I'd be a screaming wretch too dealing with that crap daily and trying to protect my kids.

People who haven't lived with a mean snarky drunk just don't get it--it's crazy-making.

Are you saving all those texts from him? I hope so, they will
help a judge understand.

This book (very good) will help you categorise behaviours:

Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000Q9J0...ng=UTF8&btkr=1

This--also keep a journal (as suggested above ) objectively detailing date, time, summary of what was said, and maybe record some of his rants at you and / or kids. Certainly, save all toxic texts in a file only you can access.

Many members here have actually had positive outcomes with custody cases by presenting such evidence.

It doesn't mean you have to do anything with it, but a record over time of this kind of abuse does establish a history which could work against him in court.

It also gives you a baseline of what you are dealing with and you will be able to see the escalation of ranting, aggression, and him acting out more as time goes on. That's what alcoholics do as their disease progresses.

Don't doubt this will happen and prepare--it is already happening as another person pointed out--if he continues to drink.

I also vote for documenting. Please keep this in safe, secure place where it would not be found. I used an app that allowed texts to be admissible in court. Where I live, the court would only accept if had the phone number with date/time stamp for each message. It was called export sms - worked for apple and droid.

You are not the only one to look like a screaming wretch while the real trouble maker looks calm as a cucumber. That is what they do.

The descriptors are disrespectful behavior. It's unloving and not standards that a grownup should hold. You may not like it...It is abusive. It took me a long time to realize that in my own husband.
45 minutes is a very long time to be yelled at. I have been in some of my own heated arguments especially this last week.
What are you doing for you and those children? Can you go to the park or out to a friend's when he's two minutes into his anger? That's a boundary. You know it will lead to another 43 minutes.. Are you safe if your step away when he's upset. Go to another room even. My husband will get upset but I've stopped engaging him saying very little if he tries to maintain the anger. I know the that fear of the children being with him.

What judge? When did a judge get involved in this? Future tripping will only cloud your current reality, which pretty much appears to be an abusive relationship.

It is not healthy for you, your kids and your husband to live in this toxicity. It is damaging to the children.

FWIW, in my experiences judges (and lawyers) who have experience with addicts do get it, because it's so common. The trick is getting in front of a judge who can tell that just because someone can clean up for court doesn't mean that they're sane or reasonable. Documenting all the craziness will help you here - he presents as calm and collected BUT you have texts and emails showing that he is not.

My now-deceased ex was something of an alpha male who looked really good in a suit. People gave him a pass on that for a long time. But alcoholism is progressive - and eventually he didn't look so good anymore and didn't make much sense when he talked. Your AH will end up the same if he doesn't get his act together.

I'd be a screaming wretch too dealing with that crap daily and trying to protect my kids.

People who haven't lived with a mean snarky drunk just don't get it--it's crazy-making.

but given that, would it not be better to get AWAY from the "daily crap"? wouldn't it be better for everyone in the household if the two adults who ended up in screaming matches were NOT in the same household? no?

I love your story Reflecting. Besides the planning and grieving, I think most of us take awhile to get to acceptance of what needs to be done. I sure had to go through cycles of denial and realization before I left my AXBF. I know I had it relatively easy.

We are all different and have different paths however there are some truths for us all: take the next right step no matter how small: take care of yourself; do not try to change the alcoholic . . .those kind of things.

Lunchbox, where ever you are in this journey just keep doing the best you can and taking whatever tiny step you can. We will all try to support you to our imperfect best.

:grouphug:

Yes, cycles, but also progression - what is true for you today may not be true tomorrow, feeling trapped can shift into feeling a new sense of possibility ...

Please keep posting Lunchbox! There IS a better future out there for you.

.LunchBox….I am glad to hear that you will consider speaking to a dv c ou nselor, in confidence. You need such a person in your corner...to talk to, if nothing else. Just getting your feelings validated means so much.

Reading through the thousands and stories, here on this forum, all of your fears and concerns are often told stories...from other mothers/women who have walked in your same shoes....

Everything that you say about your husbands "threats" and your fears....were said by my first husband, that I divorced.....After a month of pleading and crying and asking me not to go...…
He remined me that I would never "make it without him"....(I did very nicely)….
He said that he would "take the children from me", if I asked for child support to be increased, etc)…..(that did not happen)….

These threats are very, very common.....and, usually do not take place. They are often said to scare us...and, it works, if one lets them....
Not I know you are thinking that y our husband is narcissistic and we don't understand.
My husband was narcissistic and a jerk and he wasn't even an alcoholic!
I had a lawyer who told me to let him do all of the negotiating with my husband's lawyer. My lawyer was a Godsend.
I have known lots of divorced women with kids...and, they report many of the same things.
For one thing...they learn, quickly, that kids take time and effort...and, having them cuts into their drinking time....so, they usually don't see the kids as often as they are allowed.

Fortunately, your kids are teens. With cellphones, these days, the kids can call you, if th eir father becomes drunk...or abusive....
If he is/has been abusive to the kids...this is something that you need to take up with a counselor...like the dv counselor, for example, who can advise you how to handle this case...
Lunchbox...you are going to need some Peeps in your corner...at least, a lawyer and an experienced counselor, in the field of abuse....
Like Bekindalways said....you can begin to take baby steps, now....you can begin to make plans and to learn as much as you can about your rights and his rights. Knowledge is power!
You can enlist your Peeps, behind you...and, your husband doesn't need to know.
I am going to give you the following link to a website that is educational, about divorce. It is listed by state....It can help you to organize your thought and questions for when you do see a lawyer/counselor....
This is a time to lean on other people....as, this is just too hard to walk alone....

www.womansdivorce.com

I kicked my XAH out when my kids were young teens. Yes, at first they were occasionally stuck spending time with their drunken father. However, like others have described, narcissistic drunks aren't able to keep this up. Trying to stay a little bit sober when the kids visit for the weekend was pretty much impossible for my XAH and most other XAHs I have heard of. It was sooner, rather than later, when my XAH started "feeling sick" whenever it was his weekend with the kids, so the kids stayed with me.

My XAH threatened me for years and years about what he would tell "the judge" when we divorced: "I'm gonna show the judge that awful email you sent to me on June 25 2001 and then you'll see who gets the kids! You just wait. I'll get the house too. Loser. If it wasn't for me you'd have no career! I made you this life!".:lmao

We never went in front of any judge. I got the kids. I bought him out of his half of the house. I am financially better off without him than with him.

Perhaps if we'd stayed married we may have been better off financially? Who knows? I do believe though, that I'd be a wretched, ruined shrew by now. Maybe a heart attack or a stroke? I sometimes thought that it would be better if I wasn't around any more...that was truly very sick, co-dependent thinking :headbange

I thought my kids would resent me for breaking up our family. I apologized to them hundreds of times. They never resented me. They tell me now that it was the best thing for all of us. They were no longer walking on eggshells or scared of the yelling and the angry adults.

You have the power to stop living like you are. You really do. I promise you, the grass is WAY greener on the other side. WAY.

It's true, you do have the power, you just don't realize it yet.

You believe him when he tells you these negative things. He is no more "powerful" than you are. You are his equal, you are not less than, he is not "smarter" or a better planner or speaker or - anything.

Never forget, if he is a true NPD, what you see on the outside is all fuss and bother and talk. Inside they are empty, there is no fuel in that tank that doesn't come from the outside. By you and the children being there you provide him with that fuel, take that away and he has nothing to run on.

From what you have described the teens are quite capable of standing their own ground, so I wouldn't worry too much about leaving them in his care - if he even bothers to show up for his allotted custody. Imagine if he were given the freedom to choose between drinking all day or having the two teens visit, what's he going to choose? Even if he just wants to get back at you, he's not going to choose the heartwarming family get-together.

They have to be there anyway and from the sounds of it you can no more protect them when you are there than you can if you are out. They always have the option of just going to their rooms when visiting.

No judge is going to listen to him ramble. No judge is going to be prepared to listen to some man who feels he has been "done wrong" unless he has a legal leg to stand on. The law is not about emotion and feelings and rantings and ravings, it's about law.

There are different ways to think about this Lunchbox, perhaps it's time for a different viewpoint. You are not powerless.

We all know even with alimony and child support, women end up poorer in a divorce.

that is simply untrue. and that is the type of "reinforcement argument" you are using to stay stuck.

you are not protecting your children by being there. you and your AH have a very toxic unhealthy interaction with put downs and screaming matches. if you were not in that situation you could have a calmer more peaceful environment. the teenage children would not be subjected to the toxic dynamics 24/7. you would not be a target for his anger.

you do have options. you would need to set aside your preconceived notions and go forward with an open mind.

I agree with the others who say that if having teenagers around cramps his freedom to drink at will, he probably won't be too keen to have them around much.

And with respect to poverty - women and children may be poorer after divorce, but you can rebuild from there. If he keeps getting worse, you're going to end up poor because you're stuck with an alcoholic using up all the family resources, so it's economically precarious no matter what you do. On your own, at least you have a chance to rebuild.

(FWIW I thought I was going to be badly off financially when I left ex, but found that it was not nearly as bad as I had thought - and that I was actually better off on my own. I had not realized how much $$ was going into alcohol, and he had handled the family accounts because I "wasn't good with numbers". It was a real revelation. You may not be as badly off as you fear).

I haven't read all of the replies yet, but wanted to say that yes, it is very abusive behavior. Alcohol isn't helping. Reading that really brought me back to my old posts. It won't end, even if you ignore- like you said he will pick a fight for ignoring him, and calling him on his antics will also cause a fight.


Dandylion I will quote:
"it is like death by a thousand paper cuts"