "nightwalking" was forbidden.
LOl...that wasn't even a concern of mine, anyway. I will add that I was not living with that particular man...not did I ever live with a man...because I had children. I did live with my future husband,,,,after it was certain that we had a wedding date....so that he could find out what living with the children would be like.
The reason for bringing the guy was that I am terrified to drive a car on the dangerous mountain roads...with sharp curves and dangerous drop-offs. So, I had to have the money to travel by plane....My really nice boyfriend was willing to drive me there....
As it turned out...I did let the boyfriend drive me there...and, my mother was so very charmed by this guy....she was disappointed when I did not marry him.
That was a long time ago...and, since then, there have been other divorces in the large extended family.....Times have changed...and, the older family members have had to accept those societal changes....they didn't like it...but, change does come about and the locusts did not come and the world still is spinning on it's axis....
The young always make modifications of cultural/family norms by living the lives that they NEED to live...rather that being total slaves to tradition.....

Now, I realize that none of this may resonate with you...but, I thought I would throw it out here, anyway.....
If it doesn't apply...please ignore.....
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Old 06-01-2019, 03:47 PM
  # 116 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by dandylion View Post
Lunchbox....I get a feeling, based on some of your comments, that there might be some cross-cultural issues concerning marriage.....? Even, perhaps, the cultural pressures of a particular community, or religion, or, even within your own family.
Cultural norms and expectations are very powerful, and we are all impacted by them....and, breaking from them can give rise to a lot of inner conflict and anxiety....
What I am wondering, is this---What if you family knew what kind of abuse you are suffering...would it matter, to them....? Would they have an understanding or compassion.....or, would they just take the "hard line".....?

I know that some families are rigid, and, it comes down to the individual to make the decision to make a break from the traditions in favor of individual survival or personal happiness....(To thine own self be true)….

I myself, came from a region, in the US, where there were very traditional values....and, I had to be the "first one" to ever have had a divorce....Fortunately, I lived several hundred miles away, at that time....
LOl….I remember, one time, many years ago, that I told my mother that I was coming to visit, and, bringing a guy that I was dating, so that she could meet him. My mother called me and said that we couldn't come because one of my cousins had made a big point that an unmarried woman should not travel with a man and certainly should not stay under the same roof, with him, overnight...even if in separate rooms. That my reputation was at stake and that no decent man would ever want me...with that stain on my reputation. (I was divorced, by that time, with three children)….
I told my mother that I was so sorry that they felt that way...but, that the culture in the nation's capitol (Wash,, D.C.)...was very different than that in the deep mountains, where she lived. I wasn't mean or harsh...but...I did tell her that I had hoped to see her, again,....some day. I told her that my reputation was completely in tact...and, that I was very respected, here.
Several months passed....and, finally, my mother said that we were welcome to come visit (and, she wouldn't tell my cousin)….She made the point that we would have separate bedrooms...and, that any "nightwalking" was forbidden.
LOl...that wasn't even a concern of mine, anyway. I will add that I was not living with that particular man...not did I ever live with a man...because I had children. I did live with my future husband,,,,after it was certain that we had a wedding date....so that he could find out what living with the children would be like.
The reason for bringing the guy was that I am terrified to drive a car on the dangerous mountain roads...with sharp curves and dangerous drop-offs. So, I had to have the money to travel by plane....My really nice boyfriend was willing to drive me there....
As it turned out...I did let the boyfriend drive me there...and, my mother was so very charmed by this guy....she was disappointed when I did not marry him.
That was a long time ago...and, since then, there have been other divorces in the large extended family.....Times have changed...and, the older family members have had to accept those societal changes....they didn't like it...but, change does come about and the locusts did not come and the world still is spinning on it's axis....
The young always make modifications of cultural/family norms by living the lives that they NEED to live...rather that being total slaves to tradition.....

Now, I realize that none of this may resonate with you...but, I thought I would throw it out here, anyway.....
If it doesn't apply...please ignore.....

Love this
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Old 06-03-2019, 07:12 AM
  # 117 (permalink)  
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I found with my XAH I did change some things. I too came from a family who does not do things w/out the spouses. I changed that. I sat down and very honestly told my XAH (AH at the time) that he obviously did not enjoy going, and that I would not be upset at all if he did not go and I felt it would be a lot more pleasant for myself and the kids, so I had made the decision to go alone w/the kids. And I did so. Yes, it was a change, but change is not a bad thing.

I also stopped engaging in the crazy behavior at my own home. For a while I had to actually pick up my kids and leave the house. That got old, so if he was acting crazy or drinking I demanded that he leave the house and do it elsewhere. And that if he would not, I would call the police. While I never had to call the police, it did get the job done to get him out of my house and give us some space for a bit.

A person cannot argue with themselves if no one else participates. Just yesterday my XAH sent me a text about our child. It was not something productive so I ignored him. He then text me and said, "don't you have anything to say?" I responded with this. "I have told you over and over I will only have conversations which are constructive about our children. Therefore, I have nothing to say because your text is nothing constructive at all, please don't text me again." He then text me something smarty pants, which I ignored. Guess what, he did not text me again. Simply because....I refused to engage.

Before, I would have went back and forth with him and this would have went on for HOURS. Nope, I am not giving that sort of control over myself to another person. They run out of steam quite quickly when they simply don't get a response.

I don't know if any of this helps, but they are some coping methods I practice, and my kids learned from me as well. They also won't participate in any crazy listening to their father. They just....don't respond.

If he is verbally abusing you or your children, you need to act. You have a responsibility to protect your children. I am not saying this is the case, I don't know.

Big hugs.
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Old 06-04-2019, 04:16 AM
  # 118 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by hopeful4 View Post
A person cannot argue with themselves if no one else participates.
This is brilliant and merits a highlight.
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Old 06-04-2019, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Lunchbox1 View Post
Because “it’s an obligation”. Translation: I’ll look bad to your family if I don’t go.
WRONG THINKING.
Hard to "get it" but this is one of the fallacies that anyone stuck in addiction, or a[insert negative word of choice] cycle, or dissatisfaction has to accept.

NO is always a complete sentence.
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Old 06-04-2019, 04:24 PM
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Regarding comments made here regarding "functioning" alcoholics, the quote below was posted by an SR member some time ago. I saved the post and would like to share it again now.

I'm not going to be very eloquent here, but when people who aren't in it use the phrase "functioning alcoholic" or imply that the situation isn't that difficult because the alcoholic is able to maintain a job and doesn't beat anyone, or because they "obviously" care for their families, those people are dismissing the biggest parts of what makes humans who we are. The fact that a person can hold a job, can move about the world without stumbling and hurting themselves or others, that they can make a sandwich for their kids - those functions don't make a human a full and complete human. A robot can do all of those things. To truly function, a human has to be able to do more than that, and honestly a human doesn't need to be able to do the things above to be able to "function" as a human being. The other things - like connecting to others with truth - are so much more important. I've come to the realization that there's no such thing as a functioning alcoholic. There may be physically capable alcoholics, but that's as far as I can go.

The part about "connecting to others with truth" was what stopped me in my tracks. My XAH was (and still is, although I don't know for how much longer) a functioning A. And like the post says, he didn't beat me, he held a job, etc. But connecting to me with truth? No. Never in a million years. And I finally decided the rest didn't matter unless that "truth" thing was there.
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