How to characterize this behavior
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
Originally Posted by Lunchbox1 
My original request was how to explain why this behavior is a
problem; I don’t want to focus on what people think I should do about meetings, this marriage, etc. sorry if I misdirected the convo. I’m trying to put my finger on what’s wrong with it.
He’s very slippery, often going up to but not crossing an obvious line, and he should have been a lawyer in terms of how well he argues himself free from culpability. So: you think it’s abuse because it’s a stream of criticism. You think he’s trying to provoke me: I do too but I can’t read his mind. Whether or not he is, the texts are irritating and I want to label why.
problem; I don’t want to focus on what people think I should do about meetings, this marriage, etc. sorry if I misdirected the convo. I’m trying to put my finger on what’s wrong with it.
He’s very slippery, often going up to but not crossing an obvious line, and he should have been a lawyer in terms of how well he argues himself free from culpability. So: you think it’s abuse because it’s a stream of criticism. You think he’s trying to provoke me: I do too but I can’t read his mind. Whether or not he is, the texts are irritating and I want to label why.
It is criticism. It is not done in a loving way, it's controlling and belittling.
If you get some counseling it will help you.
Trust your instincts not his words.
Are you just looking for something to say to him to make him stop? Because we don't have that answer.
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
My original request was how to explain why this behavior is a
problem;
problem;
He’s very slippery, often going up to but not crossing an obvious line
So: you think it’s abuse because it’s a stream of criticism. You think he’s trying to provoke me: I do too but I can’t read his mind. Whether or not he is, the texts are irritating and I want to label why.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
Originally Posted by biminiblue
It is criticism. It is not done in a loving way, it's controlling and belittling.
It's difficult to nail down because it's not obvious, overt taunting. "You're fat/stupid/lazy!".... it's more passive-aggressive, but I'm betting the drunker he gets the less passive it becomes?
It's the frog-in-the-pot of water type of emotional abuse, IMO.
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Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 11
Perhaps it’s irritating because it sounds to me like he’s being a finger-pointing, entitled, lazy, hypocrite? Marriage, and in particular parenting, is supposed to be a partnership, and it doesn’t sound like he’s off working hard during these text fits, rather instead laying about drinking. Maybe next time you should text back something like “Instead of spending your time texting me, feel free to take care of any of this stuff yourself.”
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Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 319
Originally Posted by Lunchbox1
My original request was how to explain why this behavior is a
problem; I don’t want to focus on what people think I should do about meetings, this marriage, etc. sorry if I misdirected the convo. I’m trying to put my finger on what’s wrong with it.
He’s very slippery, often going up to but not crossing an obvious line, and he should have been a lawyer in terms of how well he argues himself free from culpability. So: you think it’s abuse because it’s a stream of criticism. You think he’s trying to provoke me: I do too but I can’t read his mind. Whether or not he is, the texts are irritating and I want to label why.
problem; I don’t want to focus on what people think I should do about meetings, this marriage, etc. sorry if I misdirected the convo. I’m trying to put my finger on what’s wrong with it.
He’s very slippery, often going up to but not crossing an obvious line, and he should have been a lawyer in terms of how well he argues himself free from culpability. So: you think it’s abuse because it’s a stream of criticism. You think he’s trying to provoke me: I do too but I can’t read his mind. Whether or not he is, the texts are irritating and I want to label why.
He sounds like a mean drunk, but yet he has enough presence of mind not to cross certain lines (yet), so he’s manipulative too.
As far as abuse, I’ve gotten some great info from a self defense author and teacher, Marc MacYoung. The way he explains violence makes sense to me. Basically, it takes on many forms, levels and intentions. Think of it as a “road to violence” instead of an act (“a punch”). It’s more of a process, “how far down the road” you are.
Verbal and emotional abuse (criticism, name calling, yelling, berating, put downs, etc) would be “lower markers”; physical violence would be “higher markers” and further down the road (and that also has levels- lower level physical would be things like a slap; mid level punches and kicking, using a weapon to hit someone/ beating them with something like a belt, for example; highest level marker would be homicide).
So basically it sounds he’s gotten comfortable with the verbal/ emotional abuse (damaging and abusive in and of itself), and it seems to me like the path he’s on is not leading to anywhere good..
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
Originally Posted by atalose
Because they are hurtful, uncaring and unloving.
A tool that helped me with this in text/conversations was to switch the pronouns/nouns.
So, if he talked about "me", I read it as "him".....
"What are you doing to get the kids in bed on time?" = "I'm not doing anything to get the kids in bed on time"....
"You're being unreasonable" = "I'm being unreasonable", stuff like that.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2017
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This morning I simply said, “I didn’t appreciate your text messages last night.”.
Him: “I didn’t appreciate that things were not getting done.Sorry”
Me:”I accept your apology.”.
Yes I know he was saying sorry not sorry; I decided to respond like he was really apologizing because he should have been, and my response isn’t JADEing my position, it’s implying that I took what he said as an apology because he SHOULD be apologizing.
Him: “I didn’t appreciate that things were not getting done.Sorry”
Me:”I accept your apology.”.
Yes I know he was saying sorry not sorry; I decided to respond like he was really apologizing because he should have been, and my response isn’t JADEing my position, it’s implying that I took what he said as an apology because he SHOULD be apologizing.
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Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 395
“...why this behavior is a
problem?”
I was the King recipient of a million “criticizing” texts from rude to mean to verbally abusive... sent by my XAGF.
Let’s just break it down... take out the addiction/alcohol... would this be healthy behavior in a non-addictive relationship? In my opinion, absolutely not.
The behavior is a problem because healthy communication isn’t about sending rude or criticizing texts to one another, when you’re both in the same house... at the same time.
It’s both destructive & controlling. And yes, abusive. Texting (in my opinion) has honestly become such a problematic issue in dysfunctional relationships... & mine was certainly that! It’s a quick excuse to be mean or to make a hurtful point... & the sender loves that you’ll read it over & over, feeling the hurt or criticism the more times you read it. UGH.
The magnitude of repetitive toxic behavior will begin to destroy your soul. It starts with dishes... & then snowballs.
In my opinion & experience, there’s absolutely no reason to break down why he does this? Or what it means? I did that constantly. He does this because he’s an addict! Looking too deep into his destructive patterns is irrelevant. It’s about you... & what your boundaries are. If you don’t like it... it’s wrong. If it’s hurtful to you, it’s wrong.
problem?”
I was the King recipient of a million “criticizing” texts from rude to mean to verbally abusive... sent by my XAGF.
Let’s just break it down... take out the addiction/alcohol... would this be healthy behavior in a non-addictive relationship? In my opinion, absolutely not.
The behavior is a problem because healthy communication isn’t about sending rude or criticizing texts to one another, when you’re both in the same house... at the same time.
It’s both destructive & controlling. And yes, abusive. Texting (in my opinion) has honestly become such a problematic issue in dysfunctional relationships... & mine was certainly that! It’s a quick excuse to be mean or to make a hurtful point... & the sender loves that you’ll read it over & over, feeling the hurt or criticism the more times you read it. UGH.
The magnitude of repetitive toxic behavior will begin to destroy your soul. It starts with dishes... & then snowballs.
In my opinion & experience, there’s absolutely no reason to break down why he does this? Or what it means? I did that constantly. He does this because he’s an addict! Looking too deep into his destructive patterns is irrelevant. It’s about you... & what your boundaries are. If you don’t like it... it’s wrong. If it’s hurtful to you, it’s wrong.
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He punished me for the last interaction by launching into me about when I was going to talk to them about respecting him when he asks them to do things, and why I “unilaterally decided” (another hated phrase) to postpone our financial discussion.
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"Should" is a very dangerous word in terms of relationships and expectations, disappointment and hurt...and it can keep any of us participating in an unhealthy and vicious cycle. It's so common for any of us in a dysfunctional dynamic, but IMO necessary to change.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,411
So he has the right to "punish" you like a child?
And if you don't engage, to attack your children?
Isn't this more than irritating?
Adults have discussions and reason with each other.
They listen and negotiate their points of view and values.
They compromise.
That's a partnership. Sounds like you are in more of a dictatorship.
And if you don't engage, to attack your children?
Isn't this more than irritating?
Adults have discussions and reason with each other.
They listen and negotiate their points of view and values.
They compromise.
That's a partnership. Sounds like you are in more of a dictatorship.
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Location: USA
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Look up "gray rocking" someone. That is what I did to my XAH and it worked like a charm. He usto do all of this, I told him one time that I am only going to converse with him about constructive conversations regarding our children. Key word, constructive. Then, I did just that. I 100% ignore the rest. Eventually he stopped doing it except a couple of times a year. It takes crazy self control not to get roped in, but it's worth it!
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 224
IMHO, when you feel so "irritated" by someone else's behavior that IS the red flag that no matter what it is labeled, the situation is unhealthy for you.
For me, I did not register how abusive my situation was until I was actually out of it and could breathe.
For me, I did not register how abusive my situation was until I was actually out of it and could breathe.
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LunchBox…...I think that when you said the word "label"....it might have been better to have said that you wanted to "understand".....this is what I hear you saying---(correct me, if I am wrong)…..You would like to understand why you feel something bad, inside, when he micromanages your parenting/domestic responsibilities...thus, it follows, that if it has a name...then you can understand it....and, if you can understand it,,,,you can manage it or control how it makes you feel....and, if you can manage it....you can keep the marriage....and, if you keep the marriage, you can keep your own status-quo....and, feel happy and not have that bad feeling, inside....
Lol...I think I gave you the "word/label" for it....it is called DEFLECTION. Remember that it is a major tool in The Alcoholic's Handbook....lol. It is also used, a lot by others, who are not alcoholics.
The thing about deflection is that it is usually directed toward our vulnerable areas (that is why it works so well for the alcoholic)….it is directed toward our tender, vulnerable underbellies.
It is like a sharp knife that cuts directly into our own ego...our self esteem..our sense of pride...our self confidence. It hurts like hell...or, "irritating", to use your words.
I think it is normal to feel the way you do, when you are the recipient of his sharp words....
I am going to go out on a limb and say that I think that you have a part of your self...deep down...that has enough natural self preservation to sense that this is not right---that what he says to you is just not right....
Now, I realize that you want to know what to do.....I think it might help. to a certain extent, if you can remember to not JADE...Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain. Because doing so just pours more gasoline on the fire. Like someone else said...engaging with him just reinforces his behavior.
Not JADEing, may make things a little more bearable for you.
Since he is an alcoholic, he won't completely stop it. And, he won't stop it when he is sober, either...not COMPLETELY.
In addition to not JADING...it will help you to detach as much as you can, from him and his behaviors.....there are several techniques to detaching...and, we can help you with these techniques (too much for me to type, right now...lol...my fingers are getting tired)…..
My story---my first husband--the father of my three children did the same kind of thing...and, he wasn't even an alcoholic!
It is normal to feel the way you do when he says these things to you
Lol...I think I gave you the "word/label" for it....it is called DEFLECTION. Remember that it is a major tool in The Alcoholic's Handbook....lol. It is also used, a lot by others, who are not alcoholics.
The thing about deflection is that it is usually directed toward our vulnerable areas (that is why it works so well for the alcoholic)….it is directed toward our tender, vulnerable underbellies.
It is like a sharp knife that cuts directly into our own ego...our self esteem..our sense of pride...our self confidence. It hurts like hell...or, "irritating", to use your words.
I think it is normal to feel the way you do, when you are the recipient of his sharp words....
I am going to go out on a limb and say that I think that you have a part of your self...deep down...that has enough natural self preservation to sense that this is not right---that what he says to you is just not right....
Now, I realize that you want to know what to do.....I think it might help. to a certain extent, if you can remember to not JADE...Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain. Because doing so just pours more gasoline on the fire. Like someone else said...engaging with him just reinforces his behavior.
Not JADEing, may make things a little more bearable for you.
Since he is an alcoholic, he won't completely stop it. And, he won't stop it when he is sober, either...not COMPLETELY.
In addition to not JADING...it will help you to detach as much as you can, from him and his behaviors.....there are several techniques to detaching...and, we can help you with these techniques (too much for me to type, right now...lol...my fingers are getting tired)…..
My story---my first husband--the father of my three children did the same kind of thing...and, he wasn't even an alcoholic!
It is normal to feel the way you do when he says these things to you
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Originally Posted by Lunchbox1
He punished me for the last interaction by launching into me about when I was going to talk to them about respecting him when he asks them to do things, and why I “unilaterally decided” (another hated phrase) to postpone our financial discussion.
For me that made it all seem manageable somehow. If alcohol is the reason for the bad behavior, then removing alcohol from the equation will fix (not everything, even in my denial I tried to be realistic, lol) but many, if not most things.
My ex _hated_ talking about money. The reality of how much he spent at bars, liquor stores, etc. was not something he wanted to face. Of course he loved to blame "money stress" for his behavior because he was "paying for everything." But anytime I offered to sit down and look over finances with him, there was never an opportune moment. If there was an opportune moment, he made sure to create a distraction- starting a fight, criticizing me and the kids, whatever it took to avoid the money talk.
Al Anon techniques- walking away, "you may be right,"- didn't work. If he wanted conflict, there was going to be conflict. If I tried not engaging, he would escalate, involve the kids, go however low he had to stoop to get his fight. That was my wake up call that his behavior was deliberate and calculated, rather than "just" alcoholism.
Reading the chapter on chemically dependent abusers in Lundy Bancroft's book Why Does He Do That helped me navigate the way I dealt with him.
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Originally Posted by Lunchbox1
He punished me for the last interaction by launching into me about when I was going to talk to them about respecting him when he asks them to do things, and why I “unilaterally decided” (another hated phrase) to postpone our financial discussion.
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
Well, to me the texts you’ve described are irritating because they sound like they’re coming from a pompous non-recovering drunk with acute short-man syndrome who loves to point out how everyone else is Doing It Wrong when he’s safely behind a keyboard, but can’t be arsed to actually help. I would file them under Deflection/Equalization/Unnecessary Criticism if I were feeling generous and under Waste of Oxygen if I were not.
But perhaps the reason they irritate you is different from the reason they irritate me and there’s some other dynamic that is being expressed here?
But perhaps the reason they irritate you is different from the reason they irritate me and there’s some other dynamic that is being expressed here?
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