Dropping the rope - negotiations about drinking
 

I think I'm mainly putting this story out here because this group of people might relate:

Ex has visits with Kid under a court order which requires that he produce clean SoberLink tests before, during and after visits on a schedule. He predictably screws them up. The order says that if he doesn't comply, we're back to only supervised visits for a set period until he "graduates" back to being able to see his kid without a babysitter. It's snakes and ladders.

So - about a month and a half ago, ex didn't do his SoberLink tests as required. Per the court order, I said "okay, no unsupervised visits for X weeks". Ex threw a fit, he hasn't had a drink in eight months, it's not his fault, SoberLink doesn't work properly, it's not his fault, I am a b!tch and he's going to take me to court so that he can see his precious daughter. I think "oh crap, here we go back to court again for the thousandth time".

My lawyer has an idea - let him do a hair follicle test to prove that he hasn't been drinking for months. If it's clean, we return immediately to unsupervised visits. We're offering him a way to prove that his claims about not having touched alcohol for months are true, and to get back to seeing Kid without babysitters. And if the test is clean, I will even reimburse him for it, so there's no cost at all to him. Pretty good deal, right?

Ex says yes! of course I will do the test because I am committed to my sobriety! Except ... (you can probably tell what's coming) ...

He can't afford the up-front cost of the test. He wants me to suspend collection on his child support payments (currently being garnished from his wages because he won't pay voluntarily) for two months. This comes to $3 000. The fanciest, most elaborate hair follicle test you can take costs only $500. Why does he need $3 000?

I say no. If the test is clean, I'll agree to subtract the cost of the test from his child support arrears (in other words, I'll pay once it comes up clean).

Ex says yes! he's going to do the test! except ...

He wants a promise from me that I won't seek to collect the money he owes me for Kid's extracurricular activities over the past year. This amounts to about $4 000. If I agree to absorb the entire cost and not pursue him for his share, he'll do the test.

I say - wait a minute, why am I negotiating with an alcoholic about "proving" whether he's been drinking or not? He has been given the opportunity to clear himself and get back to seeing his daughter unsupervised. He's trying to turn this opportunity into a way to get out of his financial obligations. This is not something I should be paying him to do. This is crazy. I am dropping this particular rope.

(And in the meantime, even though he is entitled to have supervised visits with Kid, and I have agreed to supervise, he has not attempted to arrange any, so hasn't seen her for over a month. This suggests to me that he is not strongly motivated by the desire to have a relationship with his daughter. He is, however, motivated by the possibility that he can get money out of me).

I can relate.

It’s like anything they want, they will use whatever tactics it takes to try to get it. Even turning the situation around. Unbelievable, really. Good for you for not falling for it.

Your attorney is smart. Give the ex a challenge on something he does not really want, and he will try to turn it around to get what he really does want. It’s brilliant, and gets the ex to show how his actions contradict his words.

Yes what a brilliant idea by your attorney.

The fact that he wants to negotiate his parental responsibility for a hair follicle test is appalling.

And good for you for dropping that rope and not listening to the drivel. You are very strong Sasha.

Unbelievable. Making the issue not about the issue at all. Took him a bit of energy to think that strategy up, i reckon.

I think my lawyer is pretty brilliant too. When he first proposed the hair follicle idea, I thought it sounded way too CSI for me. I don't care if he was drinking last month, I just care that he's not drinking around Kid. But it was actually a maneuver to give ex a chance to show his true colors behind the poor-dad-victim-of-malicious-mom facade, which he promptly did.

That description was classic. I loved it. Thanks for posting it.

There are no words .......:duck

Dear Sasha
You are a much better person than I am. I would be asking this guy where the school is that taught him to be a @*#&$^% !&#&$& alcoholic butthead. Or was it just a correspondence course?

Seriously, when situations like this come up on these pages, I am always surprised at the uniformity of behaviors like this.

The uniformity is in the behavior of the alcoholic. The lawyer new it was predictable because he sees it time after time, courts schedule drug hearings early in the morning because the drug addicted don't get up early. At least that's what I was told it my grandsons case when the state was trying to termanate parental rights.

Thanks everyone. I write this stuff out partly because I need someone to remind me that this is absolutely textbook alcoholic behavior. There's part of me that always wants to believe that maybe this time he really has changed, maybe he really has stopped drinking/using, maybe I am being too rigid. Even after many years, the hope that he will somehow turn back into a normal person is flickering faintly.

So manipulative.
And so bad at it.
Good for you for holding him accountable.

Even after many years, the hope that he will somehow turn back into a normal person is flickering faintly.

and i think you do so thru the filter of a person who co-parents with this person, not as a love interest.

Yes, absolutely. "Love interest" left the building many years ago. What I hope for is to have a sane and reasonable co-parent, even though I know that is unlikely to happen.

Hi Sasha, congratulations for continuing to hold the line against his manipulation, as tiring as it must get.
I was wondering if your DD is onboard with your strategy or whether you're being set up as the baddy here? She would be getting old enough to start working things out, like him not taking up the options he does have, by now?

That's pretty much what I was going to say - I'd add that, sadly - and I say this as an alcoholic and someone who once lived with someone in a very similar situation/battle with his ex-wife, and he pulled this stuff; also as someone with an alcoholic mother and non-alcoholic dad who stayed married, so there were plenty of situations where my mom was caring for us when drinking - and these measures won't change the fact he's drinking, if he is. And maybe he's moderating or only this or that- but if he's an alcoholic and still drinking, even being around the kids supervised is....problematic for them, especially.

Best to you in this truly crummy situation. So much is beyond your control, and indeed setting legal guidelines and enforcing them is necessary, but focusing on that or other things you CAN control (ie not his alcoholism) is best for you and the kids.

Excellent job dropping the rope!

And should you ever feel guilty again about him not "being able" to see his daughter, read this. To me it is clear where his priorities lie.

OK, that made me laugh out loud. He's actually so bad that I feel sorry for him. I mean if you're going to attempt to pull off a crafty manipulation of the system, don't make a fool out of yourself with something that you obviously haven't thought through.

And that is his problem. He just wants to control something so bad that he's thoughtlessly flailing at the air. It's like he has no realization that he's not holding a single winning card. The game is over. Everyone has laid their cards on the table for all to see, and he's still trying to win, and he doesn't even know what game everyone is playing to begin with.

It's sad.

Only the actions matter, the rest is bla, bla, bla.

Thanks - this ^^^ really helps me to remember that the last thing to go is the desire to control. This individual has lost his career, his health, his friends, two marriages, most of his money, possibly his relationship with his only child - he is trying to impress his will on the universe in any way he can. His actions don't make sense from a goal-oriented way of thinking because they are not goal-oriented - this is control for the sake of control, which manifests as drama, intrigue, prolongation of engagement ...