Leana

Has anyone seen the documentary on Amazon Prime called the 13th Step? It is about a mother and her young child who were murdered by a man she met in AA. Apparently this violent offender was ordered upon his release from jail to attend AA meetings. Because they are anonymous, nobody knew.
Apparently this happens all over the country, judges use AA as a probation requirement. So people convicted of rape, domestic violence, even murder sit next to unsuspecting people who are at their most vulnerable. Story after story about (mostly women) thinking they had a friend being hurt by these predators. This scares the hell out of me, my daughter goes to meetings alone. She is so vulnerable. And SOO needy for a friend.

Dee74

Hi Leana

I'm not in AA but I've met many folks who are on this website over 12 years and the overwhelmingly vast majority are folks just like you and me.

It would be much the same kind of mix I'd imagine as your local PTA

D

the1975jen

Why not talk to her about it? I dont know how old she is, but just explain what you saw. perhaps remind her to listen to her gut and look for red flags in any people she gets close to.

Honestly you could sit next to a violent offender at an Applebee's or meet one online. apply common sense.

is your daughter an alcoholic? what are you doing for you? do you go to alanon?

Bekindalways

Hey Leana, that is a terrifying story. However it is probably a super rare occurrence. I would think more people die of alcoholism than from being attacked by AA members.

I agree with Jen. The best thing you can do for your daughter is get yourself to an Alanon meeting.

Mango212

"Fear-based news stories prey on the anxieties we all have and then hold us hostage."

There is good and bad throughout the world. There are docu-exploitations (taking raw material and using it with an intent of skewed views and profit), and there is having an awareness of our lives, hurts and recovery.

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...april-8-a.html (Today's Hope - April 8)

Through 12 steps, it's possible to learn to trust in our own healthy gut instincts, God "of our own understanding" and choosing to have more than we realized was possible -- healthy fellowship, relationships and lives.

August252015

Hey Leana - that stuff IS scary. And, super rare. The true experience of 13th stepping is way less extreme (as in murder etc- NOT in terms of relapse, though) - as it typically involves either relationships starting in early sobriety (as in, yr 1) or between someone further along than the person they get involved with. Most of the stories you'll see on here are that kind of stuff.

I sincerely believe AA is a safe place. Many court orders are for DUIs, far fewer for heinous crimes- though indeed, people on parole for heinous stuff are indeed in meetings. No, we don't always know. Again, IMO and IME and from the degree to which a "lay person" can study these huge incidents, they are often written or shared with someone who has an anti-AA agenda rather than a heed caution one.

Everyone here knows I am an AA person - and I would elaborate to say that while likely LESS so than a single woman should proceed with some safety awareness in the world, it's much less than she should have at bars, out in the middle of the night or getting herself into a manslaughter situation by driving drunk or....like I did when I was drinking.

My mom was terrified about pretty much every possible scenario while I was drinking, and she even worried about the in-recovery-ones though not as much about those in the rooms.

Your daughter is doing the right thing; and, it's her recovery.

Perhaps Al Anon is a great place for you to go, or to open AA meetings (you don't have to be an alcoholic, anyone is welcome) and see what it's like for yourself.

Best,
A

DriGuy

I think AA is generally safe, but things happen, both in AA and out on the street. People tend to be law abiding, except for those who aren't. That's the way humans are.

FallenAngelina

THIS

Why take one super rare occurrence and use it as a reason to bring fear into our lives? This kind of "news" doesn't protect us, it turns us into fearful, isolated victims. Think about how many millions of people whose lives improve every single day because of AA, AlAnon and other anonymous-based programs. "Story after story about (mostly women) thinking they had a friend being hurt by these predators." How many stories do you factually know about vs. how many wonderful, positive and life changing relationships actually exist? The ratio is a billion to one - and you're focusing on the one. You can choose to be fearful of the one or you can choose to be grateful for the billion. What we think about is what grows for us in the garden of our life.

hopeful4

I second talking to her about it. And to throw it out there, this summer I am going to do a self defense course with my two daughters. Not because of any certain situation, but because I think everyone should know how to defend themselves. Maybe it's something you two could do together as well. Just a thought.

atalose

She’s going to have to navigate through these meetings with lots of caution. No, not for the ax murderer or serial rapist (those folks mostly remain in jail, not sentenced to AA meetings) But with the guys who show interest in her and want to help her, show her the program and offer to sponsor her. There is a good reason why it is suggested that in early recovery the women stick with the women and the men stick with the men.

And most import is to not allow your own fear to project on her. Allow her the respect and responsibility of finding her path and making mistakes along the way.

CRRHCC

Avoiding predators is a good reason for segregated groups (male/female) if possible. This documentary goes to the heart of AA and the need for evidenced based medicine. AA has not changed since the 1930s.

pdm22

“The 13 stepper” term has been around since forever, I always understood it to mean an old timer who preys on newcomers, trying to get them into bed. They do have meeting that are male only, female only, for teenagers, LGBT...so finding which group is the best fit for the individual is generally a good idea.

biminiblue

The predatory behavior of "sober" men in AA meetings was one of the things that pushed me away from meetings.

However.

I put myself into lots of compromising situations for YEARS out there at bars, parties etc. Being a woman under the influence or being newly sober both make for easy prey/vulnerability/poor decisions.

If your daughter gets a sponsor and sticks with the women and uses the same common sense she would in any stranger-danger situation she will likely be okay.

I agree with the other posters though - this is her life to navigate and she is going to run into dangerous people all over the place. As much as you'd like to protect her from all harm in life, it just isn't possible. Heck, I've had flashers and lewd comments at the car-wash, a busy beach, and the parking lots of grocery stores.

BlownOne

. This documentary goes to the heart of AA and the need for evidenced based medicine. AA has not changed since the 1930s.

__________________
It hasn't changed since the 1930's because it works for many many people. It's not the only way to get sober and stay sober, but to imply that it lacks because it's not focused on "evidence based medicine" is simply foolish.

FallenAngelina

In this current social climate, especially, it's important to not cast all men expressing interest in a woman as "predators." Yes, there are actual predators and yes, AA is not supposed to be used as a dating service, but people do meet, become friends, form attachments and sometimes there are sparks. A man expressing interest in a woman (assuming that she is not new to the program) doesn't make him a predator. I have been asked out by fellow AlAnon members (for dating, not just as friends) and while I've not been interested, I've not felt that it was done with predatory intent. Wherever men and women (or same sex if you're gay) mix, there is going to be sexual attraction. I don't fault anyone in AA or AlAnon for sincerely feeling that and gently following up on it appropriately.

pdm22

I think the 13th stepper can easily be a woman, or of any sexual orientation, and the newcomer a guy, or of any sexual orientation. Probably one of those things where people just need to watch out for themselves or each other, but when you have newcomers who are vulnerable coming in, perhaps not with the best boundaries/ sexual boundaries, or from backgrounds where perhaps there was some kind of abuse and perhaps they aren’t good at judging intent, that’s when things can get blurry or messy, if someone who has been there a while takes advantage. Men and women, gay or straight, some people do do this, unfortunately.

tomsteve

if you looked at the fact, the heart of the AA program was aided by information from doc silkworth. in his lifetime he worked with over 40,000 alcoholics. i have yet to read of one single( or even combined) person that has worked with even close to that many.
what has medicine done over the years? taken doc silkworths theories and proven them fact.
i hope you take some time and learn what the heart of AA is.
AA has proven to be quite effective and there no reason to change it.if more people that compained about AA got into action and started more recovery programs rather than complain about AA, how great that would be!

theres sick people in every single organization ,fellowship,recovery program,etc in the world.



there are men only and women only meetings,too.

NYCDoglvr

Hey, it's a movie!! I've been going to AA for 27 years and never met a deviant person. Some people are court appointed, but it's because of a DUI. Nobody gets sent with a serious rap sheet.

velma929

I never got much out of Al-anon, but I would take sensational movies with a grain of salt.

Although it IS called Alcoholics Anonymous, (or Al-Anon) I always took that to mean no one "outed' another member in public. If someone had wanted to get to know me better, I would have insisted on some ID. Of course one would still be obligated to be discreet, even when dating, and not out someone out of revenge if the relationship went south.

velma929

Ordering convicts into AA is kind of silly, isn't it? I mean, since it's anonymous, how would anyone prove he attended?