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Old 04-12-2019, 11:16 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Maudcat View Post
I can’t imagine taking a trip with my addict sib.
I took him to WalMart a while back, normally a 10 minute drive that morphed into 30 minutes because of road construction.
I like to have died, with all the complaining, whining, and general asshattedness he spouts.
Couldn’t decide whether I should ram a guardrail or just pitch him out.
Kidding.
Sort of.
Good luck and good thoughts.
Maudcat,

You have no idea how real the feeling is about the guardrail or pitching out :p But, in all seriousness, I'm used to the drinking, as sad as that is. I know that from this point, I can only move forward with bettering myself in the situation, and reacting in a better way, or just not reacting at all.

Thanks for the good luck and good thoughts!
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Old 04-12-2019, 11:21 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Trailmix wrote on another thread:

"Self-esteem is the key."

I found the anxiety I used to have was trying to tell me something very, very important.

Listening to my inner needs, valuing my relationship with myself before the relationship with the alcoholic and taking new, intentional, kind self actions are a big part of my recovery from this Family Disease of Alcoholism. There are a whole lot of 'isms'!
Mango,

Self-esteem is something I've definitely been working on. I've really been on a journey of self-discovery, and learning to draw healthy boundaries to keep myself healthy and sane.

I've learned to tune in to my anxiety more, and really listen. I'm learning to decern 'there really is something wrong' gut feeling from 'there's absoulutely nothing wrong, you're just anxious' gut feeling.

I'm just as a whole, working a lot on myself, and have made big strides in the last 4 months. And I look to this for guidance and to have a better ability to work through the stress of his drinking.

Thanks for the advice! Much love and peace!
- C -
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Old 04-12-2019, 11:22 AM   #23 (permalink)
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I have I feeling I would get in trouble for leaving a drunk 74 year old man on the side of the road with all his Vodka and Pepsi. 😏

Action,

Haha, I have a feeling that you're correct. I also would like to add, not only would I get in trouble for that, but that my old man would be able to find and make a whole lot of trouble of his own. Of course, I base this off of all of the stories he told me about his teenage years and military years lol.
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:36 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by HopeandCope1988 View Post
But I drive, not him. And that's on him. I do know for a fact he would take all responsibility, should something happen, so that I don't face anything.
An open container in a moving vehicle is an open container. Makes no difference who is sipping it. You'll be facing the consequences of his open container whether he claims it was his or not. Only seven states do not have this open container law, so be sure to research.


Can Passengers Drink Alcohol In a Car?
A total of 43 states have open container laws in place, 40 of which conform to federal standards outlined in the Transportation Equity Act for the 21st Century (TEA-21), which mandates open container laws and other traffic safety measures. Drivers may be cited for an open container violation if they have the container on their person or within reach. But even if only the passenger is in possession of an open container, both the driver and the offending passenger may be cited for a violation.
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:46 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Trailmix,


Unfortunately, he will. But I drive, not him. And that's on him. I do know for a fact he would take all responsibility, should something happen, so that I don't face anything. But again, I drive, so that helps.
- C -
might want to look at the laws. if your driving your car and allowing someone to have an open intoxicant in the vehicle, you can be ticketed in some states
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:53 PM   #26 (permalink)
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considering how much you now DEFEND your father,his drinking and the sanctity of these "trips" i'm wondering why you posted.

Unfortunately, he will. But I drive, not him. And that's on him. I do know for a fact he would take all responsibility, should something happen, so that I don't face anything. But again, I drive, so that helps. I know that's enabling, however, what am I, a 30 year old, going to tell my 74 year old father. "No! You can't do that!". I wish it were that simple, and I've tried. Falls on deaf ears.

you most certainly CAN tell any passenger of your vehicle or any vehicle you are IN that no alcohol is allowed. you are as you say a 30 year old grown up. what i am hearing is a ton of enabling and myth retelling. rather than stand up for yourself, you have built a legend around these trips where all your father does is drink all day, and you "tolerate" it in the name of a memory.

there are only four states that allow open containers in vehicles and based on your itinerary you won't be in any of them. so you are willfully violating the law. just sayin'..........

which is totally your choice. but this has a lot less to with his drinking, than the role you have made for yourself in the dysfunctional dynamics of an alcoholic family unit.
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:55 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I wonder if you told your father beforehand that you wouldn't be making the trip if there was going to be alcohol in the car whether or not he would still be interested in making these memories with you. That would be a perfectly healthy boundary to have.
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Old 04-12-2019, 04:38 PM   #28 (permalink)
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HandC…...I can see that you are definitely going to go on the trip with your father...and, I do hope that you can get the good parts that you anticipate. That is totally your right...and, I can understand that you are willing to sacrifice in order to keep the status-quo of the relationship. Totally your call and your right to do so.
As I read what you share with us...I must say that all of this makes perfect sense, to me...especially, seeing as you grew up in an alcoholic family as an only child. Of course, you could be expected to be locked into this kind of dynamic with your parent. And, of course, be in treatment for low self esteem and anxiety.....this just goes with the situation...(it also suggests that your father may have done a form of what is known as "parentalizing the child")...
I am very glad to hear that you are seeing a therapist and are motivated to change for yourself.....I think that this motivation is a good sigh...
One suggestion that I, very, very sincerely make to you is this: If you haven't ever done so...please look up the organization "Adult Children of Alcoholics"...I think you more than qualify, and would benefit, enormously. It is a 12 step program.....At least, you can get the materials in the book section of Amazon.com....and read the materials....just type in the name of the organization in the book section of amazon.....
This would, of course, be in addition to your therapy....it would augment your therapy...and, give your and your therapist a ton of grist for the mill.....
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Old 04-13-2019, 10:22 PM   #29 (permalink)
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considering how much you now DEFEND your father,his drinking and the sanctity of these "trips" i'm wondering why you posted.

Unfortunately, he will. But I drive, not him. And that's on him. I do know for a fact he would take all responsibility, should something happen, so that I don't face anything. But again, I drive, so that helps. I know that's enabling, however, what am I, a 30 year old, going to tell my 74 year old father. "No! You can't do that!". I wish it were that simple, and I've tried. Falls on deaf ears.

you most certainly CAN tell any passenger of your vehicle or any vehicle you are IN that no alcohol is allowed. you are as you say a 30 year old grown up. what i am hearing is a ton of enabling and myth retelling. rather than stand up for yourself, you have built a legend around these trips where all your father does is drink all day, and you "tolerate" it in the name of a memory.

there are only four states that allow open containers in vehicles and based on your itinerary you won't be in any of them. so you are willfully violating the law. just sayin'..........

which is totally your choice. but this has a lot less to with his drinking, than the role you have made for yourself in the dysfunctional dynamics of an alcoholic family unit.

Well, for one I posted on here because I have a family member who is an alcoholic. I'm not defending his drinking, I hate that he does it and puts me at risk to get in trouble. I hate that I put myself in that situation. However, I feel that you should not be judging me so harshly on the matter, considering you've never walked in MY shoes. Every alcoholic, every family member of an alcoholic, and every situation regarding dealing with an alcoholic is different. You don't know what I face when I try to stand my ground, which I have tried to do. Again, it falls on deaf ears; stubborn, hard-headed ears.

I also never said that he drinks all day. He will drink at dinners, and some events or places we attend, and sometimes, yes in the vehicle on the way to some place.

I'm very well aware that I enable it. But again, if you'd like to step into my shoes and tell him no, please do. Otherwise, please don't presume to know that I am myth retelling. I posted because I need any advice I could get. Not, for all intents and purposes, be called an enabling crybaby.

I am a 30 year old frown woman, who is still growing and learning mentally, and am just now approaching the subject of his alcoholism in therapy. So I assure you, I am doing the best I can with the HELPFUL advice I've been given thus far.

I hope you can learn to be more understanding and compassionate towards people if you're going to be on a site like this. I highly doubt I'm the only one, and I will post about whatever I need to to get help through all of this.

I hope you have a better day.
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Old 04-13-2019, 10:25 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I wonder if you told your father beforehand that you wouldn't be making the trip if there was going to be alcohol in the car whether or not he would still be interested in making these memories with you. That would be a perfectly healthy boundary to have.
I agree, it is a healthy boundary. It is a boundary I'm still working on learning to implement. I've approached the subject with him multiple times, and am met with nothing but resistance.
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Old 04-13-2019, 10:28 PM   #31 (permalink)
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HandC…...I can see that you are definitely going to go on the trip with your father...and, I do hope that you can get the good parts that you anticipate. That is totally your right...and, I can understand that you are willing to sacrifice in order to keep the status-quo of the relationship. Totally your call and your right to do so.
As I read what you share with us...I must say that all of this makes perfect sense, to me...especially, seeing as you grew up in an alcoholic family as an only child. Of course, you could be expected to be locked into this kind of dynamic with your parent. And, of course, be in treatment for low self esteem and anxiety.....this just goes with the situation...(it also suggests that your father may have done a form of what is known as "parentalizing the child")...
I am very glad to hear that you are seeing a therapist and are motivated to change for yourself.....I think that this motivation is a good sigh...
One suggestion that I, very, very sincerely make to you is this: If you haven't ever done so...please look up the organization "Adult Children of Alcoholics"...I think you more than qualify, and would benefit, enormously. It is a 12 step program.....At least, you can get the materials in the book section of Amazon.com....and read the materials....just type in the name of the organization in the book section of amazon.....
This would, of course, be in addition to your therapy....it would augment your therapy...and, give your and your therapist a ton of grist for the mill.....

What does parentalizing the child mean?

And thank you for all of your advice. I certainly do appreciate it! I will look into the organization and see what it's all about. Thank you so much!
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Old 04-14-2019, 05:48 AM   #32 (permalink)
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HandC…….the following is a link that can help explains some of what parentalizing means.....
I am so glad to hear that you are motivated to hear that you are motivated to understand more and willing to do self-examination....it takes a lot of strength to do that.....
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Old 04-14-2019, 06:59 AM   #33 (permalink)
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I agree, it is a healthy boundary. It is a boundary I'm still working on learning to implement. I've approached the subject with him multiple times, and am met with nothing but resistance.
The only people we need to approach the subject of our boundaries with are ourselves. His resistance to the idea is all the information you really need.

Since we can't change others to control our anxiety, pain and discomfort, changing ourselves and our reactions to others is our only path forward to healthier living.
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Old 04-14-2019, 08:16 AM   #34 (permalink)
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I do it for the man that raised me, and made sure that I didn't go hungry, or went homeless, etc. .......
Dear C
This is the only thing you've written so far that made me cringe a little. Your dad was responsible for you after bringing you into this world. What you are describing here is a bare minimum.
Good or great parenting involves SO much more in emotional support and intellectual and social development so you can succeed in life.

That being said, and please don't take this as condescending, you just want your Daddy. I understand totally, and have personal experience. You are taking this trip just hoping to connect on some level. There is nothing wrong with any of this.

However, we cannot buy bread at the hardware store. Some of us on these pages embraced that truth up to going "no contact" with such a parent.

You will do what is right for you. Just work on YOU. You have our support.
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Old 04-14-2019, 08:16 AM   #35 (permalink)
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One segment about the child/parent roles being reversed:


Parents are the guardians and caretakers of children - they care for the emotional and physical needs of a child to ensure that the child's needs are met. However, for some, the traditional roles of parent and child are not followed. Parentification may be defined as a role-reversal between parent and child. A child's needs are sacrificed to take care of the needs of one or both of his or her parents. In very extreme cases, the parentified child may be used to fill the void of the parent's emotional life.

During the process of parentification, a child may give up his or her needs of attention, comfort, and parental guidance to care for the needs and care of logistical and emotional needs of his or her parents.

The parent, in the case of parentification, does not do what he or she should do to take care of the child or children as a parent and instead, gives up parental responsibilities to one or more of his or her children. Thereby the children are "parentified." During parentification, the child becomes "the parental child."




In a list of "types" of parents where this often occurs is "Alcoholics".
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Old 04-14-2019, 08:47 AM   #36 (permalink)
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An issue for me with my emotionally abusive family of origin was infantilization combined with parentizing.

Info about these and steps for recovery, in regards to emotional abuse:



With infantization the child's decisions are manipulated by the parent so the child will not reach autonomy. The parent can also manipulate the child (or adult child) into believing they are unworthy by having very high and unrealistic expectations to which they cannot possibly perform.

Everything about this behavior is to keep the child orbiting around the parent ensuring henor she does not have a life of their own.


More often than not an Emotional Abuser will use both strategies, making their victim take parental responsibility while at the same time not ever treating them like an adult. Parentification and infantalization are simply strategies to make the victim feel both responsible for the (emotional) well-being of the abuser and make sure they believe themselves incapable of independence. Combining the strategies ensures that the victim becomes and stays entangled with their abuser.

Recovery is about you getting to decide for once how the dynamics of the relationship are going to work and getting a chance to put your own comfort and mental health in the forefront of the relationship.

What happens when you do that, especially if you haven’t done it before, is they are not going to like it. You need to be prepared for that. They will push back, and you have to steady yourself and stand firm.
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Old 04-14-2019, 10:57 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Hand C.....oops! Here is the link that I promised you in the last post....

https://www.mentalhelp.net/blogs/fam...ntified-child/
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Old 04-14-2019, 11:24 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Every alcoholic, every family member of an alcoholic, and every situation regarding dealing with an alcoholic is different. You don't know what I face when I try to stand my ground, which I have tried to do. Again, it falls on deaf ears; stubborn, hard-headed ears..
HopeandCope, It can be hard to hear some of this stuff, I totally get it.

I have been in this situation (and this was just a few months ago and obviously not with my Father). So what did I do. I said no. We will sit here until the alcohol is out of the vehicle.

So that didn't go over very well.

You end up sitting there being told how ridiculous you are being over a bit of alcohol, being insulted etc and you start to think, am I being ridiculous?

I have always had really strong boundaries in my mind with regard to alcohol, for whatever reasons. Other people don't necessarily see it that way, I don't care.

So long story short, we sat there until the alcohol was thrown away. It was incredibly unpleasant but I let it roll off my back. None of this stuff is easy, people who are drinking will rarely if ever see your sober point of view. Just doesn't matter.

The thing with boundaries is they are not about the other person. Do I care that the person in my vehicle drinks or doesn't, not one bit. Well I care as one human to another, but I'm not stopping anyone from drinking, not ever, not my job, none of my business. The boundaries come in to play when it affects me only. You do as you like but don't hurt me in the process.

Boundaries can be hard. Please know i'm not saying what you should or shouldn't do here, just sharing my experience.
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Old 04-14-2019, 11:38 AM   #39 (permalink)
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As alcoholism progresses it can also be dangerous to get between an alcoholic and the drug of their choice: alcohol.

Sometimes the only safe choice is to step away from the situation ourselves. To get out of the vehicle, with keys. To be aware of being in a safe environment with opportunities to have help if it's needed. To be willing to help ourselves.


My solution now is to not travel with an active alcoholic. That isn't where I started.
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Old 04-15-2019, 09:24 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Maybe let him know in advance that while you are looking forward to travels and making memories, that in light of how things happened last year, you want to have some time to explore on your own as well. A little time apart.

You have gotten some really good advise here, but maybe in the future a bit shorter of trips? Some good weekend or day trips?? My dad has Alzheimers and is no longer able to travel, but when he could it was a lot better to just go for a day trip or if out of town no more than a weekend.

Sending you a big hug and wishes for peaceful, fun, and safe travels!
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