involved

And I do know it! I feel like I flunked al anon 101! How to help an alcoholic? Mind your own business and work your own program! But( and yes I know what comes out of a but) insidiously cunning and baffling it...I had put up a boundary that the Alcoholic (2&1/2 hrs sober who suffers a brain injury and doesn’t take his Zoloft consistently) didn’t like so called his sponsor looking for sympathy and was counseled to quit the relationship because he (the sponsor) is happier not being in relationships! This guy goes to al anon meetings and I have heard him give this advise to others and overheard it on the phone that night...! This put me in a tailspin of fear and anger! So I contacted the sponsor to ask to talk...ie tell my side of the story ����*♂️Let him know that the alcoholic has not told him the whole story and was only having a pity party and playing victim! To which the sponsor invited me to the alanon meeting he started and runs. I took him up on his offer AND chaired the meeting! After the meeting the sponsor wanted a chat and pretty much argued with me that I needed to leave the relationship because I was being treated badly! And regardless of program as long as Alcoholic and I are together I am accepting unacceptable behavior! And the single life works for him! Ok so page 50 in the ODAT talks about giving this kind of advice....and I am thankful that Lois didn’t kick Bill to the curb....I spoke to my sponsor wise as she is and she told me to enjoy MY day and between the lines, to mind MY own business...which I am thankful for her! That crap scared me and pissed me off and caused great uncertainty for the moment...I feel like his sponsor is undermining recovery work for both of us!. The lesson is keep coming back I guess... blast away cuz I deserve it!

Mango212

You don't deserve it. It sounds like a toxic sponsor and group.

We do what we do until we learn new skills. Life skills. Spiritual skills. Interpersonal skills. Really big: self-love skills.

(((hugs)))

Al-Anon is a wonderful program. As in nature full of storms, sunshine, rain, wildflowers, evergreens and poison ivy, part of the experience of life is experiencing all sorts of things and then deciding each day what we like having in our life.

Vent away. Lean in. Enjoy the relationship you have with your sponsor.

SparkleKitty

Well, you can't control what the sponsor does or says any more than you can control what the alcoholic does or says, you can only define and maintain your boundaries to protect your own peace of mind.

No one actually leaves a relationship because someone told them to--that person only validated their own belief that they should have done that already.

atalose

Kind of like what he may have been feeling being 2 ½ hours sober.

What kind of recovery work could he actually be doing if he was only 2 ½ hours sober?

I agree with Sparklekitty, you can’t control his sponsor any more than you can control him.

Focus on your own recovery, detaching from the chaos of active alcoholism and don’t’ try and look to far down the road, just focus on today.

involved

Oops 2 1/2 YEARS sober...maybe the moderator can fix that?

atalose

That makes more sense! but still keep on your own side of the street and focus on you and your recovery.

Progress not perfection!!!

involved

Thank you guys...Mango that was so kind...I felt that hug! Love the analogy of nature and life! So true!

FallenAngelina

Is it common to meet with the sponsor of one's partner? I haven't heard of that before. It sounds like a breach of confidentiality mixed with conflict of interest - on both sides. I don't get it.

trailmix

Hi involved, nice to meet you!

Well, that all sounds very dramatic! In fact it sounds like a soap opera!

So you two have a conversation and he disagrees with you and runs to the phone to call his sponsor? Am I understanding that correctly?

I don't know much about AA but is that normal? I mean I know what I have read, but I didn't know you called your sponsor if you have a disagreement with your spouse/SO? I don't know, that seems odd to me.

He is a grown man and he is 2.5 years in to recovery, can you two not just sit down and talk about it? Apparently not, now that is a problem. Perhaps some couples therapy is in order? Some guidance so you two can communicate more openly and calmly?

Just a thought there, hope you are doing ok now.

I would like to know what the boundary was (if you want to share that, if not, of course that is ok as well!).

dandylion

I like what SparkleKitty said....that "No one actually leaves a relationship because someone told them to"......that matches my own experience....

schnappi99

Nah, that sponsor failed Alanon 101, not you. Somebody throwing their weight around like that is not cool. I think he also failed AA 101- as a sponsor of someone in a relationship with you, he should not be speaking to you at all. There are no sides of the story that are pertinent here. The recovery response to such a phone call is to cut the conversation short and suggest you talk to your sponsor about it- or put you touch with an Alanon of your same gender. Regardless, he should stay entirely out of it.

The perilous nature of giving advise is often addressed in the Alanon literature.

Frankly the prospect of an AA running an Alanon meeting is disturbing and a big red flag. Around here double-winners can serve in some positions; literature, program chair, greeter and so on, but cannot be group rep or be responsible for a meeting. It costs us some help but its is important to be highly disciplined in this area. I've met many alanons who are <very> sensitive to addict/alcoholic issues and are profoundly disturbed by them. Double winners need to be circumspect in how they share and some meetings are aggressive about taking people aside after the meeting to discuss commentary that goes too far.

involved

Thanks Schnappi. I appreciate your perspective on this. All that you said about AA’s and Al-Anons is true here as well! I knew better than to do what I did...but The panic got the better of me and I reacted. Talked myself right into it without conferring with my sponsor or anyone! Oh boy oh boy I was gonna march over there and set the record straight! Rookie thing to do! First time I met this guy was at an Al-Anon meeting I had just started going to. I was conflicted because I truly enjoyed that meeting and the level of program in that room! I conferred with my sponsor but never got any clear guidance from her. I decided that since I go to a couple other meetings that there was no need for me to share at this one but I could still go and keep my mouth shut! Not long after this guy and a couple more AA’s that were in the room, disappeared...and a new meeting popped up at the “Recovery Club” that this guy works at. I think they ran the A.A. out of our meetings and so he got them their own...the club is predominately A.A. and NA and the Al Anon meetings are not gaining much popularity. I did not like how he worked his program back then and the red flags included the 13th step! So this freak out had been in the works for me I guess...I have also heard it said in the rooms of A.A. beware when giving relationship advice to an A.A..
Thanks for taking ththe time for me!

Mango212

It's not about what we did yesterday for our recovery, it's what we're doing for it today. Ease. Kindness. Curiosity.

Keeping an open mind and staying on my side of the road creates new growth.

Double winners are a core part of many of the Al-Anon groups I attend. One simply wouldn't know this unless also going to open AA meetings.

Many new meetings are created by a resentment. This can come to be a good thing for the growth of recovery groups. Often things play out in illogical ways. It can be seen as good, bad, or pausing and stepping away from any judgement of it at all.

involved

August252015

EEP! Involved, I read this and am so sorry for how this situation has happened. Yes, you did the wrong thing by contacting his sponsor but the rest of it, so to speak, isn't ok.

Interesting to read y'all's comments about us alcoholics going to al anon. I have been "saving" it for this yr or next (this is my 4th year, here at 3yr and change sober) as I know I need to do it in order to explore that aspect of my family history and relationships with my mom and such. BUT. I trusted my first sponsor's advice to wait on exploring that side of my recovery and indeed, now, feel that I am close to the maturity in my AA program to be going to Al Anon too. I'm a pretty dedicated AA person tho so I am uncertain about my ability to "leave my other program" at the door! Thanks for that reminder.

And just as another $0.02 - my husband and I are both in recovery. Neither of us would ever contact the other's sponsor unless it was a true ICE like some kind of that minute intervention. We do talk to each other about *some* stuff that we do with our sponsors and talk about, but there is definitely a boundary. I can't imagine my sponsor or his violating that boundary by contacting the other one of us either.

Take care of yourself.

FallenAngelina

We have many crossover members in my AlAnon groups and people do sometimes mention being a double winner or a participant in another 12 Step program. I've heard many AA people say that they took their recovery to another level by practicing the AlAnon program. In my experience, AA members enrich the AlAnon meetings and their presence is always welcome. You don't have to hide yourAA membership at all, just keep the focus on what AlAnon is all about.

schnappi99

@involved- I figured the 13th step would show up sooner or later if he's making relationship recommendations.... Some meetings are flat out sick and run by sick people. I say let him have his resentment and coffee maker meeting and be better off with your sponsor. I've heard of meetings that get really bad to the point that WSO hears about them- thankfully our district doesn't have any like that.

For my money Alanon is better off with AA's, NA's, whatever-A's participating. The perspective of the addict/alcoholic in recovery is vitally important- but the fragile condition of some Alanons particularly those in early recovery has to be kept in mind at all times. The Alanon singleness of purpose is important in meetings, and could use more emphasis outside. An AA friend of mine picked up his group's institutional commitment- once a month in rotation around rehabs, hospitals and so on around the city. I go in with him and make the Alanon pitch, many folks in there have never heard of Alanon and some people respond powerfully to it- so many addicts/alcoholics have similarly troubled friends/family. He's taught me a lot of compassion for the addict, and the courage to stand up in front of a crowd & pitch the message hard and concise without a microphone.

involved

I like that ...hard and concise without a microphone!

FallenAngelina

In my experience, every single alcoholic qualifies for AlAnon membership. Alcoholism doesn't spring up out of nowhere, there's always some deep codependence in the hinterground and where that lurks, alcohol (or some similar addiction) is not far behind. I have never met one alcoholic who did not come out of a troubled family.

NYCDoglvr

It was hard lifting for me to:

a) stop offering unsolicited advice
b) learn to say mentally "it's none of my business"
c) keep to my own program and let others follow their own path
d) stop taking other people's inventory

It's still a work in progress, sometimes I slip up and have to apologize, but the more I practice the easier it gets. God bless Alanon........