Saltlamp

Hi Everyone,

I haven't been an active participant: long time lurker, second time poster. Ha. (I feel like I don't have a lot to contribute to this forum most of the time in ways of replying...)

Anyway, I wanted to reach out as I'm realizing I'm riding around "on the merry-go-round."

I first posted back in August 2018: my good friend had relapsed after a few years of sobriety. We had met early in his first stint of sobriety, and he is(was?) an amazing human being: smart, compassionate, fun, etc.etc.etc., all the things one wants in a friend.

Then last summer he relapsed and, basically, for the last year, it's been "sober for a week, drunk for two months" etc etc etc, excuses, quacking, finding myself acting like a codie from time to time, etc. etc. etc.

Finally got into inpatient treatment (yay), relapsed on a weekend pass after six weeks or so dry (boo), and is back to a super familiar place of "im super miserable woe is me i need help but all the available support (and in his case there is TONNES) has this pesky little problem of being uncomfortable...")

So, I'm having two problems that I think I need feedback/advice beyond what lurking can provide

I want so much to be there for him when he is in recovery. Like, really, I don't mind a bit being a call-me-at-two-AM-if-you're-having-a-hard-time-and-I'll-be-right-there type of person. (That's just me, that's not codie stuff. I work in the helping professions, and my spiritual faith is all about being helpful to others.) But I DO mind being that same shoulder to cry on when it's just a way for him to quack. Of course you're sad at two in the morning when you're drunk. (Quacking "It's not because of the alcohol, it's because of the depression.") And I DO mind when hurtful things are said. And I DO mind the entitled attitude about our friendship that drunk him seems to have developed.

So I'm having a hard time deciding where to redraw the boundary? NC seems too harsh- giving up hope that he'll ever be in recovery- but I'm just not sure what other "options" are. Looking for advice from other perspectives.

And, I don't know, I am also just looking for someone else to understand THIS: so if you "get" what I'm saying for the next part I'd appreciate some validation. (Tried to explain this feeling to someone else and it was a total *whoosh* soo, you know, it's nice to feel understood...)

I'm kind of grieving my friend. He's been relapsed for so long, and more or less resisting treatment for so long, that it's almost like the death of the friend I once had. Maybe he will go into recovery eventually and be more like the friend I once had, but maybe he won't. In fact, it's very likely that he won't ever fully recover, even in recovery, since his heavy alcohol use very well may have caused some permanent brain damage, according to his medical team in his last inpatient stint.

We are part of the First Responder community, and when our town has lost other first responders to suicide, there's been this outpouring of support and love and understanding for the grief that accompanies this kind of loss. And while my grief isn't overwhelming, it's enough that I needed a good cry, feeling like I'm saying goodbye to a friend who meant a lot to me at one point. Just felt sad.

Does that make sense to anyone?

Thanks all.

trailmix

Hi saltlamp, glad you decided to post! I really like your username.

I totally get what you are saying.

For the first part, your boundaries are being tromped over, so that's an issue for sure, which you know. There is a difference between someone being in crisis at 2 AM and calling someone to talk - I totally get that and agree that's not a codependent behaviour, I would do the same for a friend.

But as you have stated, the drunken quacking, the woe is me, that's just - drunk talk and is a waste of your time really because you cannot reason with someone who is drunk, just not happening (as I'm sure you are well aware).

Boundaries? I wouldn't engage with him when he is drinking, in terms of the talking about his issues. I would let him know it is not ok to call at 2 AM drunk. Each and every time he is hurtful toward you, call him on it, just like you would (or at least should) with anyone else, don't walk on eggshells for him. Now, how helpful that will be - remains to be seen.

So what is the real boundary? Treat me with respect. Don't call drunk at 2 AM. If you are suicidal dial 911 (yes I would have that talk and you may have). If he does call and states he is suicidal, drunk or sober, I would call 911 for him.

When boundaries are crossed even after having these conversations, you need to be the one to stick to them. Suicidal call at 2 AM, call 911. Hurtful comments, if you are there in person, leave, if you are on the phone, tell him you don't like the comments and you are hanging up. Entitled behaviour, you can stop providing those perceived "entitlements", let him know.

You have to disengage.

As for the second part, it is sad because it's basically true. Part of the person you knew has changed and probably significantly.

Even if there weren't brain damage, even if he was in recovery, he has experienced his own hell on the other side from you, that changes someone.

Yes, it's sad.

rescuer

Hi Saltlamp. I am so sorry for what you are going through. Your feelings are completely understandable and natural. Courage.
I am sorry for your friend too. I hope he can turn it around.

NYCDoglvr

My heart goes out to you, it must be terribly painful.

If you think you can "help" him by being there for him, you can't. Speaking as a recovering alcoholic (27 years), I will say active alcoholics take hostages, not friends. Allowing yourself to be used like this doesn't help him, it only hurts you. There is nothing anyone can say or do that will affect an alcoholic's drinking. It's strictly an inside job, the alcoholic has to be willing to go to any lengths to stay sober and that comes from within.

Alanon can be an enormous support in a situation like this. I had a codependent relationship and the program taught me to deal with my own issues and question my motives.

Big hug!

FallenAngelina

I must sadly concur.

SmallButMighty

Saltlamp, would you consider erecting a boundary along the lines of, "I will not engage with him when he has been drinking" (?)

Trying to reason with a drunk person is an exercise in futility. Even just listening to a drunk can be exhausting... and doesn't "help" either party.

If you choose to not engage when he is drunk, do be ready for some erratic behavior. When I made this choice with my AXH it really threw him for a loop. It drastically changed the dynamic between us and he was at a loss. He bounced all different sorts of moods and language off those boundary "walls" trying to get reactions from me and have us get back to the status quo. Me having that boundary never helped my AXH change his life, but it certainly improved mine.

pdm22

saltlamp- I can relate to your situation as well. Can you say a little more about the sense of entitlement, and about how you find yourself “acting like a Codie” from time to time? Do you feel like codependency has been an issue for you in the past (and by codependency, I’m going by the definition that one person is dependent on a substance or activity, there is in an unequal/ unbalanced distribution of power, the codependent needs to feel needed, and has underlying issues of enmeshment, fears of abandonment, attachment problems, low self esteem, the need for control..), and he is triggering this a little bit, or it’s more of an issue around boundaries? I agree being in a relationship with someone or having someone in your family doesn’t automatically equal codependency, just curious about your history and if maybe he’s triggering something in you (not sure of that would be personal or private, but just mentioning that for or you- it may or may not be relevant).

I can tell you for me, I have a friend who is like this, and I found myself having some really old stuff triggered, and despite my best efforts, I finally had to take distance from him. A *huge* step back.

At first, I was finding myself doing some of the “he’s acting like this because he has a disease, he’s depressed, he’s impaired (which may all be reasons, but not an excuse to be mean to someone- which he can be- and I’ve had other people in my life with these issues who didn’t act like this, and my own issues, so I think it’s partially his character/ nature) and I catch myself letting him treat me badly, when I wouldn’t anyone else- I rephrase it for myself- “he’s treating me this way because he *can*”, and that usually snaps me out of it. . My general rule of thumb for myself, and what I’m doing with him, is if he does something that bothers me/ a boundary of mine was crossed, I will say something once, and if the he keeps doing it, I adjust accordingly from my end. Limited contact is what I’d say I’m doing now, and it seems to be working.

The distance has really helped me to put the focus back on me and my own stuff that was being triggered. And being there for him wasn’t helping his situation anyways, not really. I don’t know if he’ll ever find recovery, but I know friendship and love shouldn’t be that painful. Best to just get out of his way, you know?

Good luck, I hear you about how it feels like you’re dealing with a different person, because you are. It really is heartbreaking.

FallenAngelina

Nobody but you can know whether you should have contact, but I just want to point out that choosing no contact feels like "giving up hope" only to a codependent thinker. A heathy thinker knows that every person is responsible for himself and choosing no contact often just means choosing no to engage in relationships that are not a positive influence. Heathy thinkers don't hang on to unhealthy situations. No hope is ever lost unless the alcoholic loses hope. The people who love the alcoholic have absolutely nothing to do with whether hope for recovery is lost - it is completely the alcoholic's choice. Getting caught up in thinking that it's your responsibility to hold out hope for recovery for this friend, that is codependent thinking. A healthier option is to allow your friend the dignity of being an adult and making his own choices.

Saltlamp

Thanks everyone for their replies. (I don't know how to say "thank you" on individual posts.) Trailmix, Rescuer, and PDM, thanks especially for the validation of my sad feelings. I tried to tell someone I'm close with about that feeling of loss and they really didn't get it, so that validation really matters to me. For those who had more critical feedback, thank you for sharing your points of view.

I suppose I should clarify that I don't have difficulty disengaging when he's drunk, it's just the in-between times, the times he seems "ready" to accept the help he needs to be back on track... it's just that he's been there-and-back so many times that I'm having trouble figuring out my boundaries during those in between times. I didn't mind dropping everything to take him to the hospital, visiting, bringing him whatever he needed, etc., the same way I wouldn't have minded for a friend with diabetes or whatever... to me that was showing support of his recovery and not enabling, but this repetition is making me see that the starting-to-get-better-then-quitting-getting-better-then-starting-then-quitting has just become a new part of his addiction's rhythm. So I'm struggling to find a balance of being there for him when/if he really is on the road to recovery but also not being blind to the fact these in between times are now just part of the merry-go-round. Does that make sense?

PDM: As for the "acting like a codie" statement, a lot of that was in the beginning of his relapse when I didn't really "get" how some actions were pointless... things like dumping out his liquor- I don't even know where I got that from, maybe movies??? Dumb stuff like that. Then bigger stuff, just engaging way too much when he was drunk and spending way too much time trying to help him feel better, compromising some of my own values/skipping things that were important-ish to me to "be there" for him and then him literally not even remembering that I was with him for 3 hours or whatever... but I think I've been learning a lot, and quickly, and have set better boundaries when he is actively using.

And, of course, I have my own "stuff" ... as we all do. Probably the biggest one that I think plays a role is that I had some significant mental health struggles when I was younger caused by complicated grief. I won't go into details but more or less, the sudden-and-complicated-death-of-live-in-boyfriend-who-wasn't-a-bad-guy-but-wasn't-a-great-guy-either (young 20s, "bad boy"ish type, relationship wouldn't have lasted, but it also was not crazy/abusive/addicted or anything like that) triggered a complex grieving reaction that all but one friend just couldn't understand. I didn't have a good relationship with my family or other support people, and the constant support of that friend, even when I was totally unpredictable, completely ungrateful, or sometimes outright bitchy was what got me through, likely literally saving my life and definitely making me stay connected to "myself." I recovered from the trauma (yayyy therapy!) and have moved on to have a really beautiful life and I have a lot of gratitude for my friend- whom now isn't subject to 2 AM weepy phone calls... or helping me clean rotting meat out of my freezer because I decided not to pay my electric bill for four months, then drive to California for six weeks, returning to no power and epic grossness. (Maggots. There were maggots.) All that to say I really sucked because I was grieving hard, everyone else was like "whoa, way too much for me, Saltlamp" but my one friend stuck by my side and never gave up on me. She remembered who I was when I couldn't remember who I was. Today I'm an even better person than I was before my epic grieving experience.

So part of my belief system is that I am to "pay it forward". I recognize that some of that belief system paves the way for codependent attitudes and that's something I have to guard against- but overall, I want to be that person for others, the person who sees the good and never gives up.

BUT I also don't want to be an enabler, of course. So, it's tricky. Addiction is a different beast than grieving, of course. But I know my friend is a good person. I also know that science shows social support is one of the most important tools that a person in early recovery can have to help them meet success. I won't agree that "only" codependent thinkers would equate no-contact with giving up: perhaps it's a matter of semantics but I don't think it's codependent to want to make sure my friend has positive social support available if he ever does truly decide to go into recovery.

Feel free to call me out on any of that if you think any of that is insanity, but there's a little more colour and detail...

Thanks again. It helps to put my experience into a narrative for people who might understand what the f I'm talking about.

trailmix

It absolutely makes sense and you are just on the addiction merry-go-round, you are not imagining that. Alcohol is running your life (where he is involved).

Maybe one way to look at it is, he relapsed 7 months ago. In your 7 months of running around after him bringing him a toothbrush to sober living (or wherever he might be) - has anything changed? I'm going to guess absolutely nothing.

The difference between this and your grieving is over the period of time your friend supported you, you were making progress, working through your troubles, you were not on a treadmill. Now that might have taken 2 months or 2 years, doesn't matter, you were not 'stuck', you were working your way forward.

He's just not, he doesn't want to get sober right now. Nothing you say or do will change that. You didn't Cause it, can't Control and can't Cure it.

You might want to have a look at some of the threads in our "stickies" section at the top of the forum, lots of wisdom there and knowledge is power.

A good place to start is here:

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...c-reading.html (Classic Reading)

In particular this thread:

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...-reposted.html (10 Ways to Tell When an Addict or Alcoholic is Full of ****, reposted)

Saltlamp

pdm22

“I suppose I should clarify that I don't have difficulty disengaging when he's drunk, it's just the in-between times, the times he seems "ready" to accept the help he needs to be back on track... it's just that he's been there-and-back so many times that I'm having trouble figuring out my boundaries during those in between times. I didn't mind dropping everything to take him to the hospital, visiting, bringing him whatever he needed, etc., the same way I wouldn't have minded for a friend with diabetes or whatever... to me that was showing support of his recovery and not enabling, but this repetition is making me see that the starting-to-get-better-then-quitting-getting-better-then-starting-then-quitting has just become a new part of his addiction's rhythm. So I'm struggling to find a balance of being there for him when/if he really is on the road to recovery but also not being blind to the fact these in between times are now just part of the merry-go-round. Does that make sense?”

So I don’t know if this helps you at all, but for me, I had to reframe the “it’s an illness like diabetes” type analogies that are out there, way back in the day when I was dealing with a sibling’s addiction stuff, and it’s helped me with other people as well. In that, a diabetic has an issue with/ shortage of insulin- a person who is addicted does not have a shortage of alcohol, heroin, benzos- whatever the addiction may be. I know that analogy/ the disease model is supposed to be one to be more understanding of someone who is struggling with addictions, but for someone who may be struggling with boundaries, I’m not sure if it helps or hinders?

But if you find it helpful to look at it that way, maybe think of someone going into diabetic shock or having severe symptoms, you’d call for an ambulance, and let medical professionals who were equipped to handle the situation deal with it, right? In the same way, I believe that others who are also in recovery (peer support/ AA) or professionals, are better equipped to handle the addiction type issues. Only you can decide what’s best for you and your friendship, but it sounds like the merry go round you are describing is very similar to the roller coaster ride many people describe they are on, when in a relationship like this? In my opinion, when you start feeling like that, it’s always a good idea to step back and give yourself some space. And hopefully get some clarity.

trailmix

Well stated pdm.

Yes saltlamp, if you were dealing with someone with schizophrenia or someone who is bi-polar and they were refusing medication, that's probably about as close of a comparison as you can get.

dandylion

Saltlamp…..a couple of ideas for you to chew on....
As a member of the First Responder community....you, surely, are familiar with Triage....
You have a limited amount of your own precious personal resources...and, it is throwing away your own resources if they are not given with great discression….
Aclsoutely, social support is one of the most healing factors...but, you are not the best source of this for him, when it comes to addictions....except, of course, to not be obstructive, in any way. Best to get out of his way. Relying on you, in a dependent kind of way, is actually cobbling him,,,,as it can keep him from getting help from better sources (you are too enmeshed with his issues to be as objective as you need to be)….
In his recovery, he should be calling his sponsor...and, participating in the social support of fellow alcoholics, in AA. Nobody can relate to a drunk like another drunk...lol...
He also has..or should have a therapist and doctor for his specific individual issues.....
He needs to learn to face life on life's terms...as an independent person....
One good rule of thumb...to avoid enabling...is to never do, for someone, what a mother would do....
Mature, independent people make the most healthy friends.....

Saltlamp

PDM: (Sorry in advance if this sounds argumentative in text form: truly, my response here is just a discussion piece and not an argument of what you're saying) See, me, I quite like the diabetes comparison: well, type II diabetes anyway. Usually caused by choices the diabetic has made throughout their lives (or to an extent choices made for them in childhood), symptoms can usually be managed with changes to lifestyle (losing weight, managing diet, physical activity, regular monitoring), etc... so in many ways I think it's a lot like alcoholism. Some type II diabetics lose weight, eat healthfully, exercise and see their doctors, and some just keep on drinking soda, eating fast food, watching TV as a hobby, etc. etc. etc. With lifestyle adjustments and careful monitoring, a type II diabetic can go into remission the same way an alcoholic can be in recovery... or a diabetic can die refusing to alter their lifestyle and choices. But, TrailMix- for sure, the schizophrenia or bipolar comparisons are spot on, too. I just like the diabetes analogy because we don't tend to stigmatize physical health conditions as a society as much as we do mental health conditions. What do you do with a schizophrenic who'll take their medication for a week, decide they don't need it and fall off the rails?

And like I'd call an ambulance for a diabetic in shock, I have indeed called for an ambulance for my friend. I try to let his treatment team deal with the medical and mental health side of things- even the parts I am trained on- but I still want to be his friend. When sober for a length of time, he was a great person and he wasn't white-knuckling it as far as I could tell: really invested in recovery. I know he's a worthwhile and valuable person.

I'm resistant to the idea that only other addicts could possibly provide social support for an addicted person and that friends who aren't addicts can't possibly be a support. I'll chew on it some more but that doesn't seem to vibe with the research I've been exposed to or my own general sense of the situation. But perhaps I need a bit of time to chew on Dandylion's idea that by the very act of being his friend I am hindering his recovery: my initial reaction to this is to be insulted so let me think on that some more once the defensiveness wears out. Indeed, he does have family, his sponsor, his therapists and treatment team, and other friends. I'm just one more friend- his closest friend, perhaps, but not the only person in his life and, in my belief, not someone standing in they way of him getting help from better sources. Au contraire, my self perception is someone madly supportive of him getting help that I know I can't provide. But I do feel a bit defensive about that so I'll chew on what you said when I'm not feeling defensive about the comment.

Thanks all for the feedback and thinking pieces. And PDM you're totally right that I need a bit of space to get some clarity: thanks for that. I'm thinking on exactly how I can get it, exactly what I need to get there.

Ultimately it just comes down to just re-assessing what the boundary is now that I recognize the "getting better" part is part of the cycle, not the end of the line. TrailMix, that sticky was really helpful... it will help me clarify what kinds of things I can listen for to sort out "just quacking a I'm-a-gonna-get-better story" from taking steps towards real change.

pdm22

It’s okay saltlamp, if the diabetes analogy helps you and you like it, whatever works for you. I guess for me, in the case of type II, all of those things are true, but you as an individual being friends with someone with the issues you mentioned (overeating, making poor food choices), is also making some poor choices and I personally wouldn’t get involved in that either. And I didn’t mean it in the sense to stigmatize the person, but in the sense that if you are dealing with an adult, they are responsible for their own choices. And I think sometimes people do get caught up in the disease model, start to feel guilty and start over sympathizing, and when you are dealing with someone in the throes of addiction, I’m not sure if that’s necessarily helpful (depends on the person/ individual case, I think).

To me, even in cases like a person going cold turkey off their meds (and I do have a family member who does this constantly, and I do work in human services and know doctors who do this to people too, and it’s a nightmare) you’re going to be dealing with a person in severe drug withdrawal, in which case it’s difficult for friends and family, who are ill equipped to deal with psych med withdrawal, to deal with this kind of a thing as well.

I do have another friend with substance abuse issues, and in her case I’m having an easier time because she doesn’t have the same types of relationship issues as my other friend who I mentioned above, and doesn’t seem to have a mean streak either. My general rule of thumb is do unto others..I know I abhor when people try to get “controlling” (what I perceive as) with me, wouldn’t want someone monitoring me eating or whatever- so I try not to do that with others. My best friend died last year, he struggled with alcoholism too, and we had general type conversations about substance abuse and stuff like that, but I didn’t try to influence his recovery or lack there of or anything like that. So yeah, I think it’s possible to be friends with people who are struggling with addictions, but I think it depends on the people involved and how bad the issues are, how good your own boundaries are, etc.

dandylion

Saltlamp…...Here is a thought....
As we grow up in this culture, we receive messages, from many sources, as to how to behave in relationships, with others....We get the messages through family learning, in the schools, the churches, and our many other social experiences....And, for the most part, they work pretty well, for us....
What we aren't taught is that...these "rules" are intended for healthy relationships,,,that is where they work well.
We are not told that the two areas where these rules get turned all topsy-turvy, is where addictions (any kind) and abusiveness are involved.....
One of the reasons is that in these kinds of relationships...there is not a level playing field...and,there is not the reciprocity that exists in other kinds of healthy relationships.....there is inherent selfishness in these two situations....

Saltlamp...I hope that you understand that my previous comments were to be taken within the context of alcoholism....

I would like to clarify....
I am not saying that the mere fact of being his friend is hindering his recovery. I am suggesting that supporting him in the wrong ways...even if unintentional....can be enabling, and protecting him from the natural consequences of his own actions....which he must take responsibility for...
It is so easy to fall into that trap, for the loved one...For example--when he calls at 2 oclock in the morning, drunk ….he could be told to call and talk to his alcoholism sponsor...or to get to an AA meeting, in the AM...etc.

Also, I am not saying that ONLY other addicts can provide social support for the addict....not, am trying to say that friends who aren't addicts can't be a support.....But, when it comes to their alcoholism Treatment....that the group dynamics of the AA group and community is very, very, powerful....and, there are those who have studied those dynamics who say that this is probably the most therapeutic aspect of this group.
Certainly, other social connections are always an asses to the alcoholic...as with any person...after all, we are very social creatures....But, here, I am talking about alcoholism specific treatment.....when the alcoholic is craving a drink...the AA group is the far better place for him/her to receive the acceptance and reality feedback that they can accept from another alcoholic, better than anyone else.....It is very hard for the loved ones to be as honest and direct and accepting of the alcoholic...because they are naturally, hampered by their own subjectivity.....
Among the best things that a friend can do is to point the alcoholic toward help by those who are prepared to shoulder that...

It is very interesting and informative to study the Fundamentals of Group Dynamics....we humans respond to group dynamics very much....and, often in different ways than we would in a one on one situation.....

Actually...lol...I am not surprised that you feel defensive to my first posting..., in fact, I fully expected you to be quite p****d, about it.....
these are concepts that are not easy or intuitive, for most people, when they first hear them....It took me some time, to understand some of them.....

hopeful4

Just remember that paying it forward does not mean you can save another human being. He has to want help, and be willing to actively work on recovery, every day, forever. It's a huge commitment that not many can make.

Keep taking good care of you!

I am glad you are here.

atalose

That’s because that is what you have taught him.

Just like you have taught him

And you have to ask yourself, how has that worked out for you so far with all his days, weeks he’s managed to not drink?

As hard as it is to hear, your friendship, you answering every phone at 2am has not had the impact on his life you were/are hoping it would.

Often when we use the word “friend”………..what they actually see is just a resource. A ride, food, money, someone to fetch this or go get them that. Someone willing to listen to their drunk babble in the middle of the night.

Maybe the boundary you need to establish for yourself and your own sanity is to not answer the phone in the middle of the night from someone you already know is drunk and has nothing new to say. Maybe instead of dropping everything for him at his whim, instead tell him you can’t do x. y or z until after work or the weekend or when it is most convenient for you NOT when it is convenient for him. If it’s a true emergency and he needs to go to the hospital, well, that is what ambulances are for.

Sometimes we have to acknowledge and accept that we are no longer working on a healthy relationship but rather a very long goodbye.

Saltlamp

Sigh... I've been thinking a lot on this- I think I even lost some sleep last night thinking (never a good sign.)

I do think that I need to throw my hands up and say "SALTLAMP OUT!" and that I have reached the end of the road of possibly helping. *Post-typing edit: ramblyness ahead.*

His mom phoned me last night. (He's been at her place in a different town since he was kicked out of rehab for coming back from his weekend pass with alcohol in his system.) She was whispering so he wouldn't hear her and get upset... anyway, she just wanted to say that everything was going just peachy and all is well and he's on his way to recovery but he's asked that she and I don't talk so I won't hear from her and that's why.

Which is cool and all except I full well know the reason he doesn't want us to talk is that he was pissed off that I advised her last week to call an ambulance. (He came back to live with her after rehab kicked him out, was constantly drunk, then was showing some really disorganized behaviour like walking to the liquor store wearing a sweater instead of pants on his legs... she told me, I told her to call his treatment team for advice, they said to call an ambulance, she told me for whatever reason, I said "yeah, do that if that's what the professionals said to do..." So she called, the paramedics showed up, he refused to go to the hospital and had it "together" enough that they couldn't force him against his will... and then his mom was just like "OK then, come on back here and drink in my basement, seems like a great idea to me")

He calls me that night, not knowing that I know all that went down (from the scary-crazy behaviour to the ambulance and everything in between), says he's doing "great" ... I let him continue on this train of thought for about 30 seconds before being like "dude....... I know you're not doing great...."

When he figures out it was me who validated the medical professional's advice to call an ambulance, he of course gets mad at me (I say "of course" because everyone on this forum understands alcoholic insanity) and tells me that he doesn't trust me and our friendship won't last if I talk to his mother... I say that if he doesn't trust me that's his prerogative, but I've never been anything but transparent, and called him on his ********, telling him it seems to me that he just wants to be able to lie to me and lie to his mom and have those be different lies and not have their paths cross, ... which turned into an "apology" followed by a series of "explanations" for his crazy behaviour.

You see, he wore a sweater instead of pants because his mom washed all his clothes and he didn't know where they were. I'd like to point out this is a man pushing 50. "Mommy washed my clothes and I didn't know where they went so I haaaad to wear a sweater instead of pants."

That's some WTF crazy right there.

So, this phone call from her was a wee bit of a wake up... I kinda clicked into "yup, he's still trying to control everything. He says he's going back to rehab but like that sticky said, it's a huge red flag that he's trying to do it all on his terms- still looking at other rehab centers (it's not the center, it's you. You don't need a new treatment program, you need to go through one), still adopting a rather cavalier attitude towards his relapse, refusing to go to medically supervised detox despite his history of severe withdrawl seizures because he's more comfortable at his mom's place (and this crazy refusal 100% condoned by mommy dearest.)" ...

(Sorry for my sarcastic words, everyone in this scenario including his mom are beautiful human beings but now I've kinda just morphed into pouring out my frustrations in text form...)

So, I'm like, you know what? I can't say "I believe in you" and mean it. I don't believe that you're just on the verge of breaking through. I don't think you're ready for help.

And that's not a helpful place for a friend to be.

So it's time to duck out.

Who wants to give me some advice on the hows?

Should I tell him my reasons in a kind way? For example, write him a letter that he could use in therapy if he so chose?

Should I just pull back with no real explanation?

Should I tell him my reasons in a phone call? (He's not in my town right now.)

Should I give him a timeframe? (E.G. "I don't think I can give you the kind of support you need right now but when you come back to our town after rehab if you're sober and there's anything I can do to support you I'm here for you?")

I don't know what to do so am open to all sorts of different perspectives.

Also it makes me feel guilty, sad, foolish and defeated. But it's clearly what needs to be done. I'm just a piece of his well-oiled manipulation machine now. I'd like to hope it won't always be that way.