kimberly702

YES YES YES to this, thank you! This is exactly what I will use to judge this situation. Is he doing the work to change his life skills, stress management. He has so far been navigating his life by putting out fires and not attacking the source. Thank you for putting my concerns into REAL/EXPLAINABLE words!

kimberly702

1> Birth control is all sorted. I feel the same way you do.

2> I have totally let the length of our relationship influence my decision. I AM caught up in how much effort I've put into him, justify my staying.

Thank you for this guidance. This is exactly why I joined.

kimberly702

My heart hurts while reading this, but only because I know you understand and speak the truth. Do you have any regrets about losing the love of your life? Did he ever become sober?

FeelingGreat

hi Kimberley, most people on this forum have been with partners who did not recover. If your BF does become permanently sober (and he's right about having to stop altogether) then I'd say you do have a future with him. It's a huge risk though, especially as he's living so far away and you have no idea whether he's telling the truth.

It often takes As many years and attempts to stop drinking, and they're the lucky ones, but maybe he's experienced that magical ray of light that makes it possible.

He may have started drinking as a way of coping with his childhood traumas, but alcohol can be addictive on its own. Some people become dependent and can break the habit, others have real addiction that can eventually lead to death.

If you do decide to give him a chance, hedge your risks. Don't get pregnant, or financially dependent on him, or trapped into 'looking after' him. Stay on your side of the fence.

kimberly702

You are right: Today, I am dating a person who has cheated on me, lied to me about all types of things and is an alcoholic who has relapsed. THAT IS WHAT HE IS.

So far, I have fully stepped -back from our 'normal relationship'. WE remain BF-GF but I am not involved in his dailies at all. This is by my request. Are you meaning, fully detaching i.e break up/ break contact?

Your views on empathy will remain in my heart forever. Thank you

kimberly702

You've hit the nail on the head. I've also told him that he seems totally fine when we are together, but when we're apart all hell breaks loose. It seems it will spill over into our time too one day.

I've never really thought of the process like this. You and a few others have made me realise that this will be an emotionally exhausting journey and it is actually beneficial for him to not have any distractions. And yes, once he is sober (if), he could be a whole new person with different views on life and values. It seems he needs TIME to grow into this new him. I can fully respect that. And it actually makes me feel better, because at the end of the day I was scared that leaving would be the WRONG thing to do. But, now I see that this is the best thing to do for us both.

And finally, you are so right. If my love was going to save him, he would've been the healthiest, happiest chap on the face of the Earth because I love him with everything I have. My hopes and dreams, and my whole heart.

Thank you SO much. This feels like the warmest hug and the most sincere advice I could have asked for. FROM ALL OF YOU LOVELY PEOPLE. YOU MEAN THE WORLD TO ME!

kimberly702

I cannot imagine a life of keeping my partner and PARTS of him at an arms length away. I long for a partner who is my team mate. Someone who I can trust with my life, no matter what time of day it is. I don't believe is magic, I believe in patterns and honestly I am naively shocked at how many of the stories on here sound like my partner.

In good news, I make every possible step to not get pregnant, I am extremely set on being financially independent (my mother has drilled that into me for years, thank you mom).

Thank you for you input

OpheliaKatz

I just want to highlight these things that Sasha said. They are really important.

Now to answer your question: would I have left if I could turn back the clock?

Well... I eventually did leave. But I left 10 years too late. I should have left after the first date. The healthiest thing for either of us to have done was to not be together, because an active addict is going to make any relationship toxic until they are able to get into recovery (and make it stick).

FallenAngelina

Recovering alcoholics will tell you that a common, if not pervasive, characteristic of an active alcoholic is the stubborn insistence on going it alone, believing that groups cannot help and having to do it "my way." Breaking through this maverick persona is one of the elements of Step 1 and indeed, of walking into a recovery program at all. Letting go of the lone wolf routine and giving oneself over to the wisdom of others (and in most cases, a higher power) is THE entry hurdle for active alcoholics and it's a high hurdle indeed.

What has helped turn things for me is the education I'm getting from others who love an alcoholic. I am coming to see that most, if not all, of the issues I experienced with my XABF were not unique to our relationship, but aspects of alcoholism. Every single problem we had is written out, again and again, in the pages of this forum. This helps me come to understand that no matter how genuine my intentions, no matter how deep our love, alcoholism has a pattern and consequences that are far more powerful than I. (Which is Step 1 in AlAnon, BTW.)

FallenAngelina

There's a name for this: The Sunk Cost Fallacy.


The Misconception: You make rational decisions based on the future value of objects, investments and experiences.

The Truth: Your decisions are tainted by the emotional investments you accumulate, and the more you invest in something the harder it becomes to abandon it.

atalose

Yes, 3 years into this relationship and so much toxic behaviors on his part it’s very hard coming back from that, if ever.

Something I read and will always remember is…………….

A relationship without trust is like a car without gas you can stay in it all you want, but it won’t go anywhere.

Can you really trust that he won’t drink again, trust that he won’t cheat again, trust that he won’t lie to you anymore. Those are awfully big trust issues hurdles to get over especially in a long distance relationship.

You say you have allowed the length of your relationship to influence your decision. That you are caught up in how much effort you’ve put into him that justifies you staying. Have you seriously asked yourself how much effort has he put into you? Not clouding that answer with the fantasy of what you want but with the actual painful hard truth to accept.

A mistake is an accident. Cheating and lying are not mistakes! They are intentional choices.

FireSprite

I would never turn back the clock because I'd never un-do having my DD.... and I think a lot of us feel that way when our situations involve more than just ourselves. (even shared property/liabilities & things like that can convolute a situation)

But - if I had known better about the red flags & been more recovered myself (or less damaged to begin with), then yes, I'd have walked away before getting in too deep, absolutely, because that's what "healthy" people do. It probably wouldn't have been a Big Deal either - I'd have not spent much time analyzing it & just moved on to something/someone more in line with my own energy.

PHIL39

Nah, you can't change anyone, having a loving relationship means you feel safe to be genuine. It just sounds like you want him to get better so you can avoid being alone. Alone is natural until your heart speaks love. Your heart is your own, what does it say?

PerSe

I really relate to your dilemma and especially to the concept that you've invested so much time and energy into this relationship that you don't want to give up on it.

I met and fell in love and married my AH in my mid-20's. We were both "free spirits" - great yet demanding careers, no kids, financially doing well, and just having so much fun together in our adventure of life. I knew he was an alcoholic when I married him but I was so unsure of myself and my life's direction that I just fell into the good feeling that was our togetherness, if that makes any sense. I thought I was sure of myself and I dreamed of all the good times we would have in our life together.

Since then I have grown as a person and I'm a parent now so that has changed me deeply. I am now also able to recognize I have lots of recovery to do because I am very codependent (even though I'm still learning what codependent fully means). AH has really never changed - he lives for his binge every few days. He seems to have the emotional maturity of a teenager even though he thinks he is wiser, smarter, and morally superior to most.

Long story short, I'm in the process of divorcing him after 20+ years together. Of course I would never change anything that would change having my kids. But, in principle, knowing what I know now, I would have left the relationship as soon as I recognized he was an alcoholic.

The relationship has been very unfulfilling - it's been one good time after another but with no emotional connection or growth as a couple. And I won't go into the family dynamics we experience with our children.

Very best to you. I know the support and wisdom of the people posting on this board has been so deeply important to me and I hope you find a similar experience.

FallenAngelina

This isn't apparent in anything that Kimberly has shared so far.

Sleepyhollo

He is not really serious about wanting recovery. My ex quit several times over the years, he would stay clean a couple of months and then slowly start drinking in moderation before it spun out of control again. Longest he quit was 13 months without any sort of treatment. When I gave him an ultimatum he quit that day. I told him he needed treatment of some sort. Because of his job he sought help through a place that is meant for his profession. They interviewed him and he was ordered to go to rehab for 3 months. This was a total shocker to both of us, came completely out of left field. After all he had quit drinking already. But we soon realized that he absolutely needed rehab. Like many of us have said, quitting drinking is not the issue. It is changing behaviors and learning coping skills so that they can learn to function and deal with things without alcohol. My ex was pissed that they mad shim stay 3 months, he felt he was ready to leave after one month. But I will tell you that he needed every minute of that 3 month stay. It took him 7 weeks just to get insight to his manipulative behaviors. And that was with daily counseling and lots of meeting every day. The group meetings are good because others like him can call him out on his BS and excuses.,...because they have been there done that themselves. It gives them much better insight and they know they cannot fool anybody. A therapist is a great start but it would definitely need to be someone that specializes in addiction. Remember add it’s are very manipulative and know what people want to hear. One on one therapy he can say what he knows people want to hear and often get away with it. Someone that isn’t trained in addiction will likely not se through that. Every therapist has some experience with addition obviously but probably not enough to see through some of the cunning ways that addicts have. Meetings with people just like him are great because he cannot fool them. People that are not really ready for recovery will have lots of excuses of why something won’t work for them, because that gives them an out.
Once a week therapy is more than likely not going to cut it to help him quit. I think a few people on here had spouses that did that but it was useless. They were just going through the motions so they could say they were trying.
He won’t seek serious help until he is truly ready. And although inpatient rehab may not be a viable option for him he should at least do daily meeting (90 meeting in 90 days minimum) and if available some sort of intensive outpatient rehab. And definitely therapy to work through his childhood issues. But remember, not everyone that has a crappy childhood turns to substances. So even though that plays a big role in his self medication it is because he has no other coping skills to work through it. That is why people can’t just stop drinking and not do anything else. They need to deal with their underlying issues and learn new ways to cope with those and other stressors, true recovery takes a lot of work and dedication so someone needs to be really ready to quit for themselves and not for anyone else

seekingcalm

Kimberly 702,
I left, and I went no contact. I had spent time here on this great site reading and learning, and I knew it would be the only way. I also knew that if he were to get serious, and seek recovery and long-term sobriety, he would have to do it alone, for himself, and not just to win me back. I took that completely off the table, and went on with my life.
He did get serious, and he's been working a strong program of recovery for over 9 years now. I didn't let him back in for almost 2 years. We have a wonderful life now.
But Kimberly702, I didn't wait for him. I am much older than you are. My children from a previous marriage are adults. It's hard to know, but perhaps if I had been younger, I may have found love with someone else. I think we are all capable of loving more than one person in our lifetime, I guess we just stop looking when we find someone that we love very much. But if you are already so confused, and hurt by this one...why not move on? Having lived a long time, I can tell you...if you take some time away from him, and get to know and adore yourself, you will find a greater love than you can imagine, and a wonderful life ahead with someone healthy and who would never dream of hurting you. This young man doesn't love himself, so he cannot possible love you the way you deserve to be loved. You cannot help him, you CAN help yourself.

Sasha1972

I've heard it said that addicts often get "stuck" at the developmental age they were when they first started abusing substances - as though the process of psychological and emotional growth was blocked even as the addict's physical and cognitive abilities increased. A lot of addicts first start using in their early teens - so you've got someone who has the self-centredness and impulsiveness of a middle-schooler, except they're smarter and better able to justify their actions after the fact. (The only other people I've met who lie as outrageously as alcoholics have been young teenagers making up excuses to get out of trouble).

I've heard alcoholics in long-term recovery talking about how disoriented they felt in their first year or so of full sobriety - as though they had to re-learn everything they hadn't really thought about before. It's occurred to me that it sounds a lot of like growing up and maturing that adolescents/young adults go through - except it's now being experienced in a shorter timeframe by a person in their 30s, 40s, 50s, once the developmental block of alcohol has been removed.

Sasha1972

^^^ I think the point of the above is: I spent a couple of decades with someone who had the emotional maturity of a thirteen year old with an adult's body and brain.

jenous13

I have been asking myself this question more and more lately. I am at the point where the bad times are outweighing the good and it's heartbreaking. I hate that my husband will choose alcohol over me every single time.